If its not LED.....its obsolete????

[chief1562]

We are using an ancient system that is being updated 1st quarter of this year that SHOULD do this. I'll post on how it goes through the third quarter but in house inventory isn't accurate so I doubt it will be much better lol

Finally updating from the Dewey system are you?

 

[Flashguy]

As Bob Dylan said, "The Times They Are a Changing"

Wait...who said that? I thought that was from The Anchorman.


:haha:

 

[Sirennet]

Wait...who said that? I thought that was from The Anchorman.

:haha:

Ron Burgundy - Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina.





Ron Burgundy - Great Odin's raven!

 

[Skip Goulet]

I mentioned this before in another post about how I was at a 5 alarm fire with 50+ emergency vehicles (Fire & police) and only one single command SUV that was a early 2000 did not have LED lighting. This command vehicle was a Expedition with a Whelen Edge strobe and other deck strobes. Everything else, police, ambulance, command SUV, engines, ladders, etc were all LED. So yeah I can understand why a distributor is not stocking strobe lights or halogen lights anymore. It is sad to see as I prefer good old halogen lights, but times change and companies follow those changes.

Until recently MFD's batt.-mobile was a Suburban with a Streethawk. Now they're running a Tahoe (like everyone else around here) that has LEDs all over it. The LEDs are nice and highly visible, but look what we taxpayers are paying for. One of the nicest looking units I've seen is the Tahoe for the Batt. Chiefs in Odessa, It's white over red and has an LED bar along with other LEDs front, rear, sides, etc., along with a Whelen electronic and an Eagle siren mounted into the bumper. I was quite skeptical when Odessa started running the Eagles on all their medics, but they're a bit louder than I would've expected!


As to beacons and strobes being obsolete....so what? Look how damned many Qs and other motor-driven sirens got tossed years ago because the electronic sirens were the thing to have. And now Federal and B&M are producing their big sirens as fast as they can turn them out.

 

[markko]

I still prefer hideaway strobes over hideaway LEDs. I've had them on my POV since I bought it in 2001. Clear strobe tubes are in the front turn signal housings and in the back-up and brake light housings. Everyone compliments me on how effective they are. I use a two-head Whelen Avenger (red/white with headliner mount) for my primary warning. I also have halogen Federal GH1 lights mounted to a Waag rear bumper guard. The red one is a rear fog light and the white one is a back-up light; they're dioded and connected to an alternating flasher to double as secondary warning lights.


I have a Code 3 #420 magnetic beacon (clear dome with red reflector covers) for times I need extra warning, which isn't often.

 

[Flashguy]

Agreed...during the daytime there isn't an LED HAW that will keep up with strobes. At night time, I'd say the LED HAW's (if installed well) can keep up and are better due to draw.

 

[delcofirecop]

wow man much different out here most new trucks come from the dealer with led bars and most guys who switch to led aftermarket are running whelen towmans edge bars or justice bars very few strobes or rotators except on the older older mom and pop trucks.

Thank you "Sirennet" for chiming in. From now on I will be calling direct before hand to find out whats available and when. My only gripe is there was no way to tell until the transaction was complete. I was hoping I'd get one quick being that your 6 hrs from me, but I wasn't aware of the strobe situation so lesson learned.

As far as the "obsolete" part.....we agree to disagree LOL. Perhaps that is true in terms of fire/police markets, but not in the towing industry. There are a total of 3.....yes 3 LED lightbars on towing equipment in the entire city of Spokane. That's 34 towing companies (all of them) still using strobe and Halogen products. Im sure the same could be said for many major cities throughout the US, as the towing industy is very volatile and an unstable market. Its not financially reasonable for fleet owners (without taxpayer funding) to be dropping thousands of dollars on the latest and greatest trends in emergency lighting. I'm sure you already understand this, but this it where it starts to seem like the industry is going to be force-fed these products, because why sell a $70 light when you could sell a $400 light instead.


