Coaxial Install Help

[calebsheltonmed23]

First of all, I've been installing for a few years now, and I know what I'm doing as far as drilling, mounting, attaching to the radio, etc. However, I've always bought pre-made cable, so I don't know how to make a cable. I have plenty of coax ready to use, but I am wanting to learn how to install the ends (for the antenna and for the radio). Is there a video on how to do this, or can someone explain it? Or video them doing it? I have higher end crimping tools for wires (aka. Not all in one)...will these work? I don't know anyone who knows how other wise I would ask them.. I have used the search function here and on google and have found nothing that helps me.


Example:


Laird Tech MBOX [MBOX] - $8.95 : The Antenna Farm, Your two way radio source

 

[theroofable]

You wont get a good crimp on the antenna connector unless you have the proper crimping tool. You have to strip the insulation and shielding back to stick that through the skinny hole on the top, and crimp that. The bottom part you crimp a metal shaft to the insulation and shielding. The nmo end you have to solder. I always get them with the premade nmo part and just crimp on the connector, they sell them like that. You also have to watch because sometimes the coax wont fit with the antenna connector you use, it can be too wide. Hope that helps!

 

[Steve0625]

You wont get a good crimp on the antenna connector unless you have the proper crimping tool. You have to strip the insulation and shielding back to stick that through the skinny hole on the top, and crimp that. The bottom part you crimp a metal shaft to the insulation and shielding. The nmo end you have to solder. I always get them with the premade nmo part and just crimp on the connector, they sell them like that. You also have to watch because sometimes the coax wont fit with the antenna connector you use, it can be too wide. Hope that helps!

For Caleb,


If you're going to be crimping Mini UHF connectors onto RG-58 cable, you will want to pick up the right crimper. If you already have a rachet crimper that will handle interchangeable dies, find yourself a die that has 0.213 hex for the barrel of the connector and 0.068 or 0.069 hex for the center pin. There's a couple of different ones available with other dimension crimps. I just ordered one that also has 0.042 square for the center pins of SMA connectors.


Like theroofable, I usually order the NMO mounts with the coax already soldered on and then crimp on my own connectors. When you buy the connectors, be sure to get them in the right size for the coax you're using. RG-58 is most common for vehicular installs, but there are others. NMO mouints are most common for vehicular antennas. The most common are sized for a thin steel roof and come with about 17' of RG-58 coax. They do make NMO's for thicker roofs - I've seen them up to 1" thickness. You can't always find the thick panel NMO bases with the coax attached so you may want to learn how to solder the coax to the mount at some point.


The Mini UHF connectors are pretty standard for Motorola radios, but there are other connectors used for other radio's manufacturers. Check before you order parts to be sure. Most connectors have specs listed for them so you can know what crimp die sizes you'll need up front.

 

[Steve0625]

First of all, I've been installing for a few years now, and I know what I'm doing as far as drilling, mounting, attaching to the radio, etc. However, I've always bought pre-made cable, so I don't know how to make a cable. I have plenty of coax ready to use, but I am wanting to learn how to install the ends (for the antenna and for the radio). Is there a video on how to do this, or can someone explain it? Or video them doing it? I have higher end crimping tools for wires (aka. Not all in one)...will these work? I don't know anyone who knows how other wise I would ask them.. I have used the search function here and on google and have found nothing that helps me.

There's lots of videos on youtube that should help. Just search over there on crimp coax and you'll find them.


What kind of coax do you have there? For two-way radios, there's only a few types that you can use. RG-58 is pretty common for most of what you'll encounter in public safety radios for cars and trucks. Base radios is a much different story so ask before you get into them.


NMO antenna mounts are nearly a de facto standard for automotive use and can be used with everything from low band up to 800 MHz. But you may encounter others. Again, ask before getting too far into anything that doesn't use an NMO. Somebody here will likely have experience that they can share with you.

 

[tvsjr]

You should also understand that terminating coax improperly can result in poor communications (either continuously or intermittently) or a damaged/destroyed radio. That's not to tell you not to learn how - we all have to learn sooner or later. But find someone who can help and advise you, and buy a pile of cheap connectors and coax for practice.


This is definitely a case where tools cost money for a reason. DO NOT buy cheap crimpers. If you expect to be doing the same exact coax/connector combination many times, you should look at the Paladin coax strippers. They take some work to get tweaked properly, but they can save you a lot of time vs. trying to do the work with an X-Acto and electricians scissors.


