Feniex 4x6 pcb sneak peek

[Alex@Feniex]

I read some comments regarding why Feniex has not developed a larger platform lighting series. Just wanted to let you all know that the Feniex engineering team have been working on a 4x6 3x7 7x9 family for over 6 months now. First prototypes were finalized today. Here is a sneak peek of the 4x6 PCBA. This family product line is scheduled for release in first quarter of 2015. With the new technology jam packed into this product, it will be a market winner!

Now here is my million dollar question, would people pay double price for dual color for this series? Looking at a 4x6 from a leading competitor priced at $139, do you feel end users will pay $278 for dual color version (double the LEDs)? To our understanding a fire truck or ambulance is not limited in space, so if a client wants two different color 4x6's, then they would just order two lights? They may prefer to order 2 for the price of one to make the vehicle look more involved, right?

We have been battling with this question for some time. Any help here would be nice.

 

[paff2]

My opinion the market will be greater for single color and affordable. I realize there could be a market for dual color large lights but maybe not double cost.

 

[wilsonbr90]

If those are all luxeon rebels under those collimators that is going to be one bright a$$ light.


The market is there but I believe it will only be 15-20% of what the single color crowd will be.


From a selling point more in there physical possession for the same amount of money sells better

 

[TritonBoulder47]

You evil EVIL man!!!  Now I'll need to order new grill lights for my Durango...  lol

I'd lean more towards single color than all dual color...  But what about just the center row being dual color...?  Like all one color, and the center can have a flood light feature...?

Oh, also...

 

[Hoff]

I'll cast my vote and say that single color will probably have a much bigger market than the dual color... unless your Boulder. 

 

[acala91]

Dual color lights are cool but I feel that the majority of customers interested in those types of lights wouldn't be interested in dual color. 

 

[dusty]

I just switched an engine from Strobe to LED, and I'm about to do another. No way would I spend my dept's money on that. Single color for most apparatus is fine imho.

 

[TritonBoulder47]

I'll cast my vote and say that single color will probably have a much bigger market than the dual color... unless your Boulder. 

I didn't say have the whole head dual color...  Just the center row of LEDs...  Then the heads could still flash, but the center would be a steady white for illumination...  

 

[npfire9]

Single color is going to be your best seller. Dual color is cool, but not a big seller in the big oem market. Now if you can keep the price under what the "other" light makers sell their lights for. Your sell's will be higher. Brighter light for less money will win over buyers! Don't get to fancy, just build a better mouse trap!!

 

[Marc M]

Put them in a dash light format and I' m in. 

 

[MEVS06]

Put them in a dash light format and I' m in. 

Ummm thats what the Apollo is!!!

 

[unlisted]

I didn't say have the whole head dual color... Just the center row of LEDs... Then the heads could still flash, but the center would be a steady white for illumination...

Or go one step further- make the centre row independent of the top and bottom- white for scene/alley lights- with your tir optics. (bonus round if you make the optics end user selectable between spot and food)


I'd also consider doing something like fedsig did with their 900 series- make it a drop in module housing so an end user could have (in theory) two different rows of colors (and the white middle row)

 

[justavillain]

Would they have a lense over the entire board? If so a colored one would be great for apparatus. Clear more for Ambulance and maybe povs

 

[PJD642]

I'm in agreement that single color will sell in far greater quantity that dual color.  Now a split (half & half) would be very nice also, especially in a 7x3 format.

But more importantly, take that 6x4 you're holding and make it into two 4x3s!  That way I could upgrade the 400-series lights in my Freedom bar!  Especially if you made a spot version of a 4x3 for take down lights!

 

[pdk9]

+1 on single color. I don't think apparatus truly have a need for dual color perimeter warning (although some customers do and F@#K things up with horrible split fails!), & the price point would probably leave a lot of duo color inventory sitting on the shelves IMO

 

[dusty]

Or go one step further- make the centre row independent of the top and bottom- white for scene/alley lights- with your tir optics. (bonus round if you make the optics end user selectable between spot and food)


I'd also consider doing something like fedsig did with their 900 series- make it a drop in module housing so an end user could have (in theory) two different rows of colors (and the white middle row)

warning lighting converting to scene lighting would interest me.

 

[EVPP.COM / STLJN]

Wouldn't you be worried that the scene lights would drown out your warning lights?

