Marine lighting?

[wkr518]

I am throwing together a proposal for an FD RescueOne boat.


I really only have experience with Whelen products in the past.


So far I have:


Century LED 16" Blue minibar-to be mounted to back rack at rear of boat


WPA112 siren with WPA3BM controller- to be mounted to operators side of driver seat


2 Micro Pioneer pedestal swivel spots/flood/work lights with indiv on/off switches- to be mounted on top of back rack


SVP D-60RBB compact 100W speaker-mounted to back rack


XTL1500 mobile in a NEMA box with antenna mounted on backrack


it's a 2 battery boat system so not really interested in battery charger connection (kussmaul)


Anyone have experience working on these brand of boats for installs?


Would like a few ( 2 per side ) interior work lights for the Divers and Rescuer but nothing so bright to attract every mayfly from here to tuscaloosa along the rivers


Maybe lightheads that can be dimmed? striplites?


Also looking for a good online resource for sample installs on this model or similar boat.


Thanks


Wayne

 

[kitn1mcc]

are you using a regular back rack on a boat. i thaught FD had to use red amber now

 

[foxtrot5]

are you using a regular back rack on a boat. i thaught FD had to use red amber now

For some reason I feel like flashing red displayed on a vessel underway technically represents a Submarine traveling on the surface but I can't find documentation to back it up right now.

 

[Kd8bao]

These are what I found for a quick search


Feniex makes some really nice product also that would work nice for scene lights. very bright and small. The one picture has a Go-Light, if your interested we have a NIB HID version. Also look at our store for the Wired HDH switch panels. they are waterproof and they offer an all weather relay pack also. Just some ideas.

 

[PTRJason]

Blue is for any emergency vessel.


Red is supposed to be for a vessel that has another vessel under tow.


I do not really believe amber has a place.


However if the water is just a small lake in just your area then you can probably get away running what you want. But if it is a river or larger lake, that may border more then one jurisdiction, or an ocean, then only blue should be used. Blue is the maritime color, used worldwide for emergency vessels. So if your waterways will be used by foreign vessels, it will advise them of urgency and caution.


Edited to add:


I was wrong, it seems that red or red amber is now used for firefighting, and blue is for LE only. However, neither blue or red or red/amber gives right away.

 

[Abacus]

For the interior work light I love the 1400 lumen 5 inch sound off work light. Floods the back of our fire ute truck. You only need one.

 

[foxtrot5]

There's two things that determine right of way on the water... one of them is what the USCG says about right of way.


Personally I go by "the law of gross tonnage." Which is very similar to "the lugnut rule."

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

go light also makes something for the front end for ya if you'd like specifically for marine usage. Golight® :: Legendary Searchlights & Spotlights

 

[PJD642]

Golights, Feniex Titan 100s, Mini pioneers, Rigid D2s (which come in a marine version) or even a whelen 700 series LED scene light would work well for lighting up stuff on the water


Side note - I just got one of those whelen scene lights the other day. I was amazed at how bright it is, and what a nice focused beam it has..put my two Rigid Dually's to shame, AND it fits in the Edge bar I'm building. My one TD will soon beat your multiple TDs....

 

[toon80]

As far as law enforcement international laws goes: special blue flashing light, to be exhibited by a government vessel when enforcing the law only. One all-round blue flashing light, 50 to 70 flashes per minute.


In Canadian and American waters, blue is the only official color I've seen for law enforcement, although local regulations can permit the use of other colors.


Military can use their own colors and specs, as long as they don't impede with collision regulation mandatory lights.


Steady red lights, sometimes combined with white lights are Internationaly known in regulations for fishing, pilot boats, deep draft vessels, manoeuver-restricted vessels and grounded vessels.


Flashing amber are used in the great lakes basin for pushed barges.

 

[acala91]

I say go with a FedSig Model 14 beacon over the Whelen mini bar.

 

[wkr518]

thanks for the replies ,ideas and legal considerations on colors.


the back rack actually is a part of the boat over the motor which we plan to mount items onto.


I am waiting on a NYSP friend to confirm color of the lightbar.


this will operate on the Hudson River and Mohawk River in upstate NY and may be called to assist other Dive teams in the region on lakes and streams.

 

[theroofable]

If this is going to be on a fire boat, there is no point in having the siren.

 

[foxtrot5]

If this is going to be on a fire boat, there is no point in having the siren.

I disagree... kind of. For non-LEO on water use I think the two most valuable features would be the electric air-horn (to get attention when necessary) and the PA for general purpose use.


