Fire depts that bill

[firemannelson37]

On the old old board there was a thread about volunteer fire depts that bill for equipment used at fires and mvas, there was alot of good info, and now we are thinking about doing the same thing due to finacial issues and our budget being slashed by the town. I need to know how you get started, how does the billing work, who gets billed the driver or the insurance company, basically any info you can give would help. If someone could help me out with this I would appreciate it. Thanks

 

[mcpd2025]

Montgomery County is doing a typical liberal billing for ambulance service. If you have insurance, you get billed between $300 and I believe $800 for an ambulance ride. If you don't have insurance, you don't get billed. God forbid I ever need the services of a county ambulance, I will make sure my insurance company knows NOT to pay it... the law says they can't come after me if I don't have insurance, so they can't come after me if I do!


Oh yea, the volunteer fire department is against the billing, FYI.

 

[RL1]

My home town FD is fire and ems. 8 paid stations with vollys that do ride time and are called out to fires. Fire service is free, but EMS is billed if there is a transport. Service is billed to the PT, no extra charge for extrication, etc., but ALS is more than BLS. The medic does the run and PT report, the EMT does the charge sheet. Puts a check mark next to O2, monitor, IV, meds, back board, etc. and the admin sends a bill.

 

[Zach C.]

If its a fire and the people have insurance we bill the insurance. If they dont we dont bill. If its a MVC we bill the insurance company. For a MVC we bill the insurance company for each truck and man on scene per hour we are there. We also bill for medical treatment and supplys. Extraction and LZ also gets billed more.

 

[Mick (firewolf)]

Here's my opinion ... MVC's, fires, etc, etc, that's why we're there. That's the whole point of the job. And we're not a business, we're there for public safety. I think charging for responding to calls is ridiculous, no matter what the circumstance. Now the caveat to that statement is, I also think that our public should be paying for that service out of their taxes since our purpose is public safety, so that we don't HAVE to charge. In today's world where we cut fire stations so we can keep the public pool open, things aren't quite as simple. What I would like to see is this - every person who votes against a fire department millage has to register with a service at the time they cast that vote. Whenever we are called to a call that involves them (in any way, even if they are not at fault, or are just a witness) it is recorded. At the end of the year, the total cost of "doing business" is tallied and divided up amongst those who were noted - and if by chance someone was involved in more than one call, they get an extra share for each time ...

 

[Alex]

My former Volunteer Fire Department in Wisconsin, we would send a bill of service to the insurance company of all vehicles involved. We would not pursue collections if went unpaid. Sometime, the insurance company will refuse to pay and forward the bill to the driver, who would then pay. Again, we would pursue any nonpayment’s.


It was if we were asking for donations.


My former subscription based Fire Department here in Arizona would charge for any response, unless a paid subscriber was involved. They would also bill the insurance company for auto accidents and if decline, would go after the driver and/or owner. Because of costs involved, they would not refer to a collections agency. Sometimes, the chief would send out firefighters to collect.


I am not a chief of any department nor have I ever been. I don't know what it takes to run a volunteer fire department. I like the idea of sending a donation letter to anyone invovled in any time of response. As it relates to auto accidents, include a list of supplies/services that were used.


i.e. 2 bags of oil dry


Swept street


Vehicle extrication


Battery disconnection


etc...


For fires (that weren't a total loss, because that would just add insult to injury)


2 - Type 1 engines


1 - Tenders (or tankers for you east coast boys) x5 hours or 8,000 gallons of water


1 - Command Vehicles x5 hours


Almost like an itemized statement, but not a real bill for service. These personnel and equipment are unpaid professionals who were able to prevent the loss of live and additional property. It cost money to keep this equipment ready to protect...

 

[Alex]

My above response only applies to volunteer departments or any departments that doesn't recieve tax money.

 

[kinnelonfire75]

my volly dept has been contemplating billing for bullshit calls. like the 3rd activated alarm in a month that is false. that is homeowner laziness to replace the system. we have gone to a home 8 times in the 3 months. There is an ordinance on the books that lets us charge 25 false alarm but we don't use it. we want it amended to a higher cost.


volly BLS is free. we even loan out equipment. ALS is billed only because ALS responds from the hospitals and therefore they are private entities, that are a business.

 

[Zach C.]

My above response only applies to volunteer departments or any departments that doesn't recieve tax money.

The dept in my above post is a volunteer dept and recieves no money. It is kept alive by donations and members.

 

[Alex]

The dept in my above post is a volunteer dept and recieves no money. It is kept alive by donations and members.

My comment meant that I don't believe career or municiple fire departments should bill for service, unless it is for certain assists like snake removals here in az. I can understand false alarms as well, for repeat offenders. If you recieve tax money, the citizens have already paid for your services.

 

[Zach C.]

My comment meant that I don't believe career or municiple fire departments should bill for service, unless it is for certain assists like snake removals here in az. I can understand false alarms as well, for repeat offenders. If you recieve tax money, the citizens have already paid for your services.

I 100% agree with you.


