2015 F 250

wilmfire

Member
Sep 11, 2013
69
vermont
Finally finished the install.

Front:  Whelen all red Inner Edge

            Whelen M7  - 2 r/w font of grill and 2 all red on side of grill

            Whelen SSA314 speakers (2) on Setina grill guard

Rear:  Whelen custom 400 series inner light-bar (red flashing with amber lower traffic advisor)

           Atomic CHSL replacement light with built in flasher

           Whelen TIR 6 (2) on top of tool box

           Whelen Ion D (r/w) on license plate bracket  - red flash and white override for rear lighting

All controlled by Whelen Cencom Saphire mounted on console using RAM mount.

http://youtu.be/NEah1SGIob0
 
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tsquale

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 12, 2010
10,543
Minnesota, USA
Rather see the split r/w M7's synced so the colors flash together and the other split heads flashed solid. Not a fan of the lights in the CHMSL, but otherwise a sharp looking truck.
 

acala91

Member
Oct 15, 2010
1,662
FL
The siren speaks should be mounted beneath the crossbar on the push bumper and the M7s horizontally to the top of the crossbar. You lose all the off axis output the M7s offer by mounting them vertically. 
 

wilmfire

Member
Sep 11, 2013
69
vermont
You folks crack me up. 

The M7's are just as bright mounted vertically as they are horizontally.  The vertical supports of the grill guard block any "off axis" lighting projection.

As for off axis, watch the video.  The two M7's mounted to the sides of the grill give the off axis warning.  I use the split pattern to give a "constant on" illusion. It's called "persistence of vision".

As per the speaker placement, did you happed to notice the LED driving light?  Also, I have snow issues in Vermont in the winter.  Speakers mounted down low frequently clog with slush even though they are covered with mesh (pantyhose).

I agree with CHMSL not being very effective, but the LED cargo light is extremely bright, well worth the cash.
 
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Nathan R

Lifetime VIP Donor
Mar 27, 2014
853
USA
For Complete Installs:

Pictures: Front/sides/rear shots, specifically where any warning lights/switches/controls are mounted.

Please list of the following:
- What does/is the vehicle do/used for
- A complete list of lights/sirens/switches controllers/etc, with manufacturer info
- Make/model/year of vehicle type in title

A description of how you went about installing all of the above. The more detailed, the better. The more pictures, the better.
 
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paff2

Member
Nov 30, 2010
842
Lancaster, PA
You folks crack me up. 

The M7's are just as bright mounted vertically as they are horizontally.  The vertical supports of the grill guard block any "off axis" lighting projection.

As for off axis, watch the video.  The two M7's mounted to the sides of the grill give the off axis warning.  I use the split pattern to give a "constant on" illusion. It's called "persistence of vision".

As per the speaker placement, did you happed to notice the LED driving light?  Also, I have snow issues in Vermont in the winter.  Speakers mounted down low frequently clog with slush even though they are covered with mesh (pantyhose).

I agree with CHMSL not being very effective, but the LED cargo light is extremely bright, well worth the cash.

1. Persistence of vision? That's a new one. Split patterns are NOT as effective especially at a distance regardless of how you look at it. Set one to the pattern of your choice and set the other on a solid pattern. See which one is the most effective.

2. If you want to split the grill M7s then syncing them will help.

3. There are a lot of people on here that are very experienced in lighting. Up to you if you want to listen to the critique or not.
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
I use the split pattern to give a "constant on" illusion. It's called "persistence of vision".
:crackup: So basically you're saying you want steady burning lights that are half as bright. Just set them all to steady burn and they're twice as bright. Or do you want to waste money making wonderfully bright lights dim? There's a reason we've used flashing warning lights for the past, what is it, like eighty years or so?
 
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pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
The siren speaks should be mounted beneath the crossbar on the push bumper and the M7s horizontally to the top of the crossbar.
The top crossbar is a nerf-style, round bar...any lightheads mounted directly to that (or on an L-bracket attached to that would look like crap). The speakers shouldn't be any lower....the salt on the road and inclement weather in NH & VT aren't very friendly in wintertime

You folks crack me up.


The M7's are just as bright mounted vertically as they are horizontally. The vertical supports of the grill guard block any "off axis" lighting projection.


