Ohio DOT going green ... lights that is

PJD642

New Member
May 20, 2010
1,543
east of Cleveland
I saw that in news this morning. OK, if green shows up better, fine. But keep amber since that's what means "Caution".


And are there really *that* many idiots running into ODOT snowplows?
 

ccsd157

Member
Dec 28, 2010
43
New Bern, NC
hmmm... I am not familier with any formal research showing that green is better visable to drivers than amber....or for that matter any other color. I don't think its a good idea. Besides green has already been designated as the color to be used for designating a command post. Even if Ohio changes their laws, they still have to follow guidelines by OSHA and other regulatory agencies.


just my 2 cents.
 

badge22

Member
Aug 14, 2010
934
MI, United States
I've been resistant to green for a while. But, I will admit, when used with amber it does produce a more attention getting signal. Perhaps because it is an uncommon combination.
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
I wouldn't. Amber is the best/easiest visible color in the spectrum during all types of weather conditions.


OTH, get rid of that horrible split flash pattern on the L32s, move the PAR36s to the rear of the box, and sync your system.... IE, fix what you got, and you should be golden. That's a big LED beacon that gives off a good amount of light if flashed completely on/off. Here we are again with people thinking 'split' patterns are 'cool'. Yeah, they look that way, but are horrible for effectiveness.


ND DOT plows have 2 L32s on the cab and 2 or 4 700 LEDs (strobe on a couple of the older trucks) in amber (and white in the case of 4) on the rear. Then entire system is sync'd with all the amber flashing together against the white on sigalert. There's also a couple with the L32s flashing individually on sigalert non-sync'd with the rears 700s in a X-pattern. Either way, I think the layout is really effective and we've still had 14+ accidents this winter so far. The total for the season is apparently close to that. I wouldn't go dumping a lot of money to fix something that is more-likely-than-not driver error on the person hitting the plow. Sounds like it's just a problem plaguing a lot of areas this year. How about dealing with the problem of driver inattentiveness instead??
 

MATT3045

Member
May 23, 2010
269
Akron Ohio area
ccsd157 said:
hmmm... I am not familier with any formal research showing that green is better visable to drivers than amber....or for that matter any other color. I don't think its a good idea. Besides green has already been designated as the color to be used for designating a command post. Even if Ohio changes their laws, they still have to follow guidelines by OSHA and other regulatory agencies.

Ohio does NOT have to follow OSHA, public entities are not governed by them in Ohio. They may have to follow other regulations.


I know green is for command posts, but does that mean that nothing else can or should use it? That is not aimed at this poster, just in general. I do not think ODOT should get rid of all their amber, but maybe do half and half. I think a mix of colors always helps things be seen better.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,974
Northwest Ohio

03crownvic

Member
May 8, 2010
1,033
Louisiana
The general public everywhere has become complacent in giving any vehicle using amber lighting the courtesy it needs in yielding, using due caution, etc. because of the many various types of vehicles that use amber that are non emergency related, and yes, that includes whackers. However, if Ohio decides to go with green on their plows, they need to keep some amber mixed with it, mostly for the additional color it would provide but also for the long distance that amber can be seen. They would also need to educate the public with a media blitz about the type of vehicle using this new and unfamiliar two color setup. On a similar note, Colorado uses blue and amber together on snow plows and that seems to be fairly effective, although the blue is pretty dim in daylight. Texas also uses blue and amber together on many of their DOT vehicles, but IMO, blue should not be used on anything that isn't a law enforcement, fire response, or EMS vehicle.
 

Jman423

Administrator
Sep 10, 2010
3,391
United States
From watching that video, I think the biggest problem is what they are currently using, and how it is setup. Buying any old crappy amber light and just hooking power to it is not going to get the job done... but higher quality, brighter, sync'able systems hooked up properly will provide more than enough "eye catching" power in my opinion, no matter what color it is.
 

chfdbigbad

Member
May 22, 2010
265
Cincinnati, OH
Green in ohio is already used for security. I think they should use bigger light heads (700 series or bigger), sync the lights, and slow down the patterns. the problem in not that people cant see the plows, its they just cant freaking drive to begin with. add snow and ice, and the crappy driving causes accidents, the plows just happend to be in the path of the crashing cars
 

FireEMSPolice

Member
May 21, 2010
3,429
Ohio
Green in Ohio is for "Command" in a emergency service (typically fire dept.) setting and Private Security.