Matt

 

[lightnerd]

I think that there is a good combination of Strobe, LED and Halogen that work. I LOVE clear strobe HAWs over LED HAW, and I still love the MX7000, I think its still a good useful bar, but my favorite combination would be the Whelen Patriot. Strobes, LED, and flashing Halogen TD and alley. I think it covers all bases well and is very effective.

Definitely agree with this, in regards to the strobe HAWs vs. the LED HAWs. For a directional spread, it's hard to beat an exposed strobe tube even if it does draw more power.

 

[Station 3]

I don't know about you guys but im not into LED technology.. the only reason I use LED technology in my patrol car is because I will be written up by the LT if I use strobe or halogen lights on my patrol car... Trust me I already tried to get rid of my led lightbar and install a Code 3 Exalibure on my crown vic. If I ever become a SGT or brass in this department the first thing I will do is take my unit to the shop and remove that damn led lightbar and install a REAL lightbar. Something that stands out and does not look like a damn clone of everything else on the streets these days.


And as far as my POV goes the only reason I don't have a Jetsonic or code 3 exalibure on that is because I don't want to stick a lightbar on my daily driver so I settle for LEDs.


I was actually pretty upset when our volunteer fire department removed all the perfectly good MX7000,s and Code 3 Exalibures and strobe and halogen perimeter lights from our fire trucks and replaced them with Axixtech LED lightbars and Whelen 700 5mm heads which I shit you not around 50% of them at this very moment have some leds burnt out and it look like crap.. and for a department this small where a simple fix to replace a strobe tube or halogen head that I can do with a screw driver and a few minutes at the station has now become a big thing since we have to replace the entire head now and wait a few days or weeks with a lighthead missing wating for some company to ship a replacement.

 

[kitn1mcc]

there is no need to change out Vehicles with good lighting systems to LEDS its a waste of money


LEDS are good for Plow and Service trucks

 

[rwo978]

there is no need to change out Vehicles with good lighting systems to LEDS its a waste of money

Yes

LEDS are good for Plow

Yes & No - yes, lower power. No, don't melt snow on lights like halogen

Service trucks

Yes

 

[SirenWorld.com]

I'd be upset if my agency removed good lights and replaced them with Axixtech too:duh:

 

[K9Vic]

I'd be upset if my agency removed good lights and replaced them with Axixtech too:duh:

Agreed, I have three with moisture in them as they cannot hold up to the elements (2-Par36 & 1-Linear 6). They Par36 still work, but the linear 6 has 3 that are low output due to the water.

 

[Kbonk15]

there is no need to change out Vehicles with good lighting systems to LEDS its a waste of money

I Have to disagree, it is smart to replace halogen and strobes on older rigs because it lessens the load on the truck electrical system and can lead to less problems down the road. Not all departments have the luxury of replacing there rigs every 10-15 years. The rescue in my department is a Mack from the 80's and we are currently retrofitting the brake, reverse, and turn lights and are looking in to option for retrofitting the emergency lights. In order to lessen the load on the electrical system.

 

[markko]

I just priced out a Whelen 400 head for a POV project. The 40R02ZCR (warning light LED) was cheaper than the same light with a halogen bulb. I never thought I'd see the day that LED was cheaper than incandescent.

 

[RyanZ71]

I Have to disagree, it is smart to replace halogen and strobes on older rigs because it lessens the load on the truck electrical system and can lead to less problems down the road. Not all departments have the luxury of replacing there rigs every 10-15 years. The rescue in my department is a Mack from the 80's and we are currently retrofitting the brake, reverse, and turn lights and are looking in to option for retrofitting the emergency lights. In order to lessen the load on the electrical system.

Oh I don't know, keep in mind most emergency rigs and vehicles were made to handle that load just fine with the higher output alternator and what not. Nothing dissapoints me more than to see an old in service emergency rig with fancy shancy LEDs that really just "don't belong" there. It's like throwing a LED on an old late 70s early 80s Plymouth Furry or 86-90 Caprice, you just don't do it.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Oh I don't know, keep in mind most emergency rigs and vehicles were made to handle that load just fine with the higher output alternator and what not. Nothing dissapoints me more than to see an old in service emergency rig with fancy shancy LEDs that really just "don't belong" there. It's like throwing a LED on an old late 70s early 80s Plymouth Furry or 86-90 Caprice, you just don't do it.

