UPDATE..INPUT NEEDED...alternator whine/vehicle noise on radio RX?

[bwheelz05]

So we have a 04 Dodge Dakota that has developed alternator whine/engine noise and emergency lighting noise (you can hear the patterns) that is noticeable on RX. During TX everything seems to sound ok... little to no noticeable noise. **of course with the engine off no problems**


Took the vehicle apart with the county shop guys and checked ALL grounds from equipment and vehicle chassis grounds from engine to frame.... nothing broke, loose, dirty or missing. ... The county guys cannot figure it out nor can we and was told if everything sounds good during TX then there really is no point in worrying and the band aid fix is putting a power/noise filter on all the power wires to the equipment.


Now something weird I noticed when we were checking for bad grounds is that when the grounds to our radio equipment were removed… the radios stayed ON First question: Are radios positive fed and the ground serves its purpose only for faults or any electrical issue requiring that return path? Is this normal for radios to still operate with their grounds removed? (I am not a radio guru. And I found this disturbing having been told equipment needs and positive and negative or it won’t work)


So second question is this: Has similar issues arisen with folks here and what are your suggestions? Replace the alternator? What about the noise amplifiers? What causes noise into the radio on RX?


We also removed the antennas (mounted on fenders) and looked for corrosion and damage and then reinstalled those antennas on temporary mag mounts and the problem still existed. We reinstalled the antennas on NEW mounts and slightly different locations on the fenders, still no change with the engine off.


Do appreciate any help or suggestions.


BW

 

[Steve0625]

Now something weird I noticed when we were checking for bad grounds is that when the grounds to our radio equipment were removed… the radios stayed ON First question: Are radios positive fed and the ground serves its purpose only for faults or any electrical issue requiring that return path? Is this normal for radios to still operate with their grounds removed? (I am not a radio guru. And I found this disturbing having been told equipment needs and positive and negative or it won’t work)

The radio is still grounded by the antenna coax.


The chassis mounting for some radios can also be a ground if it's bolted to vehicle steel.


And some radios are grounded through the microphone hang up clip.


It's also possible that there may be another ground if the radio is interconnected to a siren or other system in the car.

 

[MtnMan]

Best practice is to run the radio power (fused, of course) and ground directly to the battery terminals.

 

[wema628]

have the shop check the spark plugs and wires. if theres is a bad wire in can cause the promble your having.

 

[tvsjr]

Best practice is to run the radio power (fused, of course) and ground directly to the battery terminals.

No, best practice is to ground the radio to a proper chassis ground (frame if possible) close to the radio itself. Ground should never be run directly to the battery, unless you enjoy the radio being turned into a path to ground for the starter should the vehicle's ground straps fail.

have the shop check the spark plugs and wires. if theres is a bad wire in can cause the promble your having.

Plugs and wires almost always cause a popping noise, not a continuous whine.

Are radios positive fed and the ground serves its purpose only for faults or any electrical issue requiring that return path? Is this normal for radios to still operate with their grounds removed? (I am not a radio guru. And I found this disturbing having been told equipment needs and positive and negative or it won’t work)

Have you heard the term "electrical circuit"? The term circuit is used for a reason. Power flows in a circle, from higher potential to lower potential (+12V to ground... or 0V, you hope). The radio will continue to operate because it is being grounded either through the antenna (the outer shield of the coax), through the bracket, or even through the microphone if a grounded mic clip is used. You would be advised to not try transmitting in this configuration... putting the magic smoke back into components is Serious Business.


So, time for some simple tests. You say the problem doesn't occur with the engine off... I presume this is with all equipment activated, ignition in ON but the engine not started?


Is the whine dependent on engine speed (typically, higher RPM = higher pitch whine)?


