bburnette252
Member
Glock 23 as duty weapon.
- Thread starter bburnette252
- Start date
Tiller245
Member
I've never carried a Glock (not yet) but I highly recommend Glock not only for reliability but for user friendly interface and little maitence. In my book it's the AK-47 of hand guns cause you can beat the hell out of it and it will go bang every time the pin hits the brass. Just me sure people will disagree but most agree
JohnMarcson
Administrator
bburnette252 said:
I will compare it to a 22 for reference as that's a standard glock LE sidearm. The 23 is designed as a firearm you can carry open for duty or concealed. I think it tries to be both and does neither well, but my LE friend says on a smaller person it's easier to open carry. It's just Slightly smaller, so it comes with the built in pros or cons of that for your shooting style and hand size. The line of sight is shorter, but maybe not enough to matter depending on various factors. The Mag size varies, so that may not be a factor. Go to a store and hold one compared to a 22. The weapon you are comfortable holding is the way to go.
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I carry it... I disagree with john about the "compromise" part... only difference between the 23 and 22 is physical size... I have small hands, so the smaller grip doesn't = compact to me... if you have large hands a compromised grip may hinder shooting (having to scrunch up n it) however if your hands are small enough to not have to, there's no reason why its not equally or even more effective... it also weighs a little less which is a perk to me... only negative is its 1/2" shorter... but I'm not trying to shoot 100 yards either... have an AR-15 for that... it's been a while since I bought it so I can't remember for sure but I believe the glock 23 LE package comes with the 3 15 or 17 round mags rather than the 13 mentioned above... (but I have so many mags I don't remember which came with what)
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Flashguy
Member
I carry the 23 for my concealed. I think it's great, reliable and perfect for concealed carry. I would not want it to be a primary weapon for LEO purposes. Concealed means I'm only pulling it to defend my life, which typically means shorter distances and faster pulls from concealed. For primary LEO, I think a larger gun with less kick and better/more accurate longer distance is a better choice. Most of this is opinions ofcourse. Best advice - find a range that lets you try out different guns. Most will let you do that but you have to buy their ammo. Good luck, be safe!
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Flashguy said:
Just because he owns the site doesn't mean I can't disagree with his opinion respectfully =]
so you think 1/2" difference in length makes much of a difference in kick and distance? they do also have a Glock 23C which is the "compensated" version if the 23 kicks too much...
I mean if you think the 1/2" shorter makes that much of a difference, why not carry a g35... specs compared below...
If you think about it, ANY pistol is a compromise... I mean a .223 is far superior for longer distances... but that's a compromise too... a .338 Lapua is even more superior... but wait that doesn't have the punch of a .50 BMG round... so that's a compromise as well... and speaking of compromises, isn't the .40 a compromise round? no where near the punch of a .45 but not as fast as a .357, etc.... And yes Glocks do come in 357 (the 31, 32, 33) you just pick the compromise that is best for your situation...
PJD642
New Member
I'd carry a G35 if that was an option...Safariland even makes duty holsters for them 
My agency issues both G22 and G23, based on individual officer preference. Anecdotally, the folks w/ smaller hands seem to chose the 23, as do the non-uniformed folks. For all intents and purposes the guns are the same. See if you can try both and chose which ever one feels best to you.
My agency issues both G22 and G23, based on individual officer preference. Anecdotally, the folks w/ smaller hands seem to chose the 23, as do the non-uniformed folks. For all intents and purposes the guns are the same. See if you can try both and chose which ever one feels best to you.I hate my Glock 22, but I can conceal it without any issues. I have never been a Glock fan whatsoever and I only have one because my Chief made that a requirement for all officers.
Retired1
Member
MEVS06 said:
Booo, Hissssss, where is my 'razzberries - tongue sticking' out smilie? Anyone have any rotten tomatoes I can throw?
