Philly Police approval now needed for L&S use.

[dmitry103]

Knock yourself out...went into effect as of yesterday.


Approval Needed to Use Emergency Lights and Sirens | NBC 10 Philadelphia

 

[FireEMSPolice]

Unbelievable!! Maybe they need remedial drivers training? This is so stupid!


Of all those accidents, how many of them were the fault of the emergency vehicle operator? I am going to guess the number is small versus the idiot not paying attention/failing to yield to an EV entering an intersection.

 

[vc859]

I wonder how this system will actually end up working.


Will the officers actually have to ask for permission, or will it be written into policy which calls permission is given for? For example, in the LAPD, the dispatcher (actually the call taker) will say Code 3 incident at the end of the broadcast of the assignment. Other agencies will proceed any call that can be responded to code 3 with either a three beep tone or a warble tone so officers know which calls code 3 is acceptable for

 

[crescentstar69]

A brilliant former administrator attempted this years ago where I worked. All it did was make the coppers drive like maniacs without their equipment on, which was much more dangerous. It was tied into a pursuit policy as well. Copper chasing a car dark at 90 MPH, but hey, he "wasn't in pursuit."


The whole "ask the person in the office" thing is asinine, too. THEY aren't out in traffic, and are most likely civilian anyway.

 

[calebsheltonmed23]

The EMS agency I work for use NAEMD protocols, and Pri. 1 is C3, and everything else is a cold run, period, unless advised otherwise. We can run hot from the scene if we need too though. Apparently, it reduces the whole "it's their emergency so we'll treat it like one" thing. If dispatch thinks it's BS, we run cold basically.

 

[FSEP]

I wounder how this will effect pulling people over...

 

[K9Vic]

One of the local cities here in Fort Worth suburb do the same with the dispatcher or supervisor authorizing code for the police. You will here a call dispatched such as a major accident for example and one unit is allowed to run lights & siren. Many times you will here the unit that was selected by the dispatcher say I am at this location, any unit closer and another unit will say I am closer. So that closer unit is given the code from the dispatcher and the original unit no longer has code. On any call that you do not here the dispatcher say, "X you are authorized code", all units respond with out lights or sirens. Sometimes more units are allowed code, but generally it is one unit unless it is a really major emergency.


I can see the reasons for this with the police, the dispatchers are well trained to know when to go code and there is always a supervisor that at times will shine in and upgrade code on a call if not dispatched. They will always run code on a major accident, fires or serious medical calls. The program seems to be working for the last 6 years I have been listening to this city via the scanner as there have been no bad press that I recall.


This policy has nothing to do with traffic stops, the police can jump to sirens if the person does not stop right away. The Officer can also start to chase without authorization running code and you may here a supervisor say to continue or end the pursuit. The Officers do not have to ask for permission to activate their lights to make a traffic stop.


This does not apply to the fire department, they will always go code unless the dispatcher says not too due to minor calls or callers request.

 

[CrownVic97]

Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey....

 

[EMT-BLS]

 

[timlinson]

This does not apply to the fire department, they will always go code unless the dispatcher says not too due to minor calls or callers request.

Usually, if they don't want lights, it's not an emergency. Whether or not EMS will use lights usually isn't going through your head when you have an emergency and call 911.

 

[delcofirecop]

oh not to mention they can no longer block highways with police cars they must deactivate emergency light once the vehicle they are trying to stop is stopped they have to get approval to chase a suspect on foot also there is now a limit on how many officers can respond lights and sirens to an assist officer call shots fired is no longer a priorty call unless they have a confirmed visible victim. oh and for those thinking the police dispatchers have enough common sense to decide when it's a true emergency phila pd dispatchers are mostly civilian employes with one or two police officer supervisors in the radio room.

 

[CrownVic97]

oh not to mention they can no longer block highways with police cars they must deactivate emergency light once the vehicle they are trying to stop is stopped they have to get approval to chase a suspect on foot also there is now a limit on how many officers can respond lights and sirens to an assist officer call shots fired is no longer a priorty call unless they have a confirmed visible victim. oh and for those thinking the police dispatchers have enough common sense to decide when it's a true emergency phila pd dispatchers are mostly civilian employes with one or two police officer supervisors in the radio room.

Sounds like Philly is gonna burn one of these days, and the city leaders will have no one to blame but themselves....or try to pass the buck.


Again, Commissioner Ramsey is a %#@&*! idiot for allowing this to occur... :hopeless:

 

[delcofirecop]

it's nuts radioreference.com has philly online scanners if anyone wants to listen.

 

[Travelin Man]

Interestingly, the large (800+ sworn) PD in the county in which I work as a career firefighter has had a similar "L/S only with supervisors approval" for a decade or more. It seems strange at first, but it actually works for them.


As for the foot pursuits and other matters, the don't have anything quite as strict as the PPD's.

 

[firefightin6]

That's just plan silly, These people are put in this postion of "Authority" for a reason.......now you want to control when they turn the lights on????? :duh: :weird:

 

[BigWil]

If they are concerned about light and siren use, they really need to revamp the policy...don't make them ask permission, set up guidelines as to when you can respond with lights and siren. I just rewrote our SOPs on them.


Code 1 - routine response, no l&s, used on any call for service that isn't time sensitive or life threatening, respond obeying traffic laws.