If the answer to both is yes, you've likely lost a diode in the rectifier of your alternator. This is causing at least some part of an AC waveform to be present on the alternator's output. Since you aren't a radio guy you probably don't have one... but an oscilloscope can be used to confirm this. The popping you mention - I assume you're running strobes. The inrush current to the power supply will change the demand on the alternator, which will cause changes in the AC waveform mixed with the DC, which you may be hearing. Also, check routing of strobe cables if you are using any remote strobe power supplies (as in, not built into a lightbar) - make sure you aren't paralleling the strobe cables with any coax cables, radio control cables, power wires, etc. Strobe cables should run as far away as possible from any other cabling. If you must cross other wiring, do so at 90 degree angles. And you do have the drain wires on your strobe cables hooked to ground at *one end*, right?


Long story short - assuming the noise only happens when the engine is running, and is dependent on engine speed, replace the alternator. Buy a good alternator - if you can find something made by a real alternator company (Leece-Neville, etc.), buy that. I went through four alternators on a brand new 2007 F150 trying to find one that didn't have problems... much to Ford's chagrin. If this resolves your problem, congratulations... your alternator has warned you before it totally crapped itself and left the vehicle stranded.

 

[Duncanville1]

If you have verified all the power connections and grounds, you can install a "brute force" line filter close to the radio to remove the DC whine. As for the emergency lighting noise, I assume you are using strobe? If you can hear the PS firing then I would look at the strobe cables. Its been a while since I have touched anything strobe, but as I recall the shield on strobe cables are designed to be grounded..

 

[Newton15]

Ive got a similar problem occuring on my 95 chevy silverado, the whining noise that is coming across on my minitor V increases with RPM. I dont get the noise across on my portable radio just the pager. Ive replaced the grounding straps on the truck and checked the battery ground as well. Also the problem seems to happen more when the weather is cold in late fall and winter. Im leaning towards the alternator myself but I havent found anyone to concur with me before I go out and drop money on an alternator.

 

[Steve0625]

Ive got a similar problem occuring on my 95 chevy silverado, the whining noise that is coming across on my minitor V increases with RPM. I dont get the noise across on my portable radio just the pager. Ive replaced the grounding straps on the truck and checked the battery ground as well. Also the problem seems to happen more when the weather is cold in late fall and winter. Im leaning towards the alternator myself but I havent found anyone to concur with me before I go out and drop money on an alternator.

Take the alternator to an alternator shop and have them test it before just buying a replacement. If there's a bad diode, they will tell you. Then replace it. If not, you'll have to look at other possible causes.

 

[MtnMan]

No, best practice is to ground the radio to a proper chassis ground (frame if possible) close to the radio itself. Ground should never be run directly to the battery, unless you enjoy the radio being turned into a path to ground for the starter should the vehicle's ground straps fail.

Several (maybe most) of the radio manufacturers agree with me. As far as all the ground straps failing, it's unlikely, but you could always fuse the radio negative wire.

 

[Steve0625]

Several (maybe most) of the radio manufacturers agree with me. As far as all the ground straps failing, it's unlikely, but you could always fuse the radio negative wire.

Motorola specifies ground to be connected to chassis ground, not the battery in their install manuals. That's more than enough guidance for me.

 

[tvsjr]

Several (maybe most) of the radio manufacturers agree with me. As far as all the ground straps failing, it's unlikely, but you could always fuse the radio negative wire.

Actually, most don't, but that's OK. And fusing the negative wire is a great idea... the radio will still power up, as it's grounded through the antenna - at least, until you attempt to transmit, and then all the magic smoke will come out.


I guess that wouldn't be the case if you used a mag-mount or glass-mount... if you do that, there's no hope for you anyway.

 

[SlickTop Solutions]

Several (maybe most) of the amateur radio manufacturers agree with me. As far as all the ground straps failing, it's unlikely, but you could always fuse the radio negative wire.

Fixed that for you.


I have yet to see any commercial radio installation documents make the above comments, especially the fuse on the ground, whereas, every amateur radio document makes the recommendation and in most cases provides a power lead with a fuse on both sides.


Why is there a difference between the commercial and amateur side from the same manufacturer you ask?


