Federal Signal Smart Siren SS2000 Wire Guage Recommendation?

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
Hi everyone, I was running the necessary wires to get ready for installing my SS2000. I noticed on Federal Sig. website that the minimum gauge wire is 10 for the power wire. Gr! I ran a 16 gauge to the battery.


I have a few questions.


Does the ground have to be 10 gauge or can I still use 16 gauge?


The manual says - "Is the black wire from the twelve pin connector (Pin 4)


connected to the fusible link at the front fender between the


negative (-) battery terminal and chassis ground? This is the


ONLY chassis ground allowed for this wire."


I don't understand where that wire goes and why it can't be grounded to the body of the car in the trunk.


Thanks in advance!
 

Abacus

Member
May 24, 2010
432
Sydney Australia
It's a fused negative circuit which is primarily just for safety. You can go directly back to the battery which most of us would do.


You are right that the main power wire has been undersized.
 

twodogs603

Member
Sep 7, 2011
1,196
Norfolk,VA
The recommended 10 gauge wire is the wire that provides power to your lighting equipment. The red wire in the main harness provides power to the siren box. 16 gauge is too small for either option.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
Okay, that's fine. I'll up the gauge.


I'm a little confused. Does that mean I need an inline fuse for both the positive AND the negative wires?


I used 16 gauge for the horn loop wire. Is that sufficient? :/.


I ran the wire from the trunk to a momentary switch in the dash and then back to the trunk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

C2Installs

Member
May 24, 2010
477
Tennessee
Relay board B+ feed should be minimum of 10g, but that is dependent on wire run length and should be rated for 125% or anticipated load. The relay board B+ feed provides the output power for the SS's slide switch and lower row of five buttons. Depending on what you are powering, up to the units max rating of 100 amps output (note, this is less than the output's total fused capacity of 130 amps) 10g may not be sufficient. Unless the SS will be running very low amp lighting, I recommend that your run 8g wire for the B+ feed to the relay board, primarily because you said the SS was trunk-mounted. Ditch the breakers that the unit comes with and fuse the feed at the battery.


The 12-pin harness's red wire requires a 20 amp feed. It is a 14g wire and the factory-provided length is usually more than enough to reach wherever it needs to go. Federal wants it on a switched feed, so don't run it straight to the battery. Either use an ignition-switched power source or install your own on/off switch. Note that Federal wants a feed that is powered in RUN/START, not just RUN/ASSY.


The 12-pin harness's black wire is also 14g (or a real heavy 16g...the insulation is thin relative to the wire and the other circuits. The factory-provided length is sufficient for most installs. If you need to extend it or any of the 12-pin harness wires, use same gauge wire (up to 20 feet of run). The green wire is a case ground and is on the older units only. Simply ground it at the install location and keep it as short as practical. I usually ground it to the mounting bracket hardware.


The horn ring on the SS is only rated for 2 amps, so 16g wire is certainly enough. Just make sure you aren't trying to directly power the horn on its post-relay side. If you, you will need to add an additional relay with a battery feed and use the SS to switch it.


Have fun.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
C2 - I'm trying to follow what you're saying, but I'm a little lost in the process.


This is my entire setup for the SS thus far. (Some of it hasn't been run yet, but I ordered the 10 ga. wire)


10 ga. red - 10-15' Power to battery with 50 AMP Inline Fuse (Aftermarket).


10 ga. blk - 10-15' Ground. I can ground it to the Neg. terminal on battery or a trunk bolt?


16 ga. blk - 10-15' Horn Loop wire going to a 20 gauge momentary switch in the dash.


16 ga. red -10-15' Whelen Speaker wire going to the trunk. Is that an okay size if Im running it the length of my car (10-15') to my trunk?


Pin 6 - 16 gauge wire to the Ignition On fuse box. Being that I tapped off an existing fuse in the box, I won't need to add an inline fuse.. I have a cig lighter in my trunk on 16 gauge wire. I'm going to just t-tap into that for the "ignition source".


I am ONLY using the built in siren / horn functions on the SS. Nothing else will be added.


Will this setup work, or do I need to order 8 ga. wire?


(UPDATE)


Talked to my installer who typically does all my car electronics, just not this time. He said 10 gauge should be fine.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EMT-BLS

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
2,640
Waterbury, CT
marker227 said:
I am ONLY using the built in siren / horn functions on the SS. Nothing else will be added.

If you are only using the system for sirens, then you only need to provide power to the harness. The power cable is only for lights and accessories.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
"The power cable is only for lights and accessories."


