Frequency IDs

triton911bj

Member
May 24, 2010
463
Springville, PA
OK everyone,


Question to anyone who dispatches, does ur agency/company/ect want you to or require you to annouce the radio frequency ID or call letters at any point?


Just curious. My current 911 center wants us sign on the radio at begining of our shift with the call sign/letters, annouce the call signs/letters after dispatches and every hour past 6pm.


I dont really see the point. i understand fcc wants you to but why?? if im tryin to dispatch an "oh shit" type call, i really dont wana rattle off 3-4 sets of call signs/letters after my tones. to me its annoying. The other 911 center i worked in never used them at all. Matter of fact never knew what they were. And out of the other countys around me i nvere hear them use them either.


So im asking everyone, does ur agency use them, and why are we supposed to you them?


Thanx BJ
 

Lt.214

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
600
Southwest Ohio USA
Where I am the County dispatch used to identify after every tone drop(required by the FCC) verbally. We switched to a different radio system at the first of the year and the radio shop put on a morse code identifier at that time that identifies on the VHF page frequency(all radio traffic is now on digital 800 for us). A morse code identifier satisfies the FCC requirement. This may be a solution for you agency as they can be programmed to identify on a given cycle( eg every 10 minutes, every hour, as well as after every tone drop). They can be programmed to key up with or without a PL activated so as not to disrupt any traffic.


What you are describing is just your agencies choice. This may be an option they would want to look into as the morse code identifer works without any human interaction and leaves the dispatchers to do their job, no sound like an old Emergency re run( KMG365 :lol: ).


Chris
 

ohi007

Member
May 21, 2010
386
Canton, oh
there are several dispatch centers in the county i am in.


1 center (does prob 60% of the departments in the county) used the call signs at every dispatch and when the last unit from the dept goes back in quarters.


the 2nd larger center almost never uses them, except in the morning at the daily radio test.


the center i am at, we never use them. i have talked with the boss several times about sing them, and he doesnt see a need for them. there are almost no CW (morris code) identifiers on any of the frequency's.


so i guess (even though the FCC REQUIRES IT) it is up to the dispatch center if they are used or not.
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
All of our ops channels have morse code ID's as well. The only time I ever hear callsigns is if one of the fire departments puts a page out over their base radio for a test page / meeting reminder or something.
 

Cam

Member
May 20, 2010
247
MO
I think they required every hour on a PW license. Most have a CW with no PL/DPL so the users of the system have no idea it is even happening. Not much chance of getting caught if your not causing problems for another license but probably not really worth the risk when it comes your license.
 
May 24, 2010
1,627
PG County, MD
ALL business rated repeater systems have the ID ability built into them and are generally programmed with the users particular call sign (ID) when installed by whomever (proffessional radio shop, county/city/state radio shop, etc.).


FCC requirement is every 15 minutes to be able to ID a transmitter that is interferring with the anyone else. It has come in handy several times here in the DC Metro area, but then you find out the user causing an issue is a Federal agency and then you go from dealing with the FCC to the NTIA. Good times.
 

lehman91

Member
May 21, 2010
37
ok guestion for everyone out there what will th fcc do if the catch someone not using there call sign the way they are suposse to?
 
May 24, 2010
1,627
PG County, MD
lehman91 said:
ok guestion for everyone out there what will th fcc do if the catch someone not using there call sign the way they are suposse to?

Depends...are you causing interference to anyone?


If not, then probably just an enforcement letter to say fix it and prove it is fixed.


If you are, enforcement letter and possible fine, as well as proof that interference and call sign issue have been fixed.


By the way, the above applies to those LE groups that think they can get away with using amateur radio equipment and frequencies as well GMRS frequencies to do LE work.
 

ParkPiggy

Member
May 21, 2010
667
Northeast Ohio
Since we went 800 digital P25, the call sign is morse code, but never heard on the radios. I think it still broadcast, just it doesn't open the radio when it goes out. Plus, there are about 20 physical frequencies, with probably about 200 channels on the system now. Its a county wide radio system, with just about every PD and FD, along with EMA and all the county agencies on it.
 