Good question, the answer is, the manufacturers know that most amateur gear will not be installed by professional installers and mistakes may happen on initial install. The ground fuse is to protect the radio from letting the magic blue smoke out on initial power up after an erroneous install.


Ask me how I know, how much money I have made off of amateurs correcting their self installs.

 

[MtnMan]

I have yet to see any commercial radio installation documents make the above comments, especially the fuse on the ground, whereas, every amateur radio document makes the recommendation and in most cases provides a power lead with a fuse on both sides.

Yeah, I'm more familiar with amateur, but off the top of my head, Kenwood uses a fused negative on their LMRs, so it's not strictly commercial vs. amateur thing.


Out of genuine interest, when a manufacturer provides and recommends a double-fused power cable, would you suggest substituting a chassis ground instead?

 

[tvsjr]

Equipment should *always* be grounded to chassis, or frame if possible.

 

[SlickTop Solutions]

Equipment should *always* be grounded to chassis, or frame if possible.

And by chassis or frame, we do not mean a bolt holding the seat down. There are factory ground points in both kick panel in most vehicles, use them.

 

[bwheelz05]

Hello Everybody!


Thank you all for the responses. I haven’t been around to check in on the posting as Colorado is having some nasty winter weather lately. Been keeping the FD busy.


Ok so I reviewed your folks suggestions. First I will answer some of the questions asked.


There are no strobes on the vehicle. The emergency lighting noise is coming from the strobesNmore Dual color LED heads.


The microphone clips for the radio or tacked into the plastic dash. All the radios are grounded to the ground stud behind the kick panel on the passenger side. The one radio (Kenwood) does not seem affected. The TYT-9000 (VHF) is the radio where the noise is being heard from when the radio RX's. BOTH radios though have a negative wire that is fused..... (Bad/Good? Seems to be a differing opinion on that so far... Should I remove the fuses NEGATIVE end and connect directly to ground?)


Yes, the noise stops and isn’t heard when the engine is OFF, ignition is ON. The noise ‘whine’ is directly proportional to the engine speed. (High RPM) The county guys checked the ground straps and they are in good shape. (Engine, alternator and chassis)


I brought the truck in to get the alternator checked on the possibility of the diodes and the folks hooked up their little machine to the battery (? ) and said all checked out fine.


BUT…… I have noticed that the battery ammeter is HIGHER in the past several weeks. Not to the red MAX line but significantly higher than normal… alternator? Has been reading higher in both the cold and warm weather. Tried turning on all equipment and off again to see if the draw significantly moves the ammeter but no change. Just simply been reading higher.


The radio equipment still turns on when the negative leads are removed. I then removed the antennas to see if the ground existed there and the radios were still on.... Will continue searching for opens in the wiring/shielding. The coax is coiled on itself. (the excess coax) I unrolled the coax to get it as straight as possible but no change in noise when the engine is on and emergency lighting on.


*Isn’t heard on the portable radios though. Both near and far, inside and outside the truck. Nothing heard on the portables*


The TYT-9000 I am going to assume is a cheapo radio… maybe so Chinese cheap that the radio itself is bad?


Still have a question though as to why on RX the noise is heard? What is happening on RX for the ‘whine’ noise to be heard and why is it NOT being re-transmitted? As I said earlier the noise or ‘whine’ is NOT heard on TX.


I will definitely be looking into the ground problem…..The antennas are fender mounted. Not permanent as that is not an option. (Don’t know why, just told NO)


Really appreciated the responses though, thank you all for the continued help.

 

[bwheelz05]

Forgot to mention...Also has spark plug wires checked. Were all replaced as a precaution. Didnt solve anything. Still concerned about the high ammeter reading and of course the grounding issue. Looking like the alternator more and more but like I said, the guys checked it at the auto store and was told it was fine.... ??


High ammeter= alternator ??

 

[tvsjr]

The TYT radios are Chinese... they are no Motorola, but sadly they're not bad radios.


