Factory upfitting of police vehicles

[Sigma Safety]

Hi all,


I'd be very interested in hearing feedback from professional upfitters on this board re: factory upfitting of police vehicles. By that I mean Ford supplying Ready-For-The-Road packages, etc.


What we've experienced here is that quite a few of the police agencies are ordering these pre-done packages on their vehicles. That means that the customer buys very little from us. Whereas they used to buy a complete vehicles' worth of stuff from us, now it's basically a lightbar (and prisoner cage, etc). We lose the corner LEDs, siren, siren speaker, and all the other 'stuff' that Ford puts in the vehicles, which amounts to a loss of a couple thousand dollars of revenue per vehicle.


Thinking longer term, do you see this as a threat to upfitters in general? It's not just Ford, but Dodge and to a lesser extent, GM as well.


If you agree that this is a threat, then how do we counter this?


Thoughts welcome. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum.


Thanks.

 

[ryan]

This is a great topic for many reasons..


As of last week, one of my best customers ordered a new police interceptor utility. Now of all the cruisers in their fleet, I have supplied everything including the lettering and decals. The spec for the new cruiser to us is...Whelen justice, setina pro cell, stop sticks and a fire extinguisher. I lost roughly $4000 of equipment and labor for this 1 vehicle. I asked why the change. They said because Ford warranties this stuff for 5 years. Just take it to the garage and they fix it for free. So I am also loosing out on service calls down the road as well.


Times...they are a changing boys!

 

[Jamey@NNE]

I agree. Plus just the installed wiring makes people think any hack can do an install so professionals loose out till the customer looses a lot having to redo mistakes.

 

[twodogs603]

Problem is I bet most mechanics at a dealership dont have a clue how to troubleshoot warning equipment. And when they cant, just charge the customer that ends up bringing it to you a hefty repair fee. .

 

[Kent@MoveOverOutfitters]

This is a great topic for many reasons..

As of last week, one of my best customers ordered a new police interceptor utility. Now of all the cruisers in their fleet, I have supplied everything including the lettering and decals. The spec for the new cruiser to us is...Whelen justice, setina pro cell, stop sticks and a fire extinguisher. I lost roughly $4000 of equipment and labor for this 1 vehicle. I asked why the change. They said because Ford warranties this stuff for 5 years. Just take it to the garage and they fix it for free. So I am also loosing out on service calls down the road as well.


Times...they are a changing boys!

My thoughts here. Yes we could lose a bit up front but make it a chance to sell yourself. An example of this would be the factory stuff is costly and many times they dont even know what they are getting. Consultations with them prior to orders would also give you the option to explain that many times it is actually harder (more money) to work around the factory systems than if you just install the product to begin with. Also most of this is no good for transfering to another vehicle, this means they will have one car life cycles so more repeat costs for them. And to combat the 5 year warranty, make yours a lifetime warranty. Think about it, what is a lifetime anyway, 3-5 years plus you cant warranty their abuse which Ford wont do either I assure you. I bet your labor cost is much cheaper for those out of warranty things as well. My opinion would be to make a nice flyer to send out to your customers to let them know what you will be doing to help them during this confusing change from the manufacturer.

 

[Sigma Safety]

My thoughts here. Yes we could lose a bit up front but make it a chance to sell yourself. An example of this would be the factory stuff is costly and many times they dont even know what they are getting. Consultations with them prior to orders would also give you the option to explain that many times it is actually harder (more money) to work around the factory systems than if you just install the product to begin with. Also most of this is no good for transfering to another vehicle, this means they will have one car life cycles so more repeat costs for them. And to combat the 5 year warranty, make yours a lifetime warranty. Think about it, what is a lifetime anyway, 3-5 years plus you cant warranty their abuse which Ford wont do either I assure you. I bet your labor cost is much cheaper for those out of warranty things as well. My opinion would be to make a nice flyer to send out to your customers to let them know what you will be doing to help them during this confusing change from the manufacturer.

