FS Quality?

[cybercop]

We have a fleet of 5 cars with Legends and 5 cars with ILS interior bars, all almost 3 yrs old. So far all of the Legends have had LEDs and takedowns go out and FS has sent out replacement modules. Only one of the ILS is starting to experiencing trouble with two of the red leds going out. FS is going to send a replacement module.


We had W Liberty before on the old fleet and never had a problem. I think we called W 2x during the life of that total fleet.


I'm kind of apprehensive about our new fleet with the Valor. Hope we don't have that many headaches with it.


Is this a common problem with FS? It gets kind of annoying having to call FS for warranty work on less than 3 yr old lights.

 

[Autobot Cruiser]

Sounds alot like FS. Had similar problems with other agencies with Legends and even more so with the Arjents. Smart sirens aren't much more reliable either. To be fair I've installed a few Valors and have yet to hear problems with them. Then again, there only about a year old.

 

[EMT-BLS]

Smart sirens aren't much more reliable either.

I've sold, done minor repairs on, and installed hundreds of Smart Sirens, plenty of which were extremely old (using LED lights as the ratio), that worked fine with no hitches or issues. It has not been my experience that they are not reliable, I've found them to be workhorses (which require sensitivity, too. ).

 

[got_yogurt]

I've got to say I've been disappointed with our Legends... in a fleet of 8 we've had to replace a quarter of the lightbar in 5 of them. Used to be under warranty but now its costing us $225 a pop. Usually its the one of the 3-LED modules in the 9-LED corners that go first. Now we are having entire 6-LED modules in the front and rear burn out. Very frustrating.


Here's a video of the latest one requiring replacement, its got a 3-LED and 6-LED out:

 

[mdlighting]

Here is our county cars legend with the burnt out modules I took off the top dome and found some green colored corrosion on top of the modules that are burnt out, obviously a moisture problem

 

[LED]

We were 100% fedsig, now 100% Whelen due to quality issues. They may have a great warranty but its a pain to keep sending important elements in for repair. I find the Whelen to be more durable all around.

 

[C2Installs]

It makes me sad...but, yeah.


I am also starting to accumulate a significant number of SS2000SM units with problems. Lots of slide switches ragged out and a bunch of bad relay boards.


I no longer RMA them, as they are near or past warranty. FedSig's non-warranty work is not too bad on cost, but it adds up and shipping is expensive. Plus we have moved away from their lightbars and the SS2000SM isn't very useful for two-wire arrows.


Seriously, I could easily find 15-20 SS2000SM units laying around here. Just from my PD fleet and customers I've repaired them for. Not saying they are junk, just disposable. Like everything else, I guess.

 

[code4services.com]

If you deal with enough products you will find they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I like the FS product but have a problem with their sales tactics. They sell direct to those who would otherwise buy from Code 4 and then suspend Code 4's account for not selling enough. This has me scratching my head. :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

 

[paff2]

The few Federal products I have had have been good to me. Although we now have a command vehicle with mostly Federal products so we shall see.


I am changing my opinion slightly on Whelen products since we have had a number of their lights go out on our tanker. They do take care of replacing them but still a LED with sections burnt out in alittle over 2 years with medium not heavy duty use????

 

[Sigma Safety]

I've got to say I've been disappointed with our Legends... in a fleet of 8 we've had to replace a quarter of the lightbar in 5 of them. Used to be under warranty but now its costing us $225 a pop. Usually its the one of the 3-LED modules in the 9-LED corners that go first. Now we are having entire 6-LED modules in the front and rear burn out. Very frustrating.

Here's a video of the latest one requiring replacement, its got a 3-LED and 6-LED out:

It sounds like I owe you a TH.....


Note that we have had some issues with moisture/corrosion in the Legends, but only the older ones (2007-2010). FS changed the base design in more recent bars (removed a bunch of vents) and those bars have been very reliable. I won't go into detail but FS has been extremely good about fixing the problems and working with the customer to prevent them from happening again.


Another comment - 3-4 years ago, the FS group had a president come in (from Ford). His first move was to outsource the manufacturing of nearly everything, including circuit boards. He cost the company a TON of money (and likely a number of customers). He got fired (with a $200,000 severance) and they restructured the company. A few of the FS people referred to his tenure at the company as the "dark days". He also thought that laying off all the sales people would save the company money.. Now, the senior engineers, who are passionate about warning systems, have taken over as GM's of the various divisions. I know them personally and they are extremely smart, dedicated people with a very high level of integrity.


Since the ex-Ford president left, FedSig has brought their production back in-house. They make their own circuit boards for pretty much every light (including bars). Our experience is that this has led to a reduction in order times, and increased quality levels. Business is way up at FS over the last couple years (share prices have doubled, too) so they have to be doing something right.

 

[Eric1249]

I have had a few Smart Sirens. (now Touchmaster Delta) I never had any issues with the SS. I had a a couple of the dual color Impaxx with a few issues.

 

[Emergency Sight & Sound]

Being so far away from the US choosing the right brand to stock is critical and mistakes have been made and leart from which some of you who I have spoken with will know what I'm referring to.


Now we carry Federal Signal and it's full steam ahead and I have to say whenever we make a phone call to Illinois in the early hours of the morning the Sales or Service team are a great bunch of people to deal with.


We are running Vision SLR's and Valors on our Company demonstrators with some Valor's also out in the field on demo and it's all good news from the customer feedback and their durability.


