Too many lights cause accidents....

[runesson]

I originally posted this in the http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/illustrated-guide-adequate-lighting-30112/


...but after some encouragement I´m giving it a thread of it´s own.


Here the issue:


We´ve been increasing the output of our lights for many years now, in order to increase safety in the context of increasingly distracted drivers.


However, as mentioned in a few threads on here, many vehicles are now blindingly bright. This, combined with the way we use warninglights on scene, may in fact increase the risk of accidents, rather than decrease.


Here´s a few interesting reads:


http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/documents/lodd-stats/lodd-fire-police.pdf (blinded drivers being one of three primary reasons for officers killed on scene)


Emergency Warning Lights & Parking Procedures - Firehouse (..."the area actually becomes unsafe due to all of the blinding and distracting lights.")


http://www.i95coalition.org/i95/Portals/0/Public_Files/uploaded/Incident-toolkit/documents/Guide/Guide_Clear_RF.pdf (Old presentation, but some interesting illustrations)


And here´s an example:


Crash Witness Says Lights Blinded Approaching Drivers - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports


Fell free to share other examples or personal experiences?

 

[twodogs603]

I sometimes agree.....How many times do we look at videos on here of installs where people are so proud because they got so many lights on their vehicles, and all the rapid flash patterns. We come to a point we have too many lights, flashing too fast, that it all looks too busy, and can be confusing to drivers. I think at times less can be better, and especially when the vehicle is stopped use a slower flash pattern. Ive seen many emergency vehicles with fast patterns and you cant tell if they are moving or sitting still.


The last article above reference the officer hit by a car because emergency vehicle headlights were blinding him, is one of the reasons that Virginia doesnt allow flashing high beam headlights at night time. Too blinding to oncoming traffic and can wash out the other emergency lights.


**** And this my friends, was by 500th post!

 

[Kd8bao]

There was an instance here in olmsted falls ohio I think it was. Police were clearing an intersection and was T-Boned by an 18 wheeler. Officer was killed. Truck driver stated he did not know what was I front of him. He saw a blur of light and was confused. Too many light and too fast flash patterns

 

[Hoser]

IMHO things need to be studied further and there are lots of variables to consider. Most of us have looked directly at lights on emergency vehicles many times. There are going to be people that blame their lack of attention on anything they can. Most accidents are caused by driver inattention. IE texting talking on phone, eating drinking, looking around, sleeping, speed and lack of, the list goes on and on. Sure there are times the lights probably contribute to an accident but its probably secondary to other things. Its known that strobes are used to test for seizures and can cause a seizure but they were used for quiet a few years. I dont see alot of difference between fast LEDs and strobes. Its going to take alot more documentation and study to prove that lights are to blame....

 

[MESDA6]

Even though the studies listed here are a few years old, they are still pertinent. SAE has been studying ways to keep emergency lights from blinding drivers and pedestrians for years now.


Non-Blinding Emergency Vehicle Lighting

 

[Snibsey]

That's why British-style reflective chevrons on the rear of vehicles are so effective.


Imagine a huge expanse of red and yellow that glows whenever it's caught by the light from an approaching vehicle's headlights. No danger of dazzle at night and far less likely to cause rubber-necking.


It's the intelligent way to approach the problem rather than fitting more lights on every spare square inch of vehicle in the absurd belief that more must always be better.

 

[MESDA6]

That's why British-style reflective chevrons on the rear of vehicles are so effective.

Imagine a huge expanse of red and yellow that glows whenever it's caught by the light from an approaching vehicle's headlights. No danger of dazzle at night and far less likely to cause rubber-necking.


It's the intelligent way to approach the problem rather than fitting more lights on every spare square inch of vehicle in the absurd belief that more must always be better.

The chevrons are only effective if there aren't blinding lights on the rear of the vehicle. Many vehicles in the US have both, so the chevrons are of no help at night.

 

[SireLite]

We also have batternburg. If you look at it this way. the US is behind on the reflective front, where as emergency services around the world have been using it for years and don't have to deck their vehicles out with thousands of lights.

 

[hitman38367]

The last article above reference the offier hit by a car because emergency vehicle headlights were blinding him, is one of the reasons that Virginia doesnt allow flashing high beam headlights at night time. Too blinding to oncoming traffic and can wash out the other emergency lights.

