One fine piece of driving!!

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Station 3

Member
May 21, 2010
3,395
Edinburg Texas
I think this has been posted before but i think its kinda cool this has happend for me i had PD do that while i was responding in my POV to a grass fire once it was pretty sweet.
 
May 21, 2010
1,176
NJ & IA
A cop and I did this once running blocks for an ambulance that had a CPR. I was the 3rd person on the BLS ambulance (volunteer) that day so when the medics joined us at the scene for the call I jumped in their truck. The cop offered his assistance to us.


Now granted when we did it, the ambulance cleared every intersection on its own as a precaution and we did not just jump into the intersection, we waited to make sure people had our attention...
 

CrownVic97

Member
May 21, 2010
3,348
Hazen, ND
That vid never gets old :haha: .
 

FreshDave04

Member
Jun 30, 2010
3,000
Elkhart, IN
We leap frog intersections all the time, in my city. Usually it only occurs if a child, LEO/FF, or LEO/FF's family member needs a signal 10 run to the hospital... but still. Very cool.
 

spike91

Member
Jun 11, 2010
192
New York
That's really cool, have only seen it done once for a CPR on a 19 year old. Some people in the region didn't particularly care for it; but as long as its done safely more power to ya
 

C420sailor

Member
May 23, 2010
502
Virginia, USA
Had three police cars leap-frogging intersections for me a few years back. I was transporting one of their guys who crashed his motorcycle. It was very very impressive.


Gotta be extra careful if your 'escort' doesn't stay in the intersection until you pass through. Most people only expect to see one rig, and will go after the escort leaves the intersection---right into your path.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
kinnelonfire75 said:
A cop and I did this once running blocks for an ambulance that had a CPR. I was the 3rd person on the BLS ambulance (volunteer) that day so when the medics joined us at the scene for the call I jumped in their truck. The cop offered his assistance to us.

Now granted when we did it, the ambulance cleared every intersection on its own as a precaution and we did not just jump into the intersection, we waited to make sure people had our attention...


:rant:


Way to risk the lives of living people for the dead one in the ambulance. I don't even transport medical cardiac arrests lights and siren at all....that's IF I transport them at all..... A medical cardiac arrest really doesn't benifit from getting to the hospital faster. ACLS is ACLS... and being thrown around while doing CPR etc is less than desirable. You save average 30 seconds..... the max saved in a recent study was 1:40 ..... it will make no difference other than to endanger the innocent people who's hearts are still beating.


http://www.medstar911.org/medstar-ems-limits-use-of-lights-and-siren-response


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/Medstar_Flipping_Off_Sirens_for_Cardiac_Arrest_Patients_Dallas-Fort_Worth.html?__source=Watch%20This&autoPlay=true


I'm sorry........there is no safe way to "leapfrog", escorts confuse motorists and driving like that doesn't save any significant amount of time. It's not sweet, it's not cool, it's not good driving... it's stupid, pointless and dangerous.


Think people.... this has no benefits and all risk. :Banghead:
 

FreshDave04

Member
Jun 30, 2010
3,000
Elkhart, IN
JohnMarcson said:
:rant:
Way to risk the lives of living people for the dead one in the ambulance. I don't even transport medical cardiac arrests lights and siren at all....that's IF I transport them at all..... You save maybe 30 seconds max doing this..... it will make no difference other than to endanger innocent people who's hearts are still beating.


I'm sorry........there is no safe way to "leapfrog", escorts confuse motorists and driving like that doesn't save any significant amount of time. It's not sweet, it's not cool, it's not good driving... it's stupid, pointless and dangerous.


Think people.... this has no benefits and all risk. :Banghead:

I respectfully disagree.


If the intersection is clear, the ambulance has no need to pause and can proceed forward without interruption. In a city like mine, where every intersection has a traffic signal, this can mean minutes off of the drive time en route to the hospital (if coming from certain parts of town). If those minutes can mean the life or death of a child or one of my brothers/sisters in law enforcement or the fire service, then I'm going to do what I can to help.
 