As for off axis, watch the video. The two M7's mounted to the sides of the grill give the off axis warning. I use the split pattern to give a "constant on" illusion. It's called "persistence of vision".
The whole "you folks crack me up" is just an ignorant comment, b/c you have multiple knowledgable people telling you that the optics are designed to provide maximum output horizontally. The M7's also just look extremely tacky mounted vertically; 2 solid forward-facing red M7's and 2 smaller horizontally-mounted M-series on the sides of the PB would definitely be more effective


The "persistence of vision" sounds stupid; when the lightheads flash, especially on some of the faster patterns (up to 300 fpm), there's literally only a tiny millisecond of time when the lighthead isn't illuminated
 

Zapp Brannigan

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 23, 2010
3,580
.
You folks crack me up. 

...

As for off axis, watch the video.  The two M7's mounted to the sides of the grill give the off axis warning.  I use the split pattern to give a "constant on" illusion. It's called "persistence of vision".
:crackup: So basically you're saying you want steady burning lights that are half as bright. Just set them all to steady burn and they're twice as bright. Or do you want to waste money making wonderfully bright lights dim? There's a reason we've used flashing warning lights for the past, what is it, like eighty years or so?
This guy actually thinks something always on is more attention grabbing then something flashing.


Lol
The whole "you folks crack me up" is just an ignorant comment, b/c you have multiple knowledgable people telling you that the optics are designed to provide maximum output horizontally. The M7's also just look extremely tacky mounted vertically; 2 solid forward-facing red M7's and 2 smaller horizontally-mounted M-series on the sides of the PB would definitely be more effective


The "persistence of vision" sounds stupid; when the lightheads flash, especially on some of the faster patterns (up to 300 fpm), there's literally only a tiny millisecond of time when the lighthead isn't illuminated
Stare @ a headlight in a car.

Stare @ a lighthouse, or beacon @ an airport.

One is constantly on, the other slowly flashes.

OBVIOUSLY the one that is more effective for warning, because it is "persistently" on. Guess time to strap some flashlights to my cars roof.

super facepalm.png
 
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acala91

Member
Oct 15, 2010
1,662
FL
You folks crack me up. 

The M7's are just as bright mounted vertically as they are horizontally.  The vertical supports of the grill guard block any "off axis" lighting projection.

As for off axis, watch the video.  The two M7's mounted to the sides of the grill give the off axis warning.  I use the split pattern to give a "constant on" illusion. It's called "persistence of vision".

As per the speaker placement, did you happed to notice the LED driving light?  Also, I have snow issues in Vermont in the winter.  Speakers mounted down low frequently clog with slush even though they are covered with mesh (pantyhose).

I agree with CHMSL not being very effective, but the LED cargo light is extremely bright, well worth the cash.
"Persistence of vision" WTF? No, a constant on light is not more attention grabbing than a flashing light. The side facing M7s do not provide off axis because the M7 uses linear style optics which are designed to spread the light horizontally. Yes, the M7s will have the same brightness straight on regardless of which direction they are mounted, but when they are mounted vertically you waste all that light as it shines up in the air and at the ground. This is great if you are trying to get low flying aircraft to yield but not great if you are trying to respond through traffic. 

To answer your question, no I did not notice the driving light and I did not think of any issues with snow. Being from Florida it's not something I need to be concerned with. 

The top crossbar is a nerf-style, round bar...any lightheads mounted directly to that (or on an L-bracket attached to that would look like crap). The speakers shouldn't be any lower....the salt on the road and inclement weather in NH & VT aren't very friendly in wintertime


The whole "you folks crack me up" is just an ignorant comment, b/c you have multiple knowledgable people telling you that the optics are designed to provide maximum output horizontally. The M7's also just look extremely tacky mounted vertically; 2 solid forward-facing red M7's and 2 smaller horizontally-mounted M-series on the sides of the PB would definitely be more effective


The "persistence of vision" sounds stupid; when the lightheads flash, especially on some of the faster patterns (up to 300 fpm), there's literally only a tiny millisecond of time when the lighthead isn't illuminated
I didn't mean the top round bar, by crossbar I meant what the speakers are currently mounted to. As I mentioned above, I didn't think of snow being an issue because I don't deal with snow down here in FL. 