This very reason is why I will be installing my HLF on a totally separate switch with my next install so I can run everything else but that at night. I will also be wiring all of my individual lightheads to ULF44 flashers in order to sync them, have two separate patterns(one for response and a slower more steady alternating pattern for being on scene), and to have the low power option for at night, and also will be wiring all of my lights to be progressive with a slide switch so I can cut most of them off except for minimal needed safety amounts while on scene. Even I get blinded while working on scenes by all the lights that are going sometimes and I am not even driving. I can only imagine what the passers by are experiencing. As I have said before, even a fully popped Liberty going full blast by itself can blind someone at night.

 

[CodeMan]

I originally posted this in the http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/illustrated-guide-adequate-lighting-30112/
...but after some encouragement I´m giving it a thread of it´s own.


Here the issue:


We´ve been increasing the output of our lights for many years now, in order to increase safety in the context of increasingly distracted drivers.


However, as mentioned in a few threads on here, many vehicles are now blindingly bright. This, combined with the way we use warninglights on scene, may in fact increase the risk of accidents, rather than decrease.


Fell free to share other examples or personal experiences?

You mean like this?

It's a UFO from afar..


I remember a guy that had LEDs accross the top and bottom of the front and rear windows plus a vision on the roof & 4 corner strobes (siezure waiting to happen) !


Something to remember since the studies were done, the lights have gotten BRIGHTER like LEDs seem to get brighter the father away you are and can be blinding, Strobes are just blinding at any distance. Since the current draw is less that means you can have more lights ... :twocents:


Those who want the UFO effect are going to defend their choices to the death.. And thats fine, let em do it.. Great article.. Thanks !


(Bring back the tried and true ROTATORS)!! :thumbsup:

 

[Storm4200]

i am blinded every time i pass an incident thats on or near the roadway. At night, i can see your police car much better if you only have 2 rear pods activated. One red, then one blue. Thats it. simple as that. i can see you for miles!! But no, instead, there's a fully populated freedom bar on the roof, an 8head TIR6 Traffic Advisor on the deck, 4 LAWs in the tail lights, 2 LINZ6 on the plate and a pair or who knows what hanging from the rear headliner. The lights are too bright, theres too many of them, and people dont know how to use them properly. From a mile away, it looks like all lanes are closed and theres 1000 pieces of apparatus in the road. However, as you get closer you cant tell whats happening, the lights are so bright youre blinded. Then, as u creep by, hoping nobody is walking in front of you, you realize that it was ONE police car on a traffic stop. Totally overkill, and 100% does more harm then good. Nothing would make me happier then the NTSB placing restrictions on how many of these warning lights you can have, and how bright they can be. Especially at night. Just because you have some money left over to spend on lights, does NOT mean that you should. In MOST cases, Less is more.


*using a police car was only 1 example. the same goes for some ambulances, rescues, fire or EMS 'chief' vehicles too. And lets not forget the Hatzolah. They look like a flying circus' with a blinkie shoved in every possible crevice. IMO, They certainly don't look like vehicles that belong to respectable, professional organizations.

 

[squeeeg]

I feel the same way. There is an ambulance around me that is insane. They don't have more lights then everybody else they are just BRIGHT. I passed a scene where they were on the side of a major road and honestly I didn't know if there was any personnel on the side of the rig or if there was any oncoming traffic. It was more then necessary. I am all for being safe and making your vehicle visible but is it too much to ask to use the low power option once in a while.

 

[nerdly_dood]

I'd like to see some experiment with, say, normal LED lightbars with normal LED flash patterns (Liberty) compared with flash patterns that allow for equal visibility but with much less on-time. This would be done with either strobes, rotators using either LEDs or halogen, or maybe they could use Whelen's new pseudo-rotating bar using both its normal pseudo-rotating flash patterns and some patterns in which the whole rotator pod has the same on- and off-time as a single section would with a rotating pattern, i.e. a very brief single flash.


I'm thinking that flash patterns with a lot of off-time and short but very intense on-time would allow for good visibility of the vehicle, without blinding drivers, so they could actually see a person standing nearby.

 

[Eric1249]

Up to not too long ago the State Patrol here would run two Federal Signal SML-2's in the rear window with a slow single flash halogen flasher. You could see that from a good distance. I remember when I used the dash verson on the SML2 in the front window of my car. It had a big shield around it with a mount for your rear window. It was just flash back and forth. That and a headlight flasher. I had not problems getting through traffic back then. (before cell phones lol) I agree like in the video of the Charger, that is way to much. It is distracting. Moth to the flame

 

[FSEP]

I always go with the old saying: What Would React Do.


