Automatic licence plate recognition system

[wrights lights llc]

So this morning I was next to a new Des Moines police ford sedan at a stop light and next to his lightbar were 4 licence plate scanners. One on each corner of the bar. I figured mabie they got one or two to test. But since this morning I have seen at least 3. 2 Were on new sedans and one was on a Ford Utility. I will get some pictures as soon as I can.


What do you guys think of using a automatic licence plate recognition system.


I havent heard of them being used on standard patrol cars before.

 

[Hoser]

They started showing up around here about a year ago. Someone told me that each agency could get one thru a grant.

 

[K9Vic]

I have nothing against them as I have nothing to hide, they are used to find stolen cars and people with warrants that are registered to that vehicle. I is no different then an officer memorizing plates from the hot list, but this tool make their job easier. I recall an old episode of COPS where the officer talks about looking at the hot sheet each morning and remembering & jotting down plates of high interest. Plus with all the cameras that are in the public element, what makes it any more intrusive?


Anyways, people that are against them generally have something to hide and are breaking the law. It may be places like Cali where they try to elude yearly registration and feel they are doing nothing wrong and do not want to get caught breaking the law. To the guy with multiple warrants that needs to be put in jail.

 

[lafd55]

A lot of officers around me don't like them because they go off so much, must just turn the system off or unplug them. Works great for parking enforcement, nut I'm not sold on them being on patrol cars, unless you're in a town/city that does not have some sort of parking enforcement/traffic.

 

[hitman38367]

Memphis Police Dept. has been using those things for years and from what I hear, they love them. It was a grant thing I think called Blue Crush.

 

[RL1]

My 15 man dept has one, and some of the guys are talking about trying getting a second so night shift can have one, too. I'm trained on it and have made some good arrests off of it, but it's a love/hate type of thing. If you are doing nothing but traffic and not answering calls, it can be great because every time you get an alert, you can go after it. Also you will run wayyyyyy more tags and get a lot more hits then you could manually. Some down sides are it's a very lazy system. You can pretty much just sit in the middle of the road and wait for a hit. I don't like that because your other skills can deteriorate. Also, since our system is only a few months old, the chief and city admin really only want who ever is running it to only stop for hits. It's not like you will get in trouble or anything for stopping a speeder or someone who blew a red light, but they spent a lot of money on it and want results.

 

[SomeBloke]

British ANPR has been round for a while and was introduced as an anti terrorist device to foil IRA plots etc


Now it's fitted to most Traffic cars and some patrol car as well as stationary CCTV cameras. It's used to track down any uninsured cars, stolen cars or mostly any sort of crime the vehicle is used in. Even better is Officers can often customize the alert sound. I've heard "yabadabadoo" and "dun dun Duuuuun!!" as alerts which is often hilarious.


I think if the US adopted a national crime database it would be invaluable as it is a damn useful tool but limited by the individual state mentality.


It is great for the Uk where we have the lovely Police national Computer database.

 

[JCUMMINS]

The plate readers also takes a photo of every plate it reads and saves it to a database. You can go back to see when and where a vehicle was encountered.

 

[04P71]

They are used on patrol cars by several agencies in my area, local, Sheriff's and NYSP. Have had one on my charger for everyday use over two years now. They are great for everyday use as well as investigations, amber alerts, missing persons vehicles, etc.

 

[CarolinaJAM]

I would echo the same things many of you all have stated. Some people really like them, and some don't. West Columbia PD has them on at least 5 of their patrol cars. They have been proven to be very useful. Also, agencies that run highway drug interdiction have talked about them being very useful as well. Spoke with an officer in Lenox, GA and he said they made their money back in less than a month based off the services of the ALPR.

 

[RL1]

I would echo the same things many of you all have stated. Some people really like them, and some don't. West Columbia PD has them on at least 5 of their patrol cars. They have been proven to be very useful. Also, agencies that run highway drug interdiction have talked about them being very useful as well. Spoke with an officer in Lenox, GA and he said they made their money back in less than a month based off the services of the ALPR.

We had projected two months of operation to pay it off. Took three weeks...

 

[RickLBZ]

I like the idea for traffic and parking units. Units will never make it to calls for service with it constantly warning in rush hour traffic.


A few repo companies also have them down here in Miami, FL. They run the plates in the repo database for work.

