Light bar on LEO POV?

Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
I am looking into getting into an academy, hopefully with in the next year or so.

I know it will be a while before I would need this, but I was curious about the general consensus about a full size light bar on an LEO POV?
 

tsquale

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 12, 2010
10,541
Minnesota, USA
Don't do it. Several reasons:

-You're not an LEO yet and may never be hired as one.

-If hired, your department may not allow it

-You may be issued a take home squad

-Laws in your area may prohibit it

-What would the point be? Because you "can" or may stop and do a motorist assist off duty? Leave work at work and don't make yourself more of a target.
 

Newberry13

Member
May 21, 2010
613
SC, USA
I agree with Tony. Most states don't let LEOs put lights on their POVs. SC for example only allows it if authorized by the chief off your department and you sub-lease your vehicle to your PD. That is extremely rare though. The captain on my department did this only because he lives out side of the county meaning he can't take a department car home, his issued car is usually used by our reserves, and he's our PIO and reserve program director.

That said, if your authorized; after the academy, field training, and your off probation: go undercover. You don't want to be identified while off-duty, your enough of a target every time your on duty Orr in uniform.
 
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Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
Don't do it. Several reasons:-You're not an LEO yet and may never be hired as one.

-If hired, your department may not allow it

-You may be issued a take home squad

-Laws in your area may prohibit it

-What would the point be? Because you "can" or may stop and do a motorist assist off duty? Leave work at work and don't make yourself more of a target.
Yes, I understand I am not an LEO yet, I was just curious about the general consensus on it.

The idea about having lights on my pov, is for off duty emergency response, as I do plan to apply for a department outside of my county.

Good point on the laws, and authorization from the department though, I will have to look into that.

I agree with Tony. Most states don't let LEOs put lights on their POVs. SC for example only allows it if authorized by the chief off your department and you sub-lease your vehicle to your PD. That is extremely rare though. The captain on my department did this only because he lives out side of the county meaning he can't take a department car home, his issued car is usually used by our reserves, and he's our PIO and reserve program director. That said, if your authorized; after the academy, field training, and your off probation: go undercover. You don't want to be identified while off-duty, your enough of a target every time your on duty Orr in uniform.
Undercover is what I am thinking too, especially with all of the BS that people are pulling on police these days.
 

Newberry13

Member
May 21, 2010
613
SC, USA
If you plan on joining a second department, you need to check your states law. I know in SC, I can't be commissioned by mir then one agency.
 

PJD642

New Member
May 20, 2010
1,543
east of Cleveland
"Off duty emergency response" because you will live in another county?  Does that actually happen on a regular basis for people?

Seriously, just wait.  You'll be making yourself a target, spending money you most likely won't need to spend, and in 24 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've wanted lights on my POV.

And honestly, if I had a civilian POV with a bar try to stop me or cause me to do anything but continue along my way, I'd 1) refuse to stop, and 2) be on the phone to dispatch to report an impersonator.
 

Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
By emergency response I am referring to signal 99 calls, that might come in the town that I live in.

By no means would I ever try to stop anyone in my pov.

I would like to get on with the Sheriff Department in my county, however, I would have to pay my own way through the Academy for that.

I am looking at a city department in the next county south, who run their own Academy, so I can get paid while in the Academy.
 

Retired1

Member
Jun 1, 2010
1,912
Woodward County, OK
For an alternative opinion, in Texas, there are many agencies that use POVs for on duty patrol work. They have the same status as an agency owned vehicle. Pick up trucks and well used older patrol cars bought from large agencies are very common in rural areas. I would suggest being  familiar with the area in which you will be driving before I would recommend ignoring a legit LEO POV. As (almost) stated earlier, if unsure call 911 and ask.  

There are hundreds of LEO POVs that LEOs use to legally escort convoys/processions and provide road construction/repair traffic control while off-duty. They have the same authority as an agency owned vehicle. There are a number of TX LEOs with authorized POVs on ELB.

Also., in Texas, dual commissioning is allowed.  Several nearby states also allow dual commissioning. That allows lightly staffed counties to contract with better staffed cities to have city police officers respond to county calls when no county deputy is available (or be able to work two jobs).

Another 'also', in TX, VFD personnel can run emergency lights and sirens on their POVs with dept. approval - and there are LOTs of them that do. Many are very impressive upfits as their owners take great pride in their installs (and rightfully so).

I shall leave out tow trucks and service veicles (such as ODOT, where I live now, using blue and red/white/ blue on grass cutting equipment). I found it is easier for me to regard each lighting array as important and I  drive accordingly and make adjustments as needed. 