As far as the actual siren functions, I can tell you for a fact that they're pretty useless on the water. My father has a little 16' bass fisher with an outboard 30 horse power engine and when we're cruising at full throttle (a whopping 15 MPH with a tail-wind) I can't hear a damn thing, including a siren operating at 200w. I've tested this and the boat with the siren had to be within like 20 feet before I noticed it. A moderately competent mariner knows to be aware of his/her surroundings at all times, including what's behind them so your flashing lights should be enough to get you noticed.


One big thing to consider with the lighting is what happens when the vessel comes up on plane, is your front lighting warning aircraft and your rear lighting warning fish? I forget where I saw it but one LEO vessel I saw one day had vertically mounted linear lights on the bow (very front for those of you without sea-legs) that were still effective on plane.

 

[theroofable]

I disagree... kind of. For non-LEO on water use I think the two most valuable features would be the electric air-horn (to get attention when necessary) and the PA for general purpose use.

I can't hear a damn thing, including a siren operating at 200w. I've tested this and the boat with the siren had to be within like 20 feet before I noticed it. A moderately competent mariner knows to be aware of his/her surroundings at all times, including what's behind them so your flashing lights should be enough to get you noticed.

So if you cant hear it whats the point? And you also said flashing lights should be enough. I agree with this, anyway if a boat is coming, the pa/ airhorn will not help.

 

[unlisted]

Watercraft - get a mechanical siren. Trust me, they DO travel over water compared to any electronic siren.


Also if you really want to be heard, get a stuttertone.. opo:

 

[foxtrot5]

So if you cant hear it whats the point? And you also said flashing lights should be enough. I agree with this, anyway if a boat is coming, the pa/ airhorn will not help.

In crowded areas, a quick horn blast could get you the attention you need. Not while running on the water but say a holiday weekend on the lake where you have a large number of small craft in an area just hanging out or whatever.

 

[Sigma Safety]

Personally I go by "the law of gross tonnage." Which is very similar to "the lugnut rule."

In motorcycle riding we call this "right of weight"

 

[Sigma Safety]

You may want to have a look at Tecniq lights. They make a lot of smaller lights for vehicle and boat use. Many of their lights are submersible (like, live their entire life under water).


They're all made in the US. 10 year warranty on pretty much everything they make. We use them regularly and have had very good success with their lights. I've never actually had one fail, and we have hundreds in service.


TecNiq Area and Accent Lighting . Most of their stuff is there but you can also look at their catalogue; http://www.tecniqinc.com/documents/tecniq_catalog.pdf .


You need to go through a distributor to get them, but there are tons of distributors in the US. Don't go to the factory for pricing. Dealers get VERY good discounts off list so if you buy at list you're paying way too much.


I have a set of their Eon lights (white) in my GMC Sierra as daytime running lights (replaced the crappy factory halogen ones). We have a ton of their 4" Silho-X "dome" lights in police vehicles, and have used a number of their Ground lights on fire vehicles, etc. The Ground lights are completely potted so are submersible.

 

[Hoser]

I live on a good sized lake and you don't have any problems hearing siren's on the patrol or fire boats. The newer patrol boats also have round LED Blue lights in the front and rear of the haul to complement the Bar on the rack or cabin. Photo's from Watercraft facebook page.

 

[wkr518]

If this is going to be on a fire boat, there is no point in having the siren.

more the PA aspect of it,to alert boaters that there are Divers in the water.

 

[kitn1mcc]

what is the rack made out of.

 

[chief1562]

You want to get somebody attention foreget the siren get a forward mounted morter luancher and fire a couple across their bow. You'll get their attention real fast.


Or you could use one of these.

 

[Cam]

Only blue has any meaning as far as the rules of navigation go. The red and amber alternating light is only an identification signal and conveys no special privilege. Vessels using the identification light signal during public safety activities must abide by the Inland Navigation Rules, and must not presume that the light or the exigency gives them precedence or right of way.

 

[pdk9]

I'd personally like to see a whelen mini edge strobe lightbar with flashers in the middle modules. You won't be use marine warning lights nearly as much as any of your dept's vehicles (thus the 100,000 hr lifetime of LEDs isn't significant here IMO), and while products like the mini freedom would look great on a boat, a mini edge strobe bar would provide more of a punch (be it through fog, rain, etc), for a fraction of the price.


As for work scene lighting for the divers, SNM has very nice, affordable line of scene lights.

