Moving to PA need advice on Light / Siren Laws

[ark_firefighter]

Okay so the wife has decided that we are moving to PA due to her getting a EMS job there and she dragged me into the company to.


So ... time to ditch the red lights and go blue.


Can I go interior only or do I need a lightbar ? I know sirens arn't allowed unless your a chief, but can I use a stand alone air horn ?


Will I be able to use clear and amber at all or is it allllll blue ?


PM's will be great as I'm not on ELB a lot anymore.

 

[TritonBoulder47]

Sirens with blue are a definite NO... I've been told that air horns are legal for vollies to use.


As far as lights, there is the law and there's what the LEOs in your area will let slide... Clear is technically a no, but I've seen it used. Amber is technically a no, but I, as well as loads of others, use amber to the rear. The law states that you you're primary warning device needs to be 360, but like I said, it all depends on how strict/lenient the LEOs in your area are...

 

[WS224]

Maybe you should move and get on a department before you worry about this.

 

[ffemt045]

good luck where ya moving to?

 

[rofowacker]

Red for sale? I have a blue edge bar with 12 strobes.... I am in pa and need to go red for next year.


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

 

[ark_firefighter]

Maybe you should move and get on a department before you worry about this.

With the fact that there are over 2600 Fire Departments in PA plus my certifications I won't have to worry about getting on a FD.

 

[ark_firefighter]

Red for sale? I have a blue edge bar with 12 strobes.... I am in pa and need to go red for next year.


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

All the red's have been clamed by a local FF here, sorry


12 strobes is a little much for me, I'm an 8 strobe 2 power supply fan myself.

 

[NPS Ranger]

Link:


Pennsylvania Code


Vollies/blue lighters are "authorized" vehicles, as opposed to "emergency" vehicles under this code. Read it carefully because it's needlessly confusing.


Blue lighters: max of 2 lights or 1 lightbar, 360 degree requirement, no clear, red or amber, no interior mounted lights of any kind, no HAW's/LAW's of any kind, no HLF's, no siren. If you're not an ass****, and especially if the local cops know you, you can probably get away with more. Newly minted PSP troopers have been known to apply the law as written &/or confiscate lights. I agree with the above poster, focus on earning respect on your new department rather than what lights you need. Around here a single blue minibar is the norm but many people still have a single dashlight instead (the law banning interior mounted lights for all non-LEO became effective in 2007).

 

[ark_firefighter]

I read the entire code and didn't see anything saying only 2 lights... I did see no dashlights allowed but Lightbars okay...so if you have to have 360* coverage and don't run a lightbar what "2" lights will do that ?


Oh well Gonna build a LED Edge 9000 and throw on some Microman's on the LP's


Why are yall so harping on this joining a department and earning respect issue ? Who says I haven't already talked to some chiefs ??? I normaly don't do anything with planning at least 2 plans.


This fourm is about lights and sirens ... not about if I'm qualified to your personal standards to serve on a Fire or EMS Department.


WS224 and NPS Ranger don't worry I won't bring my business to you, doubt I'd have your "respect" to buy what you have for sale anyways.

 

[TritonBoulder47]

12 strobes is perfect... Look at my truck... LoL

 

[SlickTop Solutions]

My only experience is selling said lights....


I have sold all blue, blue/white, blue/amber, and even blue/red. Interior dash, deck and visor lights, grill lights, surface mount with various brackets, mini light bars and full on light bars.


From the outside looking in, it does appear to depend on where you are located, who your chief is, and how well the local LE gets along with the local vollies.


My advise (probably worth a whole lot less than .02) is buy a mini bar of your choice in all blue and start with that.


Good luck with the move, does this mean I can sell you lights at one of the shows next year??

 

[ark_firefighter]

12 strobes is perfect... Look at my truck... LoL

Well for a Ford Ranger I think 12 strobes would be a little much LOL...

 

[ark_firefighter]

does this mean I can sell you lights at one of the shows next year??

Make you a deal, after I get settled I'll send you a PM ...

 

[NPS Ranger]

I read the entire code and didn't see anything saying only 2 lights.

(3) Blue lights. A vehicle may display blue lights as provided for by 75 Pa.C.S. § 4572(a) (relating to visual signals on authorized vehicles). Vehicles described in 75 Pa.C.S. § 4572(a) may be equipped with a light-bar assembly using only blue lights.


§ 4572. Visual signals on authorized vehicles.


