FD Problems With POVs

[fire9508]

My VFD is having problems with members going to scene with POVs and not stopping to operate or ride units to calls. I'm wanting to know how other dept or members would try to solve this problem.


Here a basic knowledge of my Dept. Volunteer dept, 28 members, 150 to 200 calls a year


Rural setting, Two station,chief, Asst Chief, 2 Captains, 3 Lts, 1 Safety officer. 3 Engines, 1 Equipment truck, 1 Ladder, 2 Tankers, 1 Brush, 1 Utility truck, 1 boat, 1 jetski.

 

[tsquale]

This is something that needs to be stopped by the Chief(s). A policy prohibiting such responses detailing consequences would probably suffice, so long as they follow through.

 

[rcfd34]

My old department would suspend personal to going directly to scene and would have to go to the station

 

[justavillain]

On my poc department you have to have a real good reason for driving to the scene.


With in reason. If all the appropriate apparatus are in service then it's different. Heck I was even scolded for pulling them in the wrong order. We had a Capt and Lt put on point at the scene for not fallowing sops.


It has to do with the officer staff making an sop/sog and setting the tone at a training night and putting someone on blast if they don't fallow the rules.


I get it and said it at an officer class with the big city who has some people who never knew anything other than big city that "if you go pov you usually get to go interior". So now we started putting the pov people as EOs, Ric ect and don't instantly reward them by getting to play firefighter

 

[massfirefighter]

Unless you're going to pass the scene on the way to the station, go to the station. End of story.

 

[rcfd34]

Well sometimes it makes no sense for personal to go to station like we're I live the stations on the north side of the disctrict I never went to the station ever I lived on the south most side of the district

 

[foxtrot5]

My department prohibits pov to scene for all but the most extreme scenarios. That being said, a neighboring department had a similar issue and revoked pov to scene for everyone except line officers. I believe their exceptions to that rule include if you must pass the scene and if all appropriate apparatus are already responding.

 

[fire9508]

Me being 1 of 3 LTs on the dept we have been having officers meeting. We are leaning to the officers only drive there pov to scene. Unless we are around the stations.

 

[Phillyrube]

Leave turnouts in the station?

No POV emergency lighting?

 

[jmccarthy]

Only thing we can slide by with running pov to is ems calls (volly dept with 24/7 paid ems staff) other than ems we have to respond to station unless we are passing the scene but those are the only 2 exceptions really.

 

[kitn1mcc]

Around here most Dept have an assigned driver to get the vehicle out and enroute (usually some one close to fire house).  

 

[Mattdecker]

On my dept most of us run pov to the scene, we carry our turnout gear with us, and the chief and asst chief grab the trucks. A little backwards I know but they live less than 2 blocks from the station. Occasionally one of the other members will grab a truck if the chiefs are busy or out of town.


A few, like me, run direct cause by the time we get to the station the trucks are gone.


Our policy is, go to the station first and if the trucks are gone, go direct. But if you get there and one of the trucks are there, grab it. If not, when the chief finds out, he is gonna chew your butt out.


We have 1 brush/rescue, a engine/tanker, an 2 other engines. We roll everything but the oldest engine.

 

[tsquale]

^^^Now that is backwards! But if it works, who am I to say otherwise.

 

[Mattdecker]

^^^Now that is backwards! But if it works, who am I to say otherwise.

Yup. It works for us. Ours is a city dept and only 3 members live in city limits. So we go with what we have.


Now don't get me wrong. We are one of the best depts in the county. We are just a bit backwards. Now with me, I have to go direct to the scene. I have no gear, no key to the dept. I have drivers training but not on our trucks. So I go direct and meet them there and start pulling hose or directing traffic or whatever. Lol.


I have a thread in the Action Shots of a fire we went to. I went direct there and did everything from hand water out to manning a hose. Probably shouldn't have manned a hose doing exterior attack with no gear but we were low on manpower. Didn't get to close but probably was a mistake anyway.

 

[kitn1mcc]

A lot of the dept around my area of ct only have or still get 2 seater trucks (conventional cab/trucks) and some one grabs the truck and goes

 

[Surgicalcric]

^^^Now that is backwards! But if it works, who am I to say otherwise.

It works for quite a few places, mostly rural. I don't get waiting to fill a truck with bodies when they can get to the scene faster than the station.


Not all SOPs work for all situations.

...We are one of the best depts in the county. We are just a bit backwards...

Who says you are backwards - if it works given the constraints in your area what makes it wrong?