If the speakers need to be at their current height, it appears there is enough room to mount the speakers next to each other in the middle with the M7s on the outsides.
 
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PTRJason

Member
Jul 25, 2010
395
Silverpeak, NV
"Persistence of vision" WTF? No, a constant on light is not more attention grabbing than a flashing light. The side facing M7s do not provide off axis because the M7 uses linear style optics which are designed to spread the light horizontally. Yes, the M7s will have the same brightness straight on regardless of which direction they are mounted, but when they are mounted vertically you waste all that light as it shines up in the air and at the ground. This is great if you are trying to get low flying aircraft to yield but not great if you are trying to respond through traffic. 

To answer your question, no I did not notice the driving light and I did not think of any issues with snow. Being from Florida it's not something I need to be concerned with. 

I didn't mean the top round bar, by crossbar I meant what the speakers are currently mounted to. As I mentioned above, I didn't think of snow being an issue because I don't deal with snow down here in FL. 

If the speakers need to be at their current height, it appears there is enough room to mount the speakers next to each other in the middle with the M7s on the outsides.
EXCEPT In Cali!!!! A Steady red light is king and will draw your attention better then a UFO :) :) :)  

I love my steady burns, but they have to be used right.  But in this case, I think flashing solid would be best unless, the pattern is very very slow.
 

acala91

Member
Oct 15, 2010
1,662
FL
EXCEPT In Cali!!!! A Steady red light is king and will draw your attention better then a UFO :) :) :)

I love my steady burns, but they have to be used right.  But in this case, I think flashing solid would be best unless, the pattern is very very slow.
I like steady burn too but like you said it has to be used right. One steady head in a lightbar or a steady burn dashlight amongst other flashing lights looks good. 
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
Stare @ a headlight in a car.

Stare @ a lighthouse, or beacon @ an airport.

One is constantly on, the other slowly flashes.

OBVIOUSLY the one that is more effective for warning, because it is "persistently" on. Guess time to strap some flashlights to my cars roof.

attachicon.gif
super facepalm.png
Mkay here's the deal. You lucked out cause I'ma tell it like it is without being an asshole.

Steady burning lights have their place. They do help people know where a vehicle is in between flashes, and they're good in bright sun at a long distance, and less dazzling at night. But they're not effective always and everywhere. They only work when someone is already looking in that direction, and you've already gotten their attention. There are a ton of steady burning lights pretty much everywhere at night, especially in traffic - headlights, brake lights, signs on businesses, traffic lights, need I go on? And color doesn't help because color isn't as effectively perceived in peripheral vision, which is what intersection warning depends on. And farther out in a direction closer to where drivers are already looking, a slower flashing light still gets people's attention because of the flashing effect; again, there are too many steady burning lights around, even in rural areas, to be obviously an emergency vehicle.

To get effective warning, you need a balance between getting attention, and overwhelming attention, neither of which do steady burning lights do - they only maintain it. Intersection warning, visible to the side of a vehicle at the very front, should have a high flash rate to get people's attention when only the front of the vehicle is visible past an obstruction like a large truck. Everywhere else, large synchronized chunks of light grouped by color (i.e. don't mix colors or else you get a pink or purple mess) help people quickly identify an emergency vehicle and respond approprately immediately, or at least as soon as they care enough to respond. Steady burning lights just don't convey urgency and command control of the road.

Here's where steady burning lights do work: First, cruse lights. Low-intensity steady burning lights assist identification of a marked emergency vehicle, when it's not responding, especially at night; and when it is responding, a light not being fully "off" helps people track where the vehicle is going and how fast so they can stay out of its way better. Second, to the front and rear, steady burning lights work on a long straight stretch of road where, once flashing lights have gotten their attention, people can tell where the vehicle is going from a much longer distance than flashing lights, especially ones on a very fast flash pattern. Fast flash patterns overwhelm the senses at night and lose effectiveness at a distance during the day, so slow is good, and steady burning lights are the slowest of all, but too slow and it just doesn't get people's attention.

