Police chase Fire Fighter responding to station for a call

[CodeMan]

Interesting videos, and pov causing a fatality.


In the police defence, they had complaints of a vehicle impersonating on this one.

We all see the POV responces all over you tube, but we dont see the other side of the coin..


Comments, additional media welcomed. opcorn:

 

[mm2k5]

I get the point of following the laws and being safe on the road, so I'm not going to start that argument... However, if I'm responding say..a structure fire..I'll be damned if I'm going to pull over for a cop going to the same scene. They can either pass me, or bitch at me at the fire. :twocents:

 

[MEVS06]

I've followed Vollys on their way to a scene or station and get the LPs. I also make sure they are actually with the FD and not some wannabe. I won't stop them unless they are doing crazy sh!t on the road, that's another story if they are being carless. Most times they get a slap on the hand in front of the chief and they apologize. I make sure to stress to them to be careful because we need them to get the the call safely, just like we all go home the same way we came in at the end of the day!

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Several years old

 

[Mrbaxter]

Interesting show of "professionalism" by the EMT/Medic. I'm all for getting to an emergency quickly, but speeding through a work zone isn't cool at all. Each one of us knows what its like operating on a roadway or highway, so we of all people should know better than to go ripping past people standing exposed on the road.

 

[CodeMan]

Again its a look at other side of the coin, things we don't see a lot of but sadly do happen.


I thank you again for your comments, if you have other related media please share it..

 

[HILO]

I won't stop them unless they are doing crazy sh!t on the road, that's another story if they are being carless.

Do tell us the other story about what happens when you stop someone for being carless! :dielaugh:


:razz:

 

[MEVS06]

Do tell us the other story about what happens when you stop someone for being carless! :dielaugh:


:razz:

Simple, it doesn't end well....

 

[Station 3]

im a volley firefighter and im a police officer. I have been pulled over for going code 3 in my POV to a roll over before. the sheriff just wanted to know if I was real or not which is no big deal the whole thing took around 1 min she walked up said who are you with I told her she said ok and she walked away I think she had been dispatched to the same call also. I have also been on the other side and pulled over a volley firefighter once who was just using a dash light and nothing else. I pulled him over and he told me he was going to a call in the next town over I then let him go once I observed his department credentials whole thing took maybe 2 min.


Now if you don't pull over for me if I light you up going to a call you will be handcuffed and booked just like the average criminal let the district attorney drop the charges later I did my part you can bitch and complain all you want in the end you just thought you were above the law and more than likely wanted to have a story to tell your buddies about how cool you are not pulling over for the police... which I have over heard many firefighters brag about before.

 

[okc_f150]

When I was a VFF in Texas several years ago our chief told us that cops couldn't pull us over if we were responding. Something about "interfering with the duties of a fireman" and that it was illegal for them to do so. Was he full of it or is that a legit thing?

 

[pdk9]

When I was a vollie, I knew a few people that got pulled over by the police while responding with the courtesy blue lights activated. One of them was another captain in my department that got unlucky & happened to drive right past the one cop in our town that hates FFs while responding to an unresponsive pt. The other few times some young, new brats decided to authorize themselves to install airhorns on their POVs, prank & pull over their high school classmates using their lights, run red/blue/clear (this was before red/blue was allowed to the rear of EVs), or drove aggressively & ran people off the road to get them to yield. There's always a handful to make the rest of us look bad, but IMO most vollies adhere to the V&T laws or drive reasonably.


As for Hatzolah, I just dislike how they operate and think that they probably deserve a lot of what comes their way, esp the ones that have wannabe secret service black Tahoes/Suburbans with red/blue on almost the entire perimeter & top it off with Grover horns.


As for the fatality, unfortunately it doesn't surprise me that he was a 20 YO vollie. Too many young drivers lack enough driving experience & the maturity to make some crucial decisions while the adrenaline is pumping, so way too often they end up hurting themselves or others. Personally, I think that more VAS & fire companies need to have minimum requirements before their new members can have courtesy lights or code 3 privileges on POVs, apparatus privileges, etc. About 1/3 of all FF injuries/LODDs are a result of MVAs responding to/from calls; we put so much emphasis on training on things like FAST/RIT, technical rescue, extrication, & other special ops skills (that we don't necessarily use too often), yet we don't devote much time or training to basics/everyday skills like driving

 

[HILO]

When I was a VFF in Texas several years ago our chief told us that cops couldn't pull us over if we were responding. Something about "interfering with the duties of a fireman" and that it was illegal for them to do so. Was he full of it or is that a legit thing?

