THROUGH 5% TINT: Feniex T-6 vs Star/SVP DLX4 - you decide...
- Thread starter minig0d
- Start date
hitman38367
Member
Ok, I have a deal working with the Predators so if the deal goes through, I will take a side by side video with the predators behind the tint as well when I remove them from the grille so you can get a better idea but I can tell you now, the Predators won't be as bright.
hitman38367 said:
nooo no need... I guess I wasn't clear on what I was saying... I can see how much brighter the microman are to that... I just haven't seen any videos that I can recall showing the predators compared to some of the other lights so I'm not sure where their place on the market is (compared to Feniex/Ions/Ghosts/TIR6's etc)... your video shows the comparison just great... I just need to get a reference now on how the Predators compare to some of the other lights...
I think all the manufacturers should just ship me one of their lights and I'll wire them ALL up in the back window simultaneously and we can compare them side by side lol
emtanderson51
Member
The Star DLX series of lights are EXCEPTIONALLY bright. I have seen both in person and the DLX heads are brighter. I believe they are brighter than the ION and XT6 series from Code 3 as well. I sild a 6 head bar to Station 3. He couldn't believe it when he got it. It screwed up the video on my camera. No other light has done that...
bluestinger90
Member
It's probably brighter because all the light is directed forward with little to no off axis.
http://elightbars.org/forums/f33/star-warning-systems-versastar-dlx6-updated-7-24-12-new-lens-option-30318/
http://elightbars.org/forums/f33/star-warning-systems-versastar-dlx6-updated-7-24-12-new-lens-option-30318/
emtanderson51 said:
Which 6 head bar was that? Supposedly none of the bars by Star utilize the same LEDs and optics that the DLX series have, but a bar with similar optics is my ideal...
bluestinger90 said:
yeah... you can see in the picture he posted when he added that 35 degree, how there is more dispersion and its less concentrated in the middle... so maybe Feniex should have a 20 degree lens offering? *shrug* I think the tint actually acts like a lens to an extent and forces some light dispersion because the off axis really isn't bad for a 20 degree...
I mounted the Feniex in my grill just now and they do fine there... they are actually mounted about 6" behind the grill and are still really visible, even off axis (being 6" BEHIND the grill)
bluestinger90
Member
I'm sure feniex can custom make a light stick with 20* takedown optics instead of the usual 35* lens they use.
Carlos SpicyWeiner
Lifetime VIP Donor
bluestinger90 said:
That they can do. These two lightheads are completely different in terms of the focal point of the optics. I personally don't stalk the DLX's because of the price. While their optics give them the advantage here, most people (including the OP) do not want to pay such an insane price for a lighthead when the cost effectiveness of the T-6 is so much better. The OP paid half as much for for a T-6 than he would even for a DLX4. Theya re the only thing visible on the front of the car at a distance so hopefully he is happy with them there.
As far as comparison videos, you will never be able to come up with enough test and lights in videos to answer every individuals questions as to their specific needs. I've seen the strangest of issues come up for people with oddball stuff(Granted punch through tint is not oddball). 5 percent tint here is super illegal even on police vehicles except k9 cars
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
Carlos SpicyWeiner
Lifetime VIP Donor
Jarred J. said:
thats why I should not post in threads while driving and in chat. MEVS06 was in chat talking about stalking station 3 (or vice versa) and i was typing out this response.
As far as the OP goes... I could swap him out for 20 degree optics as well. I've also offered to credit him towards the purchase of the DLX series. The problem is they are so abhorrently priced, that it is a HUGE step up. He seems to be trying to figure out what exactly he wants to do with the product and his setup.
FEVER said:
LMAO @ Jared J's pic...
and yeah different states have different laws... Here's TintDude.com's chart
I work in LA and TX... LA allows up to 12% on the back glass, TX allows any % on the back glass... Louisiana exempts public owned LE vehicles (not private owned) and they have a "security exemption" that can be applied for, (for anyone with a valid security concern)... TX law exempts all law enforcement vehicles "maintained by a law enforcement agency and used for law enforcement purposes"... so y'all Floridians need to get some exemptions in your tint laws!