In one nearby state, an additional issue takes place when a LEO POV is used as a LEO vehicle, it uses blue lights. When the same vehicle is used as for VFD purposes, a red light has to be added (credit:  AJ).  

That all said, I would absolutely recommend to the OP to do NOTHING to his POV until he is commissioned, employed, and understands (and complies with) his agency's position on the matter. 
 
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cbpdogboy

Member
May 23, 2010
1,285
Detroit, MI
 As (almost) stated earlier, if unsure call 911 and ask.  

CBPDOGBOY response:

I would strongly disagree with your statement above. 911 is not an informational line...for emergency use only. Find out your area police department/ sheriff's office non emergency number to ask your questions.

As an LEO for over 18 1/2 years, having a lightbar or interior lights for that matter, on your pov is aking for trouble. You will be liable for civil lawsuits and possible criminal charges, if you are involved in an accident, while your light are activated. If you are hired, this is the last thing you want to draw attention to you in the probationary phase when you don't even know your job yet.
 
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Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
For an alternative opinion, in Texas, there are many agencies that use POVs for on duty patrol work. They have the same status as an agency owned vehicle. Pick up trucks and well used older patrol cars bought from large agencies are very common in rural areas. I would suggest being  familiar with the area in which you will be driving before I would recommend ignoring a legit LEO POV. As (almost) stated earlier, if unsure call 911 and ask.  There are hundreds of LEO POVs that LEOs use to legally escort convoys/processions and provide road construction/repair traffic control while off-duty. They have the same authority as an agency owned vehicle. There are a number of TX LEOs with authorized POVs on ELB.

Also., in Texas, dual commissioning is allowed.  Several nearby states also allow dual commissioning. That allows lightly staffed counties to contract with better staffed cities to have city police officers respond to county calls when no county deputy is available (or be able to work two jobs).

Another 'also', in TX, VFD personnel can run emergency lights and sirens on their POVs with dept. approval - and there are LOTs of them that do. Many are very impressive upfits as their owners take great pride in their installs (and rightfully so).

I shall leave out tow trucks and service veicles (such as ODOT, where I live now, using blue and red/white/ blue on grass cutting equipment). I found it is easier for me to regard each lighting array as important and I  drive accordingly and make adjustments as needed. 

In one nearby state, an additional issue takes place when a LEO POV is used as a LEO vehicle, it uses blue lights. When the same vehicle is used as for VFD purposes, a red light has to be added (credit:  AJ).  

That all said, I would absolutely recommend to the OP to do NOTHING to his POV until he is commissioned, employed, and understands (and complies with) his agency's position on the matter. 
Exactly, nothing is going to be done to any of my vehicles, until I am hired, and pass my probation period.

Not much different from when I joined the FD, no lights or siren until after probation period is over.

As someone who already runs lights and siren for Volunteer Fire, I am well aware of the ramifications, and liability factors of responding code 3 in a pov.
 

Retired1

Member
Jun 1, 2010
1,912
Woodward County, OK
 

I would strongly disagree with your statement above. 911 is not an informational line...for emergency use only. Find out your area police department/ sheriff's office non emergency number to ask your questions.

As an LEO for over 18 1/2 years, having a lightbar or interior lights for that matter, on your pov is aking for trouble. You will be liable for civil lawsuits and possible criminal charges, if you are involved in an accident, while your light are activated.
Disagree if you will, but I stand by my comment that if you are signaled to pull over by a vehicle that you suspect is not a legitimate LEO, then call 911.

My dispatchers fielded those calls without a second thought. I used CRASH units against street crimes and they drove borrowed normal civilian cars outfitted with minimum warning and radios. Local thugs could not distinguish these cars from normal traffic until the officers interacted with them. It was seldom an issue as a marked unit would regularly back up a CRASH unit on a traffic stop. If a traveler, tourist, or even a local citizen had a concern - during an active attempted traffic stop (by marked or unmarked units)- we accepted 911 calls as most would not know or remember our PD number to contact.

Many rural Texas Sheriff's deputies and deputy constables use their POVs for normal on-duty work as no agency owned vehicles are provided. 

It has been a long standing tradition for many TX motor officers to use their own POV motorcycles on-duty, although that  seems to be gradually changing.