That Chief is full of it. There are still rules and laws within the transportation code that even an emergency vehicle has to follow. A Texas LEO is obligated to enforce transportation code, as well as protect the safety of the public. If a VFF, or even a paid FF in a marked agency owned vehicle, operating their EV in a dangerous maner, they can and shall be subject to a traffic stop, and are still required, by law, to stop for a LE vehicle. This also applies to LE vehicles. If a city LEO observes a marked DPS car being operated in a dangerous manner, the city LEO can conduct a traffic stop on the DPS vehicle. I have heard of DPS doing traffic stops on county and city LE vehicles.

 

[MEVS06]

That Chief is full of it. There are still rules and laws within the transportation code that even an emergency vehicle has to follow. A Texas LEO is obligated to enforce transportation code, as well as protect the safety of the public. If a VFF, or even a paid FF in a marked agency owned vehicle, operating their EV in a dangerous maner, they can and shall be subject to a traffic stop, and are still required, by law, to stop for a LE vehicle.

This is why I had trouble with the VFD at times, I was following them to a fire call to make sure no one would eff with them and they would start pulling over until I killed my front warning and told them on the radio I was following them.... lol

 

[CodeMan]

IMHO~


It seems theres a very fine line reguarding POV's responding Code, state to state. I fully understand the NEED to get to the station ASAP to load up the truck and go. (been there done that/even rode tail board) But some Not All have videos posted on youtube showing them breaking all sorts of traffic laws. If a Volly POV is concidered an emergency vehicle is should be insured as such, (security vehicles shouldnt be running code to anything on public streets, so not really going there) I know here typically the volly could get away with 5-10mph over the posted when responding back in the day. And POVs should be following all legal state traffic laws to a T as it is a POV since many states allow courtesy lights and watching the videos posted makes some cringe as we see they open their dept and them selves up to all kinds of legal issues. Here we couldn't use the red lights till you were in the city limits and no sirens period, as sirens are for emergency vehicles only. if cought outside the city limits running the red beacon they would pull your permit. Present day most Fire Depts. that have volly's just work the shift with the paid guys and spend the night at the station.

 

[AllStrobedUp]

From time to time here you will see security running code, Mostly for K-9 Requests we have have fully certified dogs and handlers, as well as a few other company's, we use something similar to a tow rotation if the agency's K-9's are tied up on other calls or off. but that about the only reason I see it personally necessary. Or the supervisor going to said K-9 call.

 

[Quentin]

We have things called radios..... If we think we are getting pulled over radio it to dispatch to talk to LE.


But then again never had any problems here.... knock on wood.

 

[Rhinojoe]

Now if you don't pull over for me if I light you up going to a call you will be handcuffed and booked just like the average criminal let the district attorney drop the charges later I did my part you can bitch and complain all you want in the end you just thought you were above the law and more than likely wanted to have a story to tell your buddies about how cool you are not pulling over for the police... which I have over heard many firefighters brag about before.

I hope you have professional liability insurance because hindering a F/F response that results or leads to further injury or loss, to a 3rd party, could be trouble.


Most of the time incidents like like become "manhood measuring" contests and nothing more.


Here's an example;


Chula Vista firefighter handcuffed by CHP officer says he was 'humiliated' inside cruiser - 10News.com KGTV ABC10 San Diego


RJ

 

[mfpd465]

well the first one is funny cuz the cop says Challenger, the car is clearly a Charger.....


Second Holts Summit is retarded, as a prior volunteer firefighter in the State of Missouri, and a step dad whose been a cop in Missouri for 20+ years, the State law is pretty clear in identifying FF POVs as emergency vehicles once they have initiated their emergency equipment. You can also be written a ticket for not yielding to e FF POV in Missouri as they are considered emergency vehicles at that point in time. Now I can confirm this as the Fire Dept I was on at the time had Insurance that covered FF POVs once we turned on our emergency equipment. If we got called my vehicle became a FD vehicle. Holts Summit was trying to twist it to make themselves seem right.