Whine: Every symptom you describe says alternator problem. That machine they hooked up is looking at voltage and, maybe if you're lucky, current. It's not an oscilloscope - it's not looking for any AC component. Go swap the alternator. The gauge on your dash is a voltmeter, not an ammeter... reading high could be indicative of a further alternator problem, like a failing voltage regulator. Also could be a bad battery, so have that checked.


Ground: Your radio is getting ground from somewhere. What's it mounted to - is the bracket bolted to something that's tied to ground? It doesn't really matter... make sure you have a good ground point (and yes, get rid of the fuses) and you're good to go.


Coax: As far as the coax... coax in a coil is known as a choke. It increases inductance and has significant impact on the SWR of the antenna system. Coax should be cut to length and a proper connector installed using the right crimp tools. If you don't have the skills or tools, find a radio shop that does.

 

[bwheelz05]

Hi, Thanks again for the response...


Understood.. VOLTmeter.. not ammeter. High or 'Higher' vs its normal range could be the alternator. (The diode is in the regulator correct?)


Battery was swapped about 20 mins ago for a brand new one. (No difference though) Voltmeter still high, still whine and lighting noise when engine on.


Was told to start pricing alternators. So I did: Autozone=Duralast (Import) alternator, Advanced auto= 'Toughone', Denso(remanu'ed), Oreilly: Ultima, Beck/Arlney.


Those are my choices. So I called the Dodge Dealer... they said that the alternators they receive are the same types mentioned above but cost more. (Of course... dealer charges.... uggghhh )


I will work on getting the coax cut shorter, might have to wait due to new Havis console being installed soon.


Remove the fuses on the NEGATIVE wires ONLY correct. (Common sense tells me that’s correct but just want to make sure you did mean the NEGATIVE fuse only) **FYI: The power wire is run from the POSITIVE terminal on the battery to a fuse block in the rear of the vehicle. The fuse block is screwed into plastic underneath the rear bench seat then the individual wiring to the equipment is ran to the switch box and radios in front. This will all be changed when the havis console is installed. **


Still am curious for self-knowledge (Questions, Questions...) what is happening and why does the radio pick up the noise only on its RX and no noise is transmitted or heard during TX?


Also, the grounds for the LED modules are grounded pretty close or adjacent to the units themselves ( I guess to negate the need for running an extra ground wire to each unit.) Could it also be possible that the 'noise' from the emergency lights is being heard because of a bad ground from the LEDS?


Thanks!

 

[tvsjr]

Hi, Thanks again for the response...

Understood.. VOLTmeter.. not ammeter. High or 'Higher' vs its normal range could be the alternator. (The diode is in the regulator correct?)

All depends on the construction - most alternators don't have a discrete voltage regulator anymore (at least, not one that you can swap out without pulling the whole thing apart)

Battery was swapped about 20 mins ago for a brand new one. (No difference though) Voltmeter still high, still whine and lighting noise when engine on.

Sounding more and more like a bad alternator!

Was told to start pricing alternators. So I did: Autozone=Duralast (Import) alternator, Advanced auto= 'Toughone', Denso(remanu'ed), Oreilly: Ultima, Beck/Arlney.

Those are my choices. So I called the Dodge Dealer... they said that the alternators they receive are the same types mentioned above but cost more. (Of course... dealer charges.... uggghhh )

Yeah, there are only a few companies that reman alternators. I've used a couple O'Reilly ones in the past and they were OK. Make sure you get one with a good warranty, so you can return it if necessary.

I will work on getting the coax cut shorter, might have to wait due to new Havis console being installed soon.

At the very least, get it out of the coil. You are better off looping it end of end and tying it in the center, being very careful to not bend the cable too sharply at the ends (ever seen a skein of yarn? like that).