At a minimum, check your connectors for continuity between the center pin and ground (should show infinite resistance/open - no antenna attached). Even better, use an antenna analyzer. The $300-ish MFJ analyzers are better than nothing. Personally, I use a Tektronix NetTek (which a piece of Real Gear, with a Real Price Tag to match) and store the plots of every antenna/coax system installed. When things get flaky, it's nice to re-sweep the antenna system and compare to the results following initial install.


My one request - please don't put your first connector install job in a piece of emergency equipment. Get some practice and have someone who's done it before review your technique.

 

[calebsheltonmed23]

You wont get a good crimp on the antenna connector unless you have the proper crimping tool. You have to strip the insulation and shielding back to stick that through the skinny hole on the top, and crimp that. The bottom part you crimp a metal shaft to the insulation and shielding. The nmo end you have to solder. I always get them with the premade nmo part and just crimp on the connector, they sell them like that. You also have to watch because sometimes the coax wont fit with the antenna connector you use, it can be too wide. Hope that helps!

Sounds like it would be easier just to buy it pre soldered. I can solder decent but I don't do it enough to invest in a good iron. And it is helping!

For Caleb,

If you're going to be crimping Mini UHF connectors onto RG-58 cable, you will want to pick up the right crimper. If you already have a rachet crimper that will handle interchangeable dies, find yourself a die that has 0.213 hex for the barrel of the connector and 0.068 or 0.069 hex for the center pin. There's a couple of different ones available with other dimension crimps. I just ordered one that also has 0.042 square for the center pins of SMA connectors.


Like theroofable, I usually order the NMO mounts with the coax already soldered on and then crimp on my own connectors. When you buy the connectors, be sure to get them in the right size for the coax you're using. RG-58 is most common for vehicular installs, but there are others. NMO mouints are most common for vehicular antennas. The most common are sized for a thin steel roof and come with about 17' of RG-58 coax. They do make NMO's for thicker roofs - I've seen them up to 1" thickness. You can't always find the thick panel NMO bases with the coax attached so you may want to learn how to solder the coax to the mount at some point.


The Mini UHF connectors are pretty standard for Motorola radios, but there are other connectors used for other radio's manufacturers. Check before you order parts to be sure. Most connectors have specs listed for them so you can know what crimp die sizes you'll need up front.


There's lots of videos on youtube that should help. Just search over there on crimp coax and you'll find them.


What kind of coax do you have there? For two-way radios, there's only a few types that you can use. RG-58 is pretty common for most of what you'll encounter in public safety radios for cars and trucks. Base radios is a much different story so ask before you get into them.


NMO antenna mounts are nearly a de facto standard for automotive use and can be used with everything from low band up to 800 MHz. But you may encounter others. Again, ask before getting too far into anything that doesn't use an NMO. Somebody here will likely have experience that they can share with you.

Around here we use VHF high except the HP which used lowband, but I won't ever touch that. I would go ahead and assume RG-58 since it's the most common, but I'm not 100% sure. I will definitely look on YT for some videos. I wasn't sure how to phrase it when I googled it so I used a couple different terms and nothing pulled up. lol And I do not have ratchet crimper but it has been on my lost of tools to get.

You should also understand that terminating coax improperly can result in poor communications (either continuously or intermittently) or a damaged/destroyed radio. That's not to tell you not to learn how - we all have to learn sooner or later. But find someone who can help and advise you, and buy a pile of cheap connectors and coax for practice.

This is definitely a case where tools cost money for a reason. DO NOT buy cheap crimpers. If you expect to be doing the same exact coax/connector combination many times, you should look at the Paladin coax strippers. They take some work to get tweaked properly, but they can save you a lot of time vs. trying to do the work with an X-Acto and electricians scissors.


At a minimum, check your connectors for continuity between the center pin and ground (should show infinite resistance/open - no antenna attached). Even better, use an antenna analyzer. The $300-ish MFJ analyzers are better than nothing. Personally, I use a Tektronix NetTek (which a piece of Real Gear, with a Real Price Tag to match) and store the plots of every antenna/coax system installed. When things get flaky, it's nice to re-sweep the antenna system and compare to the results following initial install.


My one request - please don't put your first connector install job in a piece of emergency equipment. Get some practice and have someone who's done it before review your technique.