If I think they'd do it... Then I..... Don't do it.

 

[medic340]

I always go with the old saying: What Would React Do.

If I think they'd do it... Then I..... Don't do it.

What would REACT do LMAO

 

[John Hearne]

I'm amazed at how hard some people will work to be "safer" and every step they take makes it worse. It's no longer in service but we had a Crown Vic with a Tomar Blade (all blue), Whelen rear deck Inner Edge (all blue), LINZ6's on the license plate, and Vertexes in the reverse lights and tail lights. The driver refused to use low power or even have it hooked up as an option. At night, all you saw was a blue blob of light. As you approached it, you couldn't see anyone standing around the car if they were in the road. It was simply too much light flashing way too fast. With that said, I'm not convinced that too many lights is the problem but how they are used. In the above example had the rear deck flashed as one solid light and the light bar flashed as one solid light, 95% of the issues would have been resolved.


The real culprit is the poor patterns most people use. Studies vary but the human eye really doesn't do well with flash patterns above 120 frpm (an maybe up to 180 fpm). Anything faster than that is wasted. The real issue is that one you start flashing really fast, the light no longer appears to be on and off, it just flickers. Sure, it looks cool when you're standing in front of the car but it's worthless at a distance.


I was really amazed the first time I viewed one our lightbars at distance. The pattern switched between solid on/off flashes and a multi-flash Comet flash style pattern. At a distance, the lightbar was only visible during the solid flashes. The multiple flashed simply made the bar look faint and weak. I agree that the pattern should be different and more urgent when the vehicle is in motion but a single flash at 120 fpm is about as fast as you can go and still be effective.

 

[Doug]

Studies vary but the human eye really doesn't do well with flash patterns above 120 frpm (an maybe up to 180 fpm). Anything faster than that is wasted.

I remember reading some SoundOff literature for their headlight flasher (3 flashes/second) saying that it creates an involuntary eye response (citing a scientific study - I think it may have been USAF ophthalmology.)

 

[John Hearne]

I remember reading some SoundOff literature for their headlight flasher (3 flashes/second) saying that it creates an involuntary eye response (citing a scientific study - I think it may have been USAF ophthalmology.)

I've seen the same number of 180 fpm and the attribution to the USAF. It does seem to suggest the top range of flash rate that might work.


My question is, once you get their attention, how do you keep them from hitting you? What seems to work well to get attention doesn't seem to work well to mark the vehicles position in space so that you can avoid it. IIRC, 120 fpm is the fastest that SAE is willing to validate. It may be a matter of application - good for a cockpit, not so good on the side of the road, versus vehicle in motion trying to get attention.


My big issue with anything over 120 fpm is that it quickly tends to flicker over long distances. The way you tell something is on is by knowing that's its off. As speed increases, that distinction is lost. One light really fast to get attention might work but there is going to have to be enough other visual information to allow the person seeing it to respond properly.

 

[EVModules]

Ever notice the similarities of the hand-held (and gun mount) LED lights that do double duty to distract the suspect by flashing in the eyes?


Multiply that and put a civilian behind a moving 2,500 pound car while expecting him to expertly drive within the confines of his legal lane of travel.


It's time to go back to lighting management, tactics, and scene control. CHP is leading the field at this and hardly anyone notices it.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Texas DPS recently went to some high-powered LED bars, Code 3, I think, and you can see them for miles. In this part of West Texas, effective lighting, day or night, has become absolutely essential: given the extreme increase of traffic due to the oil boom in this area. The DPS lightbars have red/blue LEDs, and the rear lights and front lights can be separated from each other. I guarantee...you can see these bars for miles, as I said, but they're not so overbright that they'll blind at close range. Apparently the state did some research.