I dont think that they need the state law changed if the used green WITH amber.


The other thing is, the plow trucks are white. That makes NO sense when they are pushing snow.


They need to use reflective chevrons or material, maybe add more amber (traffic advisor perhaps) lighting, paint the vehicles a different color.


I know you can not fix every stupid driver out there. I drive VERY cautiously around the plows, give them room to work, and show them respect on the road. I know they work long hours for everyones benefit.
 

dustymedic

Member
May 21, 2010
633
Columbus,OH

Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,587
Shelbyville, TN
2 threads 1 in ot 1 in light discussion
 

dustymedic

Member
May 21, 2010
633
Columbus,OH
There is no regulation of green lights in Ohio, use by security or command posts is not written out anywhere. I think the biggest thing ODOT could do is stop buying snow plows painted white. For years all ODOT trucks were yellow, they changed to white to save money. And about the same time, the City of Columbus started switching from white to yellow. The CoC claimed at the time that having yellow trucks would save on insurance. I think lime green & black chevrons on the back would make the trucks more visible in snow...
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,974
Northwest Ohio
rwo978 said:
I wouldn't. Amber is the best/easiest visible color in the spectrum during all types of weather conditions.

OTH, get rid of that horrible split flash pattern on the L32s, move the PAR36s to the rear of the box, and sync your system.... IE, fix what you got, and you should be golden. That's a big LED beacon that gives off a good amount of light if flashed completely on/off. Here we are again with people thinking 'split' patterns are 'cool'. Yeah, they look that way, but are horrible for effectiveness.


ND DOT plows have 2 L32s on the cab and 2 or 4 700 LEDs (strobe on a couple of the older trucks) in amber (and white in the case of 4) on the rear. Then entire system is sync'd with all the amber flashing together against the white on sigalert. There's also a couple with the L32s flashing individually on sigalert non-sync'd with the rears 700s in a X-pattern. Either way, I think the layout is really effective and we've still had 14+ accidents this winter so far. The total for the season is apparently close to that. I wouldn't go dumping a lot of money to fix something that is more-likely-than-not driver error on the person hitting the plow. Sounds like it's just a problem plaguing a lot of areas this year. How about dealing with the problem of driver inattentiveness instead??

+1


If what they had was flashed slowly and in large chucks it would work a lot better. Adding green will be attention getting for a few months because people aren't used to it. After that the effect will wear off.


Fix your "cool" split flash fail before adding more colors ODOT...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SBFD-E-9

Member
May 24, 2010
1,359
Washington IL
The other thing I've noticed, is that since LEDs don't produce any heat the ice/snow builds up and blocks a lot of light that way also. I know the IDOT trucks here that have strobes show up better than the ones with LEDs. Maybe switching to halogen or strobes would improve their visibility also. I do think they should stick with amber instead of green.


Dan
 

theolog

Member
Dec 27, 2010
731
North Carolina
PJD642 said:
And are there really *that* many idiots running into ODOT snowplows?

Considering how many emergency vehicles get struck, and how many first responders get run over or killed each year, I bet DOT vehicles get wrecked into fairly frequently. For them specifically, the one article says 63 this year alone.
 

Richard P

Member
May 23, 2010
1,031
Sudbury, On
SireLite said:
Do the public in Ohio know that green is a command colour?

I was thinking that same thing. Green is Command here also, theres a very small whelen green strobe, but for how often its used, is it really that important? Ive NEVER seen green command used. Green is also dedicated to VFF here, its more common than command, No one here knows green is command, and half the population doesnt even know its also VFF.


