13 yr old carrying "fake" rifle, shot and killed by deputies.

[fedsig7]

Based on the details given, what do you guys think about this?


"Police said two deputies were riding in a marked patrol vehicle and were in uniforms when they spotted Andy in a hooded sweatshirt and shorts around 3:15 p.m. Tuesday. His back was turned toward the deputies, and they did not realize he was a boy.


One of the deputies saw what appeared to be an assault rifle similar to an AK-47 in the teen's left hand. The deputies pulled over and took cover behind one of the vehicle's doors, according to police.


A witness reported seeing the patrol car's overhead emergency lights turn on and hearing the chirp of a siren, police said.


One of the deputies twice ordered Andy to drop the weapon, according to a witness, police said.


The teen was about 20 or 30 feet away from the deputies with his back toward them when he began turning around with what one deputy described as the barrel of the rifle rising up and turning in his direction, police said.


The deputy then fired several rounds, striking the boy at least once, Henry said. He was pronounced dead at the scene."


Authorities investigate fatal deputy-involving shooting of 13-year-old Santa Rosa boy | The Press Democrat

 

[mcpd2025]

Based purely upon the facts that you provided, 100% justified. They reasonably believed at the time that the deceased had a rifle. The deceased refused to comply with demands to drop the rifle. The deceased turned towards officers, presenting an immediate perceived threat to the officers.


Textbook suicide by cop. The officers don't have the means or the time to figure out if the rifle is real or not. If they reasonably believe it is real, therefore an immediate threat, they are justified.


I'm sure that doesn't help them sleep tonight or possibly ever get over this incident, but I think they did the right thing. Its not worth the risk to gamble and find out if its real or not.

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

Sucks the cops will have to deal with this but there is no doubt at all that they were justified.

 

[twodogs603]

I believe while its tragic its justified. I read this story on some news web page and the comments coming from the general public were ridiculous. One lady said the cops should have been able to tell it was a toy. Some people are just clueless. I bet if I walked up to her with a toy gun and put it in her face she would be screaming like a baby.

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

One lady said the cops should have been able to tell it was a toy.

And that moron woman should get in touch with the society we live in and realize that we have punks out there painting regular guns like toys to get them into and around places they shouldn't have them.

 

[tvsjr]

I don't think we have enough information to intelligently comment. I'd like to see the dashcam video, if it exists.

 

[FSEP]

I don't think we have enough information to intelligently comment. I'd like to see the dashcam video, if it exists.

Meh, while being very beneficial for court and department matter, I despise them for public use. They create street lawyers by the millions.

 

[Station 3]

Based on my geografical area I would of Unloaded all 15 rounds...... but that's just me and where I patrol.

 

[crescentstar69]

When I was 13, I could comprehend what I was told. If police officers were pointing guns at me and yelling I would do what they told me. Unless I wanted to die. Sounds like suicide by cop.


I also find it disturbing that every time law enforcement does anything these days, there is an immediate outcry and rush to judgement before the facts are even clear. LE certainly needs accountability, but calling for the officer's heads every single time something unfortunate happens is absurd. To paraphrase an old quote, a society that makes an enemy of it's police had better be prepared to befriend the criminals.


I blame the media. Too bad a police chief can't pull a "fake" gun at a press conference and point it at the smug reporters. They might understand how it feels.

 

[fedsig7]

Update to this all.... The sheriffs office has been closed for the past 2 days due to protests, schools are allowing kids to leave to go out and protest, and the sheriffs office has received over 200 death threats in the past 2-3 days. The FBI is also now taking over the investigation. I don't see this situation getting better anytime soon...

 

[JPolston]

Update to this all.... The sheriffs office has been closed for the past 2 days due to protests, schools are allowing kids to leave to go out and protest, and the sheriffs office has received over 200 death threats in the past 2-3 days. The FBI is also now taking over the investigation. I don't see this situation getting better anytime soon...

Police... Receiving death threats.. Yes that sounds intelligent. :duh:

 

[Hoff]

Update to this all.... The sheriffs office has been closed for the past 2 days due to protests, schools are allowing kids to leave to go out and protest, and the sheriffs office has received over 200 death threats in the past 2-3 days. The FBI is also now taking over the investigation. I don't see this situation getting better anytime soon...

Wow. Glad to see the school system there is working hard to educate.... just in the wrong education. This is why I will not go back to Cali to live anytime soon.

 

[Station 3]

Even if it was justified "WHICH IT WAS" you will always have the typical douche bags saying "why could you not guys call in a helicopter and follow that guy walking down the street with the helicopter and its lasers... YEAH like i can just pull a helicopter out of my ass at a moments notice for some fricken call....." or the typical " WHY did you not shoot the guy in the leg with magical sugar happyness bullets that stop bad guys"

 

[crescentstar69]

I try not to read the typical asinine comments cretins leave after internet news stories, but I have been watching some of them on this issue. Absolutely unbelievable How much hate, misinformation, and just plain absurdity is being spread. Many comments say the officer should have allowed himself to be shot first, and only then return fire, because he was wearing body armor. Of course we know a rifle round would go through a vest like butter. Maybe there isn't enough public education, although it is obvious most of these people don't want to listen anyway.

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

This is the biggest reason I tell my son he should never look to join law enforcement in the future. It's a thankless job and there is so much to lose.


His health, life, and freedom are not worth the horrible pay and there is no true "family" or "brotherhood" mentality anymore. I don't want to see him get hurt and be tossed to the curb like yesterday's garbage for nothing. Don't want to see him prosecuted or publicly persecuted for something he did that was a crappy situation but he was justified in doing.