I don't necessarily mind seeing older apparatus upgraded to LED, but don't always agree in EVERY case. If doing a renovation/antique restoration obviously I say stick with original equipment, but as long as it is tasteful and appropriate, I think its appropriate to upgrade older apparatus.

 

[Kbonk15]

Oh I don't know, keep in mind most emergency rigs and vehicles were made to handle that load just fine with the higher output alternator and what not. Nothing dissapoints me more than to see an old in service emergency rig with fancy shancy LEDs that really just "don't belong" there. It's like throwing a LED on an old late 70s early 80s Plymouth Furry or 86-90 Caprice, you just don't do it.

True but that still doesn't change the fact that it is a rig from the 80's and the lights, and the chargers, and a the radios, strain the electrical system and LEDs would lessen the strain. We're not restoring a truck from the 20's and putting LEDs that's just stupid. We are retrofitting the lightning package on a ageing truck...

 

[evfd4822]

TI don't think I have seen a fire truck with a strobe on it in 5 years or more. Why the hell would anyone stock red strobe beacons???????

Almost every single unit in our county runs strobe or halo's! Only one of our grass trucks has an LED bar on it, some cheap chinese job that the encaps are pretty much just floppin around now because they were only held on by a couple of screws. Other grass trucks have an Edge strobe, Jetsonic halo, Streethawk halo we even have a reserve unit with the old dual beacon rotator setup! Our engine and tanker have strobe bars one is jetsolaris one is edge, our rescue has an Code 3 Excaliber on it. We have an ambulance/fire truck hybrid that has a code 3 mx7000. We also have a ladder truck with an Edge bar on it. As far as the other 12 VFD's in the county all pretty much the same story of maybe one truck in the fleet with an LED bar some don't even have one though. And we run one Paid dept with three stations in the county seat town I only know of one truck in their fleet with an LED bar it is the Battalion Chiefs expedition.


The tow services are the same story in the area maybe one LED bar per fleet if that.


The ambulance service and Law enforcement in the area are the other side of the spectrum however. You would be hard pressed to find a unit NOT running led on them. But they all look like clones. Almost every single one has a whelen liberty bar.

 

[acala91]

Putting personal preference aside, there is no denying that a properly designed LED warning system is more effective than strobe or halogen. The problem is, properly designed LED warning systems are few and far between. The majority I see are unsynced with crazy split fail patterns and tiny light heads put anywhere they will fit. For example, the newest ambulances we have at work have all Whelen 900 LEDs that are unsynced and on a super fast split flash that looks terrible. I much prefer the older trucks with all strobe lighting because it is all synced and still very effective and most importantly, not blinding.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

I am still a big believer/fan of strobe HAWs. LED HAWs just have not completely taken over for them yet! LEDs don't have that 'pop' like strobes do.


Strobes also disperse light in all directions, and can fill the reflector making it a good warning light, the LEDs are directional, and don't do the same as well.


Each have their own benefits, and I have LED HAWs, if I could have certain colors, I would have used strobes instead.


LEDs have come a long way, especially in HAW form, but I am still not 100% sold on them!

 

[CodeMan]

I JUST ran into the same problem at a Manufacturer's level today. The customer service agent (read as order taker) didn't know how to spec. out a custom strobe lightbar. I did find an "ol' timer" that finally knew how to place the order for what I was looking for. :suicide:

As a distributor, it's unfeasible to stock every model of every light/siren/radio we offer for sale. I do stock the most common part numbers, replaceable parts, etc. But, when I can get the exact model you want shipped out next day factory fresh, it just doesn't make sense to tie up that much money in inventory. Also, the less I pay to do business (storage, inventory financing, merchandising, etc), the less I can charge and still survive. My competitor locally sells the same brands I sell for about 30% more, but most likely earns less profit on the same product just because they stock it. Their slogan is, 'If you want it today, they have it.' I like to add to that by saying, 'If you want it today, they have it. And it'll cost you to get it."