Joe, You cannot possibly deny that the Glock 22 is one of the all time best duty pistols ever put into service to date. Granted, its not pretty, but boy is it functional....!!!!! Oh wait, I remember now - you are in SOUTH Texas. That explains it. Your chief is one super smart fellow. Heed his advice. (its a good thing you are my friend, otherwise I would rant on and on about this and maybe even take you off of my wife's notification list for her "After he's gone" barn stuff sale- lol).
I started carrying a Glock 17 in the mid 1980s. I switched to a Glock 22 when they were introduced in the early 1990s. I still have that gun and I still carry it for my primary weapon (as I have ever since I bought it). It has seen service in every possible environment and 1,000s of rounds of ammo through it. Last month, I finally bought new night sights as the half life of the original nights sights had gone to 1/4 life, then 1/10 life, and, finally, I had to use a flashlight to see if the sights were even still on the pistol.... My new night sight are green and orange dot Mepro sights. I like them better than the Trijicons.
My only regret is not having a G35. I am too old to justify buying one now, but, if I win the Lotto, it will be high on my priority buy list. Glock 35 | G35 | 357 Pistol | GLOCK USA
To address the topic: I think the Model 22 is the better choice for me personally. I agree with PJD642 that the potential user should try both and see which one is ergonomically superior for that individual user and is conducive to better accuracy by way of best hand fit.
crescentstar69
Member
I carried a compact model 30 after first carrying the full sized Glock 21. I used the 21 magazines in the 30 with a grip extender. In the holster, you couldn't see much of a difference, as it looked like a full sized gun. And remarkably, I shot better with the compact. Pop out the longer mag and insert the regular compact mag, and it got small again for CCW.
Our range guys thought I had a screw loose when they first saw what I was doing, but they not only grew to accept the idea, but one of them started doing the same with the 23 using 22 mags.
Our range guys thought I had a screw loose when they first saw what I was doing, but they not only grew to accept the idea, but one of them started doing the same with the 23 using 22 mags.
San Antonio PD is transitioning to S&W MP.40 S&W. When talking with a friend of mine who works with them he said S&W sold SAPD the pistol w/3 mags and a level 3 holster for $8 each just to get the contract. They are also purchasing the MP15 patrol rifles.
Chief I do acknowledge the Glock is a great duty weapon even though I do not like it.
Chief I do acknowledge the Glock is a great duty weapon even though I do not like it.
mcpd2025
Member
We carry the G22 as duty weapons, I love mine. It is solid, dependable, easy to break down, hard to damage... Good gun. My off duty is a G19, same size as the G23 I believe. I like it, I trust its aim and actually shoot it BETTER than my G22. If you like it and your dept authorizes, go for it! My only concern would be number of rounds. If you can get 15+ round mags, go for it!
Before someone chimes in that they used to work with a 6 shooter and speedloaders, we police different now and have vastly different threats. I think 40 rounds MINIMUM should be carried in mags on an officers body. Wouldn't hurt to have another box of 50 in the car. You never know when you will be in a Hollywood bank shootout, Columbine incident, Navyyard shooting, etc.
Before someone chimes in that they used to work with a 6 shooter and speedloaders, we police different now and have vastly different threats. I think 40 rounds MINIMUM should be carried in mags on an officers body. Wouldn't hurt to have another box of 50 in the car. You never know when you will be in a Hollywood bank shootout, Columbine incident, Navyyard shooting, etc.
MEVS06 said:
haha that's surprising... most departments I know of in TX are even ok with carrying 1911's! I still like my glock 23... I have a hogue grip sleeve on it and its super comfortable... the regular gen 3 glock's aren't the best feeling guns to begin with... but I know every time I pull the trigger it will fire.... even some of the limp wristed prissy girls I went through the academy with couldn't stovepipe the glocks... one cheaped out and got the S&W sigma (which has a REALLY heavy trigger pull), even though they look like knock off glocks, and was jamming at least once a box... glock will fire anything, while clean or dirty, and not jam... so it's perfect for LE work... it's definitely not the best feeling gun or the prettiest gun, but I trust em with my life... and both of the departments I work for allow the choice of G22 or G23's (in addition to some other guns)...
