Crowds Attack Police Officer.... Again

unlisted

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 20, 2010
7,333
NA
I'm sorry but WTF is wrong with that area?? I don't hear of sh!t like this going down in other parts of the USA..
 

cory y

Member
May 21, 2010
1,614
time for a nice large raid of the area.. clear out some warrants... drug possession, weapons possession
 

cory y

Member
May 21, 2010
1,614
have the swat team start to set up right in the middle of the area. and have patrolcars on the exit streets... anybody who leaves gets pulled, checked, and searched.
 

1911

Member
Jun 8, 2010
66
Indonesia Java
Are US cops allowed to fire warning shots? Like a shock therapy kinda thing? I know some countries justify police officers firing warning shots into the air, before actually shooting the suspect.
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
1911 said:
Are US cops allowed to fire warning shots? Like a shock therapy kinda thing? I know some countries justify police officers firing warning shots into the air, before actually shooting the suspect.

Depending on dept policy, most do not allow this.
 

cory y

Member
May 21, 2010
1,614
And thats one less round to send downrange.


and what happens to the bullet fired into the air? it comes down. if it strikes and injures somebody guess what... lawsuit.
 

TheZach

Member
Jun 5, 2010
316
Kalamazoo, MI
The other side of the story.....

KALAMAZOO, Mich. (NEWSCHANNEL 3) – A Kalamazoo Public Safety Officer says he found himself the target of an angry crowd when he responded to a car crash Thursday night.

The incident took place Thursday evening after 9:00 pm at the corner of West Patterson and North Rose Street.


The officer responded to the scene of a minor accident, but says when he arrived a group of about 60 people gathered around the scene and started throwing rocks at him.


No one was hurt in the incident, and other officers came to break up the crowd.


The driver that caused the crash ran away, and police say they don't know why the crowd started throwing rocks in the first place.


On Friday Newschannel 3 sat down with the Chief of Public Safety to see what's being done to ease the tension between officers and the community.


Chief Jeffrey Hadley says he's not sure what to make of the incident.


“It's baffling to me,” said Chief Hadley. “The folks doing the rock throwing didn't have anything to do with the accident.”


About a month before the incident on Thursday night an officer attempting to make an arrest on the east side of Kalamazoo also encountered a large group, that encounter ended with people smashing out the windows of a cruiser.


The Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety has been trying to alleviate some of the tension through community policing. They say youth violence was down 20 to 30 percent in 2009, but Thursday night's incident highlights continuing frustrations.


“We are doing multiple programs to alleviate distrust,” said Chief Hadley, “more specifically youth and law enforcement. It is distressing to me.”


Some of those who live in the area however paint a much different picture of Thursday night's incident.


Deaunka Dunning says she knows why people were upset. She claims the officer got out of his car with his gun drawn, and that there were no rocks thrown at all.


The different scenarios highlight some of the tense relationships that continue to exist.


Kalamazoo City Commissioner Stephanie Bell says it's going to take awhile to change the culture. She says if rock throwing happened, she doesn't condone it. Still, she says people remain frustrated by incidents that they see as police crossing the line.


“Young people are saying enough is enough, not going to be mistreated,” said Bell.


Pastor Milton Wells heads up an east side church, Open Door Ministries. He says folks need to take responsibility for their behavior.


“It takes a whole community to police itself,” said Pastor Wells.


Pastor Wells says if there is an issue with police, the solution doesn't involve throwing rocks.


“Question is, what do I need to do, so many times, if I act a certain way, many times that change starts with me,” said Pastor Wells. “If we are behaving in a responsible manner, there is no reason to fear the law.”

http://www.wwmt.com/articles/style-1377 ... -span.html
 

Jasonc

Member
May 29, 2010
99
obx nc
cory y said:
And

and what happens to the bullet fired into the air? it comes down. if it strikes and injures somebody guess what... lawsuit.


That's a myth...same thing about the coin being dropped from a tall building...they have a very low terminal velocity due to air resistance.
 

cory y

Member
May 21, 2010
1,614
That's for a round fired vertically. A round fired on a ballistic arch will maintail its force over a longer distance.
 

11b101abn

New Member
Jun 10, 2010
549
Georgia, United States
1911 said:
Are US cops allowed to fire warning shots? Like a shock therapy kinda thing? I know some countries justify police officers firing warning shots into the air, before actually shooting the suspect.


Warning shots are bad. Period.


Most country's LE cannot hold a candle to the training and tactics that American LE uses.
 

Stendec

Member
May 21, 2010
816
11b101abn said:
Warning shots are bad. Period.


Most country's LE cannot hold a candle to the training and tactics that American LE uses.

American LE is based on theories developed in Europe before we were a country, and our first police agencies were those of the countries colonizing us. There are nations that put their cops through years of training, while we still generally have less training hours than the average plumber.


We aren't bad, but we aren't in a position to gloat either.


And yeah, warning shots are bad, often prohibited by policy, and come with the responsibility of buying everything they touch.
 

StriketheBox

Member
May 23, 2010
220
Midwest USA
Jesus Christ. they mulitply like gremlins. Cop was gutsy going hands on in a vehicle occupied like that. Draw down and order out. Wait for backup. Man, could have been alot worse.
 

