New Multi Color Fed Sig Lightbar

Maybe it's just me, but: I have to choose between takedowns and having a forward facing red? I can't have both without hotfeet?
 
Hi J. Forbes, this is Federal Signal responding to your question hoping to clear this up for you. The new Valor Lightbar uses SpecraLux technology which is the same as the new Vision SLR in which all location can be multiple colors. This means you can have a TD in the same position as a warning light. Depending upon what options you choose will determine if you need a HotFoot.


More information to come as we get closer to the production release date which we do not have official dates at this time.
 
FederalSignal said:
Hi J. Forbes, this is Federal Signal responding to your question hoping to clear this up for you. The new Valor Lightbar uses SpecraLux technology which is the same as the new Vision SLR in which all location can be multiple colors. This means you can have a TD in the same position as a warning light. Depending upon what options you choose will determine if you need a HotFoot.

More information to come as we get closer to the production release date which we do not have official dates at this time.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Definitely makes it more interesting. Solid burning red (for CA compliance) while driving, then turn it to takedown once stopped... Might be interesting. Kinda' cool to see another manufacturer represented here. Thanks for posting the info FedSig!


The Rontan was the first thing I thought of too, due to the shape.
 
I've been kinda disappointed in FedSig for giving the Streethawk and the Vista the axe, and I've been figuring that other older halogen and strobe lightbars will go soon too, so that makes me sad... but this definitely makes me feel a LOT better about the direction FedSig is going in. I don't generally like LED lightbars, but I really love rotating LED lightbars, and LED lightbars with all colors already built in are very versatile - even more so than the halogen Vision, since each light could only be a single color (except for the inner front and rear filters), so naturally I LOVE the Vision SLR (if that's the right name for it). But I still prefer to see colored lenses - clear-lens LED lightbars seem a bit too subtle to me.


And as for the California laws requiring steady red in front and flashing amber in back - maybe you could get a Hotfoot with steady red in front and flashing amber in back, so you can use that along with takedowns and not have to compromise flashing lights for steady ones in the main length of the lightbar (since there are a limited number of lights in any lightbar)
 
I would love to see a whole line of product's (grille lights, dash lights, surface mounts, etc. ) with the 4 color LED technology that's in this bar. Also, I think making a conversion kit for the Arjent or updating the Arjent to this would be awesome.
 
I don't much like the shape of the Arjent (or the Vista that it was based on) but I do like the Raydian, mainly because you can get colored domes for it, so maybe it could get the 4-colored LEDs in a more traditional shape and at a lower cost (since the Raydian seems to be more of a budget-friendly option anyway)


I do agree that it'd be nice to have all sorts of lights in a multicolor version, but I'd prefer to place particular emphasis on rotating lights. I also would suggest that certain flash patterns based on the multicolor capability (and any other LED flash pattern as well, for that matter) be used wisely so as to produce the best effect - if, for example, the lightbar is just alternating between red on the left and blue on the right, it should turn completely off between switching colors, and preferably add some strobey flickering to produce a more effective signal. I tend to think that a lot of FedSig's flash patterns for newer LED lightbars aren't that great, since they rely more on extended "on" time and brightness, rather than brief "on" time and strobey flash patterns. For best effect, I mainly prefer two or three very quick flashes and then a longer one, like this:


_ _ ______


either alternating, or random.
 
This product was also at the Nj State Expo. It is very bright. You have the feature of using the take down with just "4" led mod's with both the hot foot set-up and 2 mods in the lightbar. The bar also has the feature of using all the front leds as takedown lights. All I will say is wow. Federal Signal said the bar will be around $1200 or so. He said it will be very affordable even with multi color set-up.


ai133.photobucket.com_albums_q48_ff168577_091.jpg with the hot foot set-up


ai133.photobucket.com_albums_q48_ff168577_090.jpg with all forward facing leds as takedown lights.


ai133.photobucket.com_albums_q48_ff168577_111.jpg-side view in blue with night shot.


ai133.photobucket.com_albums_q48_ff168577_106.jpg- side view without lights.


ai133.photobucket.com_albums_q48_ff168577_104.jpg front view
 
Looks interesting. One thing that bugs me though is how high it sits off the roof. I know it's for the hotfoot option on the mounts but it just looks wrong. Maybe offer a low profile mounting option?
 
