Power Draw Problem...

TritonBoulder47

TritonBoulder47

Member
May 25, 2010
7,072
Tunkhannock, PA, USA
I'm having a slight problem with my Whelen 9622 Edge... I have the bar wired as per the installation guide from Whelen's site http://www.whelen.com/install/131/13186.pdf But for the past week or 2 my bar had been acting up... Tonight while going to a call it stopped working all together... I open up the hood and find this:


ai64.photobucket.com_albums_h191_tritontim47_Mobile_20Uploads_2011_09_22_21_07_49_631.jpg


ai64.photobucket.com_albums_h191_tritontim47_Mobile_20Uploads_2011_09_22_21_08_23_657.jpg


ai64.photobucket.com_albums_h191_tritontim47_Mobile_20Uploads_2011_09_22_21_09_21_777.jpg


And this is the second time its happened.. Before I was using standard ATC fuses and an in-line fuse holder. It melted right through, but never blew a fuse, nor did is melt the wire, just the fuse holder. My current set-up is with MAXI fuses and a MAXI in-line fuse. It's just the power for the strobe cable that doing it. I'm completely at a loss about this... Its not blowing the fuse, just melting the in-line fuse holder...


Any suggestions would be very helpful, as my lightbar is currently out of service.
 
localhero800 said:
It would seem to me that the bar is trying to pull too much power. What Amp Fuse was in the holder?
Click to expand...

Fused @ 30A as per the whelen instllation guide...

Mobile Fleet said:
that's usually a sign of a bad ground. It the ground going strait to the battery?
Click to expand...

Yep, both grounds are straight to the battery... Would changing it to a chasis location be better...?
 
Write down all of the options that your bar has, and how much current they draw. If I remember correctly, you have the duplex bar, which could draw close to 30 amps, I dont know what you use on it, but it could be a start right? Seems like a really strange problem... but atleast you didnt have a fire
 
theroofable said:
Write down all of the options that your bar has, and how much current they draw. If I remember correctly, you have the duplex bar, which could draw close to 30 amps, I dont know what you use on it, but it could be a start right? Seems like a really strange problem... but atleast you didnt have a fire
Click to expand...

The bar has 2 power and 2 ground cables... 1 pair is dedicated for the halogens (Take Downs (4), Alleys (4), Rear Flashers (4), Rear Work Lights (4)), and the other is for the strobes (2 SL6 Power Supplies running 12 strobes)....
 
I suggest ditching the stereo-installer fuse block and wire. I have three or four of those crappy fuse blocks in a box o' crap that I use to show customers how NOT to do things. Each on of them is melted like your picture shows. They just can't hold up to the load. I can't tell if that is a 30A (green) or 60A (blue) Maxi Fuse. That the fuse didn't blow indicates the power draw is not excessive but there is too much resistance in the circuit. Clean that up, eliminate any unneeded splices, ensure your power-feed size is adequate, and then replace that set up with a proper (for emergency equipment) fuse block. Here is a hint...Waytek and DelCity do not catalog anything like what's shown in your picture - there is a reason why.


I use these without problem:


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46011/MAXI%20FUSE%20BLOCK%20HOLDER/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46024/MAXI-FUSE%20HOLDER%20RED%20LEADS/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/45600/ANN%20/%20ANL%20FUSE%20HOLDER/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46008/MIDI%20%28%20AMI%20%29%20FUSE%20HOLDER/


MY FAVORITES:


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46096/POWER%20FUSE%20MODULE%20-%20J%20CASE/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46095/POWER%20RELAY%20MODULE%20-%20STUDS/


Good luck. I stay away from anything in clear plastic because clear plastic generally has a lower melting point, less UV resistance, and is more brittle.
 
C2Installs said:
I suggest ditching the stereo-installer fuse block and wire. I have three or four of those crappy fuse blocks in a box o' crap that I use to show customers how NOT to do things. Each on of them is melted like your picture shows. They just can't hold up to the load. I can't tell if that is a 30A (green) or 60A (blue) Maxi Fuse. That the fuse didn't blow indicates the power draw is not excessive but there is too much resistance in the circuit. Clean that up, eliminate any unneeded splices, ensure your power-feed size is adequate, and then replace that set up with a proper (for emergency equipment) fuse block. Here is a hint...Waytek and DelCity do not catalog anything like what's shown in your picture - there is a reason why.