(a) Flashing or revolving blue lights.--Ambulance personnel,


volunteer firefighters, certified volunteer search and rescue


organization members and owners and handlers of dogs used in


tracking humans may each equip one motor vehicle with no more


than two flashing or revolving blue lights.

With the fact that there are over 2600 Fire Departments in PA plus my certifications I won't have to worry about getting on a FD.

Why are yall so harping on this joining a department and earning respect issue ? Who says I haven't already talked to some chiefs ??? I normaly don't do anything with planning at least 2 plans.


This fourm is about lights and sirens ... not about if I'm qualified to your personal standards to serve on a Fire or EMS Department.


WS224 and NPS Ranger don't worry I won't bring my business to you, doubt I'd have your "respect" to buy what you have for sale anyways.

Since I don't sell anything, I'm not too worried. By the way, I posted the link to the vehicle code and a few sentences of explanation in order to be helpful to you, cause you asked a question. I said you have to earn the respect of your new department, the world is full of probies who show up with a car full of lights and their application hasn't even been voted on yet. I never said anything about my standards or if you're qualified for anything, I really couldn't care less. But if you feel that with your "certifications you won't have to worry about getting on an FD" then I guess you've proven my point. Good luck with your move.

 

[SlickTop Solutions]

Make you a deal, after I get settled I'll send you a PM ...

Deal....

 

[Support Services]

Where in PA are you locating to? I am in south central and run with one of the larger EMS agency's.

 

[whatevah]

I live in Delaware but do some side jobs in PA as an EMT... The law is a few posts up and basically calls for a roof-mounted lightbar, but it really needs to be revised. In my mind, it's talking about the old-school bars with two can rotators on the sides and a siren speaker in the middle. I'm a huge fan of 360* coverage for safety but there are some guys out there running grill/dash lights only. Bluelighters can't "run code" in the normal sense, so you can't break speed laws or bust intersections which makes 360* less important. My boss has a pretty simple setup, TIR3s in the grill, dual talon on the dash, rotator throw light for the roof and a SOS XP63 at the top of his back window.


But, every area is different, some will let you get away with a full whacker slicktop setup while others enforce the two-light roof law. I've heard that some area police even prefer slicktops. For this reason it's best to wait until you join a department and find out what the "local way" is. I don't think it's about respect, just knowing what actually works in that area.

 

[markko]

Wow. I'm glad I'm in WI where they allow anything as long as it's red or red/white...including sirens.

 

[RescueWV]

There have been several good citations of the law and interpretations of it, so I won't go any further into that...


I WILL say that, having been all over PA, that local custom definitely dictates a lot of what there is as far as POV lighting. For departments that allow POV lights, you'll see anything from (illegal) dash lights, along with other illegal warning items (ie. HAWs and wig-wags are a no-go for blue-lighters) to full-sized and fully whacked out set-ups, it all depends on what the Chief and local police tolerate.


However, on the other end of things, you will also run into quite a few departments where you won't see a single lit-up POV, either because of written company policy forbidding them, or just a mutual understanding that it's not something people in that particular department utilize.


With that being said, I will echo the comments of other posters in recommending you figure out exactly where you're going and which department you're joining before you invest any of your money in lighting that you might not need or be able to use...

 

[WS224]

This fourm is about lights and sirens ... not about if I'm qualified to your personal standards to serve on a Fire or EMS Department.

WS224 and NPS Ranger don't worry I won't bring my business to you, doubt I'd have your "respect" to buy what you have for sale anyways.

I don't care to have your business - wasn't selling anything then or now. Just seems like setting your truck up to be PA compliant wouln't really be an issue til you actually got there.


I would personally be a bit Leary of a guy that showed up with a full size bar and said, hey, just moved here from Arkansas and am looking for a department. Regardless of what you know, think you know, or want to know, I think it will not make for the greatest first impression, but at the same time, I really don't care.


Run red and a siren there for all I care.

 

[TCO]

what part of Pa are you moving to, there is some departments that do not allow lights at all and some that require you to complete 6 months to a year of probation before they can be used . belive me i went into a company with 15 years experience and was unable to use and had to remove the lights from my veh unitil the probation was over. i am with everyone else,wait till you get here,get accepted to a company then worry about the volly lights. every department in Pa the chief says what can and cannot be used along WITH the laws and local leo will allow above or below the actual laws. it would suck to buy lights and not being able to use them.

 

[Phillyrube]

Gotta wonder about someone asking about POV lights, not about the agency, types of calls, etc.