307.175. Motor vehicles and equipment which are operated by any member of an organized fire department, ambulance association, or rescue squad, whether paid or volunteer, may be operated on streets and highways in this state as an emergency vehicle under the provisions of section 304.022 while responding to a fire call or ambulance call or at the scene of a fire call or ambulance call and while using or sounding a warning siren and using or displaying thereon fixed, flashing or rotating blue lights, but sirens and blue lights shall be used only in bona fide emergencies. Permits for the operation of such vehicles equipped with sirens or blue lights shall be in writing and shall be issued and may be revoked by the chief of an organized fire department, organized ambulance association, or rescue squad and no person shall use or display a siren or blue lights on a motor vehicle, fire, ambulance, or rescue equipment without a valid permit authorizing the use. A** permit to use a siren or lights as heretofore set out does not relieve the operator of the vehicle so equipped with complying with all other traffic laws and regulations. Violation of this section constitutes a class A misdemeanor.


RSMO is the law that states you will yield or slow down for any emergency vehicle, including those signified above.

 

[Surgicalcric]

Every public safety branch has its own 10%-ers. And from time to time asshats like the one noted by the OP costs other professionals.

Now if you don't pull over for me if I light you up going to a call you will be handcuffed and booked just like the average criminal let the district attorney drop the charges later I did my part you can bitch and complain all you want in the end you just thought you were above the law and more than likely wanted to have a story to tell your buddies about how cool you are not pulling over for the police... which I have over heard many firefighters brag about before.

Your attitude, if in fact it is more than boasting could cost someone their life one day STA-3.


As for your perception of stories, the same could be stated inversely; stories like the ones where complex laden (small dick, small stature, bullied as a kid, no self respect/demands it from others, etc) LEOs tell the rest of their guys about the FF/EMT who they got to yield to the need to conduct a traffic stop to simply ascertain the validity of a guys credentials just because he could?


Exaggerated complexes such the aforementioned don't die in mere minutes; conversely cardiac muscle and brain tissue does - and if the individual responding is a FF headed to a structure fire with entrapment or paramedic/EMT to a cardiac/respiratory arrest it could be someones life.


Furthermore, let the fact that a vollie paramedic or FF was stopped while responding to an emergency just to satisfy the LEOs curiosity when he could have simply followed the first-responder to the scene, sorting it out after any immediate life threats are dealt with and that those few minutes was the difference between someone living or not and there will be someone going to the unemployment line on Monday, not to mention the civil law suits to follow. After that stuff gets in the paper and/or on the news networks what may have been an otherwise productive career as a LEO would end with him/her not being able to get a job as a mall cop.


Personally speaking, if it was a BS priority two call (automatic alarm, fractured hand, etc) I would pull over to talk about the LEOs need to exercise his "I got the badge" complex, how unhealthy it is and how he should seek help... lol. However if it was a cardiac arrest s/he would just have to do whatever they are going to do on the scene while the family watches them exercise the previously noted complex all the while their family member/friend goes without care. That few minutes of blowing you guys off because you believe they are going to use it as a punch line may in fact be the difference between a casket and a cardiac catheter.


Just some food for thought.

 

[RL1]

I love how all the firefighters (which I was for 8 years, BTW) want to yell that the cops (which I am now) hindering them and being held liable for stopping them on the way to a call, yet forget that cops pull over other cops for the same behavior and that people pose as FF and LE to rape, rob, and murder. When I was a volly, only 4 people in the county were allowed to have lights on their POV, so someone running code would be worth being stopped. Where I live now has no volunteer departments in the county, nor an adjacent county, so I would definitely be stopping someone running lights, as I have before. It turned out to be an officer from a neighboring county in an unmarked heading to a call out. He 100% understanding why he got stopped and was on his way less than 30 seconds after being stopped. Since I put an FYI over the air, he didn't, get stopped by anyone else (at least in my county).

 

[SomeBloke]

I feel my former-department had a good work ethic regarding LE and VFs.


The Town's FD Chief is a part-time LEO for the town.


We dispatched for BOTH FD and PD, and would broadcast medical calls over the PD frequency too.


Only a select few VFs had any form of emergency equipment on them, and that was limited to lights (clear to front, red to rear, per AL laws)


There's a great relationship between the PD and FD as they share the same location and often socialise with BBQs at the FD.


The FD runs a rota of who works the Rescue truck throughout the week, so if someone f**ks up we know who it was and where they were going.