Lt.214

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
600
Southwest Ohio USA
From FCC 47 CFR Ch.1 (10-1-09 Edition)


Using unauthorized frequency ................................. 4,000


Failure to engage in required frequency coordination


....................................................................... 4,000


Construction or operation at unauthorized location 4,000


Violation of requirements pertaining to broadcasting


of lotteries or contests ............................. 4,000


Violation of transmitter control and metering requirements


........................................................... 3,000


Failure to file required forms or information ............ 3,000


Failure to make required measurements or conduct


required monitoring ...................................... 2,000


Failure to provide station ID .................................... 1,000


Unauthorized pro forma transfer of control ............. 1,000


Failure to maintain required records ....................... 1,000


Chris.
 

lehman91

Member
May 21, 2010
37
ok thank you im not broadcasting anything i was just wondering becausse im aways willing to learn something new, and that an expensive fine.
 

w8jkc

Member
May 21, 2010
23
North Industry, OH
Lt.214 said:
From FCC 47 CFR Ch.1 (10-1-09 Edition)

Using unauthorized frequency ................................. 4,000


Failure to engage in required frequency coordination


....................................................................... 4,000


Construction or operation at unauthorized location 4,000


Violation of requirements pertaining to broadcasting


of lotteries or contests ............................. 4,000


Violation of transmitter control and metering requirements


........................................................... 3,000


Failure to file required forms or information ............ 3,000


Failure to make required measurements or conduct


required monitoring ...................................... 2,000


Failure to provide station ID .................................... 1,000


Unauthorized pro forma transfer of control ............. 1,000


Failure to maintain required records ....................... 1,000


Chris.

Direct Link...


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-t ... -part1.pdf (See Page 30 in this PDF).
 

AdaFire38

Member
May 16, 2010
148
Lowell, MI
I timed myself using the the call letters of my dispatch center where I used to work. KFH681. Took me a about 1.5 seconds. I then timed myself using what our county fire dispatchers have to say after toning. Kent County clear at 1806 hours. KQG490. 4 seconds. I really don't see the big deal. Sorry.
 

Lt.214

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
600
Southwest Ohio USA
I really don't see the big deal. Sorry.

The original topic was why stations have to ID themselves.I guess this have drifted off topic a bit, but how each agency does it is completely up to them and depending on how each agency operates, it may not be a big deal. If a dispatcher is having an increased call volume and depending on the staffing levels, this can be just 1 more thing for them to do that can be handled by a machine. An example is if your dispatch center has 3 dispatchers on duty to handle all the phone lines(9 1 1 and non emergency), run record checks, handle all radio traffic between the county sheriff units and or other police agencies operating on the sheriff system, and multiple fire agencies, they get overloaded quickly. This is true where I live. Which leads to missed radio calls. I am not putting blame on any 1 part of the system or the dispatchers, just a fact of life in my little part of the world. Not every PSAP has 10 to 12 people on duty to handle the load and not every PSAP needs that. So if your dispatch deals with just 1 agency ( City X dispatch that deals with police and fire for their city alone) verbal station ID may not be an issue at all, where as it could be a burden to other agencies that handle multiple agencies at the same time.


Regarless of how each agency ID's itself, they are required to do so be the FCC. This includes HAM radio operators and any repeaters that they operate.


Sorry if this got too off topic.


Chris
 

NPS Ranger

Member
May 21, 2010
1,990
Penn's Woods
If your agency does automatic Morse ID with no PL, you may not even be aware it's happening, that's the easiest way and takes the workload off the dispatchers.
 

Lt.214

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
600
Southwest Ohio USA
by NPS Ranger » 29 Sep 2010, 14:40

If your agency does automatic Morse ID with no PL, you may not even be aware it's happening, that's the easiest way and takes the workload off the dispatchers.


+1. By far the easiest an most efficient way to ID a station.


Chris
 

wkr518

Member
May 22, 2010
955
42.791127, -73.679758
Near us only smaller Village and Town dispatchers announce thier FCC callsigns when transmitting during radios calls ,radio checks and during Capital District Emerg Radio Network radio checks. The Fire types usually announce thier base FCC callsign when calling County Fire control to aknowldge calls.


Also the FCC fines that were posted are real, and they are the daily fine per violation. In my short 10 years of working in radio field I have only seen 2 FCC fines levied against violators.
 

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