 

[SlickTop Solutions]

For those of you speculating, Ark hasn't been in Arkansas for a while now, as he has been volunteering in OH while his better half has been doing her EMS thing there (someone has to pay for his addiction). If you have been a member of any of the boards in the past and paid any attention, you would know this based on his postings.

 

[ark_firefighter]

Gotta wonder about someone asking about POV lights, not about the agency, types of calls, etc.

I'm not asking about POV lights, I've been using lights and sirens for 13 years... I was asking about the LAW requirments/restrictions.


I've already done my home work on the departments I'm interested in joining. And I beleave Fire/Rescue Departments deal with Fires and Rescues... :duh:

 

[ark_firefighter]

For those of you speculating, Ark hasn't been in Arkansas for a while now, as he has been volunteering in OH while his better half has been doing her EMS thing there (someone has to pay for his addiction). If you have been a member of any of the boards in the past and paid any attention, you would know this based on his postings.

Well thank you sir ... I see that at least 1 person in this fourm group is paying attention ... I always wondered what the words under everyone's avatars are. :undecided:

 

[Ipuvaepe]

no interior mounted lights of any kind

This is actually not true. It is just extremely frustrating to have no more than 2 lights be visible 360° from inside. Also PACode is nearly 30 years out of date, as someone who used to reference that site.

If you want perfect indisputable legality, you may have no more than two lights, no HAW/LAW, no TLF, no amber, no white, no airhorn/siren, and flashing blue light must be visible to all 360°


No Airhorn/Siren

( B) Certain sound deviced prohibited -- Except as specifically provided in this part or by regulations of the department, no vehicle operated on a highway shall be equipped with a siren, bell, whistle or any device emitting a similar sound or any unreasonably loud or harsh sound.

Max 2 Lights

(a) Flashing or revolving blue lights. -- Ambulance personnel, volunteer firefighters, certified volunteer search and rescue organization members and owners and handlers of dogs used in tracking humans may each equip one motor vehicle with no more than two flashing or revolving blue lights.

I just bought a new laptop so I do not have my legal bookmarks set up, will grab them tomorrow. Oh and Ranger, here's a better link 2010 Pennsylvania Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia.


For maximum strictly legal strictly interior lighting in a sedan, I'd go for a minibar on the deck and a firebeam or slimlighter on the dash.


Fact is in PA it's mostly a combination of department policy and local/state LEOs. For example, many people don't know that green and purple lights here are only regulated on authorized vehicles (not emergency vehicles and not any random persons car), though you would probably get stopped every half mile.


EDIT: Also, sometime between 1988 and 2007 the wording was changed from "2 lights or 1 lightbar" to "2 lights" where a "light" is defined as "a source of light", which means that you can have a lightbar and another light.


Where I live, most vollies have a single minibar (usually the Code 3 420). I have heard that a lot of departments prohibit any lights at all, but in my (and several other PA board members) opinion the blue light lets people (and arguably more importanly, LEOs) know that you aren't just some asshole trying to get somewhere.

 

[NPS Ranger]

Actually, if you look at permissible mounting locations for "police vehicles" you find:


(iv) Inside the passenger compartment, clearly visible through the front windshield.


(v) Inside the passenger compartment, clearly visible through the rear window.


(viii) With respect to flashing lights only, within the nondriver’s compartment-side window.


If you look at permissible mounting locations for "emergency vehicles, except police vehicles" and "authorized vehicles" (blue and amber lights) those locations are not listed and those that are listed are much more restrictive.


One of the reasons the law was revised was at the urging of the PA Chiefs of Police Association, which believed that after 9/11 they wanted to remove any ability for a volunteer or non-law-enforcement vehicle to masquerade as a slicktop police vehicle.


However in reality, many people still use dashlights because either they never heard of the changed law, or the cops in that area either don't know or couldn't care less.

 

[WS224]

I'm not asking about POV lights, I've been using lights and sirens for 13 years... I was asking about the LAW requirments/restrictions.

I've already done my home work on the departments I'm interested in joining. And I beleave Fire/Rescue Departments deal with Fires and Rescues... :duh:

Guess that depends on what "beleave" means.....

 

[Ipuvaepe]

I did see that on PACode, but what I read was last revised late 60s. I tried to find the section on Justia a few months back and couldn't, though it is entirely likely I just missed it (even thought so at the time). Link so I can add it to my bookmarks please.

 

[medic550]

Also just for reference, coming from ohio where your lights give you ev status. Here with blue its a courtesy light.