New FD Brush Pickup lighting thoughts/ideas needed.

[MRFD715]

My FD is going to try to put together a new Brush Pickup next year. This will be done in house and of course, on a limited budget. The chassis will be a crew cab RAM 3500 or Ford 350 cab & chassis and we will be installing an aluminum flatbed with a skid unit. This will also be used as our backup EMS rig and personnel carrier when needed.

It will have a full size lightbar, most likely mounted on the headache rack of the flatbed. I was thinking a couple of 7x3's on the grille, T6's above the front wheels and about halfway down the flatbed, and either 7x3's or T6's on the rear. What does everyone think of that? We are very rural, only have one "major" intersection(4-Way Stop Sign) to get through in town so simple is good for us. Any suggestions on manufacturer to go with, I've been leaning toward Feniex. Any general idea what a setup like that would cost?

This would be replacing a 1975 Dodge/Pierce and most everyone else around here has older rigs with halogens & strobes for warning so I don't really have any new trucks to go look at and get ideas from.

I have never done a full install before, just some lightheads here and there, so this will be something completely new for me. I plan on keeping things simple with just switches for the lights and a stand alone siren as that's how all of our current rigs are set up. Any tips, tricks, or advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Edit to add: Lightbar will be Red/Blue, 7x3's would be Red & Blue (Solid, not split), T6's would be Red, or possibly Red/Clear but would be flashed solid(Maybe not a good idea?)

 

[801]

Sounds like you have a solid plan. One recommendation, you will get lots here, is to move the T6's as far forward as possible (if you are installing a brush guard, that's a great place) for maximum intersection warning. Please no split fail light heads and program slow sync'ed patterns. Large blocks of easily identifiable lights are much more effective.
I've never used Fenix, my agency has pretty much been FedSig and Whelen. We tried SoundOff, after having to replace a lightbar/siren controller 3 times under warranty, we called that a failed experiment.

 

[buddek09]

Sounds like a good setup and you will be happy with Feniex. I would agree that moving the side T6 forward as far as possible would be better. As far as cost for the lights it really depends on if you go with single color or dual color lightbar and lights. I would keep the 7x3's single color.

 

[MRFD715]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys. As far as the front T6's, would they fit between the wheel well and the headlight? I completely understand the point of keeping them forward for intersection warning, we probably will not be installing a brush guard so that might be the best spot if they would fit. I updated the original post with what I'm thinking for colors.

I'm just trying to get as complete of a picture as I can in my head so when we take this to our board we can lay it all out for them, they are very detail oriented.

 

[buddek09]

As long as you keep the T6's on the fender right behind the headlight, picture attached, you should be fine. Since you are rural and not in a city with a lot of intersections to clear. You would be looking at about $1,600 for the lights. Red or Red/White for the front T6's would be fine. Actually with the change from the T6's to the fusion surface mount it's no longer possible to flash split colors. Only thing I'm not sure about is Red/Blue but that's only because in Ohio Red/Blue is usually city police and Red/White is fire.

 

[bmd224]

Buying a used LED lightbar would be a good idea. So long as it's from a name brand such as Whelen, Code 3, Federal Signal, Feniex, or Sound-Off. You can pick up a Liberty for $250-$300, and I see them all the time in Iowa & Mo (I'm in NW MO).

I am a career fire investigator, but my heart & background is in very rural volunteer firefighting (entire dept's annual budget is $20k max, so I'm used to being very thrifty for them on purchases.

I also just finished building in-house a mini pumper rescue truck that doubles as a first responder truck, extrication vehicle, & third out brush truck--yes, they have that many brush fires and it's so windy there they have 98 wind mill turbine power plants there).

There's a good skid unit for sale on Craigslist in St. Joseph, MO & it has a Poly tank. I think they want $500.

When you mount the 700 series on the grill, do not mount them next to the headlights. The headlights overpower the flashing lights, drawing out the flashing and making it hard to notice. Instead mount them near in the center of the grill rather than next to the headlights.

Since you're so rural (like my dept), dare I say you may not even need grill lights if you have a good LED lightbar like a Whelen Liberty or Freedom.