Which power cable are you speaking of?


I thought there was only one power cable.. The one that goes to the battery?
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
By the way, which pin number is for the siren/speaker? I don't see it on the installation manual. It just points to the entire wire harness and says "siren".
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
No reason to. All the wires I ran in the car already. I just have to splice and plug the wires into the harness. The manual wasn't too descriptive on the website. It doesn't show anything about a horn ring.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
I just had an installer try to wire in the power, ground and relay wire. He wired it backwards and completely melted pin 6.


Now what the hell do I do? Can it be fixed? He fixed the wires, and now the unit won't turn on at all.


I'm so pissed!!!
 

EMT-BLS

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
2,640
Waterbury, CT
Abacus said:
Might be best to get your installer to wire this unit up for you.

marker227 said:
I just had an installer try to wire in the power, ground and relay wire. He wired it backwards and completely melted pin 6.
I'm afraid this is a "I told you so" moment...No one believes that an installer is the one that did the work/messed up.

marker227 said:
Now what the hell do I do? Can it be fixed? He fixed the wires, and now the unit won't turn on at all.
Just try using a different harness. If that doesn't work, start checking fuses.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
No one said NOT to use an installer. I said I was going to finish it myself because I ran all the correct wires, etc.


The guy got confused and yeah switched pin 6 with 4.


Anyway, I'll go try it now and see what happens. Thank you for the quick response!
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
I just checked the unit. There are no fuses other than the ones for the "Accessories" and "Lights" inputs and outputs. None of those are used or popped.


The only thing I can see if the black thin wire coming off from inside the receptacle is melted


The power and ground wires are live. I checked them.


Any ideas?
 

C2Installs

Member
May 24, 2010
477
Tennessee
Just one idea...you're in over your head. Sorry, but the SS is one of the simplest units to install and wire. Not following your post that the instructions don't show the horn ring wiring...it's explained and diagramed with regards to relay use.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
I didn't wire the unit in. I left it to an installer and he ended up frying it... I knew how to hook up pin 4 and pin 6. That wasn't the issue.


I'm very familiar with wiring relays, and accessories. The one time I let someone else do it, it blows up in my face... Luckily he was willing to help me get another one.
 

twodogs603

Member
Sep 7, 2011
1,196
Norfolk,VA
Its possible that the circuit board could contain some kind of pico fuse, but Im not sure. It nothing works when you get it installed properly, thats some place to start looking.
 

EMT-BLS

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
2,640
Waterbury, CT
twodogs603 said:
Its possible that the circuit board could contain some kind of pico fuse, but Im not sure. It nothing works when you get it installed properly, thats some place to start looking.

The Smart Siren does have a Pico fuse, but the Pico is the fuse between the amp and keypad, not lighting/accessories.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
twodogs603 said:
Its possible that the circuit board could contain some kind of pico fuse, but Im not sure. It nothing works when you get it installed properly, thats some place to start looking.


It wasn't installed properly. My installer crossed the power and ground and the unit started smoking and there was a nice light show from the battery...


I honestly don't see the fuse. I looked over the entire unit and all I saw was accessory fuses.
 

EMT-BLS

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
2,640
Waterbury, CT
marker227 said:
It wasn't installed properly. My installer crossed the power and ground and the unit started smoking and there was a nice light show from the battery...

I honestly don't see the fuse. I looked over the entire unit and all I saw was accessory fuses.

Usually the release of the magic smoke from a SS means that it's dead. You can send it into Fed Sig, but it'd probably be cheaper to just pick up a used system.


And just in case it isn't clear for the future....red=power, black=ground. :thumbsup:
 

twodogs603

Member
Sep 7, 2011
1,196
Norfolk,VA
marker227 said:
It wasn't installed properly. My installer crossed the power and ground and the unit started smoking and there was a nice light show from the battery...

I honestly don't see the fuse. I looked over the entire unit and all I saw was accessory fuses.

Your installer crossed the power and ground? So there was no circuit protection (fuse) inline? I just dont know what I, or anyone else on here can say... :bonk:
 

MEVS06

New Member
May 23, 2010
3,485
San Antonio, TX
I had someone kill a lightbar before by crossing the wires, needless to say that was the first and last day he ever helped me with an install...


EMT-BLS is right, your siren is gone.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
Yeah, The 10 gauge power lead was correctly wired to the "+bat" inside the unit. He switched the 12V Ignition Switched Power with with the GROUND wire to the unit. Melted pin 6 and that area smoked a little. I checked those wires and power still goes through them, but the entire unit is just "dead".