(I feel bad for MN, 50% limit on any window? eeek)
Carlos SpicyWeiner
Lifetime VIP Donor
minig0d said:
have you been to MN?! I had an ex move up there and we tried the long distance thing. There is no sunlight exposure up there... lol We are spoiled being in the south.
FEVER said:
Yeah... still debating if I want to attempt that with the 20 degree, or if I should just throw the existing ones on a LP bracket... (I just really wanted to avoid the LP bracket as all other lights are invisible (excluding the dash light but I don't leave it on the dash)....
and posting while driving? tisk tisk I hope FL has LE exemptions for that lol... (TX does)
Carlos SpicyWeiner
Lifetime VIP Donor
minig0d said:LMAO @ Jared J's pic...
and yeah different states have different laws... Here's TintDude.com's chart
I work in LA and TX... LA allows up to 12% on the back glass, TX allows any % on the back glass... Louisiana exempts public owned LE vehicles (not private owned) and they have a "security exemption" that can be applied for, (for anyone with a valid security concern)... TX law exempts all law enforcement vehicles "maintained by a law enforcement agency and used for law enforcement purposes"... so y'all Floridians need to get some exemptions in your tint laws!
minig0d said:
VOICE TO TEXT! lol but FL doesnt have a texting while driving law.
I was going to suggest a LP bracket, however; with the tag area blurred out I couldnt really tell how it would look on your car. I have my T-4's mounted with a backup camera and it all looks like one piece.
Yes..... about six months after she moved to MN she started getting depressed. I blamed it on 1) lack of son... and 2) not getting enough FEVER :haha:
dmathieu said:
This... or even just a license plate bracket or something to have full output of the light available. Showing how the light punches through tint is one thing, but you're losing all your lighting power no matter what brand you're using.
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
minig0d said:
HEY!! if you have uncensored pics... you put them in the right thread here!!!
:dielaugh:
Hint:... it's in The Ring
Carlos SpicyWeiner
Lifetime VIP Donor
Jarred J. said:Im sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hoping you meant SUN
dammit i refuse to post anymore:suicide:
Jarred J. said:Im sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hoping you meant SUN
If he did mean sOn, then I hope it wasn't from 2) lack of fever lmao
Jarred J. said:
Hahaha if license plate #'s turn you on I'll be on my way to that meeting at work.... *whistles and walks away*
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
w have a place for custom licensce plate numbers as well. its in the off topic section..
welcome to elightbars. home of everyhting.
welcome to elightbars. home of everyhting.
Jarred J. said:
lol... nothing custom about it besides being a SAINTS plate
now that might turn a true fan on...oh and not quite everything... I was thinking this would be a great place to sell a couple new BDU's I have that don't fit me... but no appropriate section for that
hitman38367
Member
Ummm, I think there is someone here selling what inventory is left of some sort of surplus store that his company bought. Granted, he has linked his ebay store to the thread but it's still the same concept is it not? You could put them in that section, maybe...minig0d said:lol... nothing custom about it besides being a SAINTS plate
oh and not quite everything... I was thinking this would be a great place to sell a couple new BDU's I have that don't fit me... but no appropriate section for that
Jared @ 911Lights said:
Except that a vehicle that is turned on puts out a little over 14 volts (usually around 14.4) and off is about 12.6... so I guess it depends on how the light's voltage is dropped (via regulator or just with a resistor) as to whether the 2.2 volt difference matters in brightness... if voltage is dropped via resistor it may... but if I remember these lights were advertised as 12v/24v lights meaning voltage isn't dropped via resistor and therefor voltage shouldn't make much of a difference...
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and about the clothing/surplus:
I'm not sure if he had special permission or anything... and I'm a n00b so I don't want to step on any toes... but I see 4 classified forums:
For Sale or Trade: Preorders, Custom Orders and Group Buys: This section is for listing items for preorder, bulk order, custom order or other "item not in hand" sales of all safety equipment; Beacons, Lightbars, sirens, helmets, radios etc.