Two of the most effective ambulance lighting packages we ever had were: our first ambulance, a '60 model Chevy wagon. It had an old Mars DL8 "figure-8" light mounted on the front center of the roof. This was an old 6-volt light that the only changes we made was to add a 12-volt #1019 Jr. Beacon bulb. The oscillation of the light was sped up, but running it on 12-v never hurt it. And I assure you, you could see that old light for a long way. What I liked was the way the oscillation of the light would catch the rearview mirrors of the cars in front of you, immediately attracting their attention. We also had a pair of blue Carpenter lights, one on each side of the Mars light, and a pair of red 6" Unity lights on the bumper. All four lights were hooked to an alternating flasher, and were hooked up so that the top left flashed with the bumper right, etc., giving it a criss-cross effect. Then we a red 17 Beacon in the rear. The siren was fender mounted. For an older vehicle, this was a very effective light set up, about which we got a lot of positive comments and only one complaint. That was from a deputy sheriff, who on his own, decided to escort us one night as we were enroute to the E.R. from the racetrack we worked. His gripe was about how bright that "wobbly light" was and how he almost had to cover his mirror. Worked, didn't it?


The second ambulance was a 1965 Pontiac Consort ambulance which had a pair of Federal clear-domed 175 "hill light" beacons on the front corners. Both beacons had the standard two red/two clear bulbs. We had a Q center-mounted and a pair of red DoRay lollipops between the Q and front beacons and a blue Dietz 211-WW behind the Q. This was a very compelling light set up which was highly visible day or night. Remarkably, the sole complaint we ever got was on the first run we ever made in that ambulance! It came from a Lubbock P.D. officer who had observed us as we went thru a busy intersection. Long story short, Superior put 55-amp alternators on their Pontiacs, and that had sufficed in the past on other Consorts we had operated. But somewhere along the way before we bought the car, a standard 35-amp alternator had been put on the car. At the intersection in question, the Q had suddenly quit; but the electronic siren w/grille-mount speaker got us thru o.k. This happened to us twice on the same day, and it was on the second run when the cop had seen us and followed us in. He complained about not seeing our lights well; but as it turned out to be a problem with the alternator, it was quickly remedied.


While I like some of the upgraded LEDs we now have, I feel that some of the old ways as I describe above, just can't be beat!

 

[CodeMan]

My current rear only set up is fairly slow, I can only hope im not a blob when working 3rd shift... All other modes are that of the rotating (led style) since the other patterns seem to busy..


http://www.flickr.com/photos/9166101...n/photostream/

 

[CodeMan]

My question is, once you get their attention, how do you keep them from hitting you?

Dress up like a flashing traffic cone?

 

[Doug]

Ever notice the similarities of the hand-held (and gun mount) LED lights that do double duty to distract the suspect by flashing in the eyes?

Multiply that and put a civilian behind a moving 2,500 pound car while expecting him to expertly drive within the confines of his legal lane of travel.


It's time to go back to lighting management, tactics, and scene control. CHP is leading the field at this and hardly anyone notices it.

I've seen the same number of 180 fpm and the attribution to the USAF. It does seem to suggest the top range of flash rate that might work.

My question is, once you get their attention, how do you keep them from hitting you? What seems to work well to get attention doesn't seem to work well to mark the vehicles position in space so that you can avoid it. IIRC, 120 fpm is the fastest that SAE is willing to validate. It may be a matter of application - good for a cockpit, not so good on the side of the road, versus vehicle in motion trying to get attention.


My big issue with anything over 120 fpm is that it quickly tends to flicker over long distances. The way you tell something is on is by knowing that's its off. As speed increases, that distinction is lost. One light really fast to get attention might work but there is going to have to be enough other visual information to allow the person seeing it to respond properly.

I almost wonder if we ought to go with a single pair of slowly alternating halogen or LED flashers, and nothing else!

 

[Andy L.]

I almost wonder if we ought to go with a single pair of slowly alternating halogen or LED flashers, and nothing else!

This is what I do at night....my car has a fully populated WeCan Liberty, rear deck Talon, Vertex in the reverse lights, OEM HLF & TLF, and M2 intersection lights. At night I typically make all of my traffic stops with just a pair of red/blue lights on the front of the bar and the rear is a pair of amber/blue, the Talon, Vertex all alternating at 60 single FPM and TLF. I also activate the cruise lights. Its more than enough for 99% of my stops at night.


All of our cars are also setup to automatically change the pattern of the lightbar and disable all white light when shifted to park. I have also started ordering the Liberty bars with the photo sensor to allow the lights to auto dim at night.

 

[Tlauden]

This is what I do at night....my car has a fully populated WeCan Liberty, rear deck Talon, Vertex in the reverse lights, OEM HLF & TLF, and M2 intersection lights. At night I typically make all of my traffic stops with just a pair of red/blue lights on the front of the bar and the rear is a pair of amber/blue, the Talon, Vertex all alternating at 60 single FPM and TLF. I also activate the cruise lights. Its more than enough for 99% of my stops at night.