On another hand, we sell CB Radios and accessories. Many radios are inexpensive to purchase and would be cost prohibitive to buy and ship individually. We absolutely stock those items.


StarSVP makes a Class 1 LED beacon, magnet mount, cig plug, in red for about $120 with a 5 year warranty. The part number is 240H8SLM. They can ship it out next day if you were interested...just sayin...


Here's a picture of beacon I mentioned in Amber.


View attachment 66063

Ive looked all over for a video of that light in action & the 200ZM, in day time & night, flash patterns ect to no avail. (would be cool for someone to post a vid. )


I remember when incadecent was the norm, then Halogen was the rage, then strobe, now LED. Remember when each came out the mixed reviews? lol the worst was the LED's in the begining, now look at them inexpencive to make & last just about forever. Not to mention everyone wants them and their prices are all over the place..


CB? whats that... J/K, I remember when those were the rage, then nextel/cell phones came along, and CB's slowly vanished from the IN scene.... still used by truckers and a few die hards in the public..


I believe looking at the current trend if its not LED it will be obsolete in the next few years...


Peterson still makes sealed beam rotators and ones like this 756.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Ive looked all over for a video of that light in action & the 200ZM, in day time & night, flash patterns ect to no avail. (would be cool for someone to post a vid. )

I remember when incadecent was the norm, then Halogen was the rage, then strobe, now LED. Remember when each came out the mixed reviews? lol the worst was the LED's in the begining, now look at them inexpencive to make & last just about forever. Not to mention everyone wants them and their prices are all over the place..


CB? whats that... J/K, I remember when those were the rage, then nextel/cell phones came along, and CB's slowly vanished from the IN scene.... still used by truckers and a few die hards in the public..


I believe looking at the current trend if its not LED it will be obsolete in the next few years...

While the new LED technology is really something else, I still see a place for the older incandescent lights. I see a lot of the older ambulances fire trucks that are still equipped with either the DoRay or Dietz lollipops..not to mention Federal or other beacons. All you have to do is attend a meet promoted by PCS or Professional Cars International to see some of these neat old vehicles and their old awesome lighting packages.

 

[CodeMan]

While the new LED technology is really something else, I still see a place for the older incandescent lights. I see a lot of the older ambulances fire trucks that are still equipped with either the DoRay or Dietz lollipops..not to mention Federal or other beacons. All you have to do is attend a meet promoted by PCS or Professional Cars International to see some of these neat old vehicles and their old awesome lighting packages.

I have to agree, the current shift to LED EVL that pulls less current from modern vehicles. But the old lighting sure was impressive, I'd beg and plead for a new model 184 on the roof...


It's to bad they didnt find a way to retro fit them and continue to sell the old tried and true 360* lighting..

 

[Sutphen 606]

In my humble opinion while LED's have distinct advantages such as service life while strobes and good old fashioned rotators still have a place in today's world. LED light bars produce ,depending on the bar, a very good amount of warning light and can be clearly seen day or night, but if not wired properly or used properly they can cause a few "issues". In particular is the low power setting. For instance there have been more than a few instances where i live where a law enforcement agency that uses libby's has had vehicles rear ended at night while on traffic stops because the lights blind the oncoming drivers. The low power option is not wired in on this agencies vehicles. Strobes put off excellent light during the night but can be drowned out by the sunlight during the day. I completely agree with Zapp that strobe HAW's have more of a pop than LED's. Old fashioned halogen rotator bars such as the MX7000 produce excellent warning day or night, but the have a major disadvantage in power draw. I believe that depending on the requirements you have all three have a place in today's world. I prefer a combination such as the patriot or a MX7K with LED or Strobe secondary lighting.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I have to agree, the current shift to LED EVL that pulls less current from modern vehicles. But the old lighting sure was impressive, I'd beg and plead for a new model 184 on the roof...

It's to bad they didnt find a way to retro fit them and continue to sell the old tried and true 360* lighting..