I use these without problem:


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46011/MAXI FUSE BLOCK HOLDER/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46024/MAXI-FUSE HOLDER RED LEADS/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/45600/ANN / ANL FUSE HOLDER/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46008/MIDI ( AMI ) FUSE HOLDER/


MY FAVORITES:


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46096/POWER FUSE MODULE - J CASE/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46095/POWER RELAY MODULE - STUDS/


Good luck. I stay away from anything in clear plastic because clear plastic generally has a lower melting point, less UV resistance, and is more brittle.
Click to expand...
+1 I love the Jcase fuse modules. Currently have one on my distribution board :D Almost a year with no problems!
 
C2Installs said:
I suggest ditching the stereo-installer fuse block and wire. I have three or four of those crappy fuse blocks in a box o' crap that I use to show customers how NOT to do things. Each on of them is melted like your picture shows. They just can't hold up to the load. I can't tell if that is a 30A (green) or 60A (blue) Maxi Fuse. That the fuse didn't blow indicates the power draw is not excessive but there is too much resistance in the circuit. Clean that up, eliminate any unneeded splices, ensure your power-feed size is adequate, and then replace that set up with a proper (for emergency equipment) fuse block. Here is a hint...Waytek and DelCity do not catalog anything like what's shown in your picture - there is a reason why.

I use these without problem:


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46011/MAXI FUSE BLOCK HOLDER/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46024/MAXI-FUSE HOLDER RED LEADS/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/45600/ANN / ANL FUSE HOLDER/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46008/MIDI ( AMI ) FUSE HOLDER/


MY FAVORITES:


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46096/POWER FUSE MODULE - J CASE/


http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46095/POWER RELAY MODULE - STUDS/


Good luck. I stay away from anything in clear plastic because clear plastic generally has a lower melting point, less UV resistance, and is more brittle.
Click to expand...


Thanks bro... I'll try one of those herre soo when I do my re-wire of my system. All my wires are the size they need to be. I believe they are 10G and the only splice is where I had to extend the power wires to reach my battery. I was using a fuse holder similar to this http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46024/MAXI-FUSE HOLDER RED LEADS/ , but it was for the standard ATC fuse and it melted as well... And yes, they are 30A MAXIs... But I must say, those J-Cases look sweet...
 
I have never seen one of those WayTek Maxi-Fuse holders melted...WOW. If that's the case, there has to be a problem. Is the wire getting that hot? How long is the stuff running? Is your alternator output sufficient? Might be time to do a complete electrical diagnostic under load using a digital tool for that purpose. Our older cruisers had Smart Vector lightbars and we used to routinely see the BUSS 100 amp breaker trigger when the car was idleing with all emergency equipment running along with the AC on hot days. The Circuit breakers are thermally activated and would trigger due to the ambient heat and the load and the fact that the charging system couldn't keep up. I can't say what particularly is wrong with your install, but a serious look is needed and you need to consider a lower-amp draw set-up. Possibly replace the halogen lamps with LED? Either way, your fuse block melting is a strong indicator of a problem. While I have seen many of the clear plastic ones fail and would not be surprised by it, I am alarmed that the other type, with 6g wire and a 60A continuous rating, would fail. Not good.
 
My alternator could be weak... It's only the stock 105A alt... But that will be getting replaced once I have the extra funds to do it... I've also been thinking of a lightbar change as well... Guess i gotta save up some cash... LoL
 
TritonBoulder47 said:
My alternator could be weak... It's only the stock 105A alt... But that will be getting replaced once I have the extra funds to do it... I've also been thinking of a lightbar change as well... Guess i gotta save up some cash... LoL
Click to expand...




GM has a 140a STOCK alt for the 02-05 style trucks. It was a direct fit for my 1997 Chevy Suburban. It was only 112.00 at autozone with l;ifetime warranty.
 
theroofable said:
Stock yes, but you have to program it for your computer to get the full power from it. Atleast thats how it works for my jeep.
Click to expand...

Thats because you have a Chrysler Product... They are difficult like that...


Well I think I know what the problem is... I'm thinking the power wire is the wrong size... So i got some new wire and some new MAXI in-line fuse holders... I'l gonna tackle this tomorrow morning... I'll let ya'll know what I find...
 