Yeah, I am aware. I don't wanna screw up my radio! lol.


Thank you every one for the help!!!

 

[RyanZ71]

Whatever you do, don't cheap out on the crimping tools. It is CRITICAL to have a good quality crimper. Putting coax connections on is a lot like soldering. The more you do, the better you become. Be patient and practice.

 

[ryanm]

Pulse/Larsen has some pre-terminated cable assemblies with FME connectors, and then they sell FME to whatever adapters.


http://www.pulseelectronics.com/download/3785/asb_11


NMOKHFUDFME is the cable kit i have used.


Adapters are on page 44 of the ASB pdf. They are a LITTLE harder to run, but a lot easier in not having to do a connector (for someone not used to attaching them). They work great most places unless it's a console with very little clearance behind the radio. They require about an extra inch over a normal crimp connector, in my experience.

 

[Jarred J.]

crimpconnectors work. soldered are better.


also not only should you test pin to casing but in the event you soldered or crimped both ends test pin to pin and case to case to make sure it made contact.


adapters and connectors cause a 0.03% loss per connector


what the hell does vehicular mean?


Ive heard of vehicular homicide but i dont drive a vehicular. i dirve a vehicle or automobile or car...

 

[calebsheltonmed23]

Whatever you do, don't cheap out on the crimping tools. It is CRITICAL to have a good quality crimper. Putting coax connections on is a lot like soldering. The more you do, the better you become. Be patient and practice.

Ok, thanks!

Pulse/Larsen has some pre-terminated cable assemblies with FME connectors, and then they sell FME to whatever adapters.
http://www.pulseelectronics.com/download/3785/asb_11


NMOKHFUDFME is the cable kit i have used.


Adapters are on page 44 of the ASB pdf. They are a LITTLE harder to run, but a lot easier in not having to do a connector (for someone not used to attaching them). They work great most places unless it's a console with very little clearance behind the radio. They require about an extra inch over a normal crimp connector, in my experience.

I'll look into it!

crimpconnectors work. soldered are better.


also not only should you test pin to casing but in the event you soldered or crimped both ends test pin to pin and case to case to make sure it made contact.


adapters and connectors cause a 0.03% loss per connector


what the hell does vehicular mean?


Ive heard of vehicular homicide but i dont drive a vehicular. i dirve a vehicle or automobile or car...

lol. Okay...Thanks everyone for the help!! I may just find someone show me how sometime...this is getting more difficult as I dig into it! lol

 

[tvsjr]

Pulse/Larsen has some pre-terminated cable assemblies with FME connectors, and then they sell FME to whatever adapters.
http://www.pulseelectronics.com/download/3785/asb_11


NMOKHFUDFME is the cable kit i have used.


Adapters are on page 44 of the ASB pdf. They are a LITTLE harder to run, but a lot easier in not having to do a connector (for someone not used to attaching them). They work great most places unless it's a console with very little clearance behind the radio. They require about an extra inch over a normal crimp connector, in my experience.

This is the lazy way, and means you have to introduce an adapter... that's more loss and one more thing to fail.


Anyone who says that good connectors must be soldered is probably old. Modern crimp technology, when used properly, is as reliable if not more reliable than a soldered connector.

 

[Jarred J.]

crimp connectors are NOT more reliable than soldered on. i have had MANY crimp ons just fall off from cb and scanner coaxes back when i did cb. (and they were company manufactured coax)


any REAL HFer or any operator who plays with microwave will NOT use crimp ons. Crimp ons arent even made for hardline.


but were not talking Amateur radio here...


i already stated the adapter loss issue. also "90's" or angled adapters as well.

 

[ryanm]

This is the lazy way, and means you have to introduce an adapter... that's more loss and one more thing to fail.

Anyone who says that good connectors must be soldered is probably old. Modern crimp technology, when used properly, is as reliable if not more reliable than a soldered connector.

Yes, but when changing out radio types / scanners / whateverelse often, it's nice to not have to keep cutting off the connector and attaching a new one.


It's also easy for inexperienced people.

 

[tvsjr]

crimp connectors are NOT more reliable than soldered on. i have had MANY crimp ons just fall off from cb and scanner coaxes back when i did cb. (and they were company manufactured coax)

any REAL HFer or any operator who plays with microwave will NOT use crimp ons. Crimp ons arent even made for hardline.


but were not talking Amateur radio here...


i already stated the adapter loss issue. also "90's" or angled adapters as well.

