What the heck is wrong with people in NYC?

AdaFire38

Member
May 16, 2010
148
Lowell, MI
NYPD suspends cop accused of not aiding dying girl


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100901/ap_ ... thma_death

AP said:
NEW YORK – A police officer accused of not helping an 11-year-old girl dying of an asthma attack has been suspended without pay.

Brooklyn mother Carmen Ojeda was driving her daughter, Briana, to a hospital on Friday when she turned the wrong way down a one-way street and crashed her car. She claims the officer at the scene said he didn't know CPR and couldn't help the girl, who died soon after.


"I asked him to help me," Ojeda said. "'My daughter is dying. My daughter can't breath. She needs mouth to mouth.' And he said, 'I don't know CPR.'"


The police department said Tuesday it located the officer, Alfonso Mendez, by showing photographs of staff to witnesses.


Mendez, 30, was suspended pending further investigation. He could face departmental charges of failing to act.


All officers are trained in CPR at the police academy.


Before the officer was identified, Ojeda had pleaded publicly for him to come forward.


"I want nothing from you or anybody else, I just want an apology," Ojeda cried. "Give my daughter peace ... and say, 'I'm sorry.'"


The Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, a police union, doesn't comment in cases like this, spokesman Al O'Leary said. A phone number listed under the officer's name doesn't accept incoming calls, and the officer couldn't be reached for comment Tuesday.


Briana's funeral was scheduled for Wednesday.

How lazy can you be?
 

dustymedic

Member
May 21, 2010
633
Columbus,OH
Does the department provide CPR masks to officers? I stopped doing mouth to mouth 20 years ago. Unless it's my wife or child, it's not gonna happen..
 

rangerbob

Member
May 25, 2010
101
Maryland
Rescue breathing only helps if the airway is open. If he airway has swollen shut or the broncioles are too inflamed nothing he could have done would have helped.
 

RJ*

Member
May 21, 2010
346
Finland
The officer's (in)action does make the department look stupid... but if the mother has a child who might need CPR, why has she not learnt it herself?
 

tnems7

Member
May 21, 2010
407
USA Nashville Tennessee
The situation was not managed properly . . . period! He could have resorted to chest compressions only. Or, Dispatchers could have told the mother how to do CPR and the instructions could have been relayed by the officer while EMS was called. And if a police vehicle was available to the officer for transport to the hospital, that could have been arranged.


Common sense in Anywhere America seems to be missing in NYC, whether it's parents or police officers?
 

Klein

Member
May 22, 2010
966
Texas
rangerbob said:
Rescue breathing only helps if the airway is open. If he airway has swollen shut or the broncioles are too inflamed nothing he could have done would have helped.

Mother should have know CPR.


and officer is just a POS.
 

rick h.

Member
May 21, 2010
1,377
Green Bank WV.
there was a study just published concerning CPR where it is highly recommened that just chest compressions be done on a patient instead of both mouth to mouth and compressions The study supposely supported that more people survived with just chest compressions. As for the Officer I was not there but imho he should have at least did compressions . I do not know about NY But I have to get recertified every year for the D.O.C. in CPR and First Aid even though I do not work EMS anymore I think everyone should have training as it could be a loved one that needs you
 

Klein

Member
May 22, 2010
966
Texas
rick h. said:
there was a study just published concerning CPR where it is highly recommened that just chest compressions be done on a patient instead of both mouth to mouth and compressions The study supposely supported that more people survived with just chest compressions. As for the Officer I was not there but imho he should have at least did compressions . I do not know about NY But I have to get recertified every year for the D.O.C. in CPR and First Aid even though I do not work EMS anymore I think everyone should have training as it could be a loved one that needs you

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3664 :cool:
 

ISU_Cyclone

Member
May 21, 2010
1,447
SE Wisconsin, USA
rangerbob said:
Rescue breathing only helps if the airway is open. If he airway has swollen shut or the broncioles are too inflamed nothing he could have done would have helped.