Great looking product from FS. I was very impressed with the sleek design. However, I took a very close look at the lightbar (there were two of them on the show floor) and I see a few issues:


1. 11 screws to remove the single piece top lens. Changing out a single lighthead for repair/replace or any repair for that matter could take significantly longer b/c of this.


2. I am thinking this is PIPs mounting on the bar that not everyone would use, but it requires 8 holes in the roof.


3. Front facing light output is significantly lower than the competition


4. Overall light output is not up to par with the current C3 and W offerings - even a SOS bar


5. Price - it is obvious to me that a lot of R&D went into this product (top lens alone) - if $1200 is accurate (doesn't sound right to me) that will be bad for the industry as a whole.


6. Draw could be an issue depending on how the white is emitted


Nonetheless, kudos to the FS crew. It definitely was an attention grabber at the show.


C3Kurt
 
C3Kurt said:
5. Price - it is obvious to me that a lot of R&D went into this product (top lens alone) - if $1200 is accurate (doesn't sound right to me) that will be bad for the industry as a whole.
Click to expand...

Why??
 
When a top of the line technology sells for the price of lower or mid-level technology is when the bottom feeders creep in. Lighting technology becomes a commodity rather than a specialized solution. This is why there are so many sub-standard products that are purchased on price alone right now. When perception is that a top of the line lightbar should cost $1200, it dilutes the market.


The companies that continue to drop and drop their price (or sell at a ridiculously low price) will be fine for now because they can keep the factories pumping in a bad economy to cover their fixed costs, but in five years as things get better they could be in real trouble (as they expand and variable costs go through they roof). The end result is that market share will be lost to these bottom feeders.


Just my opinion.


C3Kurt
 
Point taken, but you're assuming that the cost of product and production is the same, and the company is just lowering the sell price.


One of the big advantages of the ROC technology is that it requires so little labour to put the bar together. Now, with the LED Takedown and Alley lights just machine-mounted right on the ROC board, the assembler doesn't have to hand-install the scene lights anymore either. Result - a dramatic savings in the cost of the bar, therefore they can lower the sell price and still make a reasonable margin. All that is the result of huge R&D and a patented board design, so they've invested heavily to do that.


But, if a Valor bar is $1200 and a crappy bar is also $1200 or close to it, people are more likely to buy my good bar that's about the same price. If I take a $2000 bar and put it up against a crappy $1200 bar, the decision is harder for people - do they spend the extra $800 for quality, or buy the cheap bar for $1200 and just accept the inferior quality.


I'm not sure what a Liberty is selling for down in the US, but up here in Canada, the big Whelen distributor has been selling loaded liberty bars (48", not the economy modules) for $1250 for 3 years.
 
$1200 for this kind of lightbar is DIRT CHEAP. Code 3 is selling some lightbars at over $5000 new. Their cheapest standard model is a 55-inch LP6000 for a wrecker, with 2 rotators and cascade mirrors, for $605.


FedSig had better sell that for a lot more if they don't want to ruin the market.
 
nerdly_dood said:
$1200 for this kind of lightbar is DIRT CHEAP. Code 3 is selling some lightbars at over $5000 new. Their cheapest standard model is a 55-inch LP6000 for a wrecker, with 2 rotators and cascade mirrors, for $605.

FedSig had better sell that for a lot more if they don't want to ruin the market.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you get your pricing information, but $5000 even for a LIST price Code 3 Defender (top of the line) or any other Code 3 lightbar is grossly inaccurate.


C3Kurt
 
cool, and I hope they keep the price down if they can make it for that and still be top quality and save me some money more power to them.
 
C3Kurt said:
Not sure where you get your pricing information, but $5000 even for a LIST price Code 3 Defender (top of the line) or any other Code 3 lightbar is grossly inaccurate.


C3Kurt
Click to expand...