And finally, if I'm not mistaken, new VFs are only allowed to travel to scenes/the FD after a certain period of time has elapsed from their induction. (With NO emergency equipment, and driving as a normal person would)


We of course had the benefit of being a small town, but it did cut down on a lot of potential issues

 

[AllStrobedUp]

I firmly believe SOP should be to follow if question arises, once nobody's life is in danger address the situation. plain and simple. most vollys will probably think you are following them to the same call.

 

[Surgicalcric]

Isnt saying, "I was a vollie FF" in this context akin to saying "but I have a black friend" when discussing race?

I love how all the firefighters (which I was for 8 years, BTW) want to yell that the cops (which I am now) hindering them and being held liable for stopping them on the way to a call, yet forget that cops pull over other cops for the same behavior and that people pose as FF and LE to rape, rob, and murder...

So someone providing an opposing viewpoint is seen as yelling and forgetful about something that is ever present in the news in some form or fashion... nice.


To address the example you gave, if only 4 persons in your county are authorized emergency lighting, you pulling over someone you don't know is reasonable - getting to know the 4 would be a reasonable endeavor as well. However I volunteered in a county where 29 of 31 fire stations were all volunteer not to mention the 8 vollie EMS squads. You'd never make your quota in our county if your day was spent chasing volunteers with lights. :crazy: The standard of how/when code is authorized is well established as is the repercussions of veering from the acceptable.


That said, I still stand behind my original assertions that 1) time is a commodity those who need emergency care don't necessarily have an over abundance of (reason for AEDs everywhere) and 2) not everyone who "disses" a LEO's "authoriti" is doing it for malicious reasons, where other public safety personnel are generally involved, and it may prove worth while to find out the reason for not stopping before passing judgement on the guys and "hooking them up." We arent all looking for an [insert Steven Segal voice]"I'm above the law" [/steven segal voice] story nor are we collectively or singularly stating that LEOs keep us from our jobs, only that the one time it happens may be the one time it should have waited to the scene.


At the end of the day it all comes down to personal experiences. I have never been pulled but know most in the Sheriff's office and at the same time I am sure you guys have seen plenty of silly shit go on with FF/EMTs and other LEOs.


Great thing about America we all get to form and maintain our own opinions, for now at least.

 

[thekameleon]

Granted I live in a community of about 10000. We have 25 POCs and around 12 LEOs, I had been on the department for 9 years and I recently just rejoined after moving back from Seattle. Like it was before and has been like today. When I see some of the LEOs, we chat and talk but 90% of the time they ask me what I am driving.


As a rule of thumb, we don't use our lights outside of town limits, not to say it never has happened though. However, if a LEO would I pull over... f the call was in the same direction as I was going, I don't think right away (The fire station is not always on the way to a call). I would assume they were heading to the same call as I am. If the LEO wanted my attention, they have a PA ability and could tell me to pull over then I would. Would precious time to save a life or property be lost, yes. However, I followed the law and it would be up to some attorney to determine negligence of the myself, fire department or LEO. Not much we can do about it. I would just hope LEO would use common sense and "get to know us".

 

[HILO]

Granted I live in a community of about 10000. We have 25 POCs and around 12 LEOs, I had been on the department for 9 years and I recently just rejoined after moving back from Seattle. Like it was before and has been like today. When I see some of the LEOs, we chat and talk but 90% of the time they ask me what I am driving.

As a rule of thumb, we don't use our lights outside of town limits, not to say it never has happened though. However, if a LEO would I pull over... f the call was in the same direction as I was going, I don't think right away (The fire station is not always on the way to a call). I would assume they were heading to the same call as I am. If the LEO wanted my attention, they have a PA ability and could tell me to pull over then I would. Would precious time to save a life or property be lost, yes. However, I followed the law and it would be up to some attorney to determine negligence of the myself, fire department or LEO. Not much we can do about it. I would just hope LEO would use common sense and "get to know us".

Illinois being a courtesy light state, if a LEO came up on you with lights/siren on, in the same direction as the call, you would still have to yield ROW to the LE vehicle. If he passes you, your good, if he follows you to the curb, then you know you have the LEO's attention. So why would a LEO have to use the PA to inform a motorist (in your case, a VFF) to pull over?

 

[ozzyy1]

That is exactly true. The county I live in tones all calls out o the fire frequency and sheriff's frequency. We also can talk on the same frequency.