 

[acala91]

The problem with that is, unless they find a new one a mini Edge is like $550. I still think the FedSig Model 14 is the way to go. Cheap, reliable and super effective.

 

[Kd8bao]

Feniex Products


Roll cage:


- 1 Cobra Mini ( Blue )


- 2 Cobra 100 ( Takedown ) Rear Work


- 2 Cobra 200 ( Takedown ) Front Work


- 4 Rotating Brackets


Bow:


- 2 Cannon ( Blue ) One on each side of the Bow


900 Shipped if ordered before 3-1-13


Add 575 for a new in box Go Light HID Version

 

[wkr518]

You want to get somebody attention foreget the siren get a forward mounted morter luancher and fire a couple across their bow. You'll get their attention real fast.
Or you could use one of these.

no room for perm mount mortar,maybe the portable one

 

[chief1562]

no room for perm mount mortar,maybe the portable one

That would be the M-79 you could actually go all around the boat then.

 

[wkr518]

I'd personally like to see a whelen mini edge strobe lightbar with flashers in the middle modules. You won't be use marine warning lights nearly as much as any of your dept's vehicles (thus the 100,000 hr lifetime of LEDs isn't significant here IMO), and while products like the mini freedom would look great on a boat, a mini edge strobe bar would provide more of a punch (be it through fog, rain, etc), for a fraction of the price.
As for work scene lighting for the divers, SNM has very nice, affordable line of scene lights.

we sometimes Drill with divers in the boat 4 times a month or more in nice weather,not that we have the light flashing all the time.I understand the strobe vs fog,rain punch but they wanted LED for the nominal amperage draw savings.I havent installed a strobe bar since 2003 or so.


never heard of SNM,so many new brands to keep track of.

 

[wkr518]

The problem with that is, unless they find a new one a mini Edge is like $550. I still think the FedSig Model 14 is the way to go. Cheap, reliable and super effective.

they went with a 16inch perm mount whelen century for $210 and 2 of the micro pioneers with swivel pedestals and on/off switches for work/scene lighting.we wanted something that can be angled to cover inside or outside of the boat.the backrack is actually factory installed roll bar type thing,a custom made shelf for the top is being fabricated in a shop locally here.

 

[wkr518]

That would be the M-79 you could actually go all around the boat then.

I have fire the basic same system mounted under an M16 while in Army so know how the targeting/distance sights work in theory.


*LUMP*THUMP*BOOMPH!*


use the trainer orange paint rounds to mark boats who drove like turds or got too close to our training area of divers

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

please update with thorough pictures when its installed!

 

[Kd8bao]

please update with thorough pictures when its installed!

The paint cannons, or lights? haha

 

[Ren12]

I would definitely take a look at Rigid Industries LED lighting. I've heard nothing but good things about their products and they also have marine specific LED scene lights.


http://rigidonline.com/Rigid_Industries_Master_Catalog_2013.pdf


LED Lights | Off Road LED Light Bars | Military L E D Lighting | Defense L.E.D. Lights | Agriculture LED Lighting | Marine LED Lights | Mining LEDs | Landscape L.E.D Light | Police LED Lights | Fire Rescue LED | Rigid Industries

 

[pdk9]

we sometimes Drill with divers in the boat 4 times a month or more in nice weather,not that we have the light flashing all the time.I understand the strobe vs fog,rain punch but they wanted LED for the nominal amperage draw savings.I havent installed a strobe bar since 2003 or so.
never heard of SNM,so many new brands to keep track of.

I totally understand the reason for wanting to go with LED over strobe ;-). I guess I was kind of being nostalgic for the LE boats I used to see with mini edges and, of course, by thinking of the Baywatch Scarab boats with full size strobe bars (too bad Yasmine Bleeth wouldn't be driving your boats, though).


SNM (strobes n more) are good, private brand products, but SNM also sells all the major brands. What's your budget? Although I do respect products like SNM minibar, Sound Off Minibars, etc. I'd have to say that Mini Freedom (even if it is only the 4 corners) or a liberty is, IMHO, the way to go (I prefer the larger spread of the freedom/libby footprints over the smaller footprints of other minibars). However, the Libby and freedom are a bit pricey (since you're paying to have 12+ LEDs in a corner module), so the whelen LP responder is a more cost effective option for a solid linear lightbar (think of it as 6 liberty inboard 500 series modules mounted in a minibar); I would just recommend flashing the whole unit, rather than half at a time, to optimize its potential and leave a bigger footprint).