 

[dusty]

I need to read outfit a rescue. The integrated spots are horrible. The warning lights are first Gen leds and suck. Putting in new warning lights that would allow us to convert to spots or floods on the incident side would be nice

 

[unlisted]

Wouldn't you be worried that the scene lights would drown out your warning lights?

Personally I think a double row of linear warning light will still shine through a (not always in use) tir single row of illumination light.


At worst you would probably see a darn good glow from the flash patterns of the warning light through the scene light.

 

[Marc M]

Ummm thats what the Apollo is!!!

I meant build a large dash light. 

 

[npfire9]

To add to my first post.

Color lens standard, clear an option

Build a NFPA flash pattern only lights. (75-150 fpm patterns) No split fail patterns, no pinwheel junk etc. Just SOILD only!!

Way not build a 2"x5"ish size lights head (whelen 500 size)

Then if this all works out well. I would love to see a 3"-4" tall lightbar (freedom size). I love the freedom, but someone needs to make whelen work a

little harder. Now days with the price the "bigs" want for lights, my little volley dept. can't afford to upgrade our out of date lighting.

One more thing a RB6 size led becon, $500 for a led becon is nuts!

 

[Knight90]

Alex, I continue to be impressed with the product designs but even more so with the fact you guys are willing to hang it out there and ask for feedback. Also the fact that you listen to the feedback to produce great products is why Feniex will be successful. Ok, enough with the cheer leading. As far as the single vs dual there is a valid argument for the single color heads as mentioned fire trucks have a lot of real estate. I look at it from a different perspective though as I have just finished installing apollos all over so I have to ability to press a button and have scene lighting from the same housing. I would put them on my trucks. Oh and +1 on the 3x4 and 2x5 lol.

 

[unlisted]

Alex, I continue to be impressed with the product designs but even more so with the fact you guys are willing to hang it out there and ask for feedback. Also the fact that you listen to the feedback to produce great products is why Feniex will be successful. Ok, enough with the cheer leading. As far as the single vs dual there is a valid argument for the single color heads as mentioned fire trucks have a lot of real estate. I look at it from a different perspective though as I have just finished installing apollos all over so I have to ability to press a button and have scene lighting from the same housing. I would put them on my trucks. Oh and +1 on the 3x4 and 2x5 lol.

how do the Apollos do as scene lighting?

 

[Knight90]

Very well. I have 4 in my grill stacked 2x2. I also have apollo 2Xs set to do the same thing.

 

[tsquale]

I will also state that I don't think the dual is going to be a big seller. A 900 series size lighthead would be nice to replace existing 900s directly.

 

[TACKLEBERRY]

I agree with the overall consensus here, that a single color lighthead would be a better seller then a dual color.


....now that being said I personally would love some dual color "dumb" lightheads to connect to a flasher. Our traffic units don't have lightbars and I'm thinking these (the 3x7) would be a nice replacement to the Whelen M7s . Blue in warning mode and steady burn white when the takedowns come on.

 

[strobecrazy]

+1 on single color for the larger heads. But would like to see dual on the 2x5 (500).

 

[OTFD122]

I know I would be a fan of a split head with independent control of each side.  Something like half red/half amber so that on scene I could switch the red off and run the ambers... Not necessarily a "dual color" head, but one with multiple colors/functions would be nice

 

[Brendan11]

+1 for the single color, dual colors would be a cool option, but I don't think they would sell nearly as much as single color.

 

[smackjack21]

Looks awesome! Please just make these have explicit NFPA compliance.  I just upgraded a bunch of Whelen 900 halogens to 900 LEDs for my FD, and they would not approve anything unless it was a NFPA 1901 compliant setup.  I think utilizing the same mounting dimensions or offering adapter brackets would also help steal market share from the big guys as well.  

Unrelated suggestion, can we please see a thicker lightbar? double stacked perhaps?

Keep up the great work!

 

[thekameleon]

Unrelated suggestion, can we please see a thicker lightbar? double stacked perhaps?

Keep up the great work!

I second that... My FD is looking at replacing some older sealed beacons and it would be great to have a 3 to 4 inch by 22 inch bar to replace it with... Hint hint, nudge nudge

 

[vonirkinshtine]

I don't care what you guys do.  I have a couple of your products installed and I love them.  As long as what you do is equivalent in function to a Whelen M-series, but cheaper, I'm all in!

