Feniex Apollo Inner Lightbar Dual Color

[Nick@Feniex]

All,


Thought I might share another quick video Alex and I shot about an hr ago. Its the first pre-production Apollo Inner Bar. Engineering is now working on a set of 20 patterns. If anyone knows of some key patterns we should program please post a video or description for us to review and implement. Any direction from you guys would go a long way!

-Nick

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

Quad flash half and half.


I love the half and half patterns. (obviously probably better with single color version)

 

[MEVS06]

Can we get a single flash 75 alternating the right half of the bar against the left half of the bar and not so many seizure causing patterns.

 

[sheazle]

I've got a Pegasus and a bunch of Cannons and I love them, except for the flash patterns. with the Pegasus I make do with the half/half accelerator random and I swapped the wires on the takedowns so they flash on the opposite side. With the cannons I ended up wiring them to an external flasher. The built in patterns just don't have enough "dead" time, especially in the dual color master/slave modes it seems like they are always on. This may work for some people but in my situation it made them less effective, even though they are super bright.


So my request is more dead time in the patterns.


P.S. love the off-axis and dual color!

 

[TACKLEBERRY]

Is it going to have multiple mode wires like the Cannon, so you could have a faster pattern for response and a slower pattern while parked?


If so the Steady Flicker pattern is becoming huge here in the New England area, with MSP, RISP, and CTSP all going to it for night park mode. I've now seen a lot of interest from town/city police departments.

 

[acala91]

Use the Whelen Inner Edge XLP as an example for awesome flash patterns. Another neat feature that I'm sure wouldn't be difficult to incorporate is multiple flash modes. I.E a general pattern, then the ability to program a second pattern for when the vehicle is in park or when the piercer/phaser/priority tone of the siren is activated.

 

[911graphicsandlighting]

Should be a great interior bar

 

[JPolston]

I was going to bitch and complain because most dual color heads sacrifice a bit of brightness. Nevermiiiiiind.


Want one, whole-heartedly

 

[Flashguy]

I'll take that pre-production one as-is!! :thumbsup:

 

[TritonBoulder47]

[Broken External Image]:http://betterafter50.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg


Having a good variety of 1/2 & 1/2 flash patterns would be great, also some 4 section patterns... The option to have a "dumb" bar would be great too for people who want to use an external flasher...

 

[tvsjr]

I'm a big Whelen fan... but this bar is pretty cool. That said, the pattern you show in the video is basically useless, especially with the second color as white.


Keep in mind that not all of us care about using the second color for takedown. Some nice slow color-on-color patterns would be great - blue/red, red/blue... etc.


And don't forget the California steady-burn.

 

[TritonBoulder47]

I'm a big Whelen fan... but this bar is pretty cool. That said, the pattern you show in the video is basically useless, especially with the second color as white.

Keep in mind that not all of us care about using the second color for takedown. Some nice slow color-on-color patterns would be great - blue/red, red/blue... etc.


And don't forget the California steady-burn.

I don't think the video was displaying a "pattern" per say... I think it was more of a demonstration of the dual color and the light spread of the lightheads...


But yes, DEFINITELY steady burn on a couple heads (if heat build-up isn't too much)

 

[Q2bman]

Ya. Needs the ability to have a couple of mode wires at least. I use three modes. One per slide position. Slide one is two led pods steady one red and one blue. Mode two is a slow alternating pattern. Slide three is a sparkle pattern like quad or action flash for attention while running code 3. Also my whites flash only on three. That would rock to have that select ability.


Also, yes need to have the same pattern in different configurations like whelen does. Solid flash, half bar alternate, and checker. I like some rando patterns too. Maybe a half bar alternate sides swapping half red/blu with blu/red then a fast all bar red dark all bar blu.


Get creative. And it would be sweet if some company somewhere did research to actually prove with scientific data what pattern was effective. I like everyone else just guess. It would be cool to use test subjects that are not light nerds to record response times to patterns. I kind if do it. I have found a slow alternating pattern is ineffective to the front while moving but


Good stationary. And a rapidly flashing strobe like pattern works while moving. And slow alternating is always best to the rear. And dimming is for girls lol. Jk.

 

[Kent@MoveOverOutfitters]

The only thing that I ask especially for the rear pegasus style bars is


1) Include REAL and VEHICLE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS, you obviously had to install one to check its fit and function, TAKE PICTURES. I personally can figure it out but when I am drop shipping or selling cash and carry it drives me nuts.