 

[JazzDad]

There was a video on the Internet that I wish I had bookmarked.  It goes something like this-

Two guys show up at a residential neighborhood home, arriving in their POVs, in their street clothes.  They meet the homeowner at the curb and ask why he called.  He tells them that he just got home and saw smoke coming from the back of his house.  The frantic homeowner asks where the fire engines are.  The two guys say, 'Well, they ought to be here soon". 

Homeowner: Do something!

FFs: We can when the truck arrives.

And it goes on.

If anyone finds this video, share it.  I need some folks in my department to see it.

 

[sheazle]

We make all members (except select officers) keep their bunker gear at the station. If they get there and there are no trucks left, that is the only time to go POV.

The exception is medical calls, personnel with medical bags may run direct, although for serious calls we usually roll an engine for helicopter LZ.

 

[chief1562]

We go directly to the scene. We only have a few drivers and they live practically across from the station.

I'm currently getting a refresher in driving the rigs.

And it's also in our SOP's

We have an engine, tanker, and brush truck.

And our membership is at an all time low.

We just amended our response and mutual aide for the cad system for the 911 center.

 

[Pimp]

There was a video on the Internet that I wish I had bookmarked.  It goes something like this-

Two guys show up at a residential neighborhood home, arriving in their POVs, in their street clothes.  They meet the homeowner at the curb and ask why he called.  He tells them that he just got home and saw smoke coming from the back of his house.  The frantic homeowner asks where the fire engines are.  The two guys say, 'Well, they ought to be here soon". 

Homeowner: Do something!

FFs: We can when the truck arrives.

And it goes on.

If anyone finds this video, share it.  I need some folks in my department to see it.

 

[theroofable]

Ya beat me to it!  That was a funny series, they were trying to make a movie last year as I recall.

 

[JPolston]

We have a similar issue at times. Tends to run in cycles. Now we have a cycle of the dept we're dual toned out with for EMS runs(they supply their ambulance, which is about to change) ends up having half of their dept POV to our zone. That's after we have noted sufficient personnel 15 to 20 minutes before they even show up.

Anywho, as to the full point of this post. We have most of our officers scattered throughout our township. Also have quite a few firefighters scattered as well, but finally are getting more people in town. During some bad cycles, we have repeatedly been threatened that we will not be able to carry our turnouts with us, leaving officers only being allowed to carry theirs. We haven't had to enact that rule yet. Also, we do get our asses chewed if we pass the the firehouse to immediately POV to scene if apparatus has not rolled.

Honestly this is a hard thing to get done. The biggest rule to set is, ALWAYS go to station unless you're passing the scene in-route, OR the needed apparatus are in-route. If they don't follow it, keep their turnouts at station. If they don't follow after that, pull their light privileges. If they don't follow that, then obviously they have a problem with dept bylaws, and they need to be suspended.

What it comes down to is safety. If they're not following the rules that apply to safety, the FD could be slammed down hard by the laws. No ones wants that, because we all like our dept.s to have as much money as they can, not matter how little it is.

 

[CodeMan]

I dunno would you need this much just responding to a station?  Most here /not all /have their POV's set up like Dept owned vehicles that respond from the station to scenes. If your only responding to the station this would seem overkill IMHO. opcorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chTBwJIlZQI

But I guess if you have the spare cash lying around and the dept or the state doesn't have restrictions on the number of lights allowed on a pov, the more the merrier right?.. :undecided:  

I just remember the Florida volley FD I was a member of  limited the amount of lights to two (one rear facing & one front facing, My pov had a front facing dashlaser m & a rear single head deckmaster mounted to the left side rear window deck.

 Per this state statute:  316.2398 Display or use of red warning signals; motor vehicles of volunteer firefighters or medical staff.—

(1) A privately owned vehicle belonging to an active firefighter member of a regularly organized volunteer firefighting company or association, while en route to the fire station for the purpose of proceeding to the scene of a fire or other emergency or while en route to the scene of a fire or other emergency in the line of duty as an active firefighter member of a regularly organized firefighting company or association, or a privately owned vehicle belonging to a medical staff physician or technician of a medical facility licensed by the state, while responding to an emergency in the line of duty, may display or use red warning signals visible from the front and from the rear of such vehicle, subject to the following restrictions and conditions:

(a) No more than two red warning signals may be displayed.

( B)  No inscription of any kind may appear across the face of the lens of the red warning signal.

