Missouri Officers.. Question about Legality of OC

localhero800

Member
May 22, 2010
1,333
Southeast Missouri
I am Crew Chief of a Property Preservation company. We go into Re-Posesed houses and have to ; gain entry, re-key the locks, remove health hazards( fuel, chemicals,ect). secure the property, and bid to fix the problems with the houses. If we know that an area is a "bad" area, we have the local PD meet us there.. We sometimes are there for several (5-7) hours, and its not possible for an officer to stay there all the time.. We have had Ex-owners, people who used to buy drugs from the house, ect ect, come back into the houses while we are there , cause a neighbor called.. I obvously know that they have to threaten your well-being, but when can i "legaly" spray someone with OC??
 

Fluffy126577

New Member
May 24, 2010
721
Toledo, OH
MISSOURI: Legal.


It is permissible to use or possess a device that ejects a "temporary incapacitating substance". Section 571.010 (8).


In almost every state it is legal to carry pepper spray as a defense mechanism. Some states obviously require you to be over 18 and not use it in the commission of another crime. :)
 

Fluffy126577

New Member
May 24, 2010
721
Toledo, OH
I would assume when you feel you life is in danger. As long as you can justify that with the police then I don't see where there would be an issue. :)
 

localhero800

Member
May 22, 2010
1,333
Southeast Missouri
Ok.. i Figured that, i just want to cover my butt.. I completely feel like, if someone is going to do something without a weapon, and i can get a good solid hit.. im not afraid to knock someone out, but some times thats not possible, and we do have a couple Female workers( no offense to any females) that wouldnt be able to fight back.. and in that case.. getting them to use OC would be much easier than teaching them to fight. lol thanks fluffy!
 

mfaith91

Member
May 23, 2010
166
Kentucky
How's about something a little more lethal- ie. tazer-gun?


If there's gang-bangers showing up... OC is going to incapacitate one person, but his buddies are more than likely going to be armed with something a little more potent than OC.


Can you get a CCDW permit in MS?


Mike
 

Stendec

Member
May 21, 2010
816
IANAL, but if you wait until your life is threatened, you waited too long. Properly used, OC is a substitute for punching somebody's lights out, which is a lot harder on the street than in the ring, and usually comes with a couple fractured bones in your hand, and blood that you don't know if it came from the perp, or when his teeth cut your knuckles. From a common law perspective, you can use force when it is reasonable to believe that a threat sufficient to require force to put down presents itself, and your use of force is sufficient to quell the threat, not rising to the level of retaliation or assault. There is no legal bright line, but cops and prosecutors normally can tell which way the OC blows. Use it on the right people, the cops may get you refills on the house, pardon the pun.


Your best option is to leave. Sweeping decomposing rats out of a HUD house isn't worth the literal or physical headache. Or write your contracts in such a way that the person you are working for has to provide security, or talk to your bonding company - maybe they will lower your rates enough that you can hire your own minimum wage thug.
 

localhero800

Member
May 22, 2010
1,333
Southeast Missouri
mfaith91 said:
How's about something a little more lethal- ie. tazer-gun?

If there's gang-bangers showing up... OC is going to incapacitate one person, but his buddies are more than likely going to be armed with something a little more potent than OC.


Can you get a CCDW permit in MS?


Mike

Yes, you can get a Concealed carry permit in MO. I have a .40, and a 9mm, but carrying a gun is not a feasable task.. We are contractors.. ie, in and out of crawl spaces, up and down attic ladders, maintin lawns, ect ect. It would get in the way..


And in some of these neighborhoods, i remove my dash light, as i drive a white silverado, and i dont want to look like an officer in any way..


We dont have the "bad" properties every week, just every once in a while. and we will never know the area till we get there..
 

localhero800

Member
May 22, 2010
1,333
Southeast Missouri
Stendec said:
IANAL, but if you wait until your life is threatened, you waited too long. Properly used, OC is a substitute for punching somebody's lights out, which is a lot harder on the street than in the ring, and usually comes with a couple fractured bones in your hand, and blood that you don't know if it came from the perp, or when his teeth cut your knuckles. From a common law perspective, you can use force when it is reasonable to believe that a threat sufficient to require force to put down presents itself, and your use of force is sufficient to quell the threat, not rising to the level of retaliation or assault. There is no legal bright line, but cops and prosecutors normally can tell which way the OC blows. Use it on the right people, the cops may get you refills on the house, pardon the pun.

Your best option is to leave. Sweeping decomposing rats out of a HUD house isn't worth the literal or physical headache. Or write your contracts in such a way that the person you are working for has to provide security, or talk to your bonding company - maybe they will lower your rates enough that you can hire your own minimum wage thug.


I would love not to work on there properties, but if we tell them no on the bad ones, we wont get the "good" jobs.. When we do have a problem, Pd gets called, and a report taken.. Only had to use the spray once, and i guess then never found the guy, as he took off running. Most of the time, when people walk in unannounced, and walk right up to me and i pull out the OC.. they either run back out and call PD( which we have already called) , or yell " dont spray me" .. and take a few steps back.. I just wanted to make sure my butt was covered, in the case of spraying somebody.
 

RJ*

Member
May 21, 2010
346
Finland
mfaith91 said:
How's about something a little more lethal- ie. tazer-gun?

TaSer! TaSer! TaSer! Not tazer.

mfaith91 said:
If there's gang-bangers showing up... OC is going to incapacitate one person, but his buddies are more than likely going to be armed with something a little more potent than OC.

And how is a taser any different? With OC you might be able to spray multiple opponents, the taser always gets just one (or less).
 

mfaith91

Member
May 23, 2010
166
Kentucky
I've always put a "Z" in Tazer (I know how it is properly spelled). It goes back to an internal joke from quite some time ago, and the Z is for Zap.


Mike
 
May 21, 2010
1,176
NJ & IA
RJ* said:
TaSer! TaSer! TaSer! Not tazer.


And how is a taser any different? With OC you might be able to spray multiple opponents, the taser always gets just one (or less).

Well for me, when working with multiple opponents that i need to incapacitate i have found an excellent solution: frag grenades! Just pull one out of your pocket, pull the pin, and throw it into the middle of your group of neighborhood baddies. The ones that don't scatter in time will be incapacitated long enough for PD to arrive and take them away. :lol:


Seriously: Do you carry a baton such as ASP? good supplement to the OC or taser, which ever you prefer. (don't tase them and beat them. Tase one, beat the others ;) )
 

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