Another food for thought on it, the 1/2" shorter barrel may make very long distance accuracy lesser, but the 1/2" shorter grip also provides a bad guy less grip if they are trying to pry it out of your holster too
IDK where y'all work but I'll take the gun retention perks over a 100 yard accuracy perk any day...Here's a thread from officer.com on the same subject... if you want to be spared the click, almost every reply was someone saying their dept had a choice between them or that they owned both but they shot the G23 better: Glock 23 Accuracy
Another food for thought... a 1/2" barrel difference will likely make less than 1" difference in grouping at 50 yards.... when was the last time you took your pistol out to 50 yards? 100 yards? the type of ammo you use will be more of a factor than barrel length
JohnMarcson
Administrator
minig0d said:
I am wrong sometimes... and opinions can vary. I encourage the debate. I don't carry at work. My opinion is hardly the final word on firearms. Honestly, minig0d makes good points and explained them well.
This is a discussion board... me weighing in only end arguments about site business. Refute my assertions for your amusement and the betterment of the community people!!!
I should shoot and carry glocks more to form a better opinion honestly. I have occasionally carried glocks concealed and open for shoots and CCW purposes. I like the 21 for full size and the 30 for compact, so I've only shot my 22 or my buddy's 23 a handful of times. According to him the difference shouldn't matter to someone who practices with what ever glock they carry 922 or 23). I like .40 in general, but I often accuse .40 of aiming to be the best of both a 9mm and a .45 and being a stale compromise. Professional gun writers have very convincingly argued that .40 cal is the best of both the 9 and 45, and I'm no expert... so I'll concede that one.
JohnMarcson said:
nothing weird about shooting what ya like! or about having an opinion... you know what they say about opinions lol... I'm sure there is SOMEONE out there who carries and swears by a Hi-Point even... if it fits your hand, your shooting style, your lifestyle, and your budget... as the saying goes, a gun doesn't do you any good if you aren't carrying it... best thing to do is shoot what you like to shoot, practice practice practice... I'm sure there are guys with baby glocks that shoot a ton more than I do that are way more proficient than me with a full sized glock... while everyone in my academy shot .40's (mostly glock) or .45's (mostly 1911's or XD's), the guy who won "top shot" was shooting a Beretta 92 (9mm), larger relatively heavy pistol with smaller caliber round = extremely accurate, but obviously less takedown power...
I guess it goes back to the OP's question, you really need to evaluate your situation... if you are a wildlife and fisheries officer or border patrol who's out in the middle of no where and realistically may have to take extremely long range shots with a pistol if you happen to be out on foot and can't get to your vehicle where you have a longer range gun available, you may want to consider a longer barrel, a higher velocity round, a higher velocity caliber, etc... maybe a .357 +P round even?... whereas if you work in a urban area, say you work in the inner city and are in the housing projects a lot (I don't know if its the same where y'all are, but the projects here are extremely close quarters with very narrow hallways and tight corners, and paper thin walls), you may want a shorter barrel gun with a lot of stopping power (for close quarters in case they are right up on you and you don't have room to back up) like maybe a .45... but you then have to weigh in overpenetration on those thin walls... And I don't claim to be an expert either... there's too many factors to consider... I just carry a .40 because it's what 70% of law enforcement does, it's good enough, and less likely to get me sued... (yes lawyers love trying to pull stupid stuff like "oh he was using a [357/45/whatever other complaints they come up with]" round because blah blah blah...
So yes every gun is a compromise.... you try shooting a .45 out past 75 yards or so and the bullet starts tumbling rather than going straight... you'da been better off shooting anything but... but at close range you'd sure be glad you had the .45... the .40 is kind of a compromise caliber... but yeah that's a bit of a sidetrack... I guess to bring my ramble back on point... shoot whatever the hell feels the best in your hand... the more you like it, the more you're willing to practice with it and become proficient in it... and the more proficient you are, the higher the chance it will safe you or someone elses life one day =] /ENDOFRANT (and thanks John for letting me rant)
I carry a Glock 19 (same frame size as the 23, but in 9mm). The fullsize Glocks' grips are just too long for my boney, skinny fingers. I was the top shooter in my academy class with 100% hits, if that tells you how "inaccurate" the "shorter" (by 1/2") the sight radius is...