Code 2 - lights and siren, not to exceed speed limit by more than 20km/h, used for urgent but not life threatening calls, such as traffic accident without injuries, where vehicles are blocking traffic


Code 3 - lights and siren, drive with due regard, for life threatening calls.


This is an over simplification, but with this in place, the guy in the cruiser decides what level of response they want to use, but they must be able to articulate, by policy, as to why they choose the level they did. That, combined with in-car cameras recording all the time, Philly would be able to deal with the officers who are violating policy, without adding BS to initial call information.

 

[Hoser]

Lima Ohio has been using a similar system since the early 80's. Code 1 just go with the flow. Code 2 Lights and siren as needed. Code 3 Lights and siren urgent.

 

[Phillyrube]

The EMS agency I work for use NAEMD protocols, and Pri. 1 is C3, and everything else is a cold run, period, unless advised otherwise. We can run hot from the scene if we need too though. Apparently, it reduces the whole "it's their emergency so we'll treat it like one" thing. If dispatch thinks it's BS, we run cold basically.

I disagree with the dispatchers telling me or my guys whether to run hot or not. My guys downgrade or upgrade if and how they see fit. Dispatch priority is a guideline only.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

If they are concerned about light and siren use, they really need to revamp the policy...don't make them ask permission, set up guidelines as to when you can respond with lights and siren. I just rewrote our SOPs on them.

Code 1 - routine response, no l&s, used on any call for service that isn't time sensitive or life threatening, respond obeying traffic laws.


Code 2 - lights and siren, not to exceed speed limit by more than 20km/h, used for urgent but not life threatening calls, such as traffic accident without injuries, where vehicles are blocking traffic


Code 3 - lights and siren, drive with due regard, for life threatening calls.


This is an over simplification, but with this in place, the guy in the cruiser decides what level of response they want to use, but they must be able to articulate, by policy, as to why they choose the level they did. That, combined with in-car cameras recording all the time, Philly would be able to deal with the officers who are violating policy, without adding BS to initial call information.

Even simpler, all the agency call types can be catergorized into the guidelines stated above, the call type as determined by the 911 operator or the dispatcher determines the response code.

 

[delcofirecop]

the dispatchers do that now when they send the calls to the mdt's but the commissioner feels officers aren't smart enough to know what codes require lights and sirens so dispatch has to tell them in his mind.

 

[badge22]

I thought Whelen was developing a system that would determine when and how the lights and sirens would be used...this discussion is fruitless... :crazy:

 

[BigWil]

Even simpler, all the agency call types can be catergorized into the guidelines stated above, the call type as determined by the 911 operator or the dispatcher determines the response code.

My dispatchers are not trained well enough to do that. Onus falls on the patrol person to justify the level of response, based on information received.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

My dispatchers are not trained well enough to do that. Onus falls on the patrol person to justify the level of response, based on information received.

You missed the point. Dispatchers don't determine the response code, the call type does, established by agency management.


Parking Dispute- Code 1.


Traffic Accident, Property Damage Only, no complicating factors like blocking an intersection or highway lane- Code 1.


Police Officer Needs Assistance- Code 3. And so on.

 

[julietbravosierra]

Makes you wonder....what side is that police commissioner really on?


This will undoubtedly lead to more responses without use of any lights.


DISCRETION.... IT IS WRITTEN INTO THE JOB OF AN LEO.


Ridiculous.

 

[ff168577]

Phila. Police officer crashes cruiser in South Phila. | 6abc.com. Yup, that policy worked great. Lol.


Woohoo, my 500th post. Lol.

 

[mcpd2025]

Not sure I understand... prior to this Philly officers could decide if they wanted to run lights and sirens and now their is a policy in place advising what type of calls require lights and siren?


If thats the case, that is how my department works. We don't make the decision to run hot, it is dictated by our policy. Too many rookies and idiots would just throw their lights on to respond to a parking complaint... just cause they can.


Personal injury collision, lights and siren


robbery/burglary/domestic/etc in progress, lights and siren


robbery/burglary occurred earlier, code 1


theft/trespass/DUI/alarms, code 1


Obviously their are exceptions to the rule though. If a particular neighborhood has been getting crushed with burglaries an officer can request a code 3 response based upon that info. Also, just because a call is dispatched code 3 doesn't REQUIRE I go lights and siren. If we go to Suzy and Joey Smith's house every Friday night for a domestic fight, I can decide to respond code 1 since its a recurring issue rather than continually risk my life.

 

[patrol530]

FHP activates the lights, the laptop will prompt them to select a reason from a menu.

 

[vc859]

I thought in most agencies burglaries in progress and things like that weren't code 3. They were high priority calls, but not code 3 because it's hard to catch people in the act when they can hear and see you coming

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Uhhh, you shut down when nearing the scene

 

[delcofirecop]

two accidents in two days hmm seems like the mayor and police commissoners policy is really working huh.

 

[crescentstar69]

FHP activates the lights, the laptop will prompt them to select a reason from a menu.

So they have to pay more attention to a computer screen than their driving?

 

[foxtrot5]

So they have to pay more attention to a computer screen than their driving?

I Picture it as a screen with several big buttons on it saying "TRAFFIC STOP" "OFFICER ASSIST" "HIGH PRIORITY DISPATCH" ect. I've never seen the system so I could very well be making all this up, but if it's just 2-3 colums of large buttons on a touch screen and the window and font color/sizes are done properly it would take about 2 seconds to hit the emergency lights switch then a button to justify it.