There have been a few incidents with a neighboring district driving too fast and disregarding traffic laws. Usually the LEOs follow them to a scene and sort thw problem out after the fire/emergency is handled. It usually ends with a very firm scolding and a ticket. But most all of the deputies are volunteer firefighters as well so they see both sides of the scenario.

 

[thekameleon]

Illinois being a courtesy light state, if a LEO came up on you with lights/siren on, in the same direction as the call, you would still have to yield ROW to the LE vehicle. If he passes you, your good, if he follows you to the curb, then you know you have the LEO's attention. So why would a LEO have to use the PA to inform a motorist (in your case, a VFF) to pull over?

You are correct, yet I have been yelled at by the LEO for slowing them down as I was trying to safely pull over. In the end and the point I am trying to make is we are all on the same side and it wouldn't hurt to stop with a them vs us attitude that I see to often in the field... Get to know one another.

 

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

wow interesting mindset I am seeing here.


I have 2 things to add, only 1 time when I was an active VFD did I ever see an altercation between someone at my station and an LEO. Now to be honest I did not see the "infraction" take place but the officer did get a public dressing down from his superior while on scene.


2nd, We had a Station Chief "Lenny" who said something similar about responding and not pulling over for LEOs. Myself personally, I'd pull over no need to escalate an encounter. However I could also see the argument on the flip side of impeding a first responder and any legal issues that may arise of it.


Good thing for me, I never was pulled over while running my "courtesy lights"

 

[ozzyy1]

Personally I would pull over just for the fact that I am not in an EV. But if I was in one of our dept. trucks I would slow down but not pull over.


As said above it is very beneficial to know the LEOs in your area and members of other deptartments. Every summer 1 dept. in our county holds a training day followed up by a big cookout. Most of the LEOs who arent vffs still show up and eat. All in all we all are on the same side of serving the public and bettering the communities we live in.

 

[AllStrobedUp]

Personally I would pull over just for the fact that I am not in an EV. But if I was in one of our dept. trucks I would slow down but not pull over.

At what point does a vehicle with lights and sirens(some states) become an emergency vehicle? Not discussing POV or AOV but I think when the lights come on it becomes official use and classified as an emergency vehicle(some state laws and statutes/code may say otherwise)

 

[ozzyy1]

Unfortunately IL is one of those states where vff activating lights on a POV only ask for people to yeild. But as soon as I take off in a Dept. truck peoplr have to yeild.


Currently this is becoming a problem as my (very) rural department is starting a first responder program and we dont have a rescue vehicle nor the budget to buy one. And the guys wanting to do the program live farthest from the station.

 

[CodeMan]

In Florida: Any motor vehicle can be designated as an emergency vehicle by the sheriff or chief of police or fire chief of any city or county in the state. when said vehicle is to be assigned the use of radio frequencies assigned to the said city and is in writing. Otherwise its just a vehicle with lights on it like public works and it doesn't have the city or county police, sheriff or fire dept. radio freqencies in it. Then is just a service vehicle with lights on it. VFF's that have a single red light have a permit assigned by the fire chief, special officers or deputies with a blue light have a permit assigned to them by the sheriff or police chief making their vehicle an emergency vehicle. Typically LE officers povs do not have lights or sirens in them.


The same could be said for most states, if the sheriff, police chief or fire chief says you can have it and its in writing, They have them on their vehicles. If no permission is given they don't have them on their vehicles.


The video of the VFF responding to his station, not the fire scene. It was explained by the police they had reports of someone in a like car impersonating an officer, good reason for not driving an ex-cop car or a car made up to look like a U/C. Once he was able to prove who he was, the issue was handled


you cant argue with your state laws/statutes its there in black and white..

 

[fastbrianman]

Kentucky code allows VFF to run red lights and sirens. I have been a Police officer, Volunteer Firefighter and now a Career firefighter/EMT as well as volunteering in the district I live in.(all volunteer coverage in our county) State law requires us to exercise due regard in our responses. It does not get into limitations or requirements of exercising due regard. Fire Department SOG set limits on responses. I would never go thru a red light without stopping and clearing the intersection.


I am a Firefighter/EMT and I make runs from home in my personal car. My car becomes a state recognized emergency vehicle when I respond, to the firehouse, to the scene depending on staff availability and to peoples houses on medical runs. We operate a first responder program. Ambulances could be 15+ min away in parts of my district. State code sets what is required of lights and siren. I make sure my vehicle exceeds the standard.