There was talks about switching it all here, green for plows, blue for VFF, red/blue for police (recently switchs from red/red). Blue is no longer snow plow, unless accompanied by amber, and city contracted. Green Will definately stand out among the red tail lights and white headlights, I think its a better color for plow, just like blue was until police switched.


I mean seriously, theres probably 1 command beacon per city, so i think green can be shared, the rest of the blinkies on the command should be identification enough.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,974
Northwest Ohio
If it were up to me, I'd have them use halogen flashers and sealed beam rotators..... plenty bright and melts the snow. The service trucks on the turnpike used to have par 46 can lights and they showed up great. And a sealed beam rotating beacon and you're set.
 

Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
JohnMarcson said:
If it were up to me, I'd have them use halogen flashers and sealed beam rotators..... plenty bright and melts the snow. The service trucks on the turnpike used to have par 46 can lights and they showed up great. And a sealed beam rotating beacon and you're set.
+1


Sometimes older technology beats the new stuff. Not often, but this is sure one of those times.
 
May 22, 2010
787
Columbiana County, Ohio
MATT3045 said:
Ohio does NOT have to follow OSHA, public entities are not governed by them in Ohio. They may have to follow other regulations.

I know green is for command posts, but does that mean that nothing else can or should use it? That is not aimed at this poster, just in general. I do not think ODOT should get rid of all their amber, but maybe do half and half. I think a mix of colors always helps things be seen better.

OSHA is everywhere brother
 

MATT3045

Member
May 23, 2010
269
Akron Ohio area
ark_firefighter said:
OSHA is everywhere brother

I have seen them turned away/told to leave scenes involving public sector workers. I have even seen an OSHA worker escorted from a scene in handcuffs for trying to interfere in a trench rescue. I saw it with my own 2 eyes at a trench call out several years ago in my county. Needless to say, that OSHA worker has not been seen by anyone on any scenes since. Many OSHA laws/rules have been adopted in Ohio, but they themselves have no enforcement power in Ohio over a government operation.


Now, a private contractor or private company they can go after, and they will. Just this week in Stark County Ohio, there was a trench collapse with a fatality. OSHA was there because it involved a private company, but OSHA had no powers until the scene was turned over to them after all rescue and recovery operations were complete.


Most OSHA workers are very helpful, and they do have a job to do at scenes, but they can't be a hinderence.
 

Richard P

Member
May 23, 2010
1,031
Sudbury, On
I agree with the old school way. Ours still use and amber and blue par46 either on the top outter corners of the salt/sand (triangular "hopper" shaped) box or top bottom center or both at the bottom close to middle. older trucks have a blue par46 to the front, but most have a blue SWS 400 series rotor, Dominion 2 bulb or grote 2 bulb. the rear also has 2 steady burn red par46s lights mounted to a pole a few feet above the truck facing rear.


Newer trucks have LED 6.5" ovals in amber and blue on either side of the dump box (most are dump trucks style ssand spreaders) a large amber target tech phase 2 at the front with a smaller ecco medium profile blue strobe next to it mounted above the box. them amber LEDs are always more visible.
 

philyumpshus

Member
Jun 20, 2010
1,281
Malone, NY
Steve0625 said:
+1

Sometimes older technology beats the new stuff. Not often, but this is sure one of those times.

NYS DOT switched from two halogen beacons and rear PAR 46s to all LED and the performance of the new setups is terrible. You can't beat a sealed beam beacon in snow.
 

DLuccia

Member
May 21, 2010
675
Greater Waterbury CT
In my honest opinion its not the color of the lights its the color of the trucks. A white truck on a white background of snow doesnt work.DOT around here is Orange and New york is Yellow and i never hear of many accidents involving their trucks in the snow
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,974
Northwest Ohio
DLuccia said:
In my honest opinion its not the color of the lights its the color of the trucks. A white truck on a white background of snow doesnt work.DOT around here is Orange and New york is Yellow and i never hear of many accidents involving their trucks in the snow


Good point!