 

[Radarcop290]

We have 3 of the ALPR system's from ELSAG. Mobile Plate Hunter systems. They are IMPRESSIVE. In Maryland they pick up not only Stolen Tags, but they also pick up suspended plates, suspended drivers (if it's the vehicle owner), vehicles with no insurance, and wanted persons (again if the vehicle owner). We have been having some major successes with our ALPR's. The problem is the cost. We paid (grant funded) about $25,000 per unit. We definitely want more of them but the problem is the price. Even though they have come down some, $18,000 per unit is still really STEEP for most police departments to pay. Especially in our dismal economy right now. There isn't much extra funding for "toys" so to speak. They are extremely useful devices. I worked Traffic for most of my career and had I had an ALPR system, I would have probably made 5 times as many arrests (or more!). I like the fact they can pick up violations that would otherwise go unnoticed as long as a criminal would not commit any traffic violation and used caution while driving. And I also like the fact that they are non profiling. They only look at the tag. PERIOD. No race, color, creed, vehicle type, etc. It only identifies criminals through a tag# and it objectively reads EVERYONE! They average 4,000 tags per shift depending on how much traffic you have in your jurisdiction. Our systems "auto upload" all the data to the state server a few times per hour so there is absolutely no interaction needed by the officer using the system. It auto downloads the state "hot list" several times per day automatically and then auto uploads any tags the system has read automatically several times per day to a statewide database which retains the data for one year. All the officer does is double click the icon when he/she gets into the police car which activates the ALPR system and drives away. The system does the rest from there. ALPR is incredible technology for active law enforcement officers. These devices have helped to solve several crimes in our county by allowing us to back track or review archival data to determine suspects of crimes or develop suspect information based on data from the ALPR systems.

 

[HILO]

I like the idea for traffic and parking units. Units will never make it to calls for service with it constantly warning in rush hour traffic.

A few repo companies also have them down here in Miami, FL. They run the plates in the repo database for work.

I found a repo scout with them on his car. He turned around on me once he realized I was taking pictures of him. He cried about how I can not take his picture until I pointed out I knew what he was doing! He gave up alot of info. Not only do they scan for hits on repo lists, they have lists of names from skip trace lists and the program will hit if a registration matches a name. His program also records all plates and locations that can be used for future use. So private companies are recording every vehicle they encounter. This I do not care for.


A Grand Prairie squad with cameras sat outside my shop this morning, fishing. He got 3 hits, going after 3 different cars, in an hour. He was in a Crown Vic, and it was funny hearing that thing struggle to u-turn and catch up to the suspect vehicle. The 3rd time, there was a Tahoe PPV sitting behind him, they both took off after the hit, ad the Tahoe almost climbed into the trunk of the Vic launching off the u-turn, swung wide and smoked the vic.

 

[K9Vic]

I found a repo scout with them on his car. He turned around on me once he realized I was taking pictures of him. He cried about how I can not take his picture until I pointed out I knew what he was doing! He gave up alot of info. Not only do they scan for hits on repo lists, they have lists of names from skip trace lists and the program will hit if a registration matches a name. His program also records all plates and locations that can be used for future use. So private companies are recording every vehicle they encounter. This I do not care for.

A Grand Prairie squad with cameras sat outside my shop this morning, fishing. He got 3 hits, going after 3 different cars, in an hour. He was in a Crown Vic, and it was funny hearing that thing struggle to u-turn and catch up to the suspect vehicle. The 3rd time, there was a Tahoe PPV sitting behind him, they both took off after the hit, ad the Tahoe almost climbed into the trunk of the Vic launching off the u-turn, swung wide and smoked the vic.

So the guy with a multiple cameras on his car taking pictures of other peoples licenses plates without their permission does not want you taking pictures of his car? BS, but looks like he did not make a major case about it.


Yeah I do not think private companies should be allowed to use them, but with out any laws in place to prevent it we cannot stop it.


Oh, yeah the CVPI is slow compared to the Tahoe PPV. I had a Dodge Magnum police with the HEMI for a month and it smoked the hell out of the Tahoe. It was so quick and being able to fully disabled ESP I had to sell it in fear I would rack up speeding tickets. Anyways, the CVPI is not very fast compared to modern police vehicles.

 

[RickLBZ]

So the guy with a multiple cameras on his car taking pictures of other peoples licenses plates without their permission does not want you taking pictures of his car? BS, but looks like he did not make a major case about it.

Yeah I do not think private companies should be allowed to use them, but with out any laws in place to prevent it we cannot stop it.


Oh, yeah the CVPI is slow compared to the Tahoe PPV. I had a Dodge Magnum police with the HEMI for a month and it smoked the hell out of the Tahoe. It was so quick and being able to fully disabled ESP I had to sell it in fear I would rack up speeding tickets. Anyways, the CVPI is not very fast compared to modern police vehicles.