In the money you saved on blinky lights, seriously consider adding a solid amount of scene lighting. Nothing sucks worse than trying to back a brush truck up at night near a creek at a nighttime grass fire, or worse--doing vehicle extrication in the dark. Our dept couldn't afford fancy LED scene lights from ROM, Havis, FIre Research Corp, or Whelen, so they bought two 7,000 lumen flood lights (these: http://www.strobesnmore.com/Strobes-N-More-EFlood-7560-Lumen-FloodSpot-Combo_p_4414.html ) & put them on two metal subwoofer speaker poles ($19 each) from a local music store so they would raise & lower from like 30" to 52" for when on scene. They only run 60-ish calls a year so it won't see a lot of severe duty like you would in FDNY.

I'd also put some bright back up lights on the brush truck as you'll do a decent amount of backing in it. If you buy LED scene lights, be sure to get a flood, fog, or wide pattern--not a spot pattern. Spot lights only brighten one tiny spot, & are the wrong choice for what you'll be doing.

Whatever you do, do NOT buy any of those cheap eBay/Amazon/JDI unnamed brand Chinese lights or lightbars. They are all junk.

Buy a used product from a reputable manufacturer & you'll do fine.

If you need help finding a good led lightbar cheap please let me know.

Also, what area of Iowa are you from?

 

[801]

T6's would be Red, or possibly Red/Clear but would be flashed solid

My recommendation would be to stay with a solid color for the T6's since they will be mounted on the side, or spilt red/white for the T6's on the front fender and solid red for the T6's halfway down the flat bed. If you go with the spilt red/white, please alternate red, then white, then red. If they flash together, they will be a very washed out pink color.
I don't know a lot about T6 prices, but would guess that solid color would be less expensive.

 

[buddek09]

I don't know a lot about T6 prices, but would guess that solid color would be less expensive.

T6's are same price regardless of color choices. However unless he's buying used they will not be split color sine the T6's are not offered any more the Fusion Surface Mounts are not split color if you get dual colors. What ever he uses solid colors only unless it's full dual color vs split.

 

[MRFD715]

Buying a used LED lightbar would be a good idea. So long as it's from a name brand such as Whelen, Code 3, Federal Signal, Feniex, or Sound-Off. You can pick up a Liberty for $250-$300, and I see them all the time in Iowa & Mo (I'm in NW MO).

I am a career fire investigator, but my heart & background is in very rural volunteer firefighting (entire dept's annual budget is $20k max, so I'm used to being very thrifty for them on purchases.

I also just finished building in-house a mini pumper rescue truck that doubles as a first responder truck, extrication vehicle, & third out brush truck--yes, they have that many brush fires and it's so windy there they have 98 wind mill turbine power plants there).

There's a good skid unit for sale on Craigslist in St. Joseph, MO & it has a Poly tank. I think they want $500.

When you mount the 700 series on the grill, do not mount them next to the headlights. The headlights overpower the flashing lights, drawing out the flashing and making it hard to notice. Instead mount them near in the center of the grill rather than next to the headlights.

Since you're so rural (like my dept), dare I say you may not even need grill lights if you have a good LED lightbar like a Whelen Liberty or Freedom.

In the money you saved on blinky lights, seriously consider adding a solid amount of scene lighting. Nothing sucks worse than trying to back a brush truck up at night near a creek at a nighttime grass fire, or worse--doing vehicle extrication in the dark. Our dept couldn't afford fancy LED scene lights from ROM, Havis, FIre Research Corp, or Whelen, so they bought two 7,000 lumen flood lights (these: http://www.strobesnmore.com/Strobes-N-More-EFlood-7560-Lumen-FloodSpot-Combo_p_4414.html ) & put them on two metal subwoofer speaker poles ($19 each) from a local music store so they would raise & lower from like 30" to 52" for when on scene. They only run 60-ish calls a year so it won't see a lot of severe duty like you would in FDNY.

I'd also put some bright back up lights on the brush truck as you'll do a decent amount of backing in it. If you buy LED scene lights, be sure to get a flood, fog, or wide pattern--not a spot pattern. Spot lights only brighten one tiny spot, & are the wrong choice for what you'll be doing.

Whatever you do, do NOT buy any of those cheap eBay/Amazon/JDI unnamed brand Chinese lights or lightbars. They are all junk.

