Case Against Congressman's Daughter Thrown Out

D

Donslockkey

That's nothing but bs. that's someone who knows someone up high getting charges dropped for polical reasons.
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
I understand the jurisdiction thing... been there, done that, similar situation... it sucks, but I think of it this way. It got them off the road for the night and how much did they fork out for the attn'y...


But, HGN not scientifically reliable... sounds like he's grasping at straws. HGN has been around for decades. For the one expert he might find for his defense, I'm sure there's plenty of other's for the prosecution.
 

RL1

Member
May 20, 2010
1,649
Ga
Wow. I've stopped people outside of the city limits a few times and I've seen others do it tons of times. Our Judge is a former defense att. and makes us jump through a lot of hoops (e.g. we have to yell 'stop, police' when someone runs from us or we can't charge obstruction for contacts other than traffic stops) and he will say our out of city stops are good. He says 'There is a state seal in the center of their badge for a reason. They are state certified officers. The law doesn't change because they pass a green sign.' As long as we are behind a car and see an infraction before they hit the limits, we can follow for however long we feel is needed. I've seen one of our guys go over a mile into the county because he saw a car fail to dim high beams and cross the center line. They went out of the city as he was catching up to them and he then followed and saw them almost stop at a green light, cross the fog line a few times, and weave. Judge said he was good to go.


On a side note, I don't think the story should have been on the news to start with. She's not the congress person, it shouldn't be made a big deal.
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
RL1 said:
As long as we are behind a car and see an infraction before they hit the limits, we can follow for however long we feel is needed. I've seen one of our guys go over a mile into the county because he saw a car fail to dim high beams and cross the center line. They went out of the city as he was catching up to them and he then followed and saw them almost stop at a green light, cross the fog line a few times, and weave. Judge said he was good to go.

But, the violation was "in" the city limits and the officer made the stop "out" of the city. See, that's fine here, do it a lot, as Farog butts right up against our east border.


The problem I had (went all the way to ND surpreme court) was a DUI stop. Called in by a motorist. Car passed thru my city on the interstate, but I observed a violation outside of the city. However, state law grants us a measly 1.5 miles ex-terratorial (sp) jurisdiction, meaning we still have jurisdiction 1.5 miles outside of the city. So, I follow guy and observe a violation about 1.2 miles outside of the city (I went out later on and measured it myself, but I knew where the 'barrier' was). I knew exactly where I saw the violation, but the prosecutor was never able to present any scientific data as to location and distance in court, kept being objected to. So, without any hard evidence, the case got tossed. Sucked, but you win some, you lose some. From that incident, and time I'm outside of my city jurisdiction, disregarding the 1.5 mile BS, I always get on the channel of the area I'm in and ask whoever if they want me to stop the car or continue to follow. If they ask me to stop, they're basically asking for mutual aid, and their jurisdiction extends to me.


And people wonder why I think DUIs are a PITA... :? :roll:
 

RolnCode3

Member
May 21, 2010
322
Sacramento, CA
rwo978 said:
But, the violation was "in" the city limits and the officer made the stop "out" of the city. See, that's fine here, do it a lot, as Farog butts right up against our east border.


The problem I had (went all the way to ND surpreme court) was a DUI stop. Called in by a motorist. Car passed thru my city on the interstate, but I observed a violation outside of the city. However, state law grants us a measly 1.5 miles ex-terratorial (sp) jurisdiction, meaning we still have jurisdiction 1.5 miles outside of the city. So, I follow guy and observe a violation about 1.2 miles outside of the city (I went out later on and measured it myself, but I knew where the 'barrier' was). I knew exactly where I saw the violation, but the prosecutor was never able to present any scientific data as to location and distance in court, kept being objected to. So, without any hard evidence, the case got tossed. Sucked, but you win some, you lose some. From that incident, and time I'm outside of my city jurisdiction, disregarding the 1.5 mile BS, I always get on the channel of the area I'm in and ask whoever if they want me to stop the car or continue to follow. If they ask me to stop, they're basically asking for mutual aid, and their jurisdiction extends to me.


And people wonder why I think DUIs are a PITA... :? :roll:
I totally understand why you're saying these things.


There should only be one reason we lose DUI cases: We can't prove they were drunk when they drove.


All of these procedural issues and jurisdiction issues are complete and utter BS. The citizens of your state should be outraged that this 1.5 mile rule exists, or at least that it prevents successful prosecutions where that is the ONLY issue raised. Your State's POST and the cities and counties need to find a better way to deal with jurisdictional boundaries (or create MOU's with surrounding agencies that permit official activity beyond the 1.5mile boundary). There was no legitimate reason that those officers should have that case dropped.


I only made my first DUI arrest on Memorial Day this year. Definitely technical, but I find myself having fun while investigating them. The walk-and-turn is the only test I hate watching as there's sooo much going on at once that it's tough to get everything down. HGN is a slam dunk.
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
RolnCode3 said:
All of these procedural issues and jurisdiction issues are complete and utter BS. The citizens of your state should be outraged that this 1.5 mile rule exists, or at least that it prevents successful prosecutions where that is the ONLY issue raised. Your State's POST and the cities and counties need to find a better way to deal with jurisdictional boundaries (or create MOU's with surrounding agencies that permit official activity beyond the 1.5mile boundary). There was no legitimate reason that those officers should have that case dropped.

All the other ND LEOs and I completely agree. Our license says "ND Peace Officer", not "'your city/county' Peace Officer". To get rid of this whole 1.5 mile thing would take legislative action. And, I'm sad to say, the legislature of ND is not LEO friendly. We've tried to change so many things, but we're stuck in the "small town, small state" mentality. I'm sorry, but ND needs to get with the program. It's 2010, not 1970. We've tried to change the state fee/fine schedule I don't know how many times, and it keeps getting voted down.


For example, 10 MPH over the limit is a measly $10. Christ, that's just pathetic. Where's the deterance there?? We have almost 0 municipal court now for infractions, because it's easier for people to just pay the fine and it's not worth it to take of time from work to save $10. When fines changed over a year ago as a result of Sauby vs. City of Fargo, the whole 'home rule/charter' went out the window and fines resorted back to the state schedule. Now, I'm in full agreement that Fargo went overboard, charging MN rates for tickets ($100+ for 10mph over), but there needs to be a happy medium. Pre-Sauby, my agency charged $25 for 10 mph over. Even that, I still think is a little low. My previous ND agency, it was $40. I thought their fines were about perfect. Enough to bite a little, get compliance, but not enough to be insane. Anywho, most of the SOs have been on the state schedule for years. The whole fine schedule had been brought to the legislature at least twice that I can remember, and each time... bubkiss. "We're ND, small town... remember??" And people wonder why there's so many reckless/aggressive drivers. When they are caught, it's not even a slap on the hand, it's a slap on the pinky... :? :evil:


/rant
 

joe p

Member
May 21, 2010
50
Indianapolis, Indiana
Here it doesnt matter if i am in my beat, the next city over, the next county over, or all the way up in Gary. A LEO in the state of indiana is a LEO in the entire state of Indiana. And with the new computerized E-Ticket system we have in the cars if you change the county it resets everything to go to where the ticket needs to go. Its just a PITA for them to get a subpoena to you though. It doesnt matter what your uniform says, or what your car says.
 

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