2) Please include the machine screws in the package. I am not sure if you will be packaging them better than current pegasus stuff but I sure hope so. I have had one front and one rear bar come without some of the machine screws and thats pretty annoying.


The patterns that you include with the normal Apollo is alright with me. Maybe one to add would be (11111111111)... (22222222222)... (11111111111)... with and without dwell/off time in between

 

[Phoenix_Rising]

Off topic slightly, but Im still (anxiously, as are others Im sure) awaiting the exterior surface mount version of these, set a release date yet??

 

[911graphicsandlighting]

Off topic slightly, but Im still (anxiously, as are others Im sure) awaiting the exterior surface mount version of these, set a release date yet??

Still sometime in 2014 is all the distributors have been told

 

[jhallgren22]

Is it going to have multiple mode wires like the Cannon, so you could have a faster pattern for response and a slower pattern while parked?

If so the Steady Flicker pattern is becoming huge here in the New England area, with MSP, RISP, and CTSP all going to it for night park mode. I've now seen a lot of interest from town/city police departments.

I like this one! Plus its less distracting to drivers on the highway on our way home!

 

[bluestinger90]

Copy all of these;

 

[TACKLEBERRY]

...The option to have a "dumb" bar would be great too for people who want to use an external flasher...

Now there's an idea! With the release of user programmable flashers (i.e. Code 3 CELS, Whelen WeCan Module, Whelen CanTrol, and whatever the FedSig one will be called) a 'dumb bar' which we will be able to make our own patterns or download new one as they come available would be a great idea.


Wouldn't that also allow it to be used with the 8 output TA feature of the Feniex 4200?

 

[911graphicsandlighting]

Now there's an idea! With the release of user programmable flashers (i.e. Code 3 CELS, Whelen WeCan Module, Whelen CanTrol, and whatever the FedSig one will be called) a 'dumb bar' which we will be able to make our own patterns or download new one as they come available would be a great idea.

Wouldn't that also allow it to be used with the 8 output TA feature of the Feniex 4200?

It would be great to make a model that you could use the 4200 controller with and being able to sync with the avatar bar on flash patterns

 

[Nick@Feniex]

Now there's an idea! With the release of user programmable flashers (i.e. Code 3 CELS, Whelen WeCan Module, Whelen CanTrol, and whatever the FedSig one will be called) a 'dumb bar' which we will be able to make our own patterns or download new one as they come available would be a great idea.

Wouldn't that also allow it to be used with the 8 output TA feature of the Feniex 4200?

Although that sounds like a great idea it would be rather hard to implement. The dual color controller in the Apollos is technically a 20 channel flasher. Not many smart controllers out there (including the 4200) go past 8 outputs. We can split up the wires and link 2 or 3 modules per wire if that helps? :undecided:


As you can see each port supports 2 "channels". We are open to ideas, its not an easy problem to solve.





-Nick

 

[911graphicsandlighting]

I like the duel color option currently you have on the apollo 2x and yes i see it would be a easy problem to solve but between everybodys input should solve this issue i am going to thank on this and ponder on it also and is what kind of suggestions i can come with hopefully the group can help solve this problem together

 

[TACKLEBERRY]

I don't think 20 channels would be that bad. Most likely the users purchasing a "dumb bar" are going to have a bit more experience/know-how in installations. They're most likely going to be grouping the Apollo's channels on their own do achieve the desired pattern.


i.e. getting it to work with a current ULF44:


Group the left 5 light heads in color one with output 1 and group the right 5 light heads in color two with output 2. Then group the left 5 light heads in color two with output 4 and the right 5 light heads in color 1 with output 4.


I'm sure you'll be offering the Apollo in a single color and not just a dual color, so in that case you'd have 10 channels and it could work with your 4200 TA function (just have to group light heads 1+2 and 9+10).

 

[marionso14]

Personally, I would like to see several half/half patterns with decent amount of "on" time and also a random pattern. I would also like to see a "cruise" mode. Where the outer 2 LED steady burn... On a separate note, a chmsl wrap around light would be neat. Keep up the good work!

 

[ERM]

Copy all of these;

How do you keep both LEDs from coming on at the same time if you have different flashers connected to them. Problem is you'll have a mixture of colors and double the heat generated.

 

[John Hearne]

At least two modes AND cruise lights mode.

 

[tvsjr]

Although that sounds like a great idea it would be rather hard to implement. The dual color controller in the Apollos is technically a 20 channel flasher. Not many smart controllers out there (including the 4200) go past 8 outputs. We can split up the wires and link 2 or 3 modules per wire if that helps? :undecided:

As you can see each port supports 2 "channels". We are open to ideas, its not an easy problem to solve.