I agree with you on that. Texas DPS is using Code 3 LED bars on their cruisers with red/blue configurations, and you can see those cruisers for miles. But I wouldn't think of replacing the nice red 174 beacon on my '68 Olds ambulance with an LED beacon or bar. That having been said, and I think it was somewhere on this board, I recently saw a Federal Jr. beacon converted to LED. Not bad. The 1019 bulbs on the Junior provided a lot of light....especially with those magnifying lenses. Many years ago I came up with an old 6-volt Mars DL8 light that we decided to put on our first-ever ambulance for the volunteer group I was with in Lubbock. The light came with a small incandescent bulb. I had been given a Junior beacon at the time that would light up but not rotate. I would learn many years later that there was a faulty gear responsible. Anyway, we pulled the 1019 bulb out of the Junior and put it on the old Mars light, which we mounted front-center on the ambulance: '60 Chevy wagon. With the light itself being 6-volt we knew there was a chance of damaging the motor; but as luck would have it, we ran that old light on 12-volts for several years and on other vehicles with no problem. And with that big 1019 bulb mounted in the bulb-reflector ass'y, it was bright! One of my favorite stories concerning the old light I've recounted elsewhere on this board, but will repeat here. The old ambulance was equipped with the Mars light front center flanked by a pair of blue Carpenter lights, and a red 17 beacon behind the Mars light. The siren, a 77GB doubletone siren occupied the right fender, and there was a pair of red Unity lights on the bumper. Impressive for an old wreck...to say the least. In our very early days of working the local race track, we became used to seeing a police escort waiting for us when we came into the city on a run. We had been told by the track management that because we were "independent" we had to have an escort if he had to run "hot". We were later informed by one of our escorts that we didn't have to have an escort, so we advised track management to no longer call for one. So one Friday night we were leaving the track with a patient, and just as we reached the service road I noticed a sheriff's cruiser sitting at the small convenience store at the edge of the track property. The S.O. was running 1969 Ford Galaxies at the time with a VisiBar with twin red beacons and single CP25 speaker powered by an Interceptor. Suddenly that cruiser came to life and we had an escort! And it was all I could do to keep up with that big Ford!


Once we had completed our run and as we exited the ER, I saw that the deputy who had escorted was still there, and it turned out to be a friend of mine (go figure). So I went over and thanked him for the escort. His reply was: "Oh hell, Young'un, you didn't need me! That "f'in" "wobbly light" you have is so bright I almost had to turn my rearview mirror around." We all got a good laugh out of that one.....and no more escorts from that deputy!

 

[CodeMan]

I still think you just cant beat this, except a LED retro fit to lower amps.....


Model 184

Im sure some will say compairing apples to oranges.. but attempting to show the beacons are just as effective for warning power. Granted you dont have take downs or alleys, but the punch effect is still there... (Imagin if a dept went back and replaced ther aging light bars with the single bubble or visabar styled set ups, while utilizing the rear deck or grill lights and a unity spot lite... Would save some money too Im sure.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I still think you just cant beat this, except a LED retro fit to lower amps.....

Model 184

I love that 184, and I still see some in service here and there. I've seen some with clear domes and the higher-output red and clear bulbs that could be seen a long way. I've mentioned it on other threads, but it bears mentioning here. In 1981 we bought one of Trippe's wide bars, and part of the package included a pair of their S200 beacons. The S200s were over-sized lights with large PAR46 aircraft sealed-beams. Both of our beacons were red, with those high powered bulbs underneath. One night we made an emergency transfer from Lubbock to the hospital in Hobbs, NM. While I'd been to Hobbs many times, I hadn't been to their new hospital, so before we left Lubbock I had our sheriff's office call Hobbs to arrange an escort for us. At Seminole a turn is made to the west, and the trip from there to Hobbs is 30 miles. When we got just outside of Hobbs we could see the escort car waiting for us. Once we had completed the trip to the hospital and had come back outside, both of the Hobbs cops were walking around the ambulance: a red 1970 Suburban. Besides the twin S200 beacons, the bar also had a pair of CP100 speakers and a pair of blue DoRay lollipop lights, plus there was a Q mounted just behind the light bar. The two cops just couldn't get enough of looking at that nice big bar, especially since it was mounted on an older truck. One of the cops mentioned to us that they could see us when we left Seminole (30 mi. away) and thought we were much closer and wondered why it was taking us a bit longer than they thought it should have for us to get there. Everyone who saw that Trippe bar in action always had similar comments. I'm just surprised that I've never seen anyone else with those big, bright lights!