I like the idea of repo companies having them. People should pay their bills.


Private companies have our plates and locations all the time. Take red light cameras, automated tolls and general security cameras for instance. Our info is everywhere, but then again so is the criminals that we are looking for.


The CVPI was a dog, but the V6 Charger I'm driving now isn't much better either.

 

[cybercop]

I wish we had some because we get so many stolen vehicles down here being used for human smuggling. Of course we don't realize it's stolen until the pursuit starts and they bail into a heavily brushed area. It would be an extra tool we can utilize.

 

[FatherOfFour]

The plate readers also takes a photo of every plate it reads and saves it to a database. You can go back to see when and where a vehicle was encountered.

See, and this is where most privacy advocates start to have problems with the system. I have no problem with catching stolen cars, amber alerts etc, but when you start creating a database with the movements of a population, that gets a little too 1984 for my taste. I'd have much less problem with it if it was a photo and forget system, if there is no hit on the plate why should the government maintain a database of that plate's location?

 

[Torpedo]

See, and this is where most privacy advocates start to have problems with the system. I have no problem with catching stolen cars, amber alerts etc, but when you start creating a database with the movements of a population, that gets a little too 1984 for my taste. I'd have much less problem with it if it was a photo and forget system, if there is no hit on the plate why should the government maintain a database of that plate's location?

I understand your concerns about big gov. however I like the technology. This system could will and does make shorter safer work of identifying hits and as for the database, just another viable and so far legal tool for leo investigations that may gain from it. It can go back and place the car at a time and place corroborating or not a person of interest's version. Private sector? I'm hot and cold on that.

 

[FatherOfFour]

I understand your concerns about big gov. however I like the technology. This system could will and does make shorter safer work of identifying hits and as for the database, just another viable and so far legal tool for leo investigations that may gain from it. It can go back and place the car at a time and place corroborating or not a person of interest's version. Private sector? I'm hot and cold on that.

I'd argue that just because it hasn't been ruled unconstitutional doesn't make it constitutional.


Look, I've got nothing to hide, but please explain to me where the government gets the authority to track my movements? Think about it this way, this technology is still relatively in it's infancy, but imagine 5-10 years from now when prices have come down to the point that entire fleets have this technology on them. It will be virtually impossible for somebody to conduct their life without the government having a record of where they were, and when they were there. So what happens when I go to the grocery store and the bank next door gets robbed, the local PD goes into their database, takes a list of all the plates that were in the area and then questions all those people? Why should I have to explain why I was in a public area to an official from the government? That doesn't even begin to delve into the possibilities for abuse of the system, say the jealous husband who wants to see where his wife is while he's at work, or the town Mayor (who exerts a TON of control over the PD, especially in a smaller town) who wants to know who his political opponent is talking to and where.


Like I said, I do understand the investigational benefits of a system like this, I just feel that the privacy concerns outweigh the benefits. Again, a read & dump system I would have much less of a problem with, it's the database that scares me.

 

[Torpedo]

I'd argue that just because it hasn't been ruled unconstitutional doesn't make it constitutional.

Look, I've got nothing to hide, but please explain to me where the government gets the authority to track my movements? Think about it this way, this technology is still relatively in it's infancy, but imagine 5-10 years from now when prices have come down to the point that entire fleets have this technology on them. It will be virtually impossible for somebody to conduct their life without the government having a record of where they were, and when they were there. So what happens when I go to the grocery store and the bank next door gets robbed, the local PD goes into their database, takes a list of all the plates that were in the area and then questions all those people? Why should I have to explain why I was in a public area to an official from the government? That doesn't even begin to delve into the possibilities for abuse of the system, say the jealous husband who wants to see where his wife is while he's at work, or the town Mayor (who exerts a TON of control over the PD, especially in a smaller town) who wants to know who his political opponent is talking to and where.


Like I said, I do understand the investigational benefits of a system like this, I just feel that the privacy concerns outweigh the benefits. Again, a read & dump system I would have much less of a problem with, it's the database that scares me.

All valid concerns. ...People do tend to abuse tools. We are a curious entity with selfish motives by nature imho.


Mint?

 

[RolnCode3]

Put on your tin-foil hats boys!


National Vehicle Location Service


For those eligible, it's a clearinghouse of ALPR data. My personal vehicle has already been hit 3 times by the local PD. You query a specific plate and it returns any ALPR data collected, if the agency participates in the service.

 

[coopers]

One of our cars has the FedSig ALPR system and it is great. I get a fair amount of hits and recoveries.