11b101abn

New Member
Jun 10, 2010
549
Georgia, United States
Stendec said:
American LE is based on theories developed in Europe before we were a country, and our first police agencies were those of the countries colonizing us. There are nations that put their cops through years of training, while we still generally have less training hours than the average plumber.


We aren't bad, but we aren't in a position to gloat either.


And yeah, warning shots are bad, often prohibited by policy, and come with the responsibility of buying everything they touch.







Show me a nation whoes training, equipment and tactics is on par w/ or more progressive than ours. Use Lapd, Lasd as the model.


It isnt finland, btw.


Canada, sure. In some regards they are identical.


Most European countries, no. Does that mean I dont respect many of them, no.


Before anyone gets all butt hurt, get over it. It's a debate. And dont assume I do not undertsand the origins of modern policing models and concepts. I do.


Not gloating, or bragging. Just basing my statement on my experiences and observations, and using general terms.
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
1911 said:
Are US cops allowed to fire warning shots? Like a shock therapy kinda thing? I know some countries justify police officers firing warning shots into the air, before actually shooting the suspect.

We could only under two conditions, one we were severely outnumbered by unarmed people, and we could discharge our weapon into dirt or grass, because if you shoot cement chunks will fly up and if you discharge into the air it could come down and hit someone. But most Law Enforcement Agencies don't allow for warning shots.
 

RJ*

Member
May 21, 2010
346
Finland
11b101abn said:
Show me a nation whoes training, equipment and tactics is on par w/ or more progressive than ours. Use Lapd, Lasd as the model.


It isnt finland, btw.

LAPD Academy: six months.


Finnish National Police Academy: two and a half years.


Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever you say.
 

unlisted

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 20, 2010
7,333
NA
RJ* said:
LAPD Academy: six months.

Finnish National Police Academy: two and a half years.
Not trying to "toss" fuel on the fire but here is Canada's standards (well at least in Ontario)

-Recognized law and security program at college- 2 years. (there is an accelerated 1 year offering, but its kinda... well.. its two years compressed into the span of 365 days, and you need a prior degree in another post secondary field.)


Offer of employment from a police agency- than: (and only after employment offer)


-Off to OPC (Ontario Police College) for intensive in house (24/7) 60 day course


(than for any additional training it ranges from 3 day courses all the way upto another 60 day course)


-Start off at police dept that offered employment as cadet/rookie, and directly supervised/mentored from anywhere between 6 months to 2 years. Average is about one year of mentoring.


Military police is a tad different, as is the RCMP. Unsure about central Canada and Western Canada training, but I am pretty confident it is set up pretty much the same way. (as once your a constable/peace officer in Ontario, you can transfer anywhere in Canada if you wish)


Overall, one would be looking at- average 3+ years of training/direct mentoring- at minimum. (unless you have a degree in another field)
 

cutiger

Member
Jun 11, 2010
370
SC
unlisted said:
Not trying to "toss" fuel on the fire but here is Canada's standards (well at least in Ontario)

-Recognized law and security program at college- 2 years. (there is an accelerated 1 year offering, but its kinda... well.. its two years compressed into the span of 365 days, and you need a prior degree in another post secondary field.)


Offer of employment from a police agency- than: (and only after employment offer)


-Off to OPC (Ontario Police College) for intensive in house (24/7) 60 day course


(than for any additional training it ranges from 3 day courses all the way upto another 60 day course)


-Start off at police dept that offered employment as cadet/rookie, and directly supervised/mentored from anywhere between 6 months to 2 years. Average is about one year of mentoring.


Military police is a tad different, as is the RCMP. Unsure about central Canada and Western Canada training, but I am pretty confident it is set up pretty much the same way. (as once your a constable/peace officer in Ontario, you can transfer anywhere in Canada if you wish)


Overall, one would be looking at- average 3+ years of training/direct mentoring- at minimum. (unless you have a degree in another field)
Dang lot of work just to work.
 

Stendec

Member
May 21, 2010
816
11b101abn said:
Show me a nation whoes training, equipment and tactics is on par w/ or more progressive than ours. Use Lapd, Lasd as the model.

LAPD? You mean the Rampart Scandal LAPD? The guys-leaving-in-droves because of the consent decree LAPD?


Seriously, those are both decent organizations, but they've had their problems, just as most agencies have had. But the RCMP, London Metropolitan, Singapore Royal Police, Israeli National Police, Hong Kong Police, or whatever the are called now, sundry police agencies in Germany, the Gendarmarie, they aren't slouches either.


LAPD has a really really good public image outside of LA because their administration played up to the media since the dawn of Hollywood, a lot like the Hoover FBI. Likewise, NYPD, though the spectacular success that New York has had in driving their crime rate down is really remarkable.


When it comes to SWAT tactics, training and equipment, various competitions have shown that most First World teams are pretty much evenly matched, the only significant difference is that American teams developed tactics and doctrine that spread to our military, and in Europe and Asia military teams spread doctrine and training into civil law enforcement.
 

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