Updated with pics. Installers please look here!

ryan

ryan

Premium Member
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May 20, 2010
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Massillon, Ohio
One of my contracts has some cruisers that were built by another firm in my area. The other day I received a call that one of their explorers was down due to a "smell of plastic and the light bar dimming.


I got there and discovered the 60 amp maxi fuse has melted into the fuse holder, the 8ga. red wire has turned black and is brittle and terminates into a 10ga. wire to a rear solenoid.


Now here is the tricky part. I worked for this company a few years back but this was prior to these vehicles. And now I am charged with getting this vehicle back up, running and to call my old job and get them to either fix it correctly 2 years later, or pay me to fix this mess.


Here is the equipment that was wired into the 60 amp maxi fuse and 10ga. wire.


1-fedsig vista strobe bar. 5 front and 5 rear strobes, front and rear flashers t/d's and alleys.


1-fedsig smart siren


1-Icop mobile video system


1-Stalker dual radar system


1-Motorola cdm1250


1-Motorola cm300


1-pr3500 portable radio charger


What is every ones thoughts as to how they did the amp figuration and decided to use 60amp maxi fuse and 10ga. wire?


P.S. They have another explorer that only has a 40 amp maxi fuse in it, the start of blackened fuse holder, but I recently mounted an LED bar to this.


http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v660/fdny5555/Vehicle%20Solutions%20Installations/MagESST%20installations/?albumview=slideshow
 
Last edited by a moderator:
First off. The bar should really be grounded and get power directly at the battery with its own fuse. Its drawing close to 28 amps by itself. Maybe 35 with everything on.


Secondly, I would not have the radios running off of the same circuit as a strobe lightbar, especially a vista with EMI leaking PSs. Could cause interference at some point. Id check all of the grounds for the equipment and make sure they were hooked up properly.


Simply put, THEN DID NOT DO an Amp calculation. I think the guy there said "hmm, 60 amp maxi fuse looks big, so maybe it big 'nuff to work!"


Then on the other explorer, he said "hmm, 40 amp all i have, maybe big 'nuff to work!"


That rig needs at least two leads running to the battery. One for the bar, and one for everything else, or an additional lead for the radios separately. Then run them to a fuse panel for proper distribution. Id also run a ground from the battery directly to the two radios, just to prevent electrical noise.


They obviously did not do their homework on this one. 10 gauge wire will not hold all of that load at once, especially when its running all the way from the battery to a rear mounted solenoid. Stupidity. Plain and simple.
 
Well the lightbar does have one 10ga. ground but it has several turn on leads, the front and rear strobe leads are recommended fused at 15amps each, the t/d are to be fused at 15amps, and the front and rear flashers are to be fused at 10 amps each and alleys at 8 amps each. So for a normal traffic stop this alone in code 3 would be 49amps per wire and fuse at 125%max draw.


Here is what I came up with and my solution:


Light bar 56 amps totally on


Siren 15 amps


radios and charger 24 amps total each keyed up


icop and stalker 27 amps on.


122 total used amps.


I would run 4ga. from battery to 150amp an. reset circuit breaker, then to continuous duty 200 amp solenoid. 4ga to rear blue sea 12 spot distribution block with ground side. then the appropriate fuse to each item.
 
I agree with Wireking, the light bar should be on its own circuit but with 8 gauge wires to the switch panel. The only other thing attached to this would be the siren. The radios and video should be on one circuit, the portible radio charger on one circuit and the radar on one circuit all with a minimum of 10 gauge wires or equivilant to the main power feed, all should be fused seperatly. The main fuse panel used should have at minimum of 0 or 00 gauge primary battery cable feed to carry the amperage. This way it exxceeds the draw from the battery. Don Myhre
 
Ryan,


I would be more concerned with the liability standpoint if you worked on the vehicle at all and later down the road, there may be a 3-way finger pointing game when things really go south with the vehicle (major malfunction, fire, quality work, etc). If you can cover yourself in this aspect with proper documentation, then it's a matter of putting your best face forward with regards to your decision to please all parties, including yourself in terms of making a living.
 
So new info, They have 2 of these explorers. one built in 2008 one in 2009. 2008 built at shop A, 2009 built at shop B of the same company.


We advised them of the issues and they basically came to the conclusion of a bad batch of inline maxi fuse holders. They want to have the manufacturer of the fuse holders warranty the 2 holders and they want to replace them. This is still not fixing the reason why the holders got hot, melted the fuse and holder,


Discuss...
 
First, I'd pull up specs on the fuse holders (if any) and determine how much draw it's designed for. You (or they) may need to contact the mfg to get that info. Compare with actual draw on the vehicles and go from there. You could ask me (or anyone else) how power should be routed accordingly but that's another thread, another day.
 
I would either replace the whole system or stay clear of the job.... putting back together someone else s dangerous system is a liability you don't need.
 
Update, The company who originally installed the equipment came to look at what was going on with the 2 explorers. They said that they called the manufacturer of the fuse holder who stated that there was too many amps running through their holders. "no shit earl".


The company decided they are going to use my advise and install man. reset circuit breakers. They however did not say anything about replacing the 10awg. power wire from the engine compartment to the rear of the explorer. When the chief asked the company if they were going to refund the Twp. of the charge I had to temporarily fix the system to get it back on the road, they said they are giving them $400 worth of service and they won't pay them back for what I did.
 
It doesn't look like that meter will work for measuring the draw of amps on the system. Usually the non-contact meters will only work for AC, due to the magnetic fields created by the alternating currents. DC meters usually have to be a contact style to measure amps, meaning put the meter in line with the system.


Now for measuring voltage then they say they will work.


That's my understanding of the clamp on styles.


Paul
 
blackcherryxj said:
It doesn't look like that meter will work for measuring the draw of amps on the system. Usually the non-contact meters will only work for AC, due to the magnetic fields created by the alternating currents. DC meters usually have to be a contact style to measure amps, meaning put the meter in line with the system.

Now for measuring voltage then they say they will work.


That's my understanding of the clamp on styles.


Paul
Click to expand...

On the contrary, there are DC clamp meters. I have them and they work very well.
 
I just took a closer look at Ryan's purchase and it turns out it's not the correct meter. It will not measure DC amperages via the clamp, only AC.


If you look here, there are several that are AC amp meters only but there are a few AC and DC clamp meters that will measure amperage.


http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/clampmeter.htm


AC & DC amp metering capable.


http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/DT6930f.htm


http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/MS2138Rf.htm


http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/MS2108f.htm


I should have paid more attention to it, sorry folks.
 
So the funniest thing happened today, I went to sears and bought the one that was recommended. When I got home I looked at the meter I had one on ebay. The pic didnt match the model number.


After reviewing the part number I actually got a $110 meter for $50. It will do ac/dc current (amperage draw). So the new one I bought is going back to sears Sunday.
 
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ryan said:
So the funniest thing happened today, I went to sears and bought the one that was recommended. When I got home I looked at the meter I had one on ebay. The pic didnt match the model number.

After reviewing the part number I actually got a $110 meter for $50. It will do ac/dc current (amperage draw). So the new one I bought is going back to sears Sunday.
Click to expand...

Lucky break!! :D
 
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