View attachment 62003


-Nick

You're obviously using some form of microprocessor to control the flash programs... which means reprogramming it isn't that hard with the right cables and software. How about just allowing the end user (maybe through the purchase of a "programming kit" at some reasonable price) program their own patterns? This would give you Cantrol-esque functionality without the cost and the dealer exclusivity issue. It would at least be a big differentiator for your product.

 

[firefighter31]

will there be a split, just passenger side version?

 

[Nick@Feniex]

You're obviously using some form of microprocessor to control the flash programs... which means reprogramming it isn't that hard with the right cables and software. How about just allowing the end user (maybe through the purchase of a "programming kit" at some reasonable price) program their own patterns? This would give you Cantrol-esque functionality without the cost and the dealer exclusivity issue. It would at least be a big differentiator for your product.

Great point. Sadly it’s not that easy. We have a dedicated firmware engineer that spent over 1 month on the Apollo controller project and has over 100 pages of code designed in. I don’t think code writing is something end users can do. Maybe our software guy can design a more simple user interface people can program form. Do you really feel customers want to design their own patterns? It would be a large development project for us but we will do it if people think it’s a good idea.


Nick

 

[minig0d]

I like the dumb bar design... how about not having nasty split sides... aka all the left side be the same and all the right side be the same... then you'd only need 4? channels on the flasher to control it? (of course couldnt do TA patterns without some kind of extra microcontroller) but it'd be worth it to not have TA... I think TA on a front bar is pretty hideous to begin with... would be nicer to be able to just sync the bar with other feniex lights in general... forget all the extras! wiring up a couple of modules onto the same channel is just split fail city waiting to happen


But as far as the original question, I vote that you concentrate heavily on substantial flash patterns rather than these bars that are R/B/R/B/R B/R/B/R/B and flash that whole mixed side together... complete pattern fail... set them up RRRRRRR BBBBBBB and have some nice tripple flash alternating patterns and stuff... they can be seizure fast or slow just get ALL of that half of the bar blinking together!

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

Great point. Sadly it’s not that easy. We have a dedicated firmware engineer that spent over 1 month on the Apollo controller project and has over 100 pages of code designed in. I don’t think code writing is something end users can do. Maybe our software guy can design a more simple user interface people can program form. Do you really feel customers want to design their own patterns? It would be a large development project for us but we will do it if people think it’s a good idea.

Nick

As an end user... I had a WeCan Justice on my patrol car. I LOVED the fact that I basically had unlimited patterns at my finger tips. The Whelen Setup was far from perfect but it really did give me added use to my light bar.


Most of my agency's fleet was set to a crap pattern and the bar was under utilized, however; I spent time working with a couple of our techs and the patterns and versatility of that bar was changed while it was in use and they became more educated with it. Subsequently the agency went away from the Justice due to cost, but having that as an option would be very awesome.


As a dealer, I think it would be a great selling point even at premium cost. It is complex, but the added benefits of this would be amazing and really open up the versatility of the Interior Bar, Light Sticks, Etc.

 

[TACKLEBERRY]

Maybe the solution is that Feniex makes their own "centralized flasher moduale" to compete with the Whelen WeCan, Code3 CELS, and FedSig.


Make a 'dumb bar' and an external flasher with a number of outputs and inputs. The flasher would have a USB port and allow you to download updates/new patterns. Powering different inputs would activate different patterns (much like the WeCan).


This would allow one centralized flasher to control and sync all other connected Feniex products, as long as they too are dumb lights or set to steady burn.

 

[Flashguy]

I've said it before, but again I think it's awesome you come to the site for input. It's always great to see a company seek input from the end user.


Flash patterns I'd like to see on the dual color bar:


Pattern 1:


RRRRRWWWWW > WWWWWRRRRR > RRRRRWWWWW at 60-90 FPS wig wag


Then


WWWWWWWWWW > RRRRRRRRRR > WWWWWWWWWW at 120 FPS


Repeat.


Pattern 2:


RRRRRRRRRR > RRWWRRWWRR > WWRRWWRRWW > RRRRRRRRRR > WWWWWWWWWW at 60-90 FPS > repeat.


Pattern 3:


Bar all Red with a fast white 3 sections going left to right fast.


Thanks for allowing input!!!!

