Feniex Push Bumper Idea

Alex@Feniex

Feniex Industries
All,

Our product development team would like a little feedback on a push bumper product line we are considering. Simple question for you all is do you feel Feniex should enter this market? Any advantages we can bring to the market rather than integrated lighting at an affordable USA Made price? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. See attached scratches our marketing guys put together.

Package 1ng.png
 

Sigma Safety

Senior Member
If you are considering manufacturing your own bumpers, I'd use caution in this market.  There are TONS of other pushbumper manufacturers out there doing exactly the same thing, except that they partner with lighting companies to make bumpers that fit FedSig, Whelen, etc. lights.  GoRhino, Setina, and more recently Westin all do this, and I'm sure there are others.  Pricing is all extremely competitive, the stuff is a pain to ship, and there are so many vehicle styles and they change all the time.  Setina makes theirs in WA, Westin in China, and GoRhino in Mexico.  It's pretty hard for you to compete with something like that, and I would bet that the profit margin sucks.

I think you'd put a ton of money and engineering time into this and have a difficult time selling.  I'd rather see you put your cash into beacons, etc. because that portion of our industry is waiting to be disrupted.  Pushbumpers, not so much.

Better idea would be to talk to someone like Westin (I can get you contact info) and see if they would make a cross-member that would accept your lights.

I hope that helps.
 
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Sigma Safety

Senior Member
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HILO

Forum Guru
With the vehicle manufactures making head and tail lamp assemblies more complicated to add hide always into, I'd like to see plug and play light assemblies with LEDs incorporated. There are companies who make aftermarket or replacement light assemblies. A Pair of Taurus head lights with built in LEDs for intersection, HLF, and or red/blue, for example, would be a big seller I think. The NBS Tahoe is another vehicle that has difficult head and taillamps.
 

GWyatt

Newbie
Is this going to incorporate a Titan or Corbra? I personally would rather have the work lights of a Cobra for scene lighting.

Excuse me "Titan" for scene lighting
 
If you do move forward the biggest thing I can suggest is allow people to keep their tow hooks(a few brands/styles do not offer that) and an upper bracket that goes to the frame. Max protection that way.


Ranch hand makes their grille guards that way. And I've hit stuff pretty hard and pushed more with my Silverado
 

sheazle

Premium Member
I think you would have a better market for beacons and large-footprint lightheads and other warning devices, rather than a pushbumper. You guys have proven you know how to make high-quality warning equipment, you would have to start all over moving into a new market.

If anything a partnership with an established accessory company would probably be more beneficial. I know Ranch Hand is all made in the U.S.A.

But I'm just this guy, you know?
 

unlisted

Gold Supporter
I think you would have a better market for beacons and large-footprint lightheads and other warning devices, rather than a pushbumper. You guys have proven you know how to make high-quality warning equipment, you would have to start all over moving into a new market.

If anything a partnership with an established accessory company would probably be more beneficial. I know Ranch Hand is all made in the U.S.A.
I'd have to agree with the above. For now if I was someone important at Feniex I'd be sticking to releasing additional innovative and cost competitive lighting options, including those prototype large format lightheads Feniex had months ago... trust me you have a large (see what I did there) market for those! ;)

And as others have echoed in this thread and others, get some bright as heck beacons going.. You know, something that'll blow those new Whelen Rota-beams out of the water (on price point, simulated rotating pattern and brightness). We all know your company is more than capable of doing that. :thumbsup:
 
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Jarred J.

Archive Expert
Silver Supporter
it would need more than a light stick... if it had the like 4 heads that flash. 2 titan spot lights. and a dual colored warning light with white light override, itd be unique...

or a tricolor light on the side...

or a warning light that has white light override where the whole bar becomes scene lighting...
 

Kevin K.

Member
I'd like to echo the sentiments presented by leftcoastmark and HILO. I wouldn't discourage Feniex from pursuing this market; however, I'd recommend a partnership with Setina. Perhaps a unique approach would be offering the integrated lightstick in the top and middle cross members. This would provide dual-level lighting, perhaps the end user would specify colored flashers for the top cross member and the flood light for the middle cross member.

HILO has a terrific idea, and Feniex would be the one to execute it perfectly with the Cannon. A retrofit HL and TL assembly incorporating standard lighting requirements and warning lights would be a fantastic introduction to this market. No one else does this.
 

unlisted

Gold Supporter
I'd agree with consoles. Plus offer custom consoles. If you did that I'd have an order waiting for you.
 

pdk9

Veteran Member
Alex, I'm sure there are some people already dabbling with this (I remember seeing custom lights on an ambulance in Mexico), but I really think that feniex needs to work on a line of larger, linear lightheads. Although feniex is still only a "baby," compared to other companies that have been around for 30+ years, I think feniex needs to make a push to enter the fire apparatus market (by having an NFPA 1901 line) and the ambulance market; those are 2 huge sources of potential revenue, whereas a cobra-integrated PB isn't something that I see as a "wow" idea that resources should be dedicated to
 
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Sigma Safety

Senior Member
Remember that the majority of sales to the fire market are OEM sales to apparatus manufacturers.  That's a whole different ball game when it comes to selling lights, because OEMs are very difficult to change due to existing engineering diagrams, etc.