TritonBoulder47
Member
I've carried a G23 on duty for the last 9 years up until about 6 months ago. It's now just my truck gun (but still my favorite).
The 3rd generation G23 was a lot more comfortable to me than the G3 22. I was a better shot with it.
Since then I've bought a Gen4 G22. I'm not sure how much I like it, but I shoot just a little bit better with this one. I wouldn't want to do many extended range sessions with it.
I always carried the 15 round G22 mags on my belt as the additional and the original 13 round mag in the gun.
Try both. Get whichever you feel more comfortable with. As long as your are proficient with it and the department allows it, it doesn't matter one little bit.
Best situation is to get both!
My next one will be a G19, just because I like the size so well (but not for duty use).
The 3rd generation G23 was a lot more comfortable to me than the G3 22. I was a better shot with it.
Since then I've bought a Gen4 G22. I'm not sure how much I like it, but I shoot just a little bit better with this one. I wouldn't want to do many extended range sessions with it.
I always carried the 15 round G22 mags on my belt as the additional and the original 13 round mag in the gun.
Try both. Get whichever you feel more comfortable with. As long as your are proficient with it and the department allows it, it doesn't matter one little bit.
Best situation is to get both!
My next one will be a G19, just because I like the size so well (but not for duty use).
jprleedy4680
Member
There shouldn't be a question...shoot Sig. :razz:
I actually ordered a G23 because I was looking for a combined, on and off-duty use pistol; G23 seemed like the best option. P226 that is issued to me is too big for off-duty and I wanted a double-stack .40 that fit my smaller hands well. My personal CCP is a P290RS, but again, I wanted to have the option of a little extra firepower.
Prices aside though, if I had ~$870 to spend on a sidearm, I would purchase a P229R DAK. I have no complaints about the issued 226 other than the large size. To me, it seems that the Sig Sauer is an all-around more refined, superiorly manufactured firearm than most other handguns on the market.
Just throwing in my $0.02!
I actually ordered a G23 because I was looking for a combined, on and off-duty use pistol; G23 seemed like the best option. P226 that is issued to me is too big for off-duty and I wanted a double-stack .40 that fit my smaller hands well. My personal CCP is a P290RS, but again, I wanted to have the option of a little extra firepower.
Prices aside though, if I had ~$870 to spend on a sidearm, I would purchase a P229R DAK. I have no complaints about the issued 226 other than the large size. To me, it seems that the Sig Sauer is an all-around more refined, superiorly manufactured firearm than most other handguns on the market.
Just throwing in my $0.02!
jprleedy4680
Member
I've been carrying various Glocks for almost 20 years. I've carried the 19 and 23 and never had a problem with either. I prefer the 23 because of the larger bullet diameter the .40 offers. I care more about shot placement and wound channel damage over bullet capacity.
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Phillyrube
Member
Glock 17 as a duty weapon, backed up with a Glock 26. restricted by agency due to the 9mm. I like mine just fine, fits the saying "Combat Tupperware." It goes bang every time, and we train in situations where water, sand, mud etc can be present. I like the .40 round and if I had my choice I would carry that. .357 sig is also a nice round. Whatever you get, you'll do fine.
PJD642
New Member
jprleedy4680 said:
Sigs are very nice, but for basic training and non-gun people (which a lot of cops are), the Glock is much better. Same trigger pull every time, no need to remember to decock before holstering, and because the slide rails are so much smaller, there's less surface area to build up crud which means they tolerate dirt and grime better, and require less lube to function properly. When my former Agency was testing various pistol to determine our new duty weapons, we tried Sig, Smith, Glock, Ruger...the Sig P220 did very well, but started stovepiping/not going into battery at about 800 rounds due to the amount of grime on the rails. The G21 we were shooting fired a documented 4,300+ rounds without a single cleaning or malfunction.