Well, I guess I'm not a "real" operator... been a ham for 23 years (got my Novice at 6)... have installed more connectors than I care to count in all manner of locations - the vast majority of them crimp, not solder... and I can count the failures on one hand.


Solder has its issues too - especially when people use it like "glue". Solder only provides an electrical connection, not a mechanical one... if you rely on it to do so, it will fail. How do you get a strong mechanical connection through the four holes of a PL259 connector barrel? Quick answer, you can't.


Real microwave operators use waveguide - which is almost always clamp, not crimp nor solder. Crimp connectors aren't made for hardline? Really? Check this: eCatalog - Wireless and Radiating Connectors


That's RFS/CommScope's catalog of all their hardline connectors (excluding connectors for braided coax and for waveguide). Of 160 products, 13 are solder. The rest are crimp, clamp, ringflare, etc. - none of which use a bit of solder. Half of the ones that are solder are bulkhead connectors where there is little choice but to solder (although this is changing over time), and the largest feedline these connectors fit is 1/4".


Go look at basically any commercially produced coax jumper or product featuring coax out there today. I bet you'll find the connector is a crimp, not solder.


In short - "this is how we've always done it" is poor justification for continuing to do something that way. Crimp connectors are every bit as good and in many cases superior to their soldered-on bretheren. Yes, poor install technique and cheap tools can lead to problems - but this affects soldered connectors just as much as it does crimp or any other style.

 

[Ben E.]

Solder is non-existant on any connectors in a modern day commercial radio installation. Even on the giant 2"+ diameter heliax coax that comes into the grounding ladder from the entrance panel has screw/clamp connectors. They take forever to put on and have a ton of internal parts compared to a standard connector, but they're not soldered or welded. As Terry also stated, REAL microwave uses waveguide with clamp connectors. The lines are also pressurized and dehydrated.


I have a special stripping tool that goes on the end of a drill for 7/8" heliax that cost about $90. Those connectors are super fun to install. Not difficult, but more time consuming than I'd like, especially when you have to work around a grounding ladder near an entrance panel and you only have about a foot sticking out to manipulate.

 

[theroofable]

crimp connectors are NOT more reliable than soldered on. i have had MANY crimp ons just fall off from cb and scanner coaxes back when i did cb. (and they were company manufactured coax)

any REAL HFer or any operator who plays with microwave will NOT use crimp ons. Crimp ons arent even made for hardline.


but were not talking Amateur radio here...


i already stated the adapter loss issue. also "90's" or angled adapters as well.

I have never had a connector pull off from being crimped on, and have never had to go back for one pulling off. And I put on more than one per day at work.

 

[Jarred J.]

crimps are used "in mass" because you can make more than one in an 15 minute time period.


My elemer has a WAS award on 2 meters. he used SILVER soldered connections on his contacts for EME. crimps and any other soldered would melt due to the heat from the aps running through them.


Every "elmer" i've talked to refuses to use crimps. thsoe guys have been hams 40 plus years...


the "mechanical" connection of coax is the spacer used when screwed down on the seal. i can yank on a soldered connection all day and now have it slide off with no damage unlike crimps.


everybody has their own preferred methods. and their are more than one way to skin a cat so we'll leave it at that.

 

[tvsjr]

crimps are used "in mass" because you can make more than one in an 15 minute time period.

My elemer has a WAS award on 2 meters. he used SILVER soldered connections on his contacts for EME. crimps and any other soldered would melt due to the heat from the aps running through them.


Every "elmer" i've talked to refuses to use crimps. thsoe guys have been hams 40 plus years...


the "mechanical" connection of coax is the spacer used when screwed down on the seal. i can yank on a soldered connection all day and now have it slide off with no damage unlike crimps.

Which sounds more like the "we've always done it this way so it's good enough" justification, not an actual comparison on the merits of the two installation methods.


Plus, we aren't talking about some multi-KW EME station here. We're talking about a 50-100 watt mobile radio. I'm sure the connectors, fittings, and hose we use for 1-3/4" attack lines wouldn't work so well for a 48" high pressure water main, either.

 

[kb4mdz]

crimps are used "in mass" because you can make more than one in an 15 minute time period.

My elemer has a WAS award on 2 meters. he used SILVER soldered connections on his contacts for EME. crimps and any other soldered would melt due to the heat from the aps running through them.


