Ecco blaze rotator speeds.

Eric2.0

Registered Member
Original poster
Jan 22, 2020
144
East Coast
I make way to many threads, so here's another

I have a brand new ecco Blaze Halogen, belt drive mini bar. I got to use it today in a snow storm and it is nice and effective. I did notice the left rotator seemed a bit slower than the right rotator, is this normal for the pattern? It's brand new so... It could just be me, but it looks a little slower than the other rotator, however when I stop it, both rotators seem to be in the same position, pointing the same, not one opposite the other. Seems like it's in sync. YouTube made my video crappy, but here you might be able to see what I am saying.

This stuff bothers me, lol... I can't accept anything but 100% running perfect

 

dmathieu

Premium Member
May 20, 2010
8,594
S.W. New Hampshire, USA
Every motor/rotator assembly will be ever so slightly different due to many variables. I'm assuming you have 2 motors. Those are actually pretty close. If 2 motors, this is not synchronized. I'm pretty picky this way also, but unless you have a sync product, you need to lighten up a little, LOL. No insult intended, I'm ribbing you.
 

JohnMarcson

Site Founder
Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,372
Northwest Ohio
Mechanical or electrical devices will not synch unless they are forced to do so by a specific mechanism. Belt or chain drive bars will synch the rotators and there are some rotators connected via a transfer axel between the motors. Those are sold in Europe mainly. Even a miniscule difference in speed of motor (electric motors vary) will desynchronize individual rotating attached devices within seconds.

Here is a video about how flashers that are not connected will never synch (same idea).


There are various speeds of rotators, but within those specs there are variations. A 90 fpm rotator might be 94, a 60 might be 67. These are dc motors, components will never be identical. These rotators do seem to be not quite the same speed, but not so much that I consider it defective or out of acceptable variation levels.

Your bar is normal.
 
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May 21, 2010
1,066
Minnesota
If they do not spin at the same speed then they are working perfectly. They are independent motors so they do their own thing. Since it is not chain driven or digital, they will not be perfectly matched. Temperature and mechanical resistance will also cause small a variance in speed. One producing 79 fpm vs 80 fpm will be noticeable when compared side by side but not to the naked eye.
 
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Eric2.0

Registered Member
Original poster
Jan 22, 2020
144
East Coast
I see what you all are saying.

I wonder how a bar like my MX7000 with 5 top section rotators(that are independent motors) keep in such harmony. I don't think I noticed any slower than the other rotators and the MX7000 has that really cool "follow each other flow" kind of pattern. I have no idea how to explain that t lol. Like if one rotator is a bit slower it doesn't seem like it would keep that pattern. Damn I'm sorry....hard for me to explain what I mean, lol

I tested my ecco blaze all day here in northern, ny snow storm! Our town made the world news! Hahaha it horrible out here.
The blaze worked real nice and I even used it to give caution for a car that was stuck in the middle of the road everyone trying to push it. It felt really good to help out with my car and light plus help push.it made me feel even more like going for it and becoming a volunteer in the F.D. I got a real sense of satisfaction today in that situation...it just felt nice

Well here is a glimpse of some action tonight with my ecco Blaze. I tellya in the day or night it's plenty Brite. These little minis are a great safety feature... And boy am I glad to be home right now

 

JohnMarcson

Site Founder
Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,372
Northwest Ohio
I see what you all are saying.

I wonder how a bar like my MX7000 with 5 top section rotators(that are independent motors) keep in such harmony. I don't think I noticed any slower than the other rotators and the MX7000 has that really cool "follow each other flow" kind of pattern. I have no idea how to explain that t lol. Like if one rotator is a bit slower it doesn't seem like it would keep that pattern. Damn I'm sorry....hard for me to explain what I mean, lol
The short answer is they don't. There is no pattern to the rotators in an MX or any other independent rotator bar unless they are microprocessor controlled like a vision. There are more of them and more mirrors in your MX7000 so you don't notice, but the pattern is just as (actually more) random. A two rotator bar makes it easy to compare the two rotators side by side. Your mini bar does seem to have a tad bit more speed difference than some, but you would not notice next to 4 other rotators. The human brain likes to compare things side by side. Once there are more than two similar things, especially moving things, you lose track. In fact you will start to see patterns that aren't there the more you look.
 

Eric2.0

Registered Member
Original poster
Jan 22, 2020
144
East Coast
My old Jetsonic I did an experiment. I blocked off two of the rotators from sight(domes off) and inspected two at a time. They really did seem to be at the same speeds to each other. When I look at the Blaze, it is noticible right away that one is a bit slower than the other. It's a great light, very bright in daytime.

Honestly if I payed full price for this(they go for like 164 for the rotator version) I'd be irritated. I got mine new in box on market place for 30 dollars, so I am not to irritated. I might pop the dome off and look things over.

I realize that none of the motors are exact same and some faster than others, but the difference I see in this blaze is unacceptable for me, if I payed full price for this. For what I payed I can live with it and it is totally effective for its purpose. I ran it all day in the snow storm yesterday.