Whoa, not true at all. First of all, he didn't even try, so you wouldn't know the status of the airway anyways. Secondly, doing chest compressions to keep circulating blood and residual oxygen to the brain and other organs sure would have helped. Do that until EMS arrives and can attemot an advanced airway. It isn't rescue breathing or nothing at all!
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
FAIL... not really sure what else to say. If he doesn't want to do what he's paid to do, help, then he doesn't need the job very bad.
 

rangerbob

Member
May 25, 2010
101
Maryland
Wow - you guys really need to go back and recert CPR. I just completed my certification as an AHA CPR Instructor so here we go:


No where in the article does it mention that she was in cardiac arrest! Unless the PT is in cardiac arrest, or a child has a pulse rate of lower than 60bpm, chest compressions should NOT be done. Most children go into cardiac arrest due to respiratory arrest. Therefore supporting her breathing was the MOST PROBABLE necessity. HOWEVER, she was reported to be suffering an asthma attack which degrades the ability of the respiratory system to function. Proper treatment for this either albuterol or intubation if severe enough.


You tell me that the officer has either albuterol or the skill and means to drop an ET tube? Additionally, the article does NOT state if he refused to complete an assessment or if he merely did not act. So before you guys go jumping on this guy - why don't you wait for the investigation to complete.
 

Stendec

Member
May 21, 2010
816
rangerbob said:
So before you guys go jumping on this guy - why don't you wait for the investigation to complete.

But that takes all the fun out of it, you know, getting "facts" and all, when we can rely on the never-wrong, always fair and balanced media :(
 

hitman38367

Member
May 23, 2010
881
West Tennessee, USA
My question is this. If the mother knew her daughter had asthma and knew she was prone to having an attack whether it be mild or severe, why in hell did she not at least have an Epi-pen AND know Rescue breathing/CPR as a just in case??? The officer should have done everything in his power to help the child but the mother should have been VERY prepared for anything since she knew the child had asthma. Both individuals are a FAIL in my opinion.
 

NPS Ranger

Member
May 21, 2010
1,990
Penn's Woods
Klein said:
An Epi-Pen serves no purpose on an asthma attack.

Although epinephrine has been superseded in most ALS protocols by albuterol and other drugs, SQ epinephrine was a first-line ER drug for asthma for decades. "Primatene Mist" available OTC is an epinephrine metered dose inhaler. Some ALS protocols still recommend use of Epi-Pen for status asthmaticus.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
11,043
Northwest Ohio
rangerbob said:
Wow - you guys really need to go back and recert CPR. I just completed my certification as an AHA CPR Instructor so here we go:

No where in the article does it mention that she was in cardiac arrest! Unless the PT is in cardiac arrest, or a child has a pulse rate of lower than 60bpm, chest compressions should NOT be done. Most children go into cardiac arrest due to respiratory arrest. Therefore supporting her breathing was the MOST PROBABLE necessity. HOWEVER, she was reported to be suffering an asthma attack which degrades the ability of the respiratory system to function. Proper treatment for this either albuterol or intubation if severe enough.


You tell me that the officer has either albuterol or the skill and means to drop an ET tube? Additionally, the article does NOT state if he refused to complete an assessment or if he merely did not act. So before you guys go jumping on this guy - why don't you wait for the investigation to complete.



The bottom line is none of us know if there was any aid the officer could have rendered at all. I had a call once where a pt was trapped under an very unstable vehicle, we beat fire on scene but I couldn't do anything directly to/for the pt because I couldn't safely access him. The bystanders called and complained, said we just stood there and told them it wasn't our problem. Of course what we really told them was that we can't help the person until fire secures the car. We readied our equipment, notified the hospital and surveyed the scene further.... hardly just standing there. People have skewed perception at the scene of an emergency. The officer may have told the woman he isn't equipped to help the child further but what she heard is "I don't know CPR." This is a crazed mother frantically driving her kid around intead of staying put and calling for aid. Everyone needs to take a step back and ask them selves... "Have my actions at a scene ever been totally misunderstood by the public? Do I really know what happened on this scene?"
 

hitman38367

Member
May 23, 2010
881
West Tennessee, USA
NPS Ranger said:
Although epinephrine has been superseded in most ALS protocols by albuterol and other drugs, SQ epinephrine was a first-line ER drug for asthma for decades. "Primatene Mist" available OTC is an epinephrine metered dose inhaler. Some ALS protocols still recommend use of Epi-Pen for status asthmaticus.