Remove the fuses on the NEGATIVE wires ONLY correct. (Common sense tells me that’s correct but just want to make sure you did mean the NEGATIVE fuse only) **FYI: The power wire is run from the POSITIVE terminal on the battery to a fuse block in the rear of the vehicle. The fuse block is screwed into plastic underneath the rear bench seat then the individual wiring to the equipment is ran to the switch box and radios in front. This will all be changed when the havis console is installed. **

You should have no fuses in your ground wires, and one fuse in your positive wire. If you are connecting to a fuse block that has individual fuses for each device, then you can safely remove the inline fuse. I rarely use inline fuses, because I have fuse blocks for everything (Blue Sea is your friend, if you can afford them). Of course I have 4 12-position fuse blocks full, plus all the outputs from the Cencom... so it's sort of a requirement for me.

Still am curious for self-knowledge (Questions, Questions...) what is happening and why does the radio pick up the noise only on its RX and no noise is transmitted or heard during TX?

It all depends how the issue interacts with the radio. You might move some things around and then start hearing it in the TX. It might also be fairly high in frequency and actually be present in the transmitted audio, but either be too quiet to notice or be rolled off by the transmitter or repeater's audio filtering.

Also, the grounds for the LED modules are grounded pretty close or adjacent to the units themselves ( I guess to negate the need for running an extra ground wire to each unit.) Could it also be possible that the 'noise' from the emergency lights is being heard because of a bad ground from the LEDS?

If you disconnect the LEDs completely, do you still get the RPM-dependent whine? If so, there are lots of possibilities.


Try to reduce the number of variables in your "equation" where possible. Disconnect the LEDs. Disconnect any other non-essential equipment. Get down to nothing but the truck and the radio if possible. Then... is the whine still present?

 

[bwheelz05]

Hi again, thanks for the advice…. Took a little longer to reply. (MVA… overturned vehicle … Roads are plowed, sun is out, ice is gone… just a wet road and a random vehicle flips. Driver couldn’t explain it. Claimed her SUV “just turned over!” Fortunately no injuries)


Will re-coil the coax to the extent you suggested.


Disconnected the ground at all the LEDs down to the switch box. Turned the engine and radio on. No LED noise (duh lol) but still has the same RPM engine noise (whine) on RX. Played with the squelch while on RX and still no difference. We don’t hear the engine noise AS MUCH with strong signals but it’s still there. But when the radio isn’t receiving and the squelch is turned down, nothing is heard until a received signal comes in. THEN the engine whine is heard.


The noise from the LEDS is gone with the grounds disconnected. RPM noise from engine still there.


The relay in the switch box (Code 3 Rockermax) can be heard as well. (Faintly. On/OFF, ON/OFF…)


Also there is a difference in the AMOUNT of 'whine' heard dependent on the FREQ... Very inconsistent.


Still pointing to alternator it seems so I figure it will not hurt to replace it and see what, if anything, changes.


*Also grounded the antennas from the hood/fender to the chassis in different areas, and have another FF making attempts at attaching the radio grounds at different areas to: 1.) Find the ground issue with the radios 2.) See if the RPM whine goes away. Have tried several, all the way into the engine compartment. Nothing changed. *

 

[bwheelz05]

UPDATE...


Well today a new alternator was installed.... nadda.. still having LED light feedback on Rx although the RPM dependent whine IS reduced and the high voltage reading on the gauge is normal now.


We have purchased two 20 AMP noise filters for the radios as we are still having LED noise and a little RPM noise over receive. (I know I'll catch flak for putting the filters in)


Any other sugestiongs? Will be playing around with the grounding locations on the lights next weekend... Mentioned to the fleet guys about grounding all the diferent areas of the truck with new straps and was told "NO".


Thanks for all the help

 

[kustomiser]

how far is the antenna from the light bar? it should be around 12"-18", also remove the antenna and check for a dirty center pin in the roof mount. if it is corroded that can cause the radio to pick up interference. the last thing i would do is run a new ground from the battery to the ground point as a test to see if there is a broken ground strap between the cab and the frame.