Phillyrube said:
I'd actually "downgrade" (tongue in cheek) to a 17 if I were allowed. Faster shot/shot recovery time, 2 more rounds in the same package, less recoil for smaller stature officers... There are plenty of good 9mm rounds out there. Cleveland PD switched to Glocks several years ago, and stayed with the 9mm instead of moving to the .40. They're using Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P rounds, with EXCELLENT results. Shot placement is key, everything else is a bonus.
jprleedy4680
Member
PJD642 said:
Devil's Advocate:
Is one going to crack off 800 rounds through a handgun in a gunfight, and why, for any reason, would one not regularly and properly clean and maintain their service weapon? Particularly after every deployment?
jprleedy4680 said:
I would think he meant that since many police officers utilize guns as tools, whereas "gun guys" are way more obsessive about exacting maintenance and making sure every nook and cranny is crud-free, that they feel Glock is more tolerant of poorer maintenance... and yes there are a lot of cops out there who don't know a whole lot about guns, don't care, or know but are just too lazy to properly maintain them... Glocks fire under water, crammed with sand, etc... this is grapevine material but I've heard Glocks are more sensitive to TOO MUCH oil than never being oiled... which would make them more valuable if an agency doesn't trust it's officers to keep up with the maintenance... Again I don't consider the Glock the ultimate gun in the world type thing... as someone above mentioned it's combat tupperwear... may not be the prettiest, best feeling, etc... but they go bang when you need them to
I haven't had much range time on Sig's but they do feel really good in the hand and really nice control-wise... and they are obviously pretty good guns based on reputation... pick from whatever your agency lets you carry, the one you like the best and are most comfortable with... if you are comfortable with a Sig, proficient with it, and want to take responsibility for necessary cleaning, nothing at all wrong with that! I don't think I've seen an agency yet that allows officers to pick from a list and doesn't have Glock on that list, though... (some obviously issue specific non-Glocks, but I mean agencies that allow a choice)...
Phillyrube
Member
jprleedy4680 said:
One of my sergeantly duties is equipment inspections. I always find a dirty gun, and some of the ankle backup guns are chock full of hair, lint, etc. Like everyone else, cops are sometime lazy! I also work in a beach town, and we have had tussles in the sand.
FireEMSPolice
Member
PJD642
New Member
jprleedy4680 said:
If you're firing 800 (or even 80) rounds in a gunfight, especially through a handgun, then my heart goes out to you because you're obviously in a world of hurt. But seriously, minig0d and Phillyrube hit it on the head. I was in charge of the firearms unit at my former agency for about 10 years. Bigger agency, 90+ cops. We had everything from the uber-tactical guys who detail stripped their gun blindfolded every week to the guys who only removed the gun from their holster to qualify twice a year. And every qualification session (before the Glocks were issued, when people carried whatever they wanted, within reason), I'd have at least one person who's gun would malf due to not enough lube on the rails. Stovepiping, not going into battery, etc. I carried a bottle of frog-lube in my pocket, and would pop the slide off and lube the gun on the line before doing any other diagnostics. Solved the problem 99.5% of the time. Then when I stripped the gun afterwards, there was always lint and crud everywhere. When we switched to Glock, that problem went away.
All I'm saying is that Glocks to me are the most dependable guns I've found, and stand up to mistreatment and neglect very well. Sigs are very nice - I've carried a P220 and a P229 (.45 and .40, respectively) and they were both very accurate and felt good in my hand. Heck, I'd be retro and carry a 1911 in a heartbeat if I was allowed to do so. But then I clean and maintain my guns regularly, and unfortunately you're gonna always have that one guy who doesn't.
jprleedy4680
Member
Phillyrube
Member