Buy a used product from a reputable manufacturer & you'll do fine.

If you need help finding a good led lightbar cheap please let me know.

Also, what area of Iowa are you from?

I have thought about used, and suggested it, but the Chief said he would like to go with new. I can't say I disagree with him, the three other rigs we have built in-house have used/recycled lights on them and we have plenty of trouble with them. I was thinking about $2,000 for lighting (warning & scene) so I'll have to see what they think about spending a little more than that or revisit the used topic. Anything we buy/build new we plan on it being in service for 30-35 years so we try to do a good job of it the first time around. I am from Northern Iowa, up in Floyd County.

Thank You, and everyone else, for your advice so far, I'm keeping notes. If we can make this happen I want to have a good plan in place so that it can be done quickly, and properly!

 

[firemedic10584]

I didn't read all the replies on here, but I'm sure my reply is the same as most others. I'd stick with Feniex lighting personally. That's what I use on both departments I work for when I change / upgrade lighting and use on all POVs I do installs on. For the price(s), you really get a great product with great customer service / care behind it. Almost everything they (Feniex) have today all have the flood (steady white) option. So, minimal lighting would be needed but can still have warning and flood modes. I agree with avoiding split color lightheads. If you need red/blue, do one module red and the other blue. Avoid fast, seizure like flash patterns. I think everything else you have a good idea and plan of what you're going to do. Take your time and make everything nice and neat and I think it'll be an awesome install!

 

[NPS Ranger]

Since this will be a flatbed brush truck & presumably used off road, and since you should have good front/side/rear coverage with the directional lightheads you mentioned, you might consider using an LED beacon up top such as a Whelen L31 instead of a fullsize bar. It's much easier to protect a beacon with a branch guard, & you'll save a bunch of $$$ if your chief insists on new equipment. I agree with the recommendations for as much scene lighting as you can afford, the scene LED's are getting cheaper and cheaper.

 

[pdk9]

It will have a full size lightbar, most likely mounted on the headache rack of the flatbed. I was thinking a couple of 7x3's on the grille, T6's above the front wheels and about halfway down the flatbed, and either 7x3's or T6's on the rear. What does everyone think of that? We are very rural, only have one "major" intersection(4-Way Stop Sign) to get through in town so simple is good for us. Any suggestions on manufacturer to go with, I've been leaning toward Feniex. Any general idea what a setup like that would cost?
.....
Edit to add: Lightbar will be Red/Blue, 7x3's would be Red & Blue (Solid, not split), T6's would be Red, or possibly Red/Clear but would be flashed solid(Maybe not a good idea?)

7x3s are good, and I'd go with a HLF up front. I would not go with the T6s because they are a TIR optic (not bright unless viewed head-on). Instead, I'd go with Feniex fusion lightheads (with the 180 linear optics) in solid red or solid blue. For the front intersection light, id mount it further towards the front of the front fender (directly behind the headlight housing), not over the wheel well.

Definitely go with solid color 7x3s toward the rear. They're a much larger footprint, and I think the rear is most important to protect you anytime you're stopped on/near the road. You should have no less than 2 levels of rear warning (upper and lower) for this size vehicle.

One thing to consider is leaving the rear of the lightbar (or portions of it) blank/non-populated, especially if the skid reel is gonna block any part of it. However, Even if the skid reel sits low and doesn't obstruct it, it'd still opt to leave the rear of the bar empty (except for the corners) and use the saved money towards 2 beacons mounted towards the upper rear. I like beacons because they provide a dual function of both upper rear and upper side warning. I like the Whelen L-series beacons, but those are pricey, so I'd recommend a pair of the Strobes N More Elite beacon (very bright for $130)

Even though you're a rural Dept, I'd still go with 3 fusion 180s on the sides: front fender, front of bed, rear of bed. Or, id go with 2 fusion 180's (front fender and center of skid bed) IF you have a rear corner beacon.

Sample setup:
FRONT: 1 red and 1 blue 7x3, headlight flasher, any lightbar (only with corners and front-facing Inboards)
SIDES: 2-3 fusion 180s in solid red or blue
REAR: 2 SNM Elite beacons (1 red and 1 blue) and 2 Amber 7x3
Reflective striping on sides and rear of the skid bed is a definite!