mdlighting
Member
This is the fire company 42 ran in PG County 5600 blk of woodland dr in Oxon hill the man in the picture lit his house on fire then climbed on the roof and was throwing flammable liquid on firefighters as they approached
PG fire
- Thread starter mdlighting
- Start date
twodogs603
Member
mdlighting
Member
Ok let me ask you guys. I'm a security police officer and I know if confronted with serious bodily harm and it death, deadly force is justified. Now in this instance this gentleman(scum bag) was throwing flammable liquid on firefights there for confronting them with serious bodily harm and or death so would they have been justified to spray him with the hose possibly knocking him off the roof? Being a volunteer fire Sargent I have to separate my full time job and my volunteer but in this instance I don't think I would be able to.
twodogs603
Member
mdlighting
Member
Yes I get that but my point was is it justifiable to do that in my opinion yes it is but I am also skewed by my law enforcement training. I was interested in what just regular firefighters think in this case but remember if its wrong you are liable criminally and civilly.
twodogs603
Member
If someone is endangering my life, its whoop ass time-whether its a bullet or a deck gun. When it comes down to him or me going home tonight, Im going home. Dont care about him.
pdk9
Member
mdlighting said:
Personally, my response would be one of the following:
A) if i just pulled up and law enforcement was already on scene or I knew that they were close to arrival, I would stand back and wait for them to handle (scene safety). Another possible consideration is what stage the fire is in; if it's fully involved to the point that there's extremely low chance for any survivors inside, then I doubt anybody would take such a high risk with their crew and try to initiate an offensive attack with psycho boy running around. On the other hand, if the house wasn't fully involved/was in an early-mid stage of growth and I saw him throwing flammable liquids upon my crew's arrival, I personally wouldn't jeopardize their lives and order them to approach the building.
B) if my crew didn't initially see the guy and approached the house, only for him to "ambush" us, I would spray him with a handline. A deck gun is a bit much (even though the jack@$$ deserves that and a lot more) but it goes with the whole self defense thing IMO...if taken to court, I'd argue that I felt that my life and the life of my crew was in immediate danger and that the handline was my only immediate means of defense, whereas a deck gun is located farther away from the house and I'd imagine that I'd have a harder time proving immediate danger and justifiable/self defense from that distance (in this particular instance). I would pray, however, that the police IC ordered me to spray him with a deck gun, in which case I was following an order from LE.
I'm sure there'll be a bunch of different opinions, but I personally wouldn't confront the suspect offensively; standing back and waiting until the scene is secured by LE is something that I wouldn't be brought to court for, but "offensively" going after the suspect with handlines or deck guns is something that I could possibly get in trouble with down the road
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The scene is unsafe with this nut on the roof. Why even approach the house and get close enough for him to throw it at you? All you would have to do is wait for him to pass out from smoke inhalation, and with the conditions in the video that wouldn't take long. I'm not a firefighter but I imagine that you could at least keep the fire somewhat contained with hand lines or the deck gun from a safe distance.
justavillain
Member
acala91 said:
But the first in engine company would attempt to ladder the side of the home to get him to safety. Since he is walking around it would be easy to do while the eo flakes a pre-connect off to allow the officer/back seater(s) get the ladder out.
But they also wouldn't know he was going to dump fluids on them. At that point just go defensive and use hand lines.
Zodiac
Member
A good friend of mine did security for 15 years, and when i told him about this, his response was "we have pepper ball ammo for our paintball guns, why not open up on him with that lol. Its a nonlethal round, and at worst case he would fall off the roof, and at very least he would have a few welts and a better understanding of how reality is."
I agree wholeheartedly
:dielaugh:
I agree wholeheartedly
:dielaugh:
fireman658
Member
Rofocowboy84
Member
If you can back off, you do so. Otherwise, you were just initiating your attack with deck gun ops to put a quick knockdown on the fire... if he gets in the stream, such is life.
PJD642
New Member
Rofocowboy84 said:
Maybe THIS is why we had a thread on the old site about how there should be rifles on every fire truck?
From an LE perspective, I think you'd be perfectly justified in hitting him with a hose line or a deck gun in an effort to knock him down (or better yet completely off the roof). Any injuries he might sustain from that would be outweighed by the necessity to A) defend yourself and your fellow hosers, and B) prevent him from further endangering himself. Easy case to make for him being suicidal, and you took what action was necessary to prevent him from harming himself while not endangering yourself.
I agree and disagree with all in some fashion, but something I live by being in the fire service for 20 years and military , for not as long, ........" I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6".
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ff168577
Member
In my neck of the woods (or on the other side of the river from it at least) PG means Prince George's County. Plenty of worse stuff there than naked men climbing on fire trucks.
Rofocowboy84
Member
nerdly_dood said:
Fairly certain that's what it means in MD too...and seeing as how they're DC metro, they're probably not as backwoods as you may think...
mdlighting
Member
PG county is not backwoods at all well maybe Baden but nowhere else we all deal with shootings, stabings, assaults, fights with County Police, on more than 1 occasion I wish I had pepper spray or a baton in my fire gear thankfully the police were there. Violence and stupidity are everywhere in this country but it seems to be just skittle worse in PG county than anywhere else in the state except for Baltimore city but I mean really who didn't know that right
MESDA6
Member
The 2.5 inch line is the original Taser for firemen. Old school....sometimes newer isn't better.
Many years ago when I was riding an ambulance, the term "keep that oxygen handy," was code for, "if the patient goes ape@#$%, grab that steel oxygen bottle and hit him with it."
Somehow, watching this video you just know that the guy is going to end up filing a lawsuit against someone and getting a payday because they were trying to protect him. Not much you can do about it in this day and age, except to do your job to the best of your ability and let the lawyers deal with it.
Many years ago when I was riding an ambulance, the term "keep that oxygen handy," was code for, "if the patient goes ape@#$%, grab that steel oxygen bottle and hit him with it."
Somehow, watching this video you just know that the guy is going to end up filing a lawsuit against someone and getting a payday because they were trying to protect him. Not much you can do about it in this day and age, except to do your job to the best of your ability and let the lawyers deal with it.
It is all in how you write it up: "gently sprayed person with roof mounted fire engine hose; immediately upon water contact, subject quickly relocated to a safe distance behind the house.
MESDA6 said:Many years ago when I was riding an ambulance, the term "keep that oxygen handy," was code for, "if the patient goes ape@#$%, grab that steel oxygen bottle and hit him with it."
That's also known as oxygen therapy.
mdlighting
Member
I've only used oxygen therapy once on a physic patient that tried to choke me. Once oxygen was "administered" he was fine just needed an ice pack lol. That was an interesting report to write
vonirkinshtine
Member
mdlighting said:
"Administered O2 to PT at a flow rate of 10lbs instantaneously. PT responded to treatment quickly."