I love my job, but realistically no one cares about us. We are on our own. The agencies don't care to protect or take care of their officers as much as they use to. It's far cheaper to toss them to the garbage bin if they get hurt or put in a crappy situation such as this.

 

[crescentstar69]

Well spoken, FEVER. I never recommend young people join law enforcement anymore. I tell them if they want to be a hero, be a fireman. Everyone loves the guys in the big red truck. Police work is the worst job I have ever seen where you can do everything right and still lose. Glad I am out, even though I almost had to get killed to get my pension.

 

[Phillyrube]

And that moron woman should get in touch with the society we live in and realize that we have punks out there painting regular guns like toys to get them into and around places they shouldn't have them.

Like these?


Mistaken Identity: 12 Real Guns That Actually Look Like Toys (PHOTOS) | Global Grind

 

[Phillyrube]

His health, life, and freedom are not worth the horrible pay and there is no true "family" or "brotherhood" mentality anymore. .

Ain;t that the truth. Retiring on Jan. 1, but resting at home after rotator cuff repair, and I haven't had so much as a Fuck You from my bosses.

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

Ain;t that the truth. Retiring on Jan. 1, but resting at home after rotator cuff repair, and I haven't had so much as a Fuck You from my bosses.

Not retiring but suffered a severe life altering injury and pretty much got the same response. It's only a "family" for bosses when someone dies or its convenient.

 

[JohnMarcson]

None of us were there or have seen a video. From the info I have read it sounds tragic, but that does't mean it was unjustified. People who have never been in law enforcement don't understand how it is to have to make these decisions.


When I was 12 years old I was playing with a drill rifle out in a residential wooded area. When an officer approached and told me to drop the gun and put my hands up, I did it. Even though I was stupid enough to play with a real gun in public, I was still smart enough to follow the police officer's instructions. That's because my parents taught me that a toy gun is a real gun until proven otherwise. If your kid rides a bike, teach them bike safety. If you kid wants a gun (real or not), they are interested in guns and need instruction in gun safety.


It sucks that this happened, but people need to stop loosing their shit. I really believe that people just have an instinctive need to be angry and fight battles occasionally, and just pick the first thing that comes along. Does anyone really think that officers intentionally shot a child out of malice? At worst it was a terrible mistake (although that's not what the evidence shows). Multiple lives are screwed up now on all "sides". What possible good does all this rabble rousing do? These are the same people that will go nuts when the police "fail" to respond strongly enough in other situations. Again, no one wins.

 

[FSEP]

It's kind of ironic this got posted. About a week ago, a child at one of the schools I work at brought a BB gun to the school (I wasn't there at the time). At some point the SRO found out and made contact. During the contact, the child pointed the bb gun at the SRO...I'm not sure it it was attentional though..However, to say the least, the child was very lucky not to come out of this situation dead.


Oh, the child was under 13 too.. :weird:

 

[tvsjr]

I'm not sure it it was attentional though..

I don't think the word means what you think it means:


attentional - definition of attentional by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


Perhaps you were going for "intentional"?

 

[cybercop]

The officer saw a threat, did what he was trained to do, and stopped the threat. Gone are the days when we were kids playing cops and robbers out on the street wtih out cap guns with orange tips and playing pac-man on Atari.


Now its all these violent games, bullying, lack of parental supervision and discipline, medicate the kids, etc.... This is the future of the youth as society will not deal with them, so now LEOs have to take over when they are called to respond and quite frankly joe or sue public may not like the end result.


Here is another one that occurred almost similar to the one posted, Cummings Middle School Shooting | KRGV.com | CHANNEL 5 NEWS | Breaking News Breaking Stories

 

[JohnMarcson]

If people need to focus on something I would suggest making this an example for a push to educate children how to interact with police. Sit down with your child and explain to them how and why the police will contact them.


I have had to do public safety talks at schools with small groups and when asked about police (in their absence) here's my song and dance. All crap you all and your kids know.





Police officers are here to protect everyone. Most times you see a police officer they are just helping someone or patrolling to make sure everything is safe. It is rare that they have to do something exciting or scary, those times just stick out more. Unfortunately, for various reasons, some people want to keep the police from protecting the community. That means police officers must always be on alert for people wanting to hurt others, including the officers. If you are ever in a situation where the police are called, it's important that you remember they can't tell who's a good guy and who's a bad guy when they first arrive. There are very specific ways in which they need you to move and behave to make sure you aren't going to hurt anyone. The police officer(s) will instruct you what to do, and it's important you do what they ask. Do not reach for anything or move suddenly. The police cannot tell if you are reaching for a gun or a phone. Police officers have to make sure the whole area is safe before they even begin to "get the story" of why they are there or what's going on. Once they have made sure you are not a threat there will be plenty of time to discuss what's going on. Sometimes they have to put handcuffs on everyone, even the good guys, until they sort the situation out. Once the area is under control and safe, the officer(s) will confirm everyone's identity. This is simply to confirm who they are talking to. Imagine what could happen if the police pulled me over and I gave your name and they never checked. You could get my speeding ticket. If you are a kid the police also will want you parent or guardian's name(s). It's important that you are honest about this information. If you lie they will find out eventually anyway and everyone's time has been wasted. It is a crime to give a false identity, especially to the police.





Remember:





Do as you are told.


Don't make sudden movements.


Keep your hands visible, don't reach for anything.


Be polite.


Don't lie.











After I give this speech I have to prepare myself for a volley of "my daddy/brother says the police a bad/mean/out to get us." So the real problem is people aren't being given this lecture at home; or worse yet are being given opposite info. If the are being fed crap like that they sure as hell aren't being taught about gun (and replica/toy gun) safety.