I have had Police follow me to the same scene as well as to medical response scenes. I would not stop for them behind me with lights on. Most often they are going to the same place. I also have radio equipment and can communicate with our central dispatch who would be aware of us responding to a scene and if there was an issue on the police side. We have a good reputation with the public and our peers.


Good working relationships make for a safe work environment for all responders.


Remember the Idea that none of us can do our job unless we get there safely. Drive with the public in mind, don't take chance, exercise good judgement and no one should have a problem with what we do. When conflict arises remember that in the heat of the moment is not the time to resolve it. Cool and calm heads will always prevail.


The laws vary so much state to state. I wonder how some can work under such restrictions, it also makes me happy to be able to work with in ours. Be responsible and remember to be safe.

 

[ozzyy1]

I believe we coyld run sirens and be considered EVs if the sheriff would put it in writting. Unfortunately I dont think that will happen. Ideally our first respinder program would utilize povs rather than using one of our oversized brush trucks with limited room.

 

[CodeMan]

I believe we coyld run sirens and be considered EVs if the sheriff would put it in writting. Unfortunately I dont think that will happen. Ideally our first respinder program would utilize povs rather than using one of our oversized brush trucks with limited room.

Back in the day, before the dept went Paid. We were issued a red light permit by the fire chief allowing use in the city limits only, but no sirens! Most had rotating tear drops, hotshots, dashlasers. The permit allowed for one light to the front and one to the rear, se we slapped them on the roof.. and most people yielded the right of way, if the police were unsure of you they would just follow to the station or see you on scene.

 

[J-Rock1944]

Generally speaking, the police and FD have a great relationship. Many of the Police officers are also local Vollies. The only issues that we ever have is one of the younger guys running a light, stop sign, or just speeding. The police will usually set him straight, and the chief will suspend his POV status until he attends an EVOC and proves he can be responsible 3"enough to run code.


(This is in Kentucky, red lights and siren are required by law, with 360 degree coverage.)

 

[thekameleon]

I believe we coyld run sirens and be considered EVs if the sheriff would put it in writting. Unfortunately I dont think that will happen. Ideally our first respinder program would utilize povs rather than using one of our oversized brush trucks with limited room.

I assume you are in Illinois and unfortunately Illinois state law only allows "Fire Chief" povs to be authorized with Red/Clear lights and sirens with written authorization. I know a while back the state did revisit the lighting laws on vehicles. They were debating with allowing sirens and making it a requirement to yield to VFFs, but the siren and yield provision were shot down in the state senate. Instead they made it legal to use high beam wig wags.

 

[jrfive0]

I get the point of following the laws and being safe on the road, so I'm not going to start that argument... However, if I'm responding say..a structure fire..I'll be damned if I'm going to pull over for a cop going to the same scene. They can either pass me, or bitch at me at the fire. :twocents:

uhh more like "arrest you" at the fire.... :haha: :haha: :haha:

 

[ozzyy1]

I assume you are in Illinois and unfortunately Illinois state law only allows "Fire Chief" povs to be authorized with Red/Clear lights and sirens with written authorization. I know a while back the state did revisit the lighting laws on vehicles. They were debating with allowing sirens and making it a requirement to yield to VFFs, but the siren and yield provision were shot down in the state senate. Instead they made it legal to use high beam wig wags.

Yep. Born and raised in IL. State law puts rural departments like mine in a bad position to where we attempt to provide services to our community but lack the funding to purchase up to date equipment.

 

[minig0d]

I believe many of the people who are arguing the legal standpoint of the emergency vehicle status, are missing the part of the law where it say "yes they are authorized emergency vehicles" BUT "yes you have to operate them safely". Which was specified at the end of the law pasted above and is definitely in tx and la laws. I'm sure it's in most states as well. So if you are operating an emergency vehicle carelessly you are subject to enforcement action (as well as civil liability). Just because you are operating a POV or dept vehicle that is considered an EV doesn't give you a right to operate it carelessly or recklessly.


As for the moral aspect or pissing contests, do y'all vffs really believe cops are so bored that they would intentionally pull you over because you were going 2mph above the speed limit? I personally wouldn't do it unless you blew through an intersection with the disregard for public safety, or something of that nature (ex: going through it without slowing and causing or almost causing a major accident in the process because you didn't slow down enough to be prudent).


Y'all must either live in some really rural areas that have no calls for service in days for vffs to get pulled over (if it's true).