I got it from a PDF on the Code 3 website. 48-inch Defenders are EXPENSIVE. (The most expensive 47-inch version is $4,405.87)


http://code3pse.com/pdf/c3l0509_3-4.pdf
 
nerdly_dood said:
I got it from a PDF on the Code 3 website. 48-inch Defenders are EXPENSIVE. (The most expensive 47-inch version is $4,405.87)


http://code3pse.com/pdf/c3l0509_3-4.pdf[/quote:nl9qmtj8]


Now you are at a little over $4400. Not the $5,000 you were quoting. But I am sure you will give me the "you didn't include the sales tax." I can appreciate that along with a little friendly back and forth.


Since you are quite pro-FedSig from the looks of your posts, lets take a look at the list pricing on the top of the line FedSig bar for example.


Federal Signal Raydian


http://www.fedsig.com/industry_solution ... n_S2_7.pdf


$4870.50


No offense to the FS people, but I'd put the Defender up against the Raydian any day. I have both in my office and the signal from the Raydian does not come close to the Defender (and yes I do take them outside :) ).


I'm not going to spend to much time arguing list pricing, because 1/10th of 1 percent of customers pay list pricing (if that).


But quoting $5,000 for a Code 3 lightbar without some sort of backup information is very misleading. Secondly, $1200 for the Valor would definitely not be the List Price.


C3Kurt
Click to expand...
 
This pricing is insanity. I'd kill to see a commonly adjusted price schedule for the average setups in the 70s through today, and also as a percentage of fleet costs. Granted there have been huge leaps in technology, but value is a whole different story. I don't have the balls to propose putting 2k worth of lights on any of our fleet, particularly when we can hardly afford gas, training ammo, and half the guys need remedial report writing training.


Companies need to ratchet these prices down bigtime. 20 years ago they might have gotten away with it, 'cause all the cars had were lights, siren, a radio and maybe radar. But now we add in more expensive radio setups, data systems, video systems, LIDAR, LPR, soon the technology costs more than the vehicle it's mounted in, and sure enough, a jail trustee will mess it up. I want mobile FLIR/thermal units on the road in the worst way, and if that means bolting a pair of FS100s on a generic crossbar instead of a couple thousand bucks worth of LEDs, i'm all over it.


I'm as much of a gear queer as the next guy, but stop the madness.
 
A Code 3 Defender, model number DF48A2, is listed here as $5,120.86. (Or you could get a loaded LP6000 from sirennet.com for $600)


I don't think of myself as a "FedSig person" - i don't like the fact that they and Whelen have been discontinuing their halogen lightbars, which Code 3 has not done. But FedSig is the first "big-name" lightbar manufacturer to introduce rotating LED lights, and I've always been a fan of rotating lights.


As far as extreme prices go, you can get stuff for MUCH cheaper at http://sirennet.com/
 
nerdly_dood said:
I don't think of myself as a "FedSig person" - i don't like the fact that they and Whelen have been discontinuing their halogen lightbars, which Code 3 has not done. But FedSig is the first "big-name" lightbar manufacturer to introduce rotating LED lights, and I've always been a fan of rotating lights.
Click to expand...

FedSig has been discontinuing LBs too... Streethawk, Vista... Including the Vista SL LED. Low profile is the way to go.


This bar is very interesting. If it is indeed $1200ish area, it'd be nice to have a grand + some lying around just to play with it.


As to Code 3 stuff... while they 'had' the niche in the market for a long time with the MX7000, I think they were behind on the game when LEDs took the market by storm. Their prices are dramatically higher than competitors, and while there's some people like the unsync'd look, a larger slice of people simply don't, including myself. Sorry, honest truth...
 
nerdly_dood said:
I don't think of myself as a "FedSig person" - i don't like the fact that they and Whelen have been discontinuing their halogen lightbars, which Code 3 has not done. But FedSig is the first "big-name" lightbar manufacturer to introduce rotating LED lights, and I've always been a fan of rotating lights.
Click to expand...