TritonBoulder47 said:
Thats because you have a Chrysler Product... They are difficult like that...
:dielaugh:Figures:bonk:


Well I think I know what the problem is... I'm thinking the power wire is the wrong size... So i got some new wire and some new MAXI in-line fuse holders... I'l gonna tackle this tomorrow morning... I'll let ya'll know what I find...
Click to expand...
What size were you using? Hope it fixes your problem! Maybe its time for that freedom! :D
 
Well I spent the moring doing a quick re-wire on the main power cables for the bar... Aparently when I wired the extentions, I grabbed what I thought was 10G, but it turned out to be 12G... After tracing and checking everything else, I decided that this was ultimately the problem... So I got some new 10G wire, plus new MAXI in-line firs holder with 10G leads and new fuses and got to work... Luckily there was actually only a little over 7' from the battery to the end of the stock Whelen cable... The real shitty part was the way I wrapped the wires when I installed the bar 3+ years ago... All 7 feet of exstention was wrapped in electrical tape... (I know, I know... My bad...) But when I reinstalled it all I used wire loom... Now its all back together and working again... The next time I get a call I'll see if I remember to check if there is any excess heat at the fuse... Hopefully I'm good to go...

theroofable said:
What size were you using? Hope it fixes your problem! Maybe its time for that freedom! :D
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm definitely still thinking about it... LoL
 
After installing air ride systems and audio/video/navigation systems for quite a few years I have a tendancy to always use larger gauge wire 2/4/6 and sometimes 8 guage, the more strands the better.
 
MEVS06 said:
After installing air ride systems and audio/video/navigation systems for quite a few years I have a tendancy to always use larger gauge wire 2/4/6 and sometimes 8 guage, the more strands the better.
Click to expand...

massfirefighter said:
I would have gone with a #8.
Click to expand...

Like I said, when I originally wired it, I grabbed a spool that was labeled as 10G, but it wasn't... This (probably) would have never happened in the first place had 10G been on the spool that I used...
 
There's some unanswered questions that I see based on the pictures and the following posts...


Is it really a 30a Maxi fuse? It looks like an ATO/ATC fuse, especially compared with your thumb. Keep in mind that it's what's the pictures are telling me. Also in your case, upgrading the wire is NOT, (yes, I said NOT) going to solve the problem. Here's why, if the wire is the culprit, you would have seen evidence of physical distortion, browning, melting along the wire. Instead, it's the contact point, nothing else. Anytime there's a high resistance, the energy is going there and the only way out is by heat. The look of it is there's an ATO fuse in a Maxi fuse holder that has a small contact point. Anytime you have a smaller contact point, you will always have higher resistance, which equates more heat. Don't forget the wire connection. A weak connection can melt out a good fuse holder with the right size fuse & wire!


Here's my professional tip, avoid using ATO fuses more than 25a on installation jobs, especially when they are habitually at maximum load. I like to max out at 20a and use other form of circuit protection beyond that. ATO/ATC fuses just do not have the large contact area necessary at high amperage despite how well you make the connections.
 
EVModules said:
There's some unanswered questions that I see based on the pictures and the following posts...

Is it really a 30a Maxi fuse? It looks like an ATO/ATC fuse, especially compared with your thumb. Keep in mind that it's what's the pictures are telling me. Also in your case, upgrading the wire is NOT, (yes, I said NOT) going to solve the problem. Here's why, if the wire is the culprit, you would have seen evidence of physical distortion, browning, melting along the wire. Instead, it's the contact point, nothing else. Anytime there's a high resistance, the energy is going there and the only way out is by heat. The look of it is there's an ATO fuse in a Maxi fuse holder that has a small contact point. Anytime you have a smaller contact point, you will always have higher resistance, which equates more heat. Don't forget the wire connection. A weak connection can melt out a good fuse holder with the right size fuse & wire!


Here's my professional tip, avoid using ATO fuses more than 25a on installation jobs, especially when they are habitually at maximum load. I like to max out at 20a and use other form of circuit protection beyond that. ATO/ATC fuses just do not have the large contact area necessary at high amperage despite how well you make the connections.
Click to expand...


Yes, they are in fact MAXI fuses. (I have large fingers) What else would you suggest for fusing my lightbar...? I was looking at the J-Fuses, but no onw locally had them. And a circuit breaker seem a bit much for a lightbar... Possibly ANL fuses...?


And again, it was just the strobe power cable that was doing this...
 
Glad that you have resolved your problem! The j case can be found online for not much money. I can understand though if you want to buy locally. Circuit breakers are expensive but worth the price, however the fuse holders should have no problem handling the current.
 
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