When I read your first and second post I misunderstood it. Thats what happens when you aint had any sleep in 3 days. My apologies.


Zach

 

[NPS Ranger]

Sometimes, the chief would send out firefighters to collect.

Wow. Besides the obvious bad P.R. of sending out firefighter/"enforcers" to collect, imagine the bad consequences if the nonpayer then had another fire down the road. Hmmm....

 

[gfpd26]

My Dept. here in Illinois only charges for NON-taxpayers, IE interstate traffic and out of district people. The state actually has a rate to charge by law, but it just was changed. Our old billing was $75/hr per Firefighter and $125/hr per truck. This is only billed to the insurance, never the individual. If the insurance tells us to piss off, oh well.

 

[Mick (firewolf)]

my volly dept has been contemplating billing for bullshit calls. like the 3rd activated alarm in a month that is false. that is homeowner laziness to replace the system. we have gone to a home 8 times in the 3 months. There is an ordinance on the books that lets us charge 25 false alarm but we don't use it. we want it amended to a higher cost.

ah yes, by "no matter the circumstances," I meant more along the lines of whether or not they live in the district, etc .. I wasn't thinking along these lines, but I actually have NO problem pursuing repayment from entities with multiple fasle alarms or from dui suspects/criminals inolved in incidents in which they get hurt or need rescue (running from the cops, shot by the cops, stuck in a chimney during a home invasion, etc ...)

 

[mfdbenji]

We have one local fire department that charges for calls, they are not run by a municipality, they are a business. They charge first for every call, a $150 Flat fee. If the call lasts more then an hour they will charge additional amounts for apparatus and personel. This charge is USUALLY paid by the town (kind of like a contract for service). The only exception to the rule is Mutual Aid calls they will not charge.


The Department I used to work for would charge business's only if we got 3 or more false alarms a year. The payment was steap, A Flat $250 Fee for being dispatched, $500 for every piece of appartuss that responded, and then pay the wages for every member that responded (we would get payed between $9 and $12 an hour while on a call, getting payed twice a year). Many times we would get 4 or 5 false alarms a day at some places so the cost goes up REAL quick

 

[RL1]

I forgot but Southside in Savannah, Ga. does a contract service. Tried to find a website but no luck so far.

 

[tnems7]

Montgomery County is doing a typical liberal billing for ambulance service. If you have insurance, you get billed between $300 and I believe $800 for an ambulance ride. If you don't have insurance, you don't get billed.

If the Montgomery County rescue squad or fire department is sending ambulance bills only to insured patients and is billing Medicare recipients, they are probably committing Medicare fraud. There are legal ways to do what you are indicating, you just cannot bill Medicare for ambulance transport unless the service bills for all patients that receive services.


If you were to live in Tennessee, I think you would be happy to have you insurance company pay the ambulance bill. Since most insurance payments may be considered payment in full. Failing to pay a legitimate bill could result in the bill being turned over to a collection agency.


If a person is truly indigent, most bills are written off, but our local governments help subsidize ambulance services in 94 of 95 counties, and any collections help to defray any subsidy that would have to be paid from county taxes. And in this economy, all of our local governments need more funds.

 

[firemannelson37]

My Dept. here in Illinois only charges for NON-taxpayers, IE interstate traffic and out of district people. The state actually has a rate to charge by law, but it just was changed. Our old billing was $75/hr per Firefighter and $125/hr per truck. This is only billed to the insurance, never the individual. If the insurance tells us to piss off, oh well.

Are you on a volunteer dept?


I think you have about the closest thing we are thinking of, plus also billing for 3+ false alarms at the same location per year, and this is a last resort for us, but due our budget being slashed in half and very little in the way of donations coming in, we really have no other option. We of course would just bill the insurance co and not go after the person themselves.

 

[Grotonems5]

I am on a non-paid volunteer fire and EMS service.. ALL I have to say is... I don't think we should charge, but if they stopped cutting our budget we wouldn't even have to consider it.. my 2 cents...

 

[TheZach]

My comment meant that I don't believe career or municiple fire departments should bill for service, unless it is for certain assists like snake removals here in az. I can understand false alarms as well, for repeat offenders. If you recieve tax money, the citizens have already paid for your services.

I would also add a few things to your list like DUI's, meth labs, etc. Things that are the result of blatant illegal activity

 

[Doug]

Montgomery County is doing a typical liberal billing for ambulance service. If you have insurance, you get billed between $300 and I believe $800 for an ambulance ride. If you don't have insurance, you don't get billed. God forbid I ever need the services of a county ambulance, I will make sure my insurance company knows NOT to pay it... the law says they can't come after me if I don't have insurance, so they can't come after me if I do!

Oh yea, the volunteer fire department is against the billing, FYI.

PG also bills for emergency medical services; additionally, many (but not all) of the VFDs in PG also bill. I believe that whomever owns the piece of apparatus is the one that is entitled to bill the insurance company.


Also, I believe, but cannot confirm, that the Montgomery County (MD) VFDs were against the billing because that precluded them from billing.