© In order for an active volunteer firefighter to display such red warning signals on his or her vehicle, the volunteer firefighter must first secure a written permit from the chief executive officers of the firefighting organization to use the red warning signals, and this permit must be carried by the volunteer firefighter at all times while the red warning signals are displayed.

(2) It is unlawful for any person who is not an active firefighter member of a regularly organized volunteer firefighting company or association or a physician or technician of the medical staff of a medical facility licensed by the state to display on any motor vehicle owned by him or her, at any time, any red warning signals as described in subsection (1).

(3) It is unlawful for an active volunteer firefighter to operate any red warning signals as authorized in subsection (1), except while en route to the fire station for the purpose of proceeding to the scene of a fire or other emergency, or while at or en route to the scene of a fire or other emergency, in the line of duty.

Sorry this went a little longer than I intended..

 

[dusty]

It should be easy. It was on my dept. Order it. Discipline those that can't follow orders.

 

[JPolston]

Honestly now, we have enough people showing up to dept. that we have been having to kick off our probies and tell them to pov to scene behind us if it's serious enough. We haven't had a POV problem other than our sister station not listening when we call sufficient personnel.

Being that we have a "light" heavy rescue, engine, tanker, grass rig, and a backup ambulance(soon to be our active one and we wont have to have dual tone out for EMS runs), we can get a pretty good response apparatus wise. The rest of the county, though, is horrible on their POVs.

 

[fire9508]

Only me and 4 other people run lights on our POV, CAR1 CAR2 CAR5 CAR6(me) CAR7. We are also the ones Running to the stations to get trucks because everybody else passes the station. I have to come from the other side of the district which is 7 miles from the main station and 5 to the substation. But theres firemen that live not even a mile from them and go stright to the scene

 

[firefighter7017]

Only me and 4 other people run lights on our POV, CAR1 CAR2 CAR5 CAR6(me) CAR7. We are also the ones Running to the stations to get trucks because everybody else passes the station. I have to come from the other side of the district which is 7 miles from the main station and 5 to the substation. But theres firemen that live not even a mile from them and go stright to the scene

You're POV's are labeled as Cars? Where in NC are you? I'd be interested in hearing how your department is setup.

We don't have a POV issue. All but two of our trucks only carry two people. We load up the required apparatus, bring some more if we need them, and everyone else goes POV. We do a lot of training on where to park POV's so they are out of the way due to how many we normally have on scene. it works well for us. We are a rural department averaging 500 calls a year with three engines, a squad, two tankers, and a brush truck running out of two stations. 

 

[fire9508]

You're POV's are labeled as Cars? Where in NC are you? I'd be interested in hearing how your department is setup.

We don't have a POV issue. All but two of our trucks only carry two people. We load up the required apparatus, bring some more if we need them, and everyone else goes POV. We do a lot of training on where to park POV's so they are out of the way due to how many we normally have on scene. it works well for us. We are a rural department averaging 500 calls a year with three engines, a squad, two tankers, and a brush truck running out of two stations. 

Yes only officers have car numbers, Im in Duplin County NC about 45 Minutes away from Wilmington 

 

[firefighter7017]

Yes only officers have car numbers, Im in Duplin County NC about 45 Minutes away from Wilmington 

Is that just your chief officers that can run full code or all of your line officers?

 

[fire9508]

Chiefs can full code lights and siren according to our SOP. But both chiefs run lights no siren for some reason.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

When I first joined this forum years ago, it blew my mind reading about pov response, especially a code response. State of Washington simply doesn't have this. Closest we have is, at the department's discretion, the law allows for vollies to run a green courtesy light for the sole purpose of responding to the station.


We just don't have much in the way of pov response here.

 

[mjMIff]

Our station is manned 24/7 by our officers so someone is always there to take out the first due.

Our area is split by down the middle by a road running east and west. If you live on the north and the call is in the south, you go to the station. Vice-verse... Once two people are at the station anyone else responding can go to the scene until the officer on scene advises he has enough members to handle the call then everyone still responding just goes to the station.

We do not respond code to the station unless we have another call and no one has arrived yet or for seond+ alarms on structure fires where we dump our station. We do respond code to the scene in our POVs.

Probationary firefighters are not allowed to drive apparatus or have lights/siren so they respond to the scene until there is enough members, regardless of where they live in relation to the call.

 

[Ben E.]

When I was on, our unwritten policy was that you were only to stop at the scene if you had to drive right by it to get to the station.  We did have some members that were on very outlying areas of our district that, if the call was nearby their residence, had permission to go direct to the scene or else they would miss a truck EVERY time.