Station 3

Member
May 21, 2010
3,395
Edinburg Texas
sbparkcop said:
I respectfully disagree.

If the intersection is clear, the ambulance has no need to pause and can proceed forward without interruption. In a city like mine, where every intersection has a traffic signal, this can mean minutes off of the drive time en route to the hospital (if coming from certain parts of town). If those minutes can mean the life or death of a child or one of my brothers/sisters in law enforcement or the fire service, then I'm going to do what I can to help.


Yup what sbparkcop said. +1
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
sbparkcop said:
I respectfully disagree.

If the intersection is clear, the ambulance has no need to pause and can proceed forward without interruption. In a city like mine, where every intersection has a traffic signal, this can mean minutes off of the drive time en route to the hospital (if coming from certain parts of town). If those minutes can mean the life or death of a child or one of my brothers/sisters in law enforcement or the fire service, then I'm going to do what I can to help.


First of all, THE INTERSECTION IS NOT CLEAR!!! Blocking the intersection doesn't secure it. You still have to stop. So there goes the time you think you are saving. It doesn't matter who is sitting in the intersection, you still have to treat it as a red light and fully stop. Blowing an intersection is blowing an intersection. So right there, the whole argument that it saves time is debunked. Unless you blow the intersection, breaking the law and violating all established guidelines and SOGs I have ever read, you will save absolutely no time.





Second, even if you violate established guidelines and blow these intersections, it doesn't actually take minutes off the drive. It seems like you are saving all sorts of time, but you aren't. Not slowing down or making a complete stop saves 3-5 seconds per instance. Times 10 traffic lights that's 30-50 seconds. In order to shave "minutes" off you would need to blow through 40 traffic lights. Keep in mind that any time savings here is at the expense of breaking the law, and directly disobeying every SOG/SOP I could find in print.


You say it means the difference of a life or death, well it does....but in the opposite way you meant. Driving dangerously increases the chance that you or someone else will be killed.


A 2003 study in St. Petersburg FL found the average time saved by transporting or responding emergent was 33 seconds. A similar study in Syracuse found the average time saved was 43 sec. These are urban areas, not country roads.


I can't believe you guys are actually advocating doing this. Any EVOC class will tell you that you should never pass another emergency vehicle, only use escorts at low speed for official motorcade type duties, don't directly follow other emergency vehicles and stop at all red light intersections regardless of whether another vehicle is there. 4 major points of safe emergency driving (not to mention laws) violated in one action.... yet you guys are claiming this is acceptable and actually believe it saves a significant amount of time.


Riding on the tailboards of the apparatus saves 3 seconds of climbing out of the seat and opening the door. Not wearing a seat belt saves 2 seconds getting out of the truck. Running in w/o a scene size up can save 15 seconds. Not chocking the wheels before pumping can save 5 seconds. Driving out before the garage door is all the way up can save 2 seconds. Looky there, we just saved 27 seconds! And that makes a huge difference right? Are these dangers worth it? It's the same thing you guys are advocating, nominal time savings in exchange for a huge risk.


It's 2011, time to get your heads out of your asses people. Driving like this doesn't save any significant amount of time and increases the chances you or others will be killed and doesn't help in any way. You are public safety professionals, on duty to protect people, not endanger yourself and others.
 

FireEMSPolice

Member
May 21, 2010
3,429
Ohio
sbparkcop said:
I respectfully disagree.

If the intersection is clear, the ambulance has no need to pause and can proceed forward without interruption.

Piss poor advice!


In Ohio, you must operate with "due regard". This means, you can not blow an interesection. You are required to slow down or stop, check the intersection, then proceed through.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
I have closed/locked this thread. I consider this to be advocating negligent, dangerous and illegal activity.... so per site policy it is being locked.


"All activities on and stemming from eLightbars must not violate Federal, State or local Laws. Content posted on elightbars must not detail/describe or advocate violating any local, state, federal or international laws."
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
I sent a link to this thread to firefighterclosecalls.com and Brian Kazmierzak replied telling me he will have an article in Firehouse Magazine in the next few moths detailing the dangers of this outdated procedure.
 
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