 

[Kd8bao]

Unrelated suggestion, can we please see a thicker lightbar? double stacked perhaps?


Keep up the great work!

Feniex Cobra Mini double stack:

http://youtu.be/ut-uZjW15-U


Something like this...

 

[Eric1249]

The only lights on any of our trucks that are dual color are either halogen or strobes.  Anything new is a solid color led.  I would vote for a solid color.

 

[RecElect]

Seriously?? I am shocked no one thinks the dual colors would sell. I vote for Dual color Red/White 7x3s with independant control. I would use them all the time for grill lights in BC vehicles and fronts of fire apparatus. Red/white when responding, red when parked. Maybe 3 input so I can also use them as solid burn white as well but they would have to be a decent scene light, not just a rectangle of white light.

as far as price, I would never get double the price over a single color light head, but I could get more for it. I would say they would retail in our store for $180-$210 in dual color. no more than that...

In my opinion you should talk with fire apparatus manufacturers. We work with a few of them and it doesn't really matter the cost of the light when a department is building a $400k + truck. (it matters, but not as much to them as it does to the market this website caters to.)  That is why departments put on rediculous ammounts of lights and bells, and tredplates, and chrome features that are way overboard, and cost alot of money, they have huge budgets, and they spend it.

I look at it this way, Multiple manufactures have this size of lighthead. What gives you the competative advantage? How can you go to a major apparatus manufacturer and try to sell your light to them when it is just status quo. The "because it's brighter" thing is really only 10% of the battle. They want innovation, a slight cool factor, quality, availability, and life service.  Dual color is something no one has in this size of lighthead, and I think would be a great way to make fire apparatus buyers take a serious look at your products. 

Don't forget, this website is full people who have and use "small" vehicles and most likely wouldn't actually buy this size of lighthead anyway, especially since most of this market is so budget restrictive. This light is something for big trucks, fire apparatus, and ambulances, and I strongly say at least design it so it can easily be manufactured as dual color. 

Also, TEST TEST TEST. Seriously, Get control of your heat issues with your lightheads so they can steady burn without burning up... I love the cannon, but have had to forgo using them in a major fleet because we have experienced a few issues with heat even when they are flashing.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I am waiting for someone to offer a "ambulance size" lighthead that I can run white when responding and amber when in park.  I want to stop turning off those clearing the right of way white lights and make them switch to amber when in park.

 

[Solvarex]

I think the European market is a potential large customer for dual color lightheads. I recall reading somewhere that there was new legislation (passed, pending, or suggested?) that would require ALL emergency vehicles - fire, police, ambulance, etc. - to switch to alternating amber when parked on scene. The idea being that there is no need for blue while stationary as amber can be used for blocking ROW anyhow, and it assists in reducing rubberneckers looking for the pile of bodies and twisted wreckage, etc. A dual blue/amber head would be beneficial.

In several Canadian provinces they use blue/amber for snow removal, but must use amber in the summer. Whelen has several dual color blue/amber products specifically for this market.

I use dual color because only rarely do I need emergency lighting, but I don't want to waste the use of the lightbar so it can be switched to amber for non-emergency use. I will need a trailer soon that I want to do up in a similar fashion and dual color lightheads would be just the ticket as I quite like the Euro line of thinking regarding on scene colors and flash patterns.

 

[unlisted]

I still say do what I suggested before- do what another well known manufacture did with their 900 series light heads- use drop in modules to a frame/housing -unless they have that patented as well. Wouldn't surprise me considering what happened to the xexutor and 12q....


This would permit end users to select from a range of "boards" which would be more cost effective for feniex as a manufacturer. Basically make all the large lightheads a kit of sorts- frame and then select the light modules.


For modules offer single color, dual color options covering most of the common colors. (and don't forget green!!)


Also make scene lighting drop in modules as well so people could do a very large lighthead with true triple or even quad function. Two warning colors on one module and either scene (and another warming color) or just scene in the other spot.


Sorry for the long reply. Been heat shrinking for the past three hours. Fumes may of gotten to me.

 

[PJD642]

Just wanted to add a "+1" to the 500-series / 2x5 suggestions.  Would love to have those for the Liberty I'm building....

 

[Brendan11]

Just added to the Feniex Facebook page... Looking good if you ask me. 

https://www.facebook.com/168303959868194/photos/a.564756050222981.1073741826.168303959868194/880317858666797/?type=1&theater