For Sale or Trade: Warning Equipment:This section is for listing warning equipment as for sale or trade; Beacons, Lightbars, sirens etc.
For Sale or Trade: Non-warning Safety Equipment This section is for listing non-warning equipment as for sale or trade; Radios, Scanners, Helmets, etc.
For Sale or Trade: Vintage and Collectible Equipment This section is for listing vintage warning equipment as for sale or trade; Vintage or Rare Beacons, Lightbars, sirens etc.
I'm guessing if anything it fits into the third down... but again I don't want to step on any toes or make waves being a n00b to this site... but if any mod/admin happens to see this post feel free to take the suggest.... with almost all of the members of the forum being in some branch of public safety/security, it may be useful to have a for sale forum to sell public safety stuff (ex: uniforms (without patches/insignia for obvious purposes), duty gear (belts, holsters, cuff cases, radio pouches), handcuffs, whatever equipment firefighters may purchase and need to sell when going out of the field, etc.)... I think the great part about this forum is that with people going in and out of the field all the time, there is always a market for used items... although eLb by name is a light site, since the audience is here why not limit it... for example I have these brand new BDU shirts to sell or trade... and I'd be happy to trade them for lights or other industry related items... (obviously no weapons/tasers/etc would be allowed but un-restricted items would be good!)
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
NFD-102
Member
Because your vehicle has a rear spoiler and the tints are so dark, I would throw 4 HAW's in the rear, red in the red lamps and blue in the clears. They will be brighter and cheaper then anything you try and put in the rear window. And they are still hidden.
This thread makes my head hurt. Three pages?
Accept that you (meaning OP and all folks with similar challenges) are asking the impossible. You can choose:
A. Effective warning signals
B. Tinted windows.
It's either/or, not both. No manufacturer's lights, of those that carry a certification, are certified for tint. If they perform *adequately* through tint then you got a bonus, but there is no denying that tint is going to reduce output below the light's performance upper-end limit. If Johnny Responder runs me over while making his way to the emergency then, in nearly (?) every state the burden of proof will be on Johnny that he was operating with due regard. If I know your windows are tinted and behind that tint (no matter if it's 5% or 35%) is your primary warning, then I'm going to have a strong case for stating your warning signal was not adequate and was proximate cause for my injuries/loss. And, thanks to all the YouTube videos in this thread alone, I can prove it.
Emergency vehicles should prioritize lighting for warning over window tint. If they *have* to have tint, then lighting will be reduced and should only be used for signaling violators to stop, IMO, not requesting right-of-way. Primary warning signals on tinted vehicles will need to be emitted from unobstructed exterior lighting, such as roof-mounted lightbars.
I question responding to LE calls in a POV, especially one that is not normally associated with LE use, one that has a very small profile, one that has tint so dark as to inhibit the operator's vision and the ability of other motorists to see where the operator is looking. I question the need for non-standard emergency response to situations as the OP described..."going to find drugs and such." Cool story, bro.
The right decision here is not which light will best perform at the highest level of unacceptable. The right decision is tint or effective lighting. Move the lights, pick other options, trim the tint out, or just forget having lights that are probably superfluous to your needs.
Just my advice, and it's sure to stir the nest and upset some folks, although not my intent. My intent is to make folks think. I can already hear the arguments and justifications. But no matter how *important* you deem your need to respond, your failure to provide the best possible warning to others is a disservice to the other motorists. If it's worth doing (and necessary to do), do it right. Save the "I need tint because" arguments for another day. If you have cataracts (or other medical issues) bad enough to require tint, why are you driving an emergency vehicle? For others, tint is an option, an add-on, a luxury, a want.
FWIW, I have given expert testimony in two civil suits related specifically to the adequacy of the emergency vehicle's lighting. One of those cases specifically involved interior-mounted lighting and window tint.
BTW, the grille-mounted T6s look good.