All of our cars are also setup to automatically change the pattern of the lightbar and disable all white light when shifted to park. I have also started ordering the Liberty bars with the photo sensor to allow the lights to auto dim at night.

I really like this setup, the nice slow flash patterns i would imagine are easier on the eyes at night.


In Pa the state police have been upgrading the lightbars to LED (not sure what model) but at night its crazy bright. The first time i saw one i actually thought the road was closed for some reason, plus the fact i couldnt tell if the car was parked on the shoulder or in a lane of travel. I approached the vehicle at about 20 mph and i was prepared to stop(speed limit is 55 where this was). The fast flashing of the lights is very disorienting... I have asked several troopers if they have the capability of a low power option at night and they all say no, so im assuming that that option is not hooked up...


Anyone else in PA have this problem when passing PSP at night??

 

[pdk9]

Unfortunately, I think this is a problem with a bunch of POVs and LEO vehicles in depts where the officers are allowed to add their own lighting (without getting some sort of approval). The biggest probem I've seen is the rear window of sedans having 3 levels of lighting (literally stacked on top of each other) flashing as fast as possible, or SUVs with a lightbar, rear headliner stick, and a bunch of rear-facing crap on the D-post and above the rear wiper. People need to apply the "work smart, not hard" approach to lighting and by taking some time to see what is efficient, these ultra-dumb whackers can save a lot of money and be less likely to be hit by blinded traffic (cough cough hatzolah members cough cough)...ie, a D6 (or similar) on the rear headliner of an SUV or a pair of single/dual avengers/vipers surrounding the CHMSL of a sedan would be plenty sufficient in most cases IMHO. The only time I've ever liked a sedan setup with a lightstick on the rear deck and one on the headliner is on FHP vehicles, because they are synced, the same color, and not flashing at some seizure-causing rate.


As for excessive front lighting, I don't find it as dangerous as having excessive lighting to the rear; I just find it extremely ugly and tacky (I don't think it blinds oncoming traffic as bad as rear warning does, because oncoming traffic is more off-axis, being several lanes over, but it is dangerous in the way that it is distracting to them IMO)

 

[RugerLC9]

The Federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) 2009 edition, section 6I.05 "Use of Emergency Vehicle Lighting" recommends that good traffic control be established at a traffic incident. The MUTCD recommends the following:


(1) All forward facing flashing lighting be extinguished so as not to blind on-coming drivers, especially on 4-lane highways.


(2) All floodlights/worklights/scene lights not needed to illuminate the actual work area be extinguished.


I read somewhere that all responding vehicles should be properly parked with rear amber lights activated and the rear most vehicle is the only one to have the lightbar activated (for advance warning). I have worked in a public works dept for 39+ years that assists the police & fire units at incidents (accidents, fires, etc). I have seen 1st hand the blinding headlight flashers & lightbars fully lit up with police & fire personnel directing traffic & almost getting hit because they couldn't be seen by oncoming drivers.


My present truck is a 2003 Silverado with a Federal Highlighter (amber halogen) mounted in the center of the headache rack. I don't want to sound like I am against bright LED lightbars - I'm not. I feel that I need more lights on my vehicle. I agree that proper use of the lighting is essential.

 

[twodogs603]

I have seen 1st hand the blinding headlight flashers & lightbars fully lit up with police & fire personnel directing traffic & almost getting hit because they couldn't be seen by oncoming drivers.
.

Virginia law doesnt allow for headlights to flash at night (except for a few localities that have exemptions). I think there needs to be a standards such as the NFPA that requires white light cut off when parked (but only at night).

 

[firefighter7017]

It isn't a matter of to many lights, or a matter of LED's.


Just use the lights properly, with good patterns, and make use of the dimming/low power feature, and everyone will be just fine.

 

[Quickstep80]

I read somewhere that all responding vehicles should be properly parked with rear amber lights activated and the rear most vehicle is the only one to have the lightbar activated (for advance warning).

Basically, I like the idea, but I doubt if that's really feasible...


I'm just thinking of a highway traffic collision with quite a few vehicles responding. There would permanently be another "new" rearmost vehicle, especially during the first 20 minutes or so.