I dare say that there are thousands  (NOT exaggerated) of VFD members and LEOs in TX that have full emergency equipment installed in their POVs and I never seen it to be a problem or issue with the public* (well maybe it might have been with an occasional and unsuspecting Yankee tourists, but it was never reported to me - I guess they just  went back north)     

Your 18+ years as a LEO are commendable (especially if done in Detroit). However, my 39+ years as a LEO (20 as a police chief in highly populated North Central Texas) provides me the knowledge and experience that LEO POVs with full emergency equipment, driven on and off-duty by LEOs and volunteer firefighters and medical responders, are, and remain, a vital resource in our part of the world. 

* - It does seem to irk some LEOs that work in wealthy cities, that drive furnished vehicles (on and off-duty) and receive big paychecks, that LEOs in other agencies get to drive POVs with emergency equipment, but confronted they have to accept State law)  
 
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cbpdogboy

Member
May 23, 2010
1,285
Detroit, MI
Ok...Retired1...I misread that! lol!  I apologize. Yes, call 911 if suspect a police impersonator. I thought you wanted a person to call 911 to ask a question about the pov with lighting law.

This is what happens when I work 16 hours with less than 5 hours sleep! lol! Off to bed now...
 
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Retired1

Member
Jun 1, 2010
1,912
Woodward County, OK
Apology accepted, but not needed. We are still friends! That said, we got off the topic of the original post and reading the OP's posts, he/she understands what is needed and I  am sure will follow through and do things correctly and in proper order.

Storm82 - best wishes for you in your law enforcement career endeavor and thank you for your fire service.  
 

Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
Ok...Retired1...I misread that! lol!  I apologize. Yes, call 911 if suspect a police impersonator. I thought you wanted a person to call 911 to ask a question about the pov with lighting law.This is what happens when I work 16 hours with less than 5 hours sleep! lol! Off to bed now...
I hear ya on that, I have to do 13 hour shifts, sometimes I am lucky if I get more than 4 or 5 hours of sleep myself.

Thanks Retired1, I am still looking, I have my name in for a couple of Academies, also looking into Forensics, on a suggestion from my neighbor who is a local retired Deputy.

I will check with a few friends, who are local LEO's, they will have more of an idea what the local opinion is.

Either way, I think I will pass on the full size light bar, to reduce how much of a target I make myself.
 

robert911

Member
Jul 16, 2010
63
Sevierville, TN
At my dept., We have a few words for people that want blue lights on their POV's around here but being a family forum I won"t say.  

Personally I've Towed cars for years as a sideline for 25+ years and always had some kind of warning lights on my trucks and including some of my busiest times I can count on my one hand that has 8 fingers the times I really needed them.  

Even the Fire volunteers around here that light up there worn out 84 F-150's drive like jerks so they get tickets just like civilians that run stop signs.
 

Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
You must not do much roadside towing then, because if you did, then you shouldn't have enough fingers, or even toes to count the number of times you have needed your lights.
 

Tony P

Moderator
Sep 13, 2015
1,946
Midwest, USA
Let's stay on topic folks. This thread is about lights on LEO POV's. No more bickering about tow trucks or FF/EMS.
 

PTRJason

Member
Jul 25, 2010
395
Silverpeak, NV
Just to add....

As far as responding to like an Officer Needs Help call or something in the town you live in, if you get hired by another department, may not always be a good thing.

Unless you deal with that department every day, and know everyone on it, just listening to a scanner and jumping in your car and going to help because you are a cop somewhere else, can turn bad.

You come flying up to a scene where one, they were not expecting you, two, you will probably be out of uniform, and a badge on your belt, or neck, three, may not have any radio contact with them to know any details while enroute, or on scene.  Maybe they relayed important info you misses because the agency you work for does not have the same radio system, and they only way you hear them is a scanner at your home.  You maybe flying into an ambush, or some running up with your gun out, and get shot by a cop because they don't know you, because they don't work with you, and think you are trying to harm them.

Turn me, if someone, I never met before, showed up with a shirt that just said POLICE on it, in a POV, I would tell them to stand back and wait in there car or whatever, until I had the time to find out who they were, and what they said they were.  Granted if I was shot and bleeding, maybe not, but I was trying to not get shot, or it was a stand off or something, last thing I need is someone else there, who I don't even know if they are a real cop, and worry about protecting them. 

I have been in LE for about 15 years now, both sworn and non, and I am a deputy in a very rural area (3,500 miles, with 4 street deputies TOTAL)  I am the deputy for my area, so off duty or not, I get called out to things.  I am given a take home unit for this reason. 