Accept that you (meaning OP and all folks with similar challenges) are asking the impossible. You can choose:
A. Effective warning signals
B. Tinted windows.
It's either/or, not both. No manufacturer's lights, of those that carry a certification, are certified for tint. If they perform *adequately* through tint then you got a bonus, but there is no denying that tint is going to reduce output below the light's performance upper-end limit. If Johnny Responder runs me over while making his way to the emergency then, in nearly (?) every state the burden of proof will be on Johnny that he was operating with due regard. If I know your windows are tinted and behind that tint (no matter if it's 5% or 35%) is your primary warning, then I'm going to have a strong case for stating your warning signal was not adequate and was proximate cause for my injuries/loss. And, thanks to all the YouTube videos in this thread alone, I can prove it.
Emergency vehicles should prioritize lighting for warning over window tint. If they *have* to have tint, then lighting will be reduced and should only be used for signaling violators to stop, IMO, not requesting right-of-way. Primary warning signals on tinted vehicles will need to be emitted from unobstructed exterior lighting, such as roof-mounted lightbars.
I question responding to LE calls in a POV, especially one that is not normally associated with LE use, one that has a very small profile, one that has tint so dark as to inhibit the operator's vision and the ability of other motorists to see where the operator is looking. I question the need for non-standard emergency response to situations as the OP described..."going to find drugs and such." Cool story, bro.
The right decision here is not which light will best perform at the highest level of unacceptable. The right decision is tint or effective lighting. Move the lights, pick other options, trim the tint out, or just forget having lights that are probably superfluous to your needs.
Just my advice, and it's sure to stir the nest and upset some folks, although not my intent. My intent is to make folks think. I can already hear the arguments and justifications. But no matter how *important* you deem your need to respond, your failure to provide the best possible warning to others is a disservice to the other motorists. If it's worth doing (and necessary to do), do it right. Save the "I need tint because" arguments for another day. If you have cataracts (or other medical issues) bad enough to require tint, why are you driving an emergency vehicle? For others, tint is an option, an add-on, a luxury, a want.
FWIW, I have given expert testimony in two civil suits related specifically to the adequacy of the emergency vehicle's lighting. One of those cases specifically involved interior-mounted lighting and window tint.
BTW, the grille-mounted T6s look good.
hitman38367
Member
This the reason why all my lights have had the tint trimmed and removed from in front of them. I took the 20% strip off today that was in front of my MicroMan bars as well. The rest of my lights had the trimming done at the initial point of installation. And JMO, if you do the install correctly while trimming the tint, your lights won't be noticeable anyway unless you want them to be. No one can see my Vipers in my back glass even with the tint trimmed, that is, until they are turned on or they are standing right at the back glass looking in.C2Installs said:
C2Installs said:
1) Truth be told, I don't know if I have mentioned it thus far... but the vehicle is likely to be traded in relatively soon for a new vehicle... hence why I am hesitant to cut tint, or try to strip the tint... a large percentage of attempts to remove tint from back glass end up ripping off the defroster strips... I actually did somewhat try to see if I could strip it but it's been on there too long I guess and its not coming off... nor did I put the tint on the car, it was tinted when I bought it.. so no I haven't messed with it... and no you will not hear a "I need tint because" anything argument from me... I agree with just about everything you have said... but being rear lighting and the front is being NO tint (besides the factory sunstrip (NOT aftermarket sunstrip))... I would love if the car had some 30% tint on the back window so I could throw another Gen 1 ILB up there too and some deck lights... I can pick up one of these Gen 1 ILBs for the price of a pair of T-6's... I didn't "buy tint" to be a cool guy or a "whacker"... and I'm sorry if I came of that way... I'm just trying not to devalue the vehicle so when I trade it I reap maximum benefit...