 

[Sirennet]

You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of old guys sitting in front of a general store, complaining about how good the old days were.


:beat_deadhorse:

 

[jvanorder]

I sure hope halogens are not obsolete! I got a new to me MX7000 that i have yet to use and got a few months yet before I can. I for one love the look of the halogen bars. And I dont have a minimum of 300 bones to throw down on even a mini LED bar

 

[wrecker44]

Naw.....not obsolete. Just fell victim to marketing that's all. They're re-inventing the wheel again lol......and fixing things that are not broken. But that's business and marketing for ya.


From a Non-Government funded consumer stand-point, Its a over-engineered, over-priced, and over-hyped technology loaded with false catch-phrases and exaggerated safety improvements with no factual support to back-up such claims.


Lets review the selling points shall we? These are the two big ones right below.....


LED's are brighter> Yes in a lot of cases they are brighter. But brighter doesn't mean safer now does it? In fact, there are studies and statistics that suggest otherwise. So how is brighter better?


LED's Draw less power> Yes they draw less power. My alternator works just fine, and if your vehicle is spec'd appropriately, so should yours. It should never be an issue unless your outfitting a fire truck or


meat wagon. But even then, how did we get through the last 40 years without LED's? They spec'd the equipment properly to handle the loads. Does this justify the cost?


LED's last longer> Yes they do, but at a ridiculous cost. One can buy any similer spec'd halogen bar, at half the cost, and replace 15 rotators and 60 bulbs for the price of the LED version. Every autoparts store carries the bulbs too. So no waiting for the mfg to send out replacement modules. Same can be said with strobe tech as well (exept you can't get tubes at any autoparts stores). Most of us can fix/repair/diagnose problems with halogen/strobe lighting right on the side of the road with very simple tools in most cases. The same cannot be said about Programmable LED bars. Why would I want to buy that?


The manufacturers have convinced the civil services that they needed all this technology because its better some how....and they bought it for whatever reason. So now we're all gonna have to buy it, because they are doing away with the simple stuff. From a business stand-point, its great. They can sell $7k lighbars instead of $2k lightbars. They control the market by being the manufacturer, so they can stop making the halo/strobe products, and force the LED products onto everyone.


There was nothing wrong with what we already had.....and I don't see how LED's are better than strobe or halogen, so that tells me the technology isn't obsolete. The MFG's just want to sell us all something else. They have to make a BETTER product, before the previous product becomes obsolete!

 

[Station 3]

Naw.....not obsolete. Just fell victim to marketing that's all. They're re-inventing the wheel again lol......and fixing things that are not broken. But that's business and marketing for ya.

From a Non-Government funded consumer stand-point, Its a over-engineered, over-priced, and over-hyped technology loaded with false catch-phrases and exaggerated safety improvements with no factual support to back-up such claims.


Lets review the selling points shall we? These are the two big ones right below.....


LED's are brighter> Yes in a lot of cases they are brighter. But brighter doesn't mean safer now does it? In fact, there are studies and statistics that suggest otherwise. So how is brighter better?


LED's Draw less power> Yes they draw less power. My alternator works just fine, and if your vehicle is spec'd appropriately, so should yours. It should never be an issue unless your outfitting a fire truck or


meat wagon. But even then, how did we get through the last 40 years without LED's? They spec'd the equipment properly to handle the loads. Does this justify the cost?