Nevertheless I support the concept of clearly distinguishing between moving emergency vehicles (right of way) and stationary obstacles by the use of different warning light colors. In some countries that's already determined by law or at least recommended. As soon as my POV has arrived at the scene of emergency, I switch to amber to show following motorists, "careful - slow down, hazard". From my point of view it doesn't matter if it's a road traffic accident or any kind of maintenance work that's causing the obstacle. Any amber light should be taken seriously. Hazardous situations on the road don't necessarily require emergencies like accidents, so I don't want to make a difference between "real" dangerous situations with emergency response vehicles and their red/blue/whatever-colored lights present and "second class hazards" like road workers whose amber lights may be considered "less important".


On the scene I check which lights are really necessary to warn others, and switch off everything else. And as far as I can, I go with amber only as long as I'm stationary.

 

[firefighter31]

this thread is very disturbing to the inner kid in me.

 

[Quickstep80]

Don't worry, my play instinct and my inner voice of reason are duelling as well.

 

[Skip Goulet]

The Federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) 2009 edition, section 6I.05 "Use of Emergency Vehicle Lighting" recommends that good traffic control be established at a traffic incident. The MUTCD recommends the following:
(1) All forward facing flashing lighting be extinguished so as not to blind on-coming drivers, especially on 4-lane highways.


(2) All floodlights/worklights/scene lights not needed to illuminate the actual work area be extinguished.


I read somewhere that all responding vehicles should be properly parked with rear amber lights activated and the rear most vehicle is the only one to have the lightbar activated (for advance warning). I have worked in a public works dept for 39+ years that assists the police & fire units at incidents (accidents, fires, etc). I have seen 1st hand the blinding headlight flashers & lightbars fully lit up with police & fire personnel directing traffic & almost getting hit because they couldn't be seen by oncoming drivers.


My present truck is a 2003 Silverado with a Federal Highlighter (amber halogen) mounted in the center of the headache rack. I don't want to sound like I am against bright LED lightbars - I'm not. I feel that I need more lights on my vehicle. I agree that proper use of the lighting is essential.

You can go from one extreme to another. Until the late '60s or early '70s, Texas DPS came with a single spotlight and a little Federal EG siren mounted underhood. Some of the units had red slip-over lenses for the spotlight, while others came with red sealed beams in the spotlight. For a lot of years DPS troopers were allowed to equip their units however they wished, but at their own expense. For example, one of the local units here was the first to have anything on the roof: a red Federal 17 beacon, plus red lights in the rear deck. By the late '60s we started seeing a few units with VisiBars; but those were also at the troopers' own expense. The one interesting setup in the '70s was when they were using the downsized Mustangs. They came with single-faced North American halogen lights in red/blue bumper and rear deck mounted; and were of the first to have electronic sirens, also North American. One interesting aspect with the VisiBars was in the troopers' mounting of the EG and WG sirens on the bar. At least they were somewhat more audible. Now Texas DPS has Code 3 LED bars that are very bright, and they have the capability of running the front lights and rear lights separately; and at night you're beginning to see just the rear lights only when they have someone stopped. These newer bars are extremely bright and can be seen for miles! What they need to do now is get a sound package that can be heard on the highway. I don't know where they're putting the speakers, but they're not well heard at all.

 

[blairian]

You can go from one extreme to another. Until the late '60s or early '70s, Texas DPS came with a single spotlight and a little Federal EG siren mounted underhood. Some of the units had red slip-over lenses for the spotlight, while others came with red sealed beams in the spotlight. For a lot of years DPS troopers were allowed to equip their units however they wished, but at their own expense. For example, one of the local units here was the first to have anything on the roof: a red Federal 17 beacon, plus red lights in the rear deck. By the late '60s we started seeing a few units with VisiBars; but those were also at the troopers' own expense. The one interesting setup in the '70s was when they were using the downsized Mustangs. They came with single-faced North American halogen lights in red/blue bumper and rear deck mounted; and were of the first to have electronic sirens, also North American. One interesting aspect with the VisiBars was in the troopers' mounting of the EG and WG sirens on the bar. At least they were somewhat more audible. Now Texas DPS has Code 3 LED bars that are very bright, and they have the capability of running the front lights and rear lights separately; and at night you're beginning to see just the rear lights only when they have someone stopped. These newer bars are extremely bright and can be seen for miles! What they need to do now is get a sound package that can be heard on the highway. I don't know where they're putting the speakers, but they're not well heard at all.