Making stuff is pretty easy, but Alex has to think of it from a sales perspective.  They have to go where they either a) see a market that is untapped or waiting to be disrupted and/or B; somewhere where they can make at least a reasonable margin and sell in tonnage.  It's great to tell all manufacturers to make everything , but it's just not reality from a manufacturing point of view. 

Keep in mind that manufacturers have to think of the entire cycle;  procurement of raw materials, engineering, design, marketing, production (including production facilities, staff, training, etc.) support, documentation, shipping, and a discontinuation cycle (how long do they continue making a pushbumper for an 04 Chev Sierra 2500 HD, for example).  Then there are headaches like what happens if a vendor you buy widgets from changes the widget and now it is no longer suitable for your product.  Is there another vendor or do you have to redesign the product or discontinue it?  This happens all the time with manufacturing companies.

That's the stuff bigger businesses (i.e. - bigger than a home-based business, even one as technologically advanced as JazzDad Industries!) need to think about to keep their customers happy...   You have to put your limited resources (staff, money, etc.) to the best use, both for short- and long-term profitability.
 
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336

Member
Silver Supporter
What about making a light housing/bracket for specific push bumpers. 

No reason you couldn't come up with a design that looks like it belongs..
 
I would not be in the market for push bumpers. I offer Jotto as a special order and its RARE I even get interest. I would go after the amber beacon market. Ecco is starting to run away with it, and in my opinion, Feniex could EASILY compete with a quality 6" beacon. The first beacon Feniex offered was impressive, it just needed some 'beefing up' and restyling in the base and dome...
 

PJD642

Premium Member
Gold Supporter
I would not be in the market for push bumpers. I offer Jotto as a special order and its RARE I even get interest. I would go after the amber beacon market. Ecco is starting to run away with it, and in my opinion, Feniex could EASILY compete with a quality 6" beacon. The first beacon Feniex offered was impressive, it just needed some 'beefing up' and restyling in the base and dome...
Agree 100% - a good amber beacon, low profile, with mag, vac mag, or pole mount options would sell like hotcakes.  And of course red & blue would be nice too....
 

Jarred J.

Archive Expert
Silver Supporter
and green
 

pdk9

Veteran Member
Remember that the majority of sales to the fire market are OEM sales to apparatus manufacturers. That's a whole different ball game when it comes to selling lights, because OEMs are very difficult to change due to existing engineering diagrams, etc.


Making stuff is pretty easy, but Alex has to think of it from a sales perspective. They have to go where they either a) see a market that is untapped or waiting to be disrupted and/or B; somewhere where they can make at least a reasonable margin and sell in tonnage. It's great to tell all manufacturers to make everything , but it's just not reality from a manufacturing point of view.


Keep in mind that manufacturers have to think of the entire cycle; procurement of raw materials, engineering, design, marketing, production (including production facilities, staff, training, etc.) support, documentation, shipping, and a discontinuation cycle (how long do they continue making a pushbumper for an 04 Chev Sierra 2500 HD, for example). Then there are headaches like what happens if a vendor you buy widgets from changes the widget and now it is no longer suitable for your product. Is there another vendor or do you have to redesign the product or discontinue it? This happens all the time with manufacturing companies.


That's the stuff bigger businesses (i.e. - bigger than a home-based business, even one as technologically advanced as JazzDad Industries!) need to think about to keep their customers happy... You have to put your limited resources (staff, money, etc.) to the best use, both for short- and long-term profitability.
Thank you for the marketing lesson, but I minored in that in college & my uncle is an E-One & Whelen dealer, so I think I have a basic understanding of it. I'm not saying he has to reinvent the wheel; I'm saying that they should look into releasing a larger lighthead in the pretty standard (approx) 6"x4" size that FedSig, whelen, etc offer, so that there would not be any design changes needed to accommodate and install such a lighthead in existing apparatus designs. The quadraflare, for example, is essentially 2 rows of Solaris reflectors behind one large lens, so feniex should consider making a pitch to apparatus manufacturers of a similar-sized lighthead (ie double rows of Apollo reflectors inside). I'm not saying it'd be easy to get someone like E-one, Horton, Braun, or Pierce on board right off the bat, but there are other smaller companies (ie power arc) that made a pitch to them and are slowly seeing their lights on more rigs.
 

okc_f150

Member
Has Feniex given any thought to making a vertical Apollo? Take the three reflectors you have that are mounted horizontally, and turn them 90 degrees. You would have to change the flange but that shouldn't be too hard.