Every "elmer" i've talked to refuses to use crimps. thsoe guys have been hams 40 plus years...


the "mechanical" connection of coax is the spacer used when screwed down on the seal. i can yank on a soldered connection all day and now have it slide off with no damage unlike crimps.


everybody has their own preferred methods. and their are more than one way to skin a cat so we'll leave it at that.

And every radio shop that I've worked in for the last 25 years has been doing connectors with crimps. UHF/SO-239, BNC, N, Mini-UHF, TNC. Combination of accuracy & repeatability and speed. Sure, I can still solder a mean connector if I have to, but when I do it, I'm about 10 times slower, I still run the risk of loss of precision & accuracy, and a cold solder joint, etc.


Proper strip tool for the particular cable for correct stip-lengths.


Proper crimp too for the connector & cable. No, a pair of slip-joint or water-pump pliers is not proper. Yes, I have seen it, too many times. FAIL. Hexagonal crimp on outer ring, correct diameter hexagonal crimp on the center pin.


Run the crimper thru its full cycle of ratchet & release, once.


As far as hardline & connectors, I can't think of any one of the companies that doesn't have a 'tooling system' to properly prepare & attach, via either a crimp mechanism or some other sort of capitvated pin mechanism.


And whyinhell are you yanking so hard on connectors? They not supposed to bear any physical load, other than maybe their own weight of a short length of cable.


Now, on the other hand, yes, if I am building a Kilowatt-plus level EME station for 2M. or 430 MHz, and I'm trying to wrest every last dB of loss out of the system, I might make hand-soldered connectors, I say might. But I'd also set up a little assembly line process so I could do them perfectly repeatably, by the dozens. Craft & artisanship have their place.


With all due respect to your "elmers" , someone can be an elmer and still not have the proper clues about some things. I'm trying to not be a jerkwad here, but if you want, I'll give you my credentials & you can decide if they stack up against your elmers.

 

[gallagher073]

Pulse/Larsen has some pre-terminated cable assemblies with FME connectors, and then they sell FME to whatever adapters.
http://www.pulseelectronics.com/download/3785/asb_11


NMOKHFUDFME is the cable kit i have used.


Adapters are on page 44 of the ASB pdf. They are a LITTLE harder to run, but a lot easier in not having to do a connector (for someone not used to attaching them). They work great most places unless it's a console with very little clearance behind the radio. They require about an extra inch over a normal crimp connector, in my experience.

FME is how I buy all my antennas, small enough to fit though most grommets in firewalls and if my needs ever change I can buy another FME adaptor for 3 bucks. Not to mention you don't have to worry about the quality of the crimp.

 

[Jarred J.]

And every radio shop that I've worked in for the last 25 years has been doing connectors with crimps. UHF/SO-239, BNC, N, Mini-UHF, TNC. Combination of accuracy & repeatability and speed. Sure, I can still solder a mean connector if I have to, but when I do it, I'm about 10 times slower, I still run the risk of loss of precision & accuracy, and a cold solder joint, etc.

Proper strip tool for the particular cable for correct stip-lengths.


Proper crimp too for the connector & cable. No, a pair of slip-joint or water-pump pliers is not proper. Yes, I have seen it, too many times. FAIL. Hexagonal crimp on outer ring, correct diameter hexagonal crimp on the center pin.


Run the crimper thru its full cycle of ratchet & release, once.


As far as hardline & connectors, I can't think of any one of the companies that doesn't have a 'tooling system' to properly prepare & attach, via either a crimp mechanism or some other sort of capitvated pin mechanism.


And whyinhell are you yanking so hard on connectors? They not supposed to bear any physical load, other than maybe their own weight of a short length of cable.


Now, on the other hand, yes, if I am building a Kilowatt-plus level EME station for 2M. or 430 MHz, and I'm trying to wrest every last dB of loss out of the system, I might make hand-soldered connectors, I say might. But I'd also set up a little assembly line process so I could do them perfectly repeatably, by the dozens. Craft & artisanship have their place.


With all due respect to your "elmers" , someone can be an elmer and still not have the proper clues about some things. I'm trying to not be a jerkwad here, but if you want, I'll give you my credentials & you can decide if they stack up against your elmers.

credentials just mean you can follow someone elses standards....


as i stated there are many ways to skin a cat...


when pulling precrimped connectors through body panels.... they break... nuff said.