LED's last longer> Yes they do, but at a ridiculous cost. One can buy any similer spec'd halogen bar, at half the cost, and replace 15 rotators and 60 bulbs for the price of the LED version. Every autoparts store carries the bulbs too. So no waiting for the mfg to send out replacement modules. Same can be said with strobe tech as well (exept you can't get tubes at any autoparts stores). Most of us can fix/repair/diagnose problems with halogen/strobe lighting right on the side of the road with very simple tools in most cases. The same cannot be said about Programmable LED bars. Why would I want to buy that?


The manufacturers have convinced the civil services that they needed all this technology because its better some how....and they bought it for whatever reason. So now we're all gonna have to buy it, because they are doing away with the simple stuff. From a business stand-point, its great. They can sell $7k lighbars instead of $2k lightbars. They control the market by being the manufacturer, so they can stop making the halo/strobe products, and force the LED products onto everyone.


There was nothing wrong with what we already had.....and I don't see how LED's are better than strobe or halogen, so that tells me the technology isn't obsolete. The MFG's just want to sell us all something else. They have to make a BETTER product, before the previous product becomes obsolete!

Bravo sir! wrecker44 has just made my case! I agree with everything.

 

[Sirennet]

You are forgetting the point about LEDs being visible at a much greater distance than it's Halogen equivalent. Also, if you look through those studies about bright lights you talk about, most talk about how the faster on/off of the LEDs creates a higher visual stress, causing greater caution and attention to detail from observers.

 

[Skip Goulet]

You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of old guys sitting in front of a general store, complaining about how good the old days were.


:beat_deadhorse:

Well, that's what they were.......good old days. One of these days, hopefully, some of us will be able to look back and see the LEDs and electronic sirens as good old days, too.


To me, what was absolutely awesome in my generation was to see an ambulance with more than one beacon or multiple lights and a big Q or Siro-Drift siren on top. Initially growing up around the funeral home-based ambulances, you mostly saw a single beacon light on top and a siren on the fender or under-the-hood. When the funeral homes ran the only ambulances, they were never considered money-makers for the funeral homes, so it was nothing unusual to see the "barest bones" setups on some of them.


But some of them considered the service as an excellent PR tool, so they'd go all out. When Thomas Funeral Home here in Midland opened in 1955, their first ambulance was a 1956 Ford sedan-delivery that sported a roof-mounted Q, four red Unity lights and a red 17 beacon behind the Q. That was considered to have been "all out" on the ambulance considering that Ellis Funeral Home's '54 Ford station wagon ambulance had a single beacon and a fender mounted B&M. In the spring of 1959 Thomas bought a new 1960 Ford sedan-delivery. We were out of school for Easter vacation and I happened to drive up behind the funeral home on my motor scooter. The eldest son, Billy (who has had the place for several years now), was outside by the new ambulance. He chuckled at my amazement in seeing the new vehicle, which for the moment only sported the Q on top. So my first question to Billy was to ask if they were going back with the same setup as on the older Ford. Their '57 Plymouth wagon had used the same setup except with the addition of a Mars FL8 light on the rt. fender. He commented that that was their plan but someone had stolen two of the Unity lights. So I said to him that it would be neat if they had a second beacon available, and suggested that it would look neat with twin beacons on the front corners with the two remaining Unity lights cowl-mounted. He had a wide grin on his face and ran back inside for a minute, and then came out sporting a red 17D beacon that had come off a Cadillac combination that they had sold. So he followed my suggestion, utilizing twin beacons and cowl-mounted Unities. It was by far one of the most spectacular ambulance setups that West Texas had ever seen. And until 1967 when they put their first Pontiac Consort ambulance into service, they stayed with the twin-beacon setup. For Thomas, the ambulance service is what made their business, so you can imagine what they went through in 1974 when the fire dept decided to institute an EMS system, which pretty well forced Thomas out of the emergency ambulance business. Another spectacular setup I mentioned recently was a '67 long-wheel-based Pontiac ambulance that originally belonged to Franklin-Bartley Funeral Home in Lubbock: one of the parent companies of AID Ambulance which opened in August of 1968, but has been independently owned since 1972. The big Pontiac sported twin red 174s on the front corners with four red DoRay lollipops between the beacons and a Q on the rt. fender. I thought I'd never see anyone beat that setup until I made a trip to Clovis, NM in April of 1973 to visit my friend Phil Bickerstaff who owned Gold Star Ambulance. He had just put a nice red and white '66 Pontiac wagon in service that had come from the Longview, TX Fire Dept. When I saw the wagon it had five Dietz 211 beacons on top with a center-mounted Q in front. But the original form when Longview had it in service was with triple Qs on top.