I know there are the what if's, but if you live in a city with a dedicated PD or something, let them handle it.  You can probably get to a scene a lot fast driving normally, or with your hazards on, then anything else.  Or risk getting sued because you were off duty using your vehicle code-3, to another agencies call, and someone crashed because of it.  Or worse hit a marked unit, who didn't know to look out for someone responding code as well from a certain area because they knew they were the only unit for 30 miles, and had the green light and you were rolling code and rolled the red.

Like I said tons and tons of what ifs, but leave it to the guys who are on duty, if it is marjor enough they will call you at home to respond.  And trust me, there have probably been many and many help calls before, and if it was that major of a concern they will issue a take home.

Don't take anything in a bad way, just don't be too eager to want to go balls out with everything you can.  After you do all the stuff you need to, and on the street by yourself you will see that once your home, you want to stay home.  If they allow it, just get a SINGLE LED dash light to throw up on your dash, but I am almost willing to bet you will NEVER need it.  Remember you wont be on duty, and you probably wont respond more then a few miles, treat it like a VFD courtesy light state (I know OH is not and you can run red and sirens) but use a single LED and drive with care, don't fly to get there, or you wont make it, and you wont do anyone good.  Unless you are in a marked unit, or a properly outfitted vehicle, don't drive like it.  And I say that as in, you don't need a properly outfitted vehicle, because chances are you may use it in an actual response maybe twice in a career while off duty. 

Just some thinking outside of the box.  All I am saying is put yourself in an officers shoes.  You call Signal-99  Maybe 3 other units already showed up and now this POV comes up decked out, and a guy gets out with a badge you cant really see and a gun or something.  You know he is not on your department, you have maybe seen him before, but can't place it.  What are you going to do?  Stop what your doing, and focus your attention on him thinking maybe he is ambushing you or playing pretend to get close to you to harm you.  Or believe what he says, and then trust he has enough skills to not get himself or you killed.

I have helped in situations off duty with officers fighting, but if possible, I always try to make eye contact with the office, and try to wait for him to acknowledge me before I jump in just for the simple fact that I don't want them thinking I am trying to rescue who ever they are fighting with.

Sorry for making that so long.  When and IF the time comes, I would sit down with whoever your chief or sheriff or commander is, speak to them about it.  THEN if you get the ok, go to whoever is the chief of the town you live in and sit down with them, and talk about it.  If they say its okay, then at least you have the backing, and from there you can get to know the local cops. 

And I know your probably a firefighter for the town you live in, but if you get hired as a cop, make sure they know it.  Because there have been cases, about volley FF getting arrested for impersonating cops on scenes. 
 
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Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
PTRJason, very true, and thanks for sharing constructive advice, instead of just criticism.

I am actually leaning away from patrol as it is anyway, I have decided to focus on Forensics instead. I like the technical aspect of Forensics more than driving in circles all day, I already do that with my current job.

When I first became interested in Law Enforcement, which was back in High School, the class I took was geared more towards Forensics.
 
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Krsdog25

Member
Apr 30, 2012
187
NJ
I figure I should add that if you do want to get hired on I would wait to ask this question and any others like it until after your probation period.  It can give the wrong impression to the dept you're applying to.  Your application would likely wind up right next to the guy who asked "So when do we get our guns?"  Good luck.
 

Station 3

Member
May 21, 2010
3,395
Edinburg Texas
My pov has lights sirens and is used to do traffic stops as well as responding to calls in my county where I work as a deputy constable. I do ignore ALOT of crime "traffic wise" once im going home at the end of the day because if not the day would never end..... People are idiots and most don't notice a pretty obvious unmarked POV. I have responded code before to my job site a few times for emergency's but when I do I contact the county in which I live and inform them what im driving and where and what my intentions are.

I would try to keep it low key and not install a full blown lightbar that has colored lenses you will get a lot of unwanted attention.

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Storm82

Member
Dec 16, 2014
231
Ludlow Falls, Ohio
My pov has lights sirens and is used to do traffic stops as well as responding to calls in my county where I work as a deputy constable. I do ignore ALOT of crime "traffic wise" once im going home at the end of the day because if not the day would never end..... People are idiots and most don't notice a pretty obvious unmarked POV. I have responded code before to my job site a few times for emergency's but when I do I contact the county in which I live and inform them what im driving and where and what my intentions are.
I would try to keep it low key and not install a full blown lightbar that has colored lenses you will get a lot of unwanted attention.

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Yes, low key is definitely the way I would go, probably cannons at the corners, and blue or blue/red dash light, since more than likely my vehicle would already have a red light bar installed anyway.

Set it up so I can turn blue on only when needed.

I just got a notification in my email that a department near me is going to be recruiting, starting this month, so I am going to put in an application.
 

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