 

[bwheelz05]

No lightbar. Antennas are on seperate sides of the vehicle. We will be working on grounds next week

 

[bwheelz05]

UPDATE


Hi Everyone. So we installed the noise filter today and it didn’t do anything… I was quite surprised that it did N O T H I N G, I had hopes that a ‘Noise Filter’ would do the job but NOPE. What a waste of money…..


Found that in fact BOTH radios are grounding through the antennas… I fixed one antenna by isolating its mounting bracket with plastic… tried the same fix on the other one but the SWR was so terrible I had to change it back. So question is this… both antennas are lip mounting with specific hood mounts. I thought that there SUPPOSED to be metal to metal contact for the antenna to work?? But that’s what is grounding the radios… *(I.E, when ground wires disconnected, radios stay one. Disconnect the antennas, radios off. Fixed one antenna by isolating its mounts but couldn’t get the other to work without its reception sounding crappy)* Also changed the ground to the radios to another ground lug underneath the dash… no help.


So if my thought its correct in that the antennas need the metal to metal contact.. what’s the point if they ground the radio then? (“by passing the radios wiring ground”) Am I looking at this wrong? (Permanent mounting in the rood is not an option…) Should the antenna/mounting brackets be grounded additionally?


No more alternator whine since the alternator replacement a few weeks back but still have the LED noise on RX.


Found on HIGH power the VHF radio makes some LEDS act erratically (flash pattern pauses, or LEDs stop then turn out… bad grounding at LEDS?)


Could the LEDS not being properly grounded be the cause of the trouble? The ones on the hood are grounded to the front grill. (They are mounting behind the grill {the part that goes up with the hood… ya know ,a typical dodge hood} and mounted to the bolts that hold that piece in place. The side ones (intersection) have never been problematic; the rear ones are grounded to the body underneath…


I turned the high power (65W) to low (10W) and that worked great, it didn’t bother the LEDS at all… So another question. How to LED modules become affected? I am *assuming* its got to be through some sort of RF interference.. the antenna s are about 3 ½ feet from the front LEDs and about 11-12’ish feet away from the rear. (The side LEDS aren’t affected)


As always. thanks for the continued help!

 

[bwheelz05]

Also... The city shop wants to try grounding to the negative terminal..this is what the guy said in an email...


"Contrary to popular belief, the chassis of an automobile has more resistance than copper wire. While the voltage drop may be tolerable when using the chassis as a ground return in low current applications, it should be avoided. Here's why. As the current increases, the resulting voltage differential between factory-wiring chassis tie points, may cause a ground loop to occur between them thus corrupting on-board remote sensor readouts."


.......they say that connecting to the chassis induces ground-loop-feedback...., ?..


I believe the census here is NOT to connect to the battery negative correct?

 

[MtnMan]

So if my thought its correct in that the antennas need the metal to metal contact.. what’s the point if they ground the radio then? (“by passing the radios wiring ground”) Am I looking at this wrong?

You're correct that most antennas mounts do provide a ground point, and usually it shouldn't be a problem, as long as the antenna coax isn't the major ground path for the radio.

 

[MtnMan]

I believe the census here is NOT to connect to the battery negative correct?

I was the guy who suggested grounding to the battery negative, and got shouted down.


Your call, but what I'd do at this point, at least for diagnostic purposes, is run a heavy wire straight from the radio negative to the battery negative. If that eliminates the noise, at least you know what the root cause is, and you can work from there.

 

[bwheelz05]

OK folks.


All the grounds are direct to the batt negative. .. With a new common ground buss bar. Got rid of the chassis grounds and removed the fused ends on the ground wires. No go. Still have LED noise and RPM noise when the truck engine is ON. Although now we don't have any noise when its off.. which I guess is 50 percent better.... However that still doesn't solve the problem when the truck DRIVES!


ARRGGHHHHH


One of the guys suggested that the noise filter was wired in backwards and suggested the leads be switched... however odd that would be if the directions both on the filter itself and the manual were WRONG, but I don't want to risk hurting the radio or WORSE. DUH!


