Solenoid for Federal 66-G Siren?

[Deco]

I just bought a 12V Federal 66-G Siren on Ebay. I was able to wire it to a 12v rechargeable battery to test it, but I don't know the first thing about properly wiring sirens.
The seller told me I would have to use a solenoid for it, since it draws a lot of power.
I've read in some topics that Cole Hersee are the way to go for solenoids. So I have two questions for the experts (just about anyone but me!):
Does anyone have an idea which one would be ideal for this siren?
Is there anywhere online where I can learn how to wire it to the siren?
Any help would be immensely appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time.

 

[NPS Ranger]

There are a few old threads on this very topic, if you search you'll find some expert opinions on the ideal solenoid to use, and why.
That being said, for years I ran a model 28 (undressed version of 66) using an auto parts store starter solenoid with no problems whatsoever, it outlasted the car it was installed in.

 

[Deco]

Thanks for your help! Much appreciated! I will try to find one of the threads!

 

[MtnMan]

Something like this: https://www.delcity.net/store/Insulated-Continuous-Solenoids/p_743392.h_817794

Continuous duty, 100 A should do it.

 

[Deco]

Thanks for your help, MthMan!

 

[shues]

Something like this: https://www.delcity.net/store/Insulated-Continuous-Solenoids/p_743392.h_817794

Continuous duty, 100 A should do it.

I used to suggest something similar, but then I was corrected (twice!) by someone far more knowledgeable than I will ever be. Please have a read:

Guys be careful on these "continuous duty solenoids/relays" for mechanical siren use. Most have contacts rated at only 85 amps on make. Starter intermittent relays have contacts rated at 750 amps on make. You could probably get by with a continuous duty relay with the Model 28 but I sure would not use one on a larger siren such as a Q which can pull 200+ amps on startup unless the contacts are rated for at least 200 amps. Pulling 750 amps thru a relays contacts can only be done for a short time before a cool off period but pulling 100 amps thru the same relay you do not have much to worry about. You can look at the specs of the various Cole Hersee relays here: http://www.colehersee.com/catalog_top/index.htm

In context: http://elightbars.org/forums/threads/federal-model-28-wiring-help-please.3143/

I have to respectively disagree with your statement. A continuous duty solenoid especially, one rated at 85 amps, is not made to make and break every 20-30 seconds with a 100- 200+ amp load (200+ inrush current), the contacts will not withstand the arcing after a while. A starter solenoid contacts are designed to take up to 700+ amps without serious contact erosion. I have had a Q for over 35 years and am still using the same starter relay to operate it. You can run the Q continuous for over a minute and the solenoid does not even get warm, I am pulling an average of a little over 100 amps through a solenoid rated for 750 amps, thus little or no heat is produced.

In context: http://elightbars.org/forums/threads/another-q-wiring-question.3196/

 

[Deco]

Thanks for your help, shues!

 

[Skip Goulet]

I just bought a 12V Federal 66-G Siren on Ebay. I was able to wire it to a 12v rechargeable battery to test it, but I don't know the first thing about properly wiring sirens.
The seller told me I would have to use a solenoid for it, since it draws a lot of power.
I've read in some topics that Cole Hersee are the way to go for solenoids. So I have two questions for the experts (just about anyone but me!):
Does anyone have an idea which one would be ideal for this siren?
Is there anywhere online where I can learn how to wire it to the siren?
Any help would be immensely appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time.

Where are you putting the siren, and what sort of switching do you intend to use? If you plan to run it off a toggle switch, push button or horn button, then you need a solenoid as has been described on this thread. However, if you use the old-fashioned spring-loaded footswitch, a solenoid is not required, but still recommended. You would need to use at 4 or 6 ga. cable; and with a foot switch you can run the cable from the siren directly to one terminal of the foot switch and from switch direct to battery. That has worked on firetrucks, etc., for many years. But to get the most battery power to the siren, then I would agree on use of a solenoid.

 

[Deco]

Where are you putting the siren, and what sort of switching do you intend to use? If you plan to run it off a toggle switch, push button or horn button, then you need a solenoid as has been described on this thread. However, if you use the old-fashioned spring-loaded footswitch, a solenoid is not required, but still recommended. You would need to use at 4 or 6 ga. cable; and with a foot switch you can run the cable from the siren directly to one terminal of the foot switch and from switch direct to battery. That has worked on firetrucks, etc., for many years. But to get the most battery power to the siren, then I would agree on use of a solenoid.

I'm going to use a push button switch. By what I found online, it's pretty simple to wire. Thanks for the help!

 

[Deco]

So, I bought a Cole Hersee 24213 solenoid and hooked it up following a diagram I saw online. The siren works perfectly if I hook it up directly, but I get nothing if I use the solenoid. Here is the wiring setup I'm using. Please cope with me if I've done a basic mistake. I don't have any experience wiring a siren.

 

[MtnMan]

The unconnected terminal should be grounded.

 

[Deco]

Sorry...I made a mistake when I drew up the diagram. Actually, the momentary switch is hooked up to the top left terminal (S).

 

[Deco]

The unconnected terminal should be grounded.

Worked perfectly! Thanks!

 

[shues]

Worked perfectly! Thanks!

This solved your problem because you have what is called an insulated base solenoid. The base is not connected to either side of the solenoid coil, so grounding the base as in your diagram had no effect.

 

[Deco]

This solved your problem because you have what is called an insulated base solenoid. The base is not connected to either side of the solenoid coil, so grounding the base as in your diagram had no effect.

Thanks for the info!