I already know that FedSig discontinued their major halogen bars. Whelen has also quit making their Centurion lightbar (which I like a lot, I wish they hadn't quit making it) and their Val-U-Bar (which I've never seen in use)


Also, SirenNet has a page on the Whelen 2010 Liberty Duo already.


http://sirennet.com/wh2010lb.html


The Duo seems to have three colors per lighthead (blue, red, amber) in the rear directional bar, and two (blue, red) for all other lightheads. (The only white LEDs are in the takedown and alley lights)
 
nerdly_dood said:
Also, SirenNet has a page on the Whelen 2010 Liberty Duo already.
http://sirennet.com/wh2010lb.html


The Duo seems to have three colors per lighthead (blue, red, amber) in the rear directional bar, and two (blue, red) for all other lightheads. (The only white LEDs are in the takedown and alley lights)
Click to expand...

False. 2 colors per lighthead in any color arrangement. White is also possible, had blue/white and red/white front corners on a demo charger my dept tried out for a week.
 
rwo978 said:
[
This bar is very interesting. If it is indeed $1200ish area, it'd be nice to have a grand + some lying around just to play with it.
Click to expand...

Forget about the $1200 thing. I'm almost certain it'll be significantly more than that. However, pricing hasn't been set yet so who knows what's going to happen. Based on some conversations with FS, I get no indication that it'll be anywhere close to $1200. My gut feeling is that it'll be twice that.
 
rwo978 said:
False. 2 colors per lighthead in any color arrangement. White is also possible, had blue/white and red/white front corners on a demo charger my dept tried out for a week.
Click to expand...
I saw Sirennet's video which showed the front side of the lightbar in all-red and all-blue, so I figured the rear would have red and blue like that in addition to the amber in the traffic advisor. But still, any multicolor arrangement is better than normal LEDs.
 
The 2010 Liberty uses double populated modules. A standard inboard module would have six led diodes, all the same color. To achieve dual colors they add six more led diodes. The fedsig uses one diode to achieve the multiple colors, I have head up to four (amber, blue, red & white). There has been no pricing released yet, but if a standard legend lists for over $2000 you can rest assured that a newer technology is probable going to cost more.
 
Stendec said:
This pricing is insanity. I'd kill to see a commonly adjusted price schedule for the average setups in the 70s through today, and also as a percentage of fleet costs. Granted there have been huge leaps in technology, but value is a whole different story. I don't have the balls to propose putting 2k worth of lights on any of our fleet, particularly when we can hardly afford gas, training ammo, and half the guys need remedial report writing training.

Companies need to ratchet these prices down bigtime. 20 years ago they might have gotten away with it, 'cause all the cars had were lights, siren, a radio and maybe radar. But now we add in more expensive radio setups, data systems, video systems, LIDAR, LPR, soon the technology costs more than the vehicle it's mounted in, and sure enough, a jail trustee will mess it up. I want mobile FLIR/thermal units on the road in the worst way, and if that means bolting a pair of FS100s on a generic crossbar instead of a couple thousand bucks worth of LEDs, i'm all over it.


I'm as much of a gear queer as the next guy, but stop the madness.
Click to expand...

What madness?


It all depends on what your departments view is on warning lights and officer safety. $2000 for warning lights is too much? There are many, many, many departments regardless of fleet size that put upwards of $4,000 per car and still mount all the other equipment you listed. Its well documented that a car properly outfitted with visual warning products has been proven to reduce the risk of officer line of duty deaths and serious injury on well populated roadways. There is certainly nothing wrong with your opinion at all (and of course your departments budget plays a huge part in your decision making) but IMHO a FLIR/Thermal unit doesnt do anyone any good if the officer using it is going to get struck by a car performing a simple traffic stop because his vehicle was not properly equipped.
 
led0987 said:
It all depends on what your departments view is on warning lights and officer safety. $2000 for warning lights is too much? There are many, many, many departments regardless of fleet size that put upwards of $4,000 per car and still mount all the other equipment you listed. Its well documented that a car properly outfitted with visual warning products has been proven to reduce the risk of officer line of duty deaths and serious injury on well populated roadways.
Click to expand...

