NFPA 1901 & Upgrading lighting on an older piece of apparatus

wolfman

Member
I'm hoping I can get an answer to this question regarding NFPA 1901 current 2009 Edition and it's interpretation on this topic.


I have a customer that would like me to upgrade all of the lighting on their Class A pumper. They currently have a halogen/strobe setup on the truck, and would like to go all LED. I will be replacing all current strobe and or halogen warning lights with like-product Whelen LEDs (e.g. 700 series strobes with 700 series Super LEDs or M7s, halogen rear upper rotators with LED mini bars, etc). I believe the apparatus has enough warning in it's current state to meet the current NFPA guidelines, however the vehicle does not have park-kill for any clear front warning. Do I need to install a park-kill circuit to cut all clear warning to the front, or could I accomplish this with a separate switch? Must the upfit meet the current NFPA guidelines, or is it grandfathered in from the NFPA guidelines when it was built (it is a 1995 E-One build).


Before I quote this, I just want to make sure I'm covering all of my bases.


Thanks in advance,


wolfman
 

Outsider

Member
The blocking right-of-way mode must be done automatically. A seperate switch would not be compliant to current standards. Also there is a lot more that makes a warning system compliant to 1901 than just the park-kill. One thing that many Pre-1901 trucks used was split red/clear lights down the sides. Activating park and truning the white side off, might leave you with not enough light from the red side only to be compliant when stopped. So, if you have red/clear it would be best to trade them out for red. Technically, however if this truck went into service before NFPA-1901 in 1996 you will be pretty much compliant with whatever you do, because yes, you are "grandfathered" in so to speak.
 

factorone33

Member
Outsider said:
The blocking right-of-way mode must be done automatically. A seperate switch would not be compliant to current standards. Also there is a lot more that makes a warning system compliant to 1901 than just the park-kill. One thing that many Pre-1901 trucks used was split red/clear lights down the sides. Activating park and truning the white side off, might leave you with not enough light from the red side only to be compliant when stopped. So, if you have red/clear it would be best to trade them out for red. Technically, however if this truck went into service before NFPA-1901 in 1996 you will be pretty much compliant with whatever you do, because yes, you are "grandfathered" in so to speak.
Everything that he said. NFPA 1901 is pretty loose in some areas, and realistically is pretty easy to beat. The upgrades you're talking about are likely more than enough (especially if you upgrade the front sections to what I'm guessing will be Freedom minibars and a 72" bar).


900 Series (or M9s) on the back will do you well, and some L31s (or B6LEDs) would be good replacements for the beacons on the back.
 

NJEMT

Member
The fire dept in my town just removed a candycane aero and two candycane minis off of an early 90's truck and replaced it with a red/wihite liberty and two mini freedoms and the white lights on the liberty and freedoms do not go off when parked. so as others have said you will be fine leaving the white on.
 

CenTexPSE

New Member
Just remember, the NFPA guidelines are just that, ''guidelines''. They give you guidence, but are not required by law.
 
OP
OP
W

wolfman

Member
Thank you all for your advice. I'm being asked to assist in the design and upgrade, so I want to be knowledgeable enough on the standard to give them my input on it. The customer will make the final decision, but it's more of a CYA thing as it will be put on the quote/invoice whatever they decide.


Initial customer thoughts were replacement of 72" MX + two Code 3 XL bars with 62" NFPA Justice + added LEDs and two 22" mini Justices on the front cab, two 22" mini Justices on the rear top posts replacing two halogen rotators, M7 split red-clear replacing 700 series split strobes on the sides, 600 series Super LEDs red/clear on front replacing halogen flashers, 600 series Super LEDs replacing split red/clear strobes on rear lower, and replacing rear halogen amber Signalmaster with LED version. There will be an upgrade of STT halogens to 600 Series LEDs also. Most if not all of the lighting will be a significant upgrade to what they have currently.


Again, thanks for the input!


wolfman
 

Zapp Brannigan

Gold Supporter
CenTexPSE said:
Just remember, the NFPA guidelines are just that, ''guidelines''. They give you guidence, but are not required by law.
Yea, but in this day and age who is willing to risk "defying" these type things. Tell the Fire Chief from Lairdsville, NY that NFPA is only "guidelines". (Re: NFPA 1403).


Guidelines, "industry accepted standards", NFPA "recommendations" whatever you want to call them, they do hold some weight.


Charges Filed in LODDs | Lairdsville | Charleston | FIRE CHIEF


Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation Report F2001-38 | CDC/NIOSH


http://www.in.gov/dhs/files/nfpa1403.pdf


Still have the same outlook on those "guidelines"?
 

FreshDave04

Suspended
NFPA guidelines aren't law - granted. But, you can bet that in a civil suit, defense lawyers would eat up a departments "lack of NFPA compliance" if it ever came down to it.... and they'd win.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CenTexPSE

New Member
I never said that they shouldn't be totally disreguarded. The fact is that the guidelines are not law, but if the governing body has chosen to adopt NFPA compliance standards then they have to maintain those standards. If your agency can afford that, i am all for it. Truth be told, in the current economic state, with budget cuts and deficits, many departments can't comply 100 percent. They just can't afford it. And sorry to the OP, sorry for hi.lacking your thread. This was not my intentions. In response to your question, i say go for it if they have the funds! But as someone said, an all red setup would a just as effective imo.
 

dblocal51

Junior Member
My department lost 3 members, and 3 small children in a fatal fire july 4 2002. Can i tell you that peosha,nfpa, and all other agencies came down and made recommadations. Guess what the politicans said unless it is a law and it is mandadated, we do not have to follow its only a recomendation!
 

Zapp Brannigan

Gold Supporter
dblocal51 said:
My department lost 3 members, and 3 small children in a fatal fire july 4 2002. Can i tell you that peosha,nfpa, and all other agencies came down and made recommadations. Guess what the politicans said unless it is a law and it is mandadated, we do not have to follow its only a recomendation!
To the OP, sorry I hijacked the thread, but I think the topic mentioned is one worthy of a good discussion. Wouldn't mind if a Mod split those posts into a new topic...
 

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