Tonight I stopped and flicked it on and as expected, the left flash beam reflecting off the trees was noticible slower than the right flash beam. It's ok though I didn't pay a lot, just makes me question if I'd buy an ecco again. These are safety devices and I feel there is no room for cheapness here.
 

Lt.214

Premium Member
Silver Donor
May 21, 2010
571
Southwest Ohio USA
So as others have explained, independent rotators simply will not sync all the time, every rotation. I've used independent rotator bars in the past on my personal vehicle (in my volunteer days) as well as on emergency vehicles. I have had and used all the big name products in that time and I believe that their QC standards were tighter than standards now, especially since most mainstream warning lighting is LED. Without getting long winded, if a listed FPM was 95, for example, the QC dept would only accept motors that produced 95 to 100FPM. Now with rotating lights not nearly as prominent, the QC of ECCO may accept any rotator that produces say 130 FPM, without any ceiling standard. This may account for more "noticable" speed difference. Just my opinion. All and all for $30, the light is performing it's intended purpose.


Chris
 

Eric2.0

Registered Member
Original poster
Jan 22, 2020
144
East Coast
Now with rotating lights not nearly as prominent, the QC of ECCO may accept any rotator that produces say 130 FPM, without any ceiling standard.


Chris
Nah, I don't go for that excuse. They should just stop making rotators then or adjust the price. These were going for 200 plus. I'm lucky I payed 30 brand new.
 

JohnMarcson

Site Founder
Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,372
Northwest Ohio
Since we are beating this decaying horse before burying it (we are going to bury it right?), I will contribute some more ramblings. I'm not mad that we are still debating this super light-nerd topic, but I am surprised that people are surprised.

Whether you "go for" this "excuse" doesn't make it less true. In fact, the "excuse" is probably more of a reality. No one is excusing the practice, we are explaining how it happens. I get that rotators used to have tighter tolerances, I won't debate that. The key word in used to.12 vdc motors are likely supplied to ECCO from one of probably a handful of suppliers. The main quality control is on the motor company's side. ECCO's quality control is probably "does it rotate?". I will bet they aren't even accepting a range of speeds. They are likely accepting "work or no work". The number of customers that care is always going to be "not zero", but it is also going be less money to refund one lightbar than speed test motors. In the LED era these bars are an afterthought produced because the cost has not exceeded profit margin (after making it super cheaply) or because they think they will lose a market share that includes other products if the stop making it. At some point the cost will be more to make than the market share so will discontinue it. Look at the aerodynic. It was an iconic Federal Signal lightbar that some departments would still be buying. The cost exceeded the market share so they discontinued it. These ECCO bars seem expensive for what they are retail and that means they are reaching the end of their feasibility to produce. Corners will continue to be cut in order to make them as cost effective as LEDs. That will continue until they aren't feasible to make. That may be longer than expected, but only because of how cheaply made they will become (if they aren't already).

Cheaper motors, thinner plastics, cross-compatible parts from other products etc. will appear . As this happens (and is happening) they aren't going to hold up against a jetsonic that was a $900 "main product" in 1995. The later jetsonics were less than great too. Put a "last year rotator" jetsonic up against an early one. They didn't get brighter. At the end of the production runs of iconic halogen bars of all companies, they didn't hold up to their previous versions. The plastic "freeform" rotators in Code 3 bars were awful. Code 3 used to have more than two speeds of rotators that were sold by flash rate. The number of halogen options were almost overwhelming in the late 1990s. Near the end they were "fast" or "slow". Options were cut to reduce costs to keep producing a bar that held a market share, but only until they didn't need to.

Also of note is how rotators get their speeds. Many higher cost "speed specific" rotators were 9 volt motors running at 12 volts. They were being sold specifically for their speed and therefore customers were expecting a specific speed. When companies hung their hats on rotators speed was a very big part of marketing. The Vision series with its electronic speed control was a great example of that. The current halogen market is "yep it spins".

My wife reminds me constantly when we drive that "most people don't care about lightbars aside from whether they flash or not". Look at the garbage setups on everything from private to federal vehicles and the steps in the middle. If it blinks it works; and that includes LEDs. This is especially true in the amber "non-DOT system" market. Think about who buys this bar. It is mostly private snow plow and maintenance contractors. If it turns on, blinks, and (in this case) melts snow, then it's fine.

ECCO is now owned by Clarience Technologies, take a look at their holdings. I cannot stress how little they care if their least profitable oldest technology is within surgical tolerances. Code 3 (ECCO) used to make the industry standards for rotator bars; used to. It really doesn't matter what the pickiest of their customers who buy lightbars for their collections think. It matters that they sell enough to either make money or lose the calculated amount of money allowed to keep an "adjacent" product line running.

tldr; We care about rotator speeds in current production halogen mini lightbars. Almost no one else does, including the people using them in the field and the few companies still making them.
 

Eric2.0

Registered Member
Original poster
Jan 22, 2020
144
East Coast
Burried, lol and a mod can delete this if they want. I have too many threads.

I sold the blaze to a buddy for his plow truck he loves it. He had a cheap Walmart one, but now he got a severe upgrade lol. It looks right at home on his plow truck
 

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