2) It would be pretty hard to run someone over in-route to anything... if you would have said that they sued because I was blocking a street and they couldn't see lights etc etc then yes maybe so... as far as lighting requirements, you're welcome to look at Texas's Transportation Code 547.702, Police vehicles don't have to have any particular lighting (see subsection f)... obviously there is still a duty of care and responsibility.... but just making a point
3) Not a cool story... just facts
Just being honest.... but hey you inspired me... I'll mount the other set of T-6's on the License Plate So out of curiosity, what are your credentials to allow you to have been admitted as an expert witness on the adequacy of emergency vehicle lighting? I'm not trying to call you out, just curiosity...And the grill mounted T-6's were actually rather surprising. They are mounted about 6-8" BEHIND the front edge of the grill (even with a simple custom fabricated bracket, without some complicated bending, that was as close as they were getting... they appear like they are right behind the grill though because of the lens... I was pleasantly surprised...
Also there's a corollary... some of the guys on here with blinky stuff everywhere... if someone wrecks because they were blinded by blinky stuff, you know they are going to sue as well... Hell, you know people will sue regardless... even if everything is textbook... but I realize the uniqueness of the circumstances and I am extra cautious about use of lights and liability etc... thank you for your input!
Realize though that the point of this thread wasn't "showing off" or anything of that nature... I was 1) stating that there was all this hype about Feniex and look how they compared to the Star/SVP offering that hardly anyone is raging about 2) that taking videos showing through tint could prove to be an effective comparison of light output discernible on video 3) inquiring as to what other lights on the market may be equal or brighter than what I have now so I can make the best of the temporary situation... But the fact of the matter is I do have way more lighting than 60% of the first responders out there, many of who only have a dash light or some autozone LEDs and siren only etc... you know this...
acala91 said:It sounds as if these two issues are directly related
LMAO... must be siri... she's brilliant!
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CLIFF NOTES for those who don't want to read all the below: I was able to remove 1 layer of tint, it's now not very dark, putting all 4 T6's in the back window and moving DLX4's to front!
So an interesting turn of events... so I was going to mount the remaining 2 T-6's on a license plate bracket... then I realized that the Feniex bracket covers the state name if mounted on the top (and my vehicle doesn't have mount holes on the bottom... I didn't want to risk mounting the bracket to the LP and just having the LP attached at the bottom... so then I decided I was going to buy a LP frame like this:
But doing so would require the lights again be mounted on the bottom... and then opened up another can of worms on how to get the wires inside the vehicle... and since these T-6's have a resistor or capacitor or transistor on the power lead, that posed another issue (obviously I could cut it off and solder it back on upstream inside the vehicle etc...) but again not a 5 minute project... the LP Light openings are all sealed so it would require drilling and all... so I started googling tint removal techniques... my goal was to separate the second tint layer and attempt to leave the underlying tint layer intact... so the two methods most successful were soaking in ammonia to destroy the tint, or using a steamer which the heat and moisture would release the glue... so I gave the second method a shot (as I wasn't trying to ruin the bottom tint layer... I have this little baby fabric steamer that my mom had given me... it's like 20 years old but it works still... I figured I'd try it out on a corner but eventually I'd probably need a larger one that had a wand to get in the tight space of the back window... so I start on an upper corner... and right away the tint releases... 30 seconds to a minute later, with minimal steam, the upper tint layer peeled right off! not touching the bottom layer one bit! steam method rocks! Best part is there was NO residue/glue left on the bottom layer (I'm guessing it wasn't just the steam but that the tint couldn't adhere to a second layer of tint as well as it could glass).. but the second layer of tint is off! Now I'm left with a pristine 20% back window!!!
So I threw the second T-6 back up in the window... and it definitely does much better through the 20% tint!!! I still think the DLX4 is brighter, but the T-6 is definitely bright enough to satisfy most of the critics on here!!! Only problem is now I have to remake custom brackets for the DLX4's in the grill and sync and wire both sets of T-6's in the back window!! and its 90 degrees outside and steamy!!! oh and the tint is now fairly light and you can see the lights through the tint fairly easily (I'm questioning whether its actually 20% in the rear as it looks more like 35%)... so back to my original plan of 4 T-6's in the rear window I believe... and move the DLX4's to the grill...