A couple thoughts on this;


1) Not all agencies care about cost first. We had a large agency here order 30 cars from Crown all pre-built (with everything on the cars - and I mean everything). It was significantly more expensive, but their main thing was getting the cars on the road in time, not the cost. They didn't want to wait 6 months for the cars to get outfitted locally.


2) The Ford RFTR package is pricy but not horribly so. I think it's about $3000 for the package (cencom, speaker, corner LEDs, rear window LEDs, etc. - all installed). Now, if you go in to buy parts later at the Ford dealer, they're 3x what we would charge (vertex for $285 - seriously?).


3) The 5 year warranty is on the parts and labour, not just the labour. You wouldn't want to put a lifetime warranty on the parts you install, would you? However, I can see a lifetime labour warranty as you're right, that's really about 3-5 years max for most police vehicles (but be careful with fire, as they can keep vehicles for 10+ years).


You're correct that Ford has no idea about troubleshooting these items. Bringing your Ford-equipped police car into Ford means a couple days of mechanics scratching their heads over it, then 4-6 weeks to get parts to fix it.


Note that the Ford warranty on their Ford-equipped parts is 5 years/100,000miles for the LEDs, and 2 years / 36,000 miles on the speaker;



" LED Limited Warranty: 5 years/100,000 miles. Siren Speaker Limited Warranty: 2 years/36,000 miles. See your dealer for details. Police Interceptor ® Packages are covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty of 3 years/36,000 miles except where noted."




Does that last line (3 yrs/36,000 mi) mean that other than the LEDs and speakers, the rest of the Ford-upfitted parts only have a 3 year warranty? How long does it take for a police car to chew through 36,000 miles? A year or maybe 2 max? That's a pretty crappy warranty, if that's the case.

 

[K9Vic]

You all know that Kerr Industries is a full turnkey installer of all the factory police equipment on the Impalas and Tahoe police vehicles where all police & SSV vehicles are shipped to them to install the police equipment. The spotlights are not installed at the factory like it was on the CVPI (At least I believe it was by Ford at STAP) and most all other equipment . They also work on the fleet Suburban/Yukon XL and pickups in addition to all that fancy electronic stuff on the Escalades. So GM has full turn key options for their Tahoe and Impala, not just Ford. Sure it will take some business away, but all the installers I see locally are always packed with vehicles in their shops doing installs.


Kerr Industries Limited


They will setup and install police equipment as a factory option, but that is installed by Kerr Industries. This video I took is an example of the SUVs being sent back to the GM factory after Kerr did their install work, notice the Tahoe with a lightbar on it and the Escalade.

 

[Sigma Safety]

Thanks - Yes, I was using Ford as an example, but GM and Dodge do the same thing.

 

[emtanderson51]

I am guessing that since we are a large Ford dealer, this is the reason this is all news to me. We have yet to receive anything remotely pre-built from the factory. We do get our cars with the factory Vertex holes in the HL/TL and the wiring accessories, but everything else is done here, in-house, including paint and graphics. Our large contracts also require the equipment manufacturers to supplement the warranties on their products.

 

[ryan]

Steve, thats the difference between a large multi state company such as your self, compared to smaller companies. I offer everything from front to back, top to bottom lightbars to graphics. But sometimes agencies see "factory warranty" or they can include the items in their financing of the cruiser and these all do make ideas change in purchasing agents heads.

 

[kitn1mcc]

My Friend has a small local install. Nights and weekends and he does a alot of cars and other vehicles. the new Prebuilt cars make it soo much Easier. he does everything radio to lights and MDT now he can do an extra car and still do a very nice job.