SO do I get a more EXPENSIVE brute force filter(also suggested)... It doesnt sound logical to spend more money on another filter when the first one didn't work. Could it be a crappy filter?


Should we just convince the chief to re-locate the antenna? *We will try different locations with temp antennas for testing*


*the SNM surface stars don't radiate any 'noise' though... or any we can hear... just the other LEDs*


The shop foreman told us to purchase a new truck! I told him to give us the money and we will.. what a crap statement. Jerk.


The Kenwood radio doesn't pick up either the LED or RPM noise. Its just the TYT9000 radio. COULD it be a crappy radio? Someone above mentioned that the TYT's are not that bad of radios... this is the first one we have had. Maybe its not built as well as the name brand radios (Moto, Kenwood,Vertex,Icom...)





Suggestions?





Thanks!

 

[MESDA6]

The manual I found online indicates that the power wires for this radio need to be isolated well away from the ignition system to eliminate interference. I have a feeling that this might be a common problem since the issue is so prominently noted in the manual.


One other issue I have found when dealing with some older radios is that the fuel pump also could generate a whining noise on the radio. Found this by turning the key to the ON position to prime the fuel pump without actually starting the vehicle, the radio picked up the noise from the fuel pump. It drove me crazy until we found it.

 

[bwheelz05]

Hi there ,


Well went out to the bay and turned the key, no noise. Turned the engine on.. NOISE!


The power wires go direct to a fuse block then direct to the positive batt terminal. Nothing in the entire setup is tied into the ignition.


Thinking maybe the radio is just a cheap Chinese, crap radio. Cannot isolate the power wires any farther away from the engine... This is a very frustrating problem. Going to try and play with the antennas here withing the next few days. Like I said previously, the other radio is a kenwood and it doesn't seem to be affected. Don't know if ferrite chokes would work. Was reading on other posts that folks went as far as choking ignition sources under the hood such as injectors and such.... argh..

 

[bwheelz05]

FYI... you make a good point though as if the MANUAL states multiple times to isolate the power wire.. maybe it is the radio its self. I am not a huge fan of Motos as they cannot be programmed by ones self ... = money that we just don't have, even researched the spectras (they can be found cheap) but it doesn't look like they can be field programmed (I had once thought so seeing the ones with the DTMF buttons and even the self contained microphone option) and can be very problematic. The remote head units are nice (and I would like to find a radio with remote mount that can be programmed in the field) but again, the hassle of having to pay for programming.


But yea, again good point on pointing out what it says in the manual.

 

[bwheelz05]

One more question.... you said it was your fuel pump that gave you problems.. curious, how did you solve it>?

 

[MESDA6]

One more question.... you said it was your fuel pump that gave you problems.. curious, how did you solve it>?

I'm thinking along the same lines as you and wondering if a less expensive radio like this can handle all of the electronics around it, especially in a Chief's vehicle with multiple radios, siren, lights, etc.


On the radios where I identified the fuel pump as the noise, we actually didn't address it any further. These were older radios that were not narrow band compatible, and we knew they would be replaced in the near future. In our case, they part of a "Go Pack" where the radio was in a bag with a mag mount and used when someone needed a radio in a POV during an incident.


I have a feeling that these radios may be fine in a POV for Ham or personal use, but in a Response Vehicle with other numerous electronics around it, I'm wondering if it's just not shielded enough to stop that interference. Sorry I'm not more help, but I think you are probably looking at a radio issue at this point, unless there is a piece of equipment like a battery charger, laptop, inverter or something else in the vehicle causing the interference, and those are things you would have to disconnect one by one to rule out.

 

[bwheelz05]

Hey no problem, thanks for the reply. Any help is appreciated so thank you!


We here are all thinking the same..., im looking at replacing the TYT radio with another.. vertex maybe. We have shyed away from Moto's due to the outrageous cost of programming and such.


No other real items in the vehicle besides the other vhf


Radio and switchbox..no laptop or inverter. We are gonna monkey around with radio next monday. I will make it a point to get some audio of the problem too.