Mounted behind the grill...doesn't work too well.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Mounted behind the grill...doesn't work too well.

That would explain things. On some of their early units with electronic sirens I some the speakers mounted behind the grille face-down. When the ran the small Mustangs they had the nice pushbutton North American sirens, but the speakers were underhood with the front of the speaker up against the radiator shroud. I wouldn't want to run hot in something like that. Where in TX are you?

 

[blairian]

That would explain things. On some of their early units with electronic sirens I some the speakers mounted behind the grille face-down. When the ran the small Mustangs they had the nice pushbutton North American sirens, but the speakers were underhood with the front of the speaker up against the radiator shroud. I wouldn't want to run hot in something like that. Where in TX are you?

Yeah, me either! They are pretty weak considering the rest of the equipment that is ran. Once I get up to speed on a highway I usually turn the darn thing off - it's useless. However, you'll notice, that very few of the units have any type of push-bumper / grill guard - so that's about the only place left to mount it. That's considering that they even mount the speaker in the right direction. :hopeless: It's hit and miss. I think more of the newer units coming out are equipped with push-bumpers, etc.


I'm in Central Texas, Travis County.

 

[hitman38367]

Yeah, me either! They are pretty weak considering the rest of the equipment that is ran. Once I get up to speed on a highway I usually turn the darn thing off - it's useless. However, you'll notice, that very few of the units have any type of push-bumper / grill guard - so that's about the only place left to mount it. That's considering that they even mount the speaker in the right direction. :hopeless: It's hit and miss. I think more of the newer units coming out are equipped with push-bumpers, etc.

I'm in Central Texas, Travis County.

I wish we could do that here in TN but our state laws mandate that when responding code 3, we have to run visual AND audible warning regardless of where we are.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Yeah, me either! They are pretty weak considering the rest of the equipment that is ran. Once I get up to speed on a highway I usually turn the darn thing off - it's useless. However, you'll notice, that very few of the units have any type of push-bumper / grill guard - so that's about the only place left to mount it. That's considering that they even mount the speaker in the right direction. :hopeless: It's hit and miss. I think more of the newer units coming out are equipped with push-bumpers, etc.

I'm in Central Texas, Travis County.

Haven't been to Austin area in a long time. One of my former volunteers when I ran a small standby ambulance in Lubbock was from Austin, and is back that way from what I understand. His name is Tim Elkins. Tall red-headed guy...you couldn't miss him.


What are the new LED bars being run by THP? Some of the ones here in Region 4 are awesome! I saw on all lit up on I20 a couple of days ago, and this one had clear lights in the center pod and you could see it a long way off! :yes:

 

[Q2bman]

TEXAS DPS uses Whelen Freedom light bars. I havn't seen any code 3 bars on Texas DPS cars. I like the pattern they use. Nice slow single flash alternating. They turn most of the bar off when on traffic. When running code, they use the 4 pulse and then steady pattern on the ends and the slow flash in the middle. nice. They also have tons of take down light!


I'm on the fence with the yellow to the rear theory. Can anyone explain why so many construction vehicles get hit? And in Texas and Oklahoma the construction crews and tow vehicles are allowed red and blue. I don't think anyone has any conclusive evidence of why people crash. HUA is my only answer. I can have almost no lighting on and people stop and ask if they can go through where i'm blocking the road. Why in the hell would I be blocking the road if you can go through! I think people are just getting more stupid and lazy! I paid attention in driver's ed and I scored highly on my written test. People now just don't care. I stop people and explain the most simple traffic laws to them and it's like they are hearing it for the first time ever. Pathetic! A license to drive is a privilege and should be earned! All I know is we used to use Federal Signal Jet Streams and they sucked so bad. We went from Street Hawks with crazy light output to those POS lightbars. People still tried to run us over. We then went to Whelen Edge strobe bars. Tons of non synced strobe power with rear deck strobes and corner strobes. Still, they came. Now we run Liberty lightbars and the installer didn't care what they flashed like. Every bar we have flashes differently. I have tried to change a few to all action flash but the bars aren't synced and they still twinkle. Still, they come. I wired up my unit with all synced whelen led on a single ulf44 and dimed it at night............nearly killed by a damn drunk as she approached an accident scene. The only answer is run like hell. They will come.