 

[tvsjr]

Great point. Sadly it’s not that easy. We have a dedicated firmware engineer that spent over 1 month on the Apollo controller project and has over 100 pages of code designed in. I don’t think code writing is something end users can do. Maybe our software guy can design a more simple user interface people can program form. Do you really feel customers want to design their own patterns? It would be a large development project for us but we will do it if people think it’s a good idea.

Nick

Well, I didn't say rewrite the entire firmware... you'd need a way to just rewrite the flash patterns. To draw a comparison - I don't have to rewrite the firmware of my APX portables every time I program them... I just rewrite the codeplugs. You would need to do the same here.


You would want at least 3 control wires to select different patterns. At a minimum, you'd want a mode for responding, blocking, and takedown.


In all honesty, Feniex is still a long way from being able to compete with Whelen, C3, FedSig, etc. in the large contract space. Most of your market is going to come from small/mid market and from individual purchases... many of whom will come from here. The individuals are likely to care enough about their equipment and vehicle that being able to build custom flash patterns would be seen as a key differentiator.

 

[ERM]

I've said it before, but again I think it's awesome you come to the site for input. It's always great to see a company seek input from the end user.

Flash patterns I'd like to see on the dual color bar:


Pattern 1:


RRRRRWWWWW > WWWWWRRRRR > RRRRRWWWWW at 60-90 FPS wig wag


Then


WWWWWWWWWW > RRRRRRRRRR > WWWWWWWWWW at 120 FPS


Repeat.


Pattern 2:


RRRRRRRRRR > RRWWRRWWRR > WWRRWWRRWW > RRRRRRRRRR > WWWWWWWWWW at 60-90 FPS > repeat.


Pattern 3:


Bar all Red with a fast white 3 sections going left to right fast.


Thanks for allowing input!!!!

Translation:


Pattern 1:


RedPinkWhite > WhitePinkRed > RedPinkWhite at 60-90 FPS wig wag


Then


WWWWWWWWWW > RRRRRRRRRR > WWWWWWWWWW at 120 FPS


Repeat.


Pattern 2:


RRRRRRRRRR > Pink> Pink> RRRRRRRRRR > WWWWWWWWWW at 60-90 FPS > repeat.


:haha:

 

[AllStrobedUp]

Something similar to action flash.

 

[FSEP]

What about a pair of T6's as takedowns?

 

[minig0d]

What about a pair of T6's as takedowns?

What he said or the titan heads if they are any different *shrug*


More innovative brackets idea. I want to see a damn ilb that installs ONLY with 3M tape to the windshield. Use something like top and bottom flanges and 3M tape. Like the optional star SVP mini phantom shrouds have but on a larger scale for this. This idea alone would be a deciding factor for many people I think. Since many have trouble with odd vehicle types and the visor brackets. It would also let you use the same bar on the back glass of a car without drilling for brackets. And I guess a rear truck/SUV version could be made that was basically a cobra stick with this same type of adhesive shroud.


Other nice random thoughts:


An adjustable baffle like how star/SVP has. But preferably on the sides of the lights too. (Obviously not possible or needed in conjunction with the above idea)


A couple sized fork brackets since apparently the visor bracket on some vehicles is wider than others

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

What he said or the titan heads if they are any different *shrug*

The take down modules in the Apollo bar are pretty amazing. They don't have the same optics. There was a side by side comparison with a T-6 head and the the Apollo module with the take down optics blew away the Cobra T6 in white.

 

[ERM]

What he said or the titan heads if they are any different *shrug*


More innovative brackets idea. I want to see a damn ilb that installs ONLY with 3M tape to the windshield. Use something like top and bottom flanges and 3M tape. Like the optional star SVP mini phantom shrouds have but on a larger scale for this. This idea alone would be a deciding factor for many people I think. Since many have trouble with odd vehicle types and the visor brackets. It would also let you use the same bar on the back glass of a car without drilling for brackets. And I guess a rear truck/SUV version could be made that was basically a cobra stick with this same type of adhesive shroud.

Only one problem with 3M tape with this size of light, Force = Mass x Acceleration. During an impact, a light of this size and weight can break free and be a swinging metal bat. Too much liability. Even Tomar provides a tether for their dash lights. Most people don't use it, but at least they are covered by providing it.


I've seen pics of a Talon on a windshield and after the crash, the Talon spidered the glass. Just that little plastic Talon. Can you imagine something with weight?


Don't mean to squash your idea, but yes you can make it strong enough to hold the light, but what about when you want to take it down? Might as well sell it as part of the car. :haha:


Tony