I see the orange trucks with just 100 series rotators in PA much better....
 

tnems7

Member
May 21, 2010
407
USA Nashville Tennessee
Too many of you are confusing OSHA with other safety requirements set by convention in agreement with federal funding agencies, like the U.S. Department of Justice law enforcement grants or Homeland Security funds (i.e. for police cars with lightbars). Probably the only warning lights specified in OSHA regulations are those for fork lifts, tow motors, and vehicles at industrial plants. Most emergency vehicle lighting requirements are contained within state laws.


Standards for lighting are accepted by each state and most do define colors for various authorized emergency and highway maintenance vehicles. Very few Federal agencies other than U.S. DOT set requirements for lighting, and U.S. Dept. of Transportation requirements for automotive and truck lighting are in the Code of Federal Regulations (cited under FMVSS- Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards). (One exception - The FAA sets standards for vehicle lighting for vehicles on the flight line on airport premises.) And, there are studies about the relative effectiveness of various lamps and colors of warning beacons. However, Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and other standards setting agencies (NFPA, ANSI) have significant fees to obtain the documentation.


NPS Ranger and I have been trying to tell members that the requirements and recommendations for reflective traffic vests, chevron markings, traffic cones, and to some degree, amber warning lights for highway maintenance vehicles are in the Uniform Methods for Traffic Control Devices, a document with input from several national organizations and state representatives.


Also, the United States Coast Guard sets requirements for boats and ships on navigable sea going vessels, and boats on coastal and in-land waterways
 

biggusjmanus

Member
May 24, 2010
25
ON
Further to Richard's post, the blue LED on the plows in Ontario are utterly useless in the daylight. I complain that blue can only be seen on police cars in bright sun at a couple of hundred yards. On plows, the economy blue LEDs can only be seen from about fifty yards. The amber works well at all times. The blue is tradition, from when blue only meant snow removal.


The best highway plow innovation I have seen is the steady-burn red lights at the rear, which are placed high and wide and have the same effect as the European rear fog lights, allowing overtaking traffic to judge the speed and distance of and to the plows. Approaching plows in heavy snow fall, it is always the first thing I see. The amber and blue then identify it as a plow/salter. If I could recommend any one thing, it would be the steady-burn red lights, after that, the green would probably work well as it is distinct.
 

Lt.214

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
598
Southwest Ohio USA
Here is the link to ODOT's article from 12/29/10 including pictures of a demo truck with amber and green LED's along side of a standard truck.


http://www.dot.state.oh.us/news/Pages/ODOTseeksGreenLanternHelptoProtectSnowplows.aspx


Just my thoughts: go back to painting the trucks Bright Yellow, add RED Lights not GREEN Lights to the rear of the plow truck since they state the plows travel slower than posted limits.


Oh and revoke drivers licenses for all who have rectal cranial inversion since they don't pay attention to ANY flashing lights on vehicles whether they are RED, BLUE ,GREEN or any color for that matter!


Chris
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cam

Member
May 20, 2010
247
MO
Damn get some bigger lightheads on the back, looks like they are using some kind of TIR3 or 4. No reason to use anything smaller then a 500 back there.
 

dmathieu

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 20, 2010
8,784
S.W. New Hampshire, USA
The rotating pattern on the L31s is definitely not the most effective pattern. Not nearly as bright/effective as single or signal alert patterns. I do like the green though.


Dan
 

Forum Statistics

Threads
54,187
Messages
450,564
Members
19,189
Latest member
Jesseclark2448

About Us

  • Since 1997, eLightbars has been the premier venue for all things emergency warning equipment. Discussions, classified listings, pictures, videos, chat, & more! Our staff members strive to keep the forums organized and clutter-free. All of our offerings are free-of-charge with all costs offset by banner advertising. Premium offerings are available to improve your experience.

User Menu

Secure Browsing & Transactions

eLightbars.org uses SSL to secure all traffic between our server and your browsing device. All browsing and transactions within are secured by an SSL Certificate with high-strength encryption.