If you like steady burning lights, use no more than two to the front and sides while the vehicle is in motion, or some other number that qualifies as much less than your flashing lights. While the vehicle is stopped, it doesn't matter as much - California Highway Patrol pretty much does everything right with blinky lights as far as I can tell and when they're stopped they put everything in front on steady burn. To the rear, steady burning amber to the rear is always bad since steady amber indicates the front of a vehicle. When you're moving, not much is necessary to the rear as long as there's at least one flashing light of your primary response color (i.e. if one light, then not amber; additional amber is ok) to let people know that's actually a responding emergency vehicle. When stopped, amber to the rear, and a lot of it in my opinion, is good because it tells people "nothing to see here, move along and give us room to breathe" but all amber to the rear should be flashing. Steady red or blue is fine to the rear when stopped, just not too much or else it just gets too bright like you're shining high beams in people's faces, and again, have at least a little flashing light in your primary response color - must be slow to the rear - to let people know that it's actually a noteworthy vehicle.

Split flash patterns reduce your warning lights' effectiveness by ensuring that they are never at full brightness, reduce the effective size of the light by half (or worse), and put steady-burning warning at a reduced intensity where it's neither necessary or effective. If the whole light flashes at once, you get the full effect with maximum intensity and a flashing effect that is visible from much much farther away. Split color lights should pretty much never be used since they have all the drawbacks of a split single-color light, plus if you flash the whole light all at once then at a distance it turns into an off-colored pink or purple mess that doesn't adequately identify the vehicle or communicate a proper response to the motorist.

As for the vertical mounting versus horizontal, how about you just pull up in front of a light-colored wall at night and see where most of the light goes - if the light distribution pattern is all up-down vertical in shape, you're doing it wrong because you're losing high intensity warning at angles where it is most useful, i.e. at roughly the same level as your vehicle. Birds and roadkill don't care about your warning lights; other vehicles do.

I get that you're making a noteworthy effort to make your warning lights more effective, but your effort is misguided and makes your visual warning system less effective. But you've got good stuff to work with - the Whelen M7's are some of the best lights on the market today. The quickest and easiest way to fix your truck is just adjust the flash patterns - your forward grille lights are, considering the split colors, okay, apart from the vertical mounting. You'd be best served turning them to be properly oriented but that'd leave ugly holes you might not want to have to hide. Your intersection-angled ones should be swapped to a non-split quad-flash - fast, but not too fast - and ideally either replaced in the same location with smaller lights that fit there when properly oriented, like a Whelen LINZ6, or moved to a different location where they can be properly oriented while providing the intersection warning you want. Pretty much your grille piece is gonna have holes in it no matter what you do.  I'd say your front headliner bar is okay as it is. For the rear, set it to a moderately slow left-right alternating single flash, synchronized as best you can, maybe with the toolbox lights on steady burn and the license plate lights on a moderate alternating non-split quad flash.

Good lord, what an effort post... I oughta frame this

edit: Why the drag strip?
 
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Zapp Brannigan

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 23, 2010
3,580
.
nerdly_dood,

Obviously I was being facetious.

YES, steady burn does have it's place, but its used in conjunction with conventional warning.

The old, original fire and police apparatus had steady burn lamps until when, the '40s, '50s generally? Nowadays, obviously CA has their Cali-steady, and some other places adopt it, but obviously, having ALL the lights have a general "always on/visible" is counter-productive.
 
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Krsdog25

Member
Apr 30, 2012
187
NJ
1 - Lots of split-fail (you spent good money on high intensity lights only to use half the light)

2 - Mounting linear lights vertically  :duh:

3 - Speaker placement should be lower(it would still be a good 2-3 feet off the ground) which would have allowed you to    

     mount the M7s horizontally to the grill where they would have been far more effective.

4 - Why put a light stick behind tint if you've already committed to mounting lights to the toolbox?

5 - Great job with the slow pattern on the TIR6 but why spilt the IONs?

You posted your work here to be evaluated by a knowledgeable community.  They offered suggestions based on their years of knowledge, experience and learning things the hard way and you responded by getting defensive. Accept the advice and offer a friendly justification as to why you may have done something the way you did and you won't get the whole place flaming you.  Good Luck.
 
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