 

[HILO]

You all know that Kerr Industries is a full turnkey installer of all the factory police equipment on the Impalas and Tahoe police vehicles where all police & SSV vehicles are shipped to them to install the police equipment. The spotlights are not installed at the factory like it was on the CVPI (At least I believe it was by Ford at STAP) and most all other equipment . They also work on the fleet Suburban/Yukon XL and pickups in addition to all that fancy electronic stuff on the Escalades. So GM has full turn key options for their Tahoe and Impala, not just Ford. Sure it will take some business away, but all the installers I see locally are always packed with vehicles in their shops doing installs.

Kerr Industries Limited


They will setup and install police equipment as a factory option, but that is installed by Kerr Industries. This video I took is an example of the SUVs being sent back to the GM factory after Kerr did their install work, notice the Tahoe with a lightbar on it and the Escalade.

Very correct!


Kerr has been doing 'factory' options for decades now. Going back to the Caprice and and 3rd gen B4C Camaro. The majority of factory PPV and SSV featurs and options are done at Kerr. It is a somewhat strange process. A Tahoe is built at the factory, then trucked 5 miles to the Kerr shop where wiring, spot lights, and anything more ordered like cages, lights, consoles, and push bumpers are installed. A Tahoe PPV rolls off the line without spot light holes, or any package wires ran.


All the special things like DVD players, and screens are added to the high end SUVs at Kerr.

 

[Sigma Safety]

I am guessing that since we are a large Ford dealer, this is the reason this is all news to me. We have yet to receive anything remotely pre-built from the factory. We do get our cars with the factory Vertex holes in the HL/TL and the wiring accessories, but everything else is done here, in-house, including paint and graphics. Our large contracts also require the equipment manufacturers to supplement the warranties on their products.

That's likely the reason why you are not seeing the Ford factory upfit packages roll in to your dealership - because you do them there and make more money on them than if you ordered the Ford packages. You can build them in-house at your dealership and offer warranty support, spares, etc. For dealers that don't have an in-house upfit shop, the factory upfitting allows the car dealer to make more money off the vehicle and they sell it to the customer as easier, factory warranty, and all pre-installed for quick turnaround time and consistent wiring, etc.


For those of us who are independent distributors/installers of equipment, the Ford packages really hurt us, possibly to the point of putting us out of business if we are overly dependent on the police vehicle market (as opposed to Fire, who doesn't seem to get these packages). There have been a number of large distributors who just completely refuse to service any factory upfitted vehicles. They might lose a bit of business initially but they're trying to make it difficult for the customer so they won't order the factory-upfit packages in the future.


Out where I am , none of the car dealers are in the upfit business, so it's up to independents like us to do the supply and sometimes installation of parts. With the car manufacturers moving that upstream to Kerr and other similar companies, it really hurts the local guys. It's not simply a 'smart' business shift for the car companies, but it hurts the customer because they can't get their vehicles serviced locally or have parts available quickly. I'm not sure about where you guys are all located, but most of our agencies don't have extra cars sitting around in case a car goes down for a few weeks.

 

[Sigma Safety]

My Friend has a small local install. Nights and weekends and he does a alot of cars and other vehicles. the new Prebuilt cars make it soo much Easier. he does everything radio to lights and MDT now he can do an extra car and still do a very nice job.

So how will he feel when his customers tell him they don't need him any more because the entire car is coming pre-built from Ford/GM/Dodge ? Thinking that the 'pre building' is great because it saves him time is silly. It's going to save him SO much time that his labour billing is going to be zero.


And if you think that will never happen, it's happening already. A major agency near us got 60 cars completely done by Crown. The department shipped Crown the radios and everything. Even the decals are getting done there. The cars will literally be rolled off the auto transport truck and will go into service that same afternoon. The only thing the department has to do is fill them with gas, put the laptop in the laptop dock, and go.

 

[Kent@MoveOverOutfitters]

So how will he feel when his customers tell him they don't need him any more because the entire car is coming pre-built from Ford/GM/Dodge ? Thinking that the 'pre building' is great because it saves him time is silly. It's going to save him SO much time that his labour billing is going to be zero.