So there were some neat and spectacular setups: not only on ambulances but on a lot of fire trucks as well, "back in the day". The only downside of some of them...especially when you compare them to the low current draw of today's LEDS...is that with some of them you almost had to have a trailer-mounted generator towed behind the ambulance just to power all of the goodies! :yes:

 

[wrecker44]

You are forgetting the point about LEDs being visible at a much greater distance than it's Halogen equivalent. Also, if you look through those studies about bright lights you talk about, most talk about how the faster on/off of the LEDs creates a higher visual stress, causing greater caution and attention to detail from observers.

LOL. Did you read that right off the Whelen site or what lol? Don't take this personally, but anyone who's EVER worked on the highway.....with any lighting ever made.....knows that's just not the case. On paper or in a perfect world...sure, but not in reality. Its the people.....not the lights.


No I didn't forget about the distance part. That's implied in the whole "Brighter" category (kind goes without saying...). The last part of your sentence is exactly what kills people. Higher visual stress. For the 10% of motorists who are actually paying attention to their driving, they can get easily confused or disorientated by the cruiser with all its rear lighting going as fast and as bright as they can get it, especially at night. Yes.....there are low-power settings, but they don't get used in my area.


The whole point of emergency lighting is to communicate with other motorists. If they're driving distracted (not looking out the windshield), inconsiderate, or just don't care....no amount of lighting tech can fix that. Most people only think one thing when they see blinky lights (if they think anything)..."is that a cop?". That because they know a cop can take their money for not slowing down or moving over. Otherwise most people could care less.


Its a problem with the people, not the lights.


More lights, different patterns, or brighter lights are not the solution to this problem. Driver education, enforcement of our current laws, and consequences for violators are the solution to these problems.


Unfortunatly, in this "me first" kinda world we live in now, most people need to learn the hard way by getting citations and paying fines and higher insurance premiums. Otherwise they just won't get the message.

 

[Sutphen 606]

All warning equipment halogen,strobe, and LED are effective lighting IF USED PROPERLY. LED's work properly at night and do not blind other drivers IF you use the low power setting as they were intended. Strobe and halogen are effective if used properly. This is an argument that can not and will never die. Outfitters are going to push the newest technology on the market no matter what it is and rightfully so. They are a buisness and buisness's need to make money in order to survive. It is up to the end user to determine the needs of their own situation and purchase/use the equipment accordingly. If you have a vehicle and you wire it entirely up with LED on high power constantly and it looks like a UFO coming down the road dont be suprised if it blinds someone and they hit your vehicle (BTW in my state that is YOUR fault not the other drivers. "Due Reguard"). If you wire a vehicle entirely in strobes and it cant be seen during the day due to the sun don't be suprized if other drivers dont yield way. If you go all halogen with a not on par charging system and it kils your car dont be suprised. A responsible person will install a cobination of equipment halogen, strobe, or LED to provide effective warning day or night while keeping the safety of other dirvers and themselves in mind. As i said before all three have their advantages and disadvantages and you as the owner have to weigh what works best for YOU.

 

[Station 3]

If you gave me a blank patrol car right now and placed a Whelen Liberty in front of me or a Code 3 exalibur in front of me and told me to chose one I would choose a decked out exalibur anyday over a generic clone led bar that everyone has for what ever reason.


And I have done that already with the liberty bar. I choose an older Federal Signal Raydian LED bar instead because it was unique down here and the whelen bar is still in a cardboard box next to our toilet at our office collecting dust.