I already ordered another one from this website. I'l just swap keypads and use the same wires... Luckily I found the wiring manual, so it won't be so much of a challenge this time.


I appreciate you guys being so friendly. I didn't appreciate it from a few other members who wouldn't offer any advice except that I had no idea what I was doing and to get an installer to do it.


Well, look who blew up my unit... The installer! :D .
 

C2Installs

Member
May 24, 2010
477
Tennessee
marker227 said:
Yeah, The 10 gauge power lead was correctly wired to the "+bat" inside the unit. He switched the 12V Ignition Switched Power with with the GROUND wire to the unit. Melted pin 6 and that area smoked a little. I checked those wires and power still goes through them, but the entire unit is just "dead".

I already ordered another one from this website. I'l just swap keypads and use the same wires... Luckily I found the wiring manual, so it won't be so much of a challenge this time.


I appreciate you guys being so friendly. I didn't appreciate it from a few other members who wouldn't offer any advice except that I had no idea what I was doing and to get an installer to do it.


Well, look who blew up my unit... The installer! :D .

Look, the issues I have are:


1. You asked for information that is clearly outlined in the manual. That info is sufficient for installation for anyone with a basic knowledge of automotive electrical and warning systems. If the manual is confusing, then 90% of the time the person confused should not do the work.


2. You stated that the horn ring info was not sufficiently detailed when in fact the manual has two illustrations relating to it as well as a 1/2 page of detailed instructions. Then you later post that you found it after you "looked for a while." It took me 15 seconds to find it looking over the instructions. This, and #1 above, leads me to conclude that you didn't RTFM. Or plan your install on paper before jumping in. No problem, I get that, but fess up if that's the case.


3. You take issue with folks who arguably give you the best advice...find a competent installer. This is based on experience and ultimately a desire for you to have the best possible outcome. Which, BTW, hasn't happened. My first reply answered your questions in detail and would have been sufficient for someone with the necessary electrical knowledge but for whom the SS system was new to them. I made no assumption or recommendation that you "get an installer." I reached that conclusion pretty quickly, just didn't post it.


4. Note that I said "competent installer." Whoever did the work you describe and fried your SS, be they real or imaginary, is not competent. That is an idiotic mistake, and would not happen if the installer had been diligent, used fuses, checked their work, checked it again, and checked it once more. It is inexcusable and, while it can and does happen at times, is solely the installers fault. Given that the installer made the mistake, it should be on them to fix or replace your siren. That's assuming they are a legitimate operation, that the wiring you did was not the problem, and that they in fact exist. IMHO, they are not a professional installer, hence your problem. If they are just a buddy who *thinks* they know what they are doing, and they were doing it for free...you got what you paid for.


5. The information you did get in this thread from me and others, while provided at no cost, was not free. It cost us to acquire and has been paid for over the years. Likewise, it is worth exactly what you paid for it. In exchange, we ask that you be honest with yourself about your capabilities. Take it or leave it, but understand it is provided with the assumption that you actually are capable of using it.


6. Your last post's comment that "Luckily I found the wiring manual, so it won't be so much of a challenge this time" strongly reinforces my suspicion that you didn't RTFM before beginning your project. The little image you linked to that shows an overview of the system's power wiring is just that. It is part of the final installation checklist provided by FedSig that should be gone over BEFORE powering the unit...to prevent smoke.


7. Still beating the horse here, but the manual is online and downloadable. How hard could it have been to "find?"


8. The Smart Siren is probably the most discussed system on this board, with regards to technical support questions. A search should have answered most questions. In fact, it would have located a link to that elusive manual.


I have a buddy in Jersey who does installs (Blue Line in Beachwood). I've been there and I know install work is pricey in that neck of the woods, so I understand wanting to save some cash. But next time you could have an issue that costs real money or damages your vehicle. If I sound like an ass with this post, I guess that is unfortunate. But we've seen lots of similar threads here...that's why the advice to use a pro is so liberally handed out.


No one here gets paid to give free info on the web. The (few) pros on this board who still bother to do it get nothing more than personal satisfaction out of it; I like to contribute to exercise my mind. But it takes time and effort. And often it is unheeded or unappreciated. This board is a resource, but only if you use it as such, even if the guidance isn't what you want to hear.


Again, good luck with your install. And the replacement siren.