One Valor in particular is working in a fairly harsh environment involving coal mining and it doesn't miss a beat.


The FS Viper EXT's have been on my demo car for two years now and have never missed a beat.


As far as Whelen is concerned I have used their products many many years ago with a batch of 9M's and they did a great job but Whelen is so hard to access in Aust due to the cost under the WoodWay arrangement.


As for FS I'm sold on the construction and output and the service is top notch from a group of people that take their products personally.


Cheers,


DJ

 

[iceman4122]

It sounds like I owe you a TH.....

Note that we have had some issues with moisture/corrosion in the Legends, but only the older ones (2007-2010). FS changed the base design in more recent bars (removed a bunch of vents) and those bars have been very reliable. I won't go into detail but FS has been extremely good about fixing the problems and working with the customer to prevent them from happening again.


Another comment - 3-4 years ago, the FS group had a president come in (from Ford). His first move was to outsource the manufacturing of nearly everything, including circuit boards. He cost the company a TON of money (and likely a number of customers). He got fired (with a $200,000 severance) and they restructured the company. A few of the FS people referred to his tenure at the company as the "dark days". He also thought that laying off all the sales people would save the company money.. Now, the senior engineers, who are passionate about warning systems, have taken over as GM's of the various divisions. I know them personally and they are extremely smart, dedicated people with a very high level of integrity.

Can you do me a favor and ask one of these senior engineers what's the deal with their Viper dash lights? Nothing worse than seeing countless police cars with front and rear vipers with LEDs out everywhere. Thanks!

 

[EVT]

Can you do me a favor and ask one of these senior engineers what's the deal with their Viper dash lights? Nothing worse than seeing countless police cars with front and rear vipers with LEDs out everywhere. Thanks!

X2, wasted many dollars on Vipers that failed. I will never buy Fed Sig products again and advise my customers away from them.

 

[EMT-BLS]

X2, wasted many dollars on Vipers that failed. I will never buy Fed Sig products again and advise my customers away from them.

It's amazing to watch the NYPD, a organization with literally billions of dollars, run around with 3 LED's working out a Viper, or having half a Vision SL dead. It makes them look downright unprofessional. It's to incorporate a company's lights that don't die the second they're installed.

 

[Sigma Safety]

Can you do me a favor and ask one of these senior engineers what's the deal with their Viper dash lights? Nothing worse than seeing countless police cars with front and rear vipers with LEDs out everywhere. Thanks!

The tech I spoke to said that they had a period on older Viper S2's where the solder wasn't getting hot enough in the manufacturing process to properly solder the LEDs down. He didn't know the time frames off the top of his head, but said 'older' ones. If the units were sent back to FS, they'd reflow the LEDs. He also said the newer ones don't have this problem.


I've not experienced this problem in any significant way, so I can only repeat what the tech said.

 

[Outsider]

Also don't forget about the Lumileds issue between mid 2009 and mid 2010. Nearly 20% failure rate of red and white diodes that left their factory. This is the diode problem that accounted for a LOT of Whelen hundred series and M series fixture problems. I would imagine FS and Code 3 also had some of these bad diodes in their products as well. That is something that is completely out of the control of the lighting manufacturers. Especially since the failures started to come up after a year or so of use. The important thing is the companies standing behind the failures and replacing the lights with the least amount of hassle possible.

 

[Autobot Cruiser]

I've sold, done minor repairs on, and installed hundreds of Smart Sirens, plenty of which were extremely old (using LED lights as the ratio), that worked fine with no hitches or issues. It has not been my experience that they are not reliable, I've found them to be workhorses (which require sensitivity, too. ).

Well I've had the exact opposite experience with them. Constant failure rate and most haven't gone past a few years. And before you say its an install issue, this has come up on agencies where we only do maintenance work as well. I'm glad they've worked out for you, but they haven't for me and many agencies i build and maintain. Now TM4's on the other hand were some of the most reliable sirens I've ever delt with. Had a very low failure rate and tough as nails. Good siren. Personally, i think FS siren have the best tones out there. Very distinctive. But if the failure rate is going to be high then their no point.

If you deal with enough products you will find they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I like the FS product but have a problem with their sales tactics. They sell direct to those who would otherwise buy from Code 4 and then suspend Code 4's account for not selling enough. This has me scratching my head. :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

This is very true. all have their pros and cons and in the end, its finding out your/their needs and seeing which fits the bill best.

 

[ddemlong]

I recently ran into an issue earlier this month with my viper S2. It just suddenly decided it did not want to save flash patterns any more. I mailed it off to them I think like 1-2 weeks ago. I called yesterday and found out they hadn't even looked at it yet which was disappointing.


The sad thing is my Viper was only a about 1.5 months old. Got it December and failed in February.


Would really suck if say I had a POV and this was my front light and had no back up. Customer service is a bit slow IMO. I was surprised that when I included a note in there and requested a call they actually did call! So, a plus to them for that Customer Service Rep.

 

[VolEms]

I agree with the OP. Fed Sig's leds are not bright and they burn out. I only use the SS2000 since its a popular item in NY. As far as LEDs go I have never sold Fed Sig LEDs don't plan to in the near future. I sell Tomar Whelen and SOS LEDs. Just look at the NYPD RMPs there are so many with LEDs out.

 

[11b101abn]

I loved my Legend, but with all of the issues, I had to put a Liberty on my car instead. Still a huge fan of their stuff, but the water intrusion issues have mad me a bit gun shy about their light bars.