 

[tvsjr]

I didn't realize the radio was a TYT - that could likely be an issue, combined with the Dodges which are noisy to start with.


You can program Motorola radios yourself no problem, you just need to buy software and cable. Same deal with Kenwood, Vertex, Icom, etc.

 

[bwheelz05]

Yes its a TYT ... beginning to think its garbage.


It was my understanding that purchasing the Moto software requires a contract commitment with Motorola that is hundreds of dollars and has to be renewed for the same expense. We simply do not have the funds to spend hundreds on software licenses and software program contracts.

 

[tvsjr]

Typically the software is $265 for a 3 year subscription. The cables vary - newer radios are cheaper than the old stuff (which required a RIB, etc.). Yes there's a contract involved, but it's a few pages to read and nothing too onerous. You can set up a Motorola Online account, call them, get the form signed and payment issued, and typically have access to the software within a day or two.

 

[Steve0625]

Yes its a TYT ... beginning to think its garbage.

It was my understanding that purchasing the Moto software requires a contract commitment with Motorola that is hundreds of dollars and has to be renewed for the same expense. We simply do not have the funds to spend hundreds on software licenses and software program contracts.

Not good to base your decisions on rumors or half truths. There's no "commitment contract" per se, but you do have purchase the software which can be several hundred dollars, but that is for a three year subscription. The account is free and pretty easy to establish, especially for a public agency. I got one for my town in just a couple of days. It took a bit more time to get our sales tax exemption squared away than it did to get the account going.


Now, honest question: How many dollars and hours have you spent screwing around with this TYT radio? How much time begging for help here on eLightbars? How much agony and heartbreak and frustration?


Yeah, my town has 600-700 bucks invested in two software packages and the necessary cables for three different types of radios; two mobile and one portable. We've saved nearly a thousand bucks beyond the purchase cost in programming already, and we're only in the second year of the program. Our Motorola mobiles are plug and play with no interference issues except for one small dump truck where they mounted the antenna right next to a cheapie warning light. But that's DPW guys for ya.


If I had been here for the initial purchases years ago, they would have stuck with one product line for all agencies and saved half of the programming cost by only needing one software package. But even with two (Commercial and Professional), the cost is reasonable and the whole thing is hassle free.


Edit to add: One other point about a Motorola account: You can also purchase accessories and parts at discounted prices as well as the software. I've bought a lot of bits and pieces from them at a substantial savings.


The initial expense isn't the only factor at work with these things. Sometimes more really is less.

 

[bwheelz05]

True, thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, I do not make the decision on purchases. Although my input is taken into consideration. I will print out the information you provided and let the boss make the deciding decision. Makes sense though.


Yes, the TYT is frustrating. Was not my intent to sound "beggy". Many helpful people here to bounce ideas or thoughts off of.


::Cost, well lets see; the alternator replacement, gas back and forth to the shop, (any one else have issues with county shops?) ground straps (new), misc wiring etc... , new grounding terminal (just a few bucks).. Hours? Probably around 36'ish total.::


It makes sense to me after you folks further clarified the approx cost with Moto as we do go thru pagers rather quickly so we buy replacement and spend the money having them programmed. .. so why not other Moto radios? Cost. But sure, the big picture (long run) looks cheaper ... good point!


The main topic was trying to figure out whats going on with this truck and its noise issues. I wonder what, in the end; Dodge is doing with these newer trucks. More than a few folks have told me now or agreed that the dodges' are noisy trucks. (Ford next time? Chevy?)


I would be curious to know how the design or difference in the electrical components or build of the TYT radio -VS- the Kenwood we have (or other name brands).


All the helpful suggestions have been followed as close as we can and I think we have eliminated most possible causes within reason. Just about time to put this thread 'to bed'. lol


We will be changing antennas and locations temporarily this week to try and weed-out the antenna as an issue. Looking at changing radios too.... (I also will be trying to get audio of the issue to post too!