There is certainly such a thing as too many lights. It seems to be a fad lately to put as many lights on a car as possible. Believe me, all you really need is a single roof-mounted rotator or strobe lightbar with red and blue lights facing forward and to the side, and blue and amber to the back.


- Red and amber are easily visible at all hours of the day to people who aren't colorblind


- Red lights mean "stop" - that's why traffic lights and cars' brake lights are red.


- Amber lights mean "caution"


- Blue lights can be instantly and easily seen to colorblind people at all hours of the day, despite being less visible in the daytime than red or amber to people who aren't colorblind


- Blue lights are usually taken to mean "police" and carry more of a sense of urgency


With that lighting setup you make the vehicle as visible as it needs to be, and not so visible that drivers can't see anything else.
 
I think the 4 color bar is a great idea, total takedown tight or total backup light, alley lights when you need them, r/b during code responses, you can even make it amber only to the rear when stopped on a divided highway to limit rubbernecking.


If they're smart they'll get this technology out soon in a minibar, some agencies have already seen the benefit in gas mileage and cost to using a roof minibar as compared to full size. Plus, all those folks who use their truck for landscaping or whatever but also respond as vollies can use the same light for all of their stuff, as well as having white worklights. Neat concept.
 
nerdly_dood said:
I saw Sirennet's video which showed the front side of the lightbar in all-red and all-blue, so I figured the rear would have red and blue like that in addition to the amber in the traffic advisor. But still, any multicolor arrangement is better than normal LEDs.[/quote:19fzprgb]


All 8 front facing modules are dual color red/blue. The rear corners are dual color red/blue as well. Of the 6 rear modules that are used for the traffic arrow, the 3 driver side modules are dual color red/amber. The 3 passenger side modules are dual color blue/amber. Three colors total to the rear, but only two for each half.
Click to expand...
 
Yesterday I had the chance to experience this bar on a PSP Car. They have the bar set up within the vehicle to flash 3 separate patterns. The first is ALL Red, followed by ALL Blue, followed by split then back to solids.(Front and Back of bar) The second is Alternating colors(red and blue) throughout the entire bar. The Third is same as first except the arrow stick is activated in the back, which can also be activated alone, as well as takedowns/alleys.


Now I am a Whelen distributer through my job, and well as i LOVE whelen products.


However, this has the be the brightest bar I have seen to date. The bar was completely blinding. The mounts in my opinion are way too big and take away from the low profile design, as well as they make a hum/whistle at highway speeds. (could also be the fact the bar goes from triangle right into a 90 for the takedowns to be effective) The takedowns/alleys are extremely bright but seem to wash out at distance (as most LED TD/Alley lights do). The bar has GREAT off axis lighting as well as great punch at distance and up close. Even though the bar is a triangle, at distance it appears as a straight bar, both when on and off. (was very confused as to what it was first time it went by haha)


Another thing i need to point out is that there are several FS stickers on this bar that state it is a PRE-production model and used for testing purposes only and the production model may differ in appearance and performance. (PSP only has these bars for 90 days then they go back to old bars)


IMHO from what I have seen, I am now considering this bar over a Liberty Duo. (Which I also experienced on a PSP car, as well as work, and I did not look at the LED's themselves) But in response to earlier posts, the back of the bar has Red, Blue, AND Amber ALL the way across the back, not just half the bar.
 
Ya I'm curious how much this bar is going to be in the end. Especially when you price compare it to the whelen,etc its prob most likely gonna well be over 2 grand. Don't get me wrong dual color technology is cool but its all in what you need for warning and how much you are willing to spend.
 
led0987 said:
Its well documented that a car properly outfitted with visual warning products has been proven to reduce the risk of officer line of duty deaths and serious injury on well populated roadways.
Click to expand...

No, there isn't. There's the FHP report and one from Texas, but other than that there has been minimal research, and even then it isn't "research" so much as some fast and dirty pseudo-experimentation. There is no definition of what constitutes "properly outfitted." Most evidence is anecdotal, and even then you have the "moth to the flame" theory that stopped, lit-up cars distract and draw drivers into them.


You also took my statement out of context. You'd prefer that the training ammo budget or body armor line item go to lights instead?
 
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