And if you think that will never happen, it's happening already. A major agency near us got 60 cars completely done by Crown. The department shipped Crown the radios and everything. Even the decals are getting done there. The cars will literally be rolled off the auto transport truck and will go into service that same afternoon. The only thing the department has to do is fill them with gas, put the laptop in the laptop dock, and go.

Good things about this system:


-Easy


-Consistant


-Ready to go when they come off the truck


-Cost


BAD things about this system:


-Easy to have 60 cars built WRONG!


-Consistant from one tech to another in a large shop like Crown? Maybe, but unless its automated and the agency has no option on product then not likely.


-Ready to go when they come off the truck.... FIVE MONTHS LATER!


-Cost- Are they going to ship 60 cars back to get the stuff removed and reinstalled? Heck no, they will be selling it off for pennies on the dollar and buying new. That is never cheap


Its all in how it is presented. My goal is keeping my local customers happy. They all like everything one way and everybody wants to have something a bit different. I will take care of who I have and continue to grow through positive word of mouth. I have no interest in fighting with other companies and I am sure you guys feel the same.

 

[kitn1mcc]

i am talking about small town dept that maybe have 4 cars. also there other things besides police cars

 

[Wayne G]

Hi all,


I'd be very interested in hearing feedback from professional upfitters on this board re: factory upfitting of police vehicles. By that I mean Ford supplying Ready-For-The-Road packages, etc.


What we've experienced here is that quite a few of the police agencies are ordering these pre-done packages on their vehicles. That means that the customer buys very little from us. Whereas they used to buy a complete vehicles' worth of stuff from us, now it's basically a lightbar (and prisoner cage, etc). We lose the corner LEDs, siren, siren speaker, and all the other 'stuff' that Ford puts in the vehicles, which amounts to a loss of a couple thousand dollars of revenue per vehicle.


Thinking longer term, do you see this as a threat to upfitters in general? It's not just Ford, but Dodge and to a lesser extent, GM as well.


If you agree that this is a threat, then how do we counter this?


Thoughts welcome. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum.


Thanks.

Forgive the spelling, grammar and syntax. Not the best but build stuff I do very well.
At this time. ford read to go package. half and half. If you don't have to add anything then it's great. If you do add anything. It's not the best. If you add what the police normaly have you have to remove the sapphire and add the cantorler to the system which is bigger and the wire color are not matching.
problems.
1. if to service the siren which took me least than 10 minutes. You have to take the hole front end apart to get to it. 3 hours. then to test the unit. I have two port to access them on in front next to siren. the other at the box. you can do this.
2. hands free. the wire that they wish to you used is positive all the time until you honk the horn. then it give a ground. the opitated of the normal way. So you have to go to the horn which when honk it give you a positive. It took me two hour to figure out why the siren system was going south. So now you have to wire to the front.
3. power is not their. when you used the ford stuff it blow out fused. so I have to run main power to the battery.
4. fuse to figure out what and where. not easy. I used D&R fuse panel system to give me a central point to go to. not into the engine compartment or under the dash.
4. if you have to add a prision cage into this unit. you have to relocated the siren system. the outfits really didn't thing this though.
5. if you have to add stuff. you only have four more out puts. I need at least 8 more.

The good.
1. parkill wire is easy to get at.
2. Key voltage is easy to get at.
3. all the lights and tail lights are installed

The bottom line is if you wish nothing more the this is a good package. If you add anything.
add.
parkill have to run a wire.
hands free. have to run wire to front of vehicle horn. DON"T used the factory wire it doesn't work and cause problems
radio rebroadcast. have to run wire.
with out light bar
left alien. add wire
right alien. add wire
opticon. night mare add wire and figure were to go with the emitter
gun lock. add wire
passenger side marker add wire one each side.
prisoinor light. add wire.

Have not done one yet with light bar but.
The bottom line is if you have to add things it not going to be very pirty. A good installer will do it faster except for how pirty the light are done.