BTW, if the siren failed as you describe, I would probably replace the unit's wiring harness (the 12-pin connector and its factory-provided lengths of wire) as well. The high amp load that reversing the power and ground could have caused might have compromised the integrity of the connector's pin retention feature and the wire insulation. I'm assuming you used the factory-provided 20A glass fuse at the 12-pin's red wire power connection. If so, the fuse holder is likely damaged as well.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
I have good news... I called Federal Signal and they said it's a flat rate of $75 or $100 depending on how old it was.. I wish I knew that before I bought another SS. Oh well, I didn't loose any money after I'll sell the one I currently have.


I also talked to the service department and they said 10 gauge is fine for 15 feet.


Waiting on my new unit to arrive now!


Cheers!
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
By the way, the green fuse was not blow. It doesn't matter now though. I'm just replacing the unit anyway.


C2Installs -I appreciate your last post. You are right, I didn't do enough digging in my research and my information was limited in being descriptive. When I found the 1st diagram, I thought that was the only one I needed for the wiring.


I trusted this installer because he is very familiar with wiring emergency lights on all kinds of vehicles. I should have done a little more research and finished it myself. I was trying to save some time, not money.


Thank you for those words. Won't happen again!
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
I just finished wiring up the new unit tonight. Works great!


I'm wondering how you can turn off the "beep" indicator, dim the display permanently (got it to dim temporary until I restart unit), as well as putting the unit into stand by mode so none of the buttons work except the horn ring.
 

hitman38367

Member
May 23, 2010
881
West Tennessee, USA
marker227 said:
I just finished wiring up the new unit tonight. Works great!I'm wondering how you can turn off the "beep" indicator, dim the display permanently (got it to dim temporary until I restart unit), as well as putting the unit into stand by mode so none of the buttons work except the horn ring.
Go to FedSigs website and download the programming manual. It will tell you how to do everything you are wanting to do.
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
I just read the manual again, I don't see any permanent way to disable the lighted keypad. I also need the programming module in order to turn on the horn ring. Sigh... I have to find that now.
 

hitman38367

Member
May 23, 2010
881
West Tennessee, USA
marker227 said:
I just read the manual again, I don't see any permanent way to disable the lighted keypad. I also need the programming module in order to turn on the horn ring. Sigh... I have to find that now.
I am a little confused. What exactly are you trying to do when you say that you are trying to disable the lighted keypad as well as placing the unit in standby except for horn ring?

My main question is what exactly are you wanting the unit to do or not do?
 

marker227

Member
May 11, 2013
28
New Jersey
My apologies, it's been a long day. I am not that awake at the moment.


I wasn't sure if it were possible to turn off the keypad light permanently. I found if you hit the Stand-By button the entire unit will dim, but after you press a key it lights back up again. I also wanted to know if I could turn off the "Indicator" beep via the keypad.


For some odd reason. I'm also not able to use my horn ring as instructed by Federal Sig. I was instructed that I may use a momentary switch connected to the White and White/Yellow wires and it would activate upon pressing it. I haven't had any luck yet. I will see if I can check the wires again tomorrow and call them.
 

hitman38367

Member
May 23, 2010
881
West Tennessee, USA
marker227 said:
My apologies, it's been a long day. I am not that awake at the moment.

I wasn't sure if it were possible to turn off the keypad light permanently. I found if you hit the Stand-By button the entire unit will dim, but after you press a key it lights back up again. I also wanted to know if I could turn off the "Indicator" beep via the keypad.


For some odd reason. I'm also not able to use my horn ring as instructed by Federal Sig. I was instructed that I may use a momentary switch connected to the White and White/Yellow wires and it would activate upon pressing it. I haven't had any luck yet. I will see if I can check the wires again tomorrow and call them.
From what I understand, the backlighting cannot be permanently disabled. The indicator tone can be disabled via the correct programming sequence as specified in the manual. The horn ring function can be activated by a momentary switch. You have to wire the incoming side of the switch to a power source and then wire the outging side of the switch to the white wire designated "horn" on the wiring harness. The wire stated "horn ring" will not be used due to the fact that you are not wired into the actual horn circuit and you don't have to send signal thru it to sound the OEM horn like the Tap II system is designed to do. Be sure to fuse the incoming side as you would any other power feed. For what you have said that you want to do, this is what I know to do to get you there. I am not a professional installer, I am just an old skool shadetree installer that has learned from his mistakes and owns a SS2000. If you cannot get the horn ring function to work after fiddling with it, please save yourself some headache and take it to a licensed, certified pro. I am sure there is someone on this board that is a pro and lives close enough that you can get to help you. Just my $0.02.
 

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