These lights would be PERFECT for mounting on push bumpers, tool boxes, headache racks, and other tight spaces.

Just a thought...
 

Sigma Safety

Senior Member
Thank you for the marketing lesson, but I minored in that in college & my uncle is an E-One & Whelen dealer, so I think I have a basic understanding of it. I'm not saying he has to reinvent the wheel; I'm saying that they should look into releasing a larger lighthead in the pretty standard (approx) 6"x4" size that FedSig, whelen, etc offer, so that there would not be any design changes needed to accommodate and install such a lighthead in existing apparatus designs. The quadraflare, for example, is essentially 2 rows of Solaris reflectors behind one large lens, so feniex should consider making a pitch to apparatus manufacturers of a similar-sized lighthead (ie double rows of Apollo reflectors inside). I'm not saying it'd be easy to get someone like E-one, Horton, Braun, or Pierce on board right off the bat, but there are other smaller companies (ie power arc) that made a pitch to them and are slowly seeing their lights on more rigs.
My uncle flies CF18's.  Doesn't mean I know how to.

My point was that with fire truck manufacturers (not "dealers"), they have assembly lines set up and it's difficult to change brands.  We had Pierce tell one local (and large) fire dep't that they would only install Whelen on their trucks - nothing else - because their engineering diagrams and installation procedures were already set up for Whelen and they wouldn't change for 'only' 3 trucks.  That eliminated them from the bid, but whatever.

If you could make a light that was exactly like a Whelen, but at a lower price, but still good reliability, then you'd have a chance.  I guess I just don't see why Feniex would want to go head-to-head in a hard-to-sell-to market.  Put time and money into making something unique and/or better than existing products, like the Cannon is.
 

JCS

Junior Member
I would welcome this idea, absolutely. Especially if it had predetermined spots for lights/bars/speakers (whatever) would make our work truck installs a lot faster.


Maybe a built in (or customized) wiring design so the wiring had spots to enter and exit the bar without having to drill everything out.


Idk. I think its a good idea.
 

Kent@MoveOverOutfitters

Established Member
No thank you.

I would like to see you guys complete a warning light/siren brand prior to moving to this.

-Stand alone headlight flasher

-Stand alone taillight flasher

-Stand alone led flasher

-All in one siren/light control (think Whelen 295slsa6)

-Fog light style round PAR leds and brackets

-Change the Cobra 1x and 2x to be more similar to the Apollo 1x and 2x (as discussed earlier)

-Flush mount rubber grommets for t6, t3, Apollo

(I can send you some Whelen version so you can see them)

I have many more ideas that would come ahead of a push bumper. 
 
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Eric1249

Veteran Member
I would focus the resources towards new lightbars, larger light heads, beacons, ect...
I agree.  I think there would be a larger market for that.  Or just make a stick (hint) that can be used on existing push bars.  Or on any brush guard.
 

MEVS06

Restricted User
Everyone needs to remember, Feniex is not built in a garage. They are a growing company and many of the items that people keep asking for on here are in the works. I don't agree with making everything like whelen, they have made their products to set them apart from other manufacturers. This push bumper idea is one of them.
 

Kent@MoveOverOutfitters

Established Member
Everyone needs to remember, Feniex is not built in a garage. They are a growing company and many of the items that people keep asking for on here are in the works. I don't agree with making everything like whelen, they have made their products to set them apart from other manufacturers. This push bumper idea is one of them.
I will agree to disagree.

I wasn't suggesting they make everything like Whelen but was giving examples of things I want to see before a push bumper.  Why not partner with a few of the top brands in the push bumper market and get a top channel made for a few of your products.  I just don't think this is a useful part of the market to wrap a ton of time, equipment, and effort into.  There are many reasons for my feelings but lets use a real world experience we have had:  Try to order a speaker bracket from Feniex for a Triton, its a one piece simple bracket and they don't stock them and the price isn't as good as the same part (almost exactly) from Whelen for the SA315. 

And why wouldn't you want them to make a flasher or an all in one siren/light control that console mounts?  I used the example of Whelen because they are easy to index but companies like Fed Sig, Code3, SOS are doing the same stuff.  I see the chance for Feniex to finish out their lineup in these areas and make a full featured line where they can show off their innovations.  I constantly ask my rep and tech what is in the works and these items have been suggested before, I just hope that others will chime in and agree they value this more than a push bumper being made in the next 48 months.

Final thoughts...  Feniex: Sure I would love to see you make push bumpers, consoles, cages, k9 transport, computers, radios, graphics, etc but if you want my opinion which is what was asked for in the original post I would stay clear of this area until you finish/iron out the electronic based product lines you have.

Thanks

Kent
 
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