The problem with that is, unless they find a new one a mini Edge is like $550. I still think the FedSig Model 14 is the way to go. Cheap, reliable and super effective.

Mini edges and edges (and the lenses) aren't hard to find out there, so they wouldn't have to worry about paying $500-600. I also do not personally find halogens (especially slower rotating halogen lights) effective for this application

 

[Goodsam]

I am Boarding Officer with the USCG I not a 100% on this so I will look in to the correct answer for you ( this is not a normal violation LOL). But some food for though in the Mean time State law may govern the waters your operating in and thus would leave your light color configuration to state laws. However if not the Coast Guard may make you comply with 33 CFR. Here is a couple of brief excerpts from the CFR


TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS PART 88--ANNEX V: PILOT RULES Sec. 88.11 Law enforcement vessels. (a) Law enforcement vessels may display a flashing blue light when engaged in direct law enforcement or public safety activities. This light must be located so that it does not interfere with the visibility of the vessel's navigation lights. ( B) The blue light described in this section may be displayed by law enforcement vessels of the United States and the States and their political subdivisions.


and


Sec. 88.12 Public safety activities. (a) Vessels engaged in government sanctioned public safety activities, and commercial vessels performing similar functions, may display an alternately flashing red and yellow light signal. This identification light signal must be located so that it does not interfere with the visibility of the vessel's navigation lights. The identification light signal may be used only as an identification signal and conveys no special privilege. Vessels using the identification light signal during public safety activities must abide by the Inland Navigation Rules, and must not presume that the light or the exigency gives them precedence or right of way. ( B) Public safety activities include but are not limited to patrolling marine parades, regattas, or special water celebrations; traffic control; salvage; firefighting; medical assistance; assisting disabled vessels; and search and rescue.


Hope that helps I would recommend calling your local USCG Station ( http://www.uscg.mil/top/units/ ) Speak with a local Boarding officer for exact guidance in your area.


I can tell you on our 25" Response boat small (RBS) I upgraded six of our Maritime Safety Security Team Assets from the dual Whelen 2012 Strobes non sync-able to the led L31 set to the signal alert alternating flash. Our boat drivers (Coxswains) reported back that they had a sharp increase in other vessel operators to yield to them both day and night I would simply use 2 sync-able Led beacons mounted as far apart as possible for the most effective viewing I would also recommend after install operate lights at night and install some sort of deflector to ensure new lights do not Illuminate your vessel (illuminating the bow of your vessel Like flashback from a windshield) operating at night these lights could drastically effect the operators night vision while operating.


As for scene lighting interior lighting we use standard marine flood Lights and for interior we use yellow led strip lights on a dimmer switch


hope that helped in some way and I will check with my references tomorrow when I go in for details on lighting color for warning.

 

[acala91]

Mini edges and edges (and the lenses) aren't hard to find out there, so they wouldn't have to worry about paying $500-600. I also do not personally find halogens (especially slower rotating halogen lights) effective for this application

I disagree. In this application you aren't really looking for warning, more of a light for ID purposes and a halogen rotator is going to be visible from a lot farther way than an LED mini bar.

 

[Goodsam]

Ok I concluded my research with the Navigation Rules my previous quotes are correct you may display an alternating red and yellow light source. By Navigation Rules and this is what I would reference and (reference is also noted on the boarding form) if I was conducting a boarding on your Departments vessel in a navigable water way. You will find my quotes in the below reference if you desire to look. I did a search of the page for blue and it took me right to it.


Also be cautious with what Audible warning device you use as there are many regulation in the reference I provided under sounds and light signals. I personally would avoid any Siren that came with an electronic air horn. The air horn could unintentionally be used to provide a sound signal meaning something very specific by the Navigational rules that the operator of the air horn may not know they are signaling (i.e Long and Short Blasts. 1,2,or 3 blast all mean something specific)


here are the two the Coast guard uses the first one was replaced by the second one


1. http://www.boatersland.com/ray430a.html


2. http://www.boatersland.com/furlh3000.html


I understand these are expensive but paired with the pictured speaker they are quite effective not saying to buy from here either just a reference


I will say on the water usually good intentions go along ways and the Coast Guards normal goal is compliance not fines. not saying you wont receive a fine but they mostly look for compliance with the Code of Federal Regulations.


my reference for the Navigation rules:


http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/COMDTINST_M16672_2D_NavRules_as_published.pdf


Best of luck Goodsam

 

[50theman]

Put a small beacon light and large mechanical siren on that boat. It always cleared the way on "Flipper" :haha:





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