Exactly. The main reason I even mentioned an Epi-pen is because I recently dated a woman that has asthma and has had it since childhood and she carries an Epi-pen everywhere she goes PER her MD's orders.
 
May 22, 2010
153
MI, USofA
rangerbob said:
Wow - you guys really need to go back and recert CPR. I just completed my certification as an AHA CPR Instructor so here we go:

No where in the article does it mention that she was in cardiac arrest! Unless the PT is in cardiac arrest, or a child has a pulse rate of lower than 60bpm, chest compressions should NOT be done. Most children go into cardiac arrest due to respiratory arrest. Therefore supporting her breathing was the MOST PROBABLE necessity. HOWEVER, she was reported to be suffering an asthma attack which degrades the ability of the respiratory system to function. Proper treatment for this either albuterol or intubation if severe enough.


You tell me that the officer has either albuterol or the skill and means to drop an ET tube? Additionally, the article does NOT state if he refused to complete an assessment or if he merely did not act. So before you guys go jumping on this guy - why don't you wait for the investigation to complete.


but here is the info we DO have ...

"'My daughter is dying. My daughter can't breathe. She needs mouth to mouth.' And he said, 'I don't know CPR.'" ... All officers are trained in CPR at the police academy.

JohnMarcson said:
The bottom line is none of us know if there was any aid the officer could have rendered at all. I had a call once where a pt was trapped under an very unstable vehicle, we beat fire on scene but I couldn't do anything directly to/for the pt because I couldn't safely access him. The bystanders called and complained, said we just stood there and told them it wasn't our problem. Of course what we really told them was that we can't help the person until fire secures the car. We readied our equipment, notified the hospital and surveyed the scene further.... hardly just standing there. People have skewed perception at the scene of an emergency. The officer may have told the woman he isn't equipped to help the child further but what she heard is "I don't know CPR." This is a crazed mother frantically driving her kid around intead of staying put and calling for aid. Everyone needs to take a step back and ask them selves... "Have my actions at a scene ever been totally misunderstood by the public? Do I really know what happened on this scene?"


Valid point, context is crucial, but if she said "she needs mouth to mouth" and he said "I can't" (in any fashion), the question is raised "Why?" Did he assess that the situation could not be helped by simple mouth to mouth (which is taught in CPR, andhe shouldhave known from the academy if nothing else)? or did he simply "freeze" and become unable to remember/act? (and let's face it, any one os us could at some point find ourselves there, but still raises questions concerning ability to perform the job in the future) or did he choose not to get involved? at which point he violated a legal duty to act in at least some fashion as a paid emergency professional, and the moral duty to act as a human being. The investigation hopefully will reveal the reality, but it certainly raises flags, especially after the EMT thing a few months ago ...
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
11,043
Northwest Ohio

"Mick (firewolf)" [QUOTE] The bottom line is none of us know if there was any aid the officer could have rendered at all. I had a call once where a pt was trapped under an very unstable vehicle said:
Valid point, context is crucial, but if she said "she needs mouth to mouth" and he said "I can't" (in any fashion), the question is raised "Why?" Did he assess that the situation could not be helped by simple mouth to mouth (which is taught in CPR, andhe shouldhave known from the academy if nothing else)? or did he simply "freeze" and become unable to remember/act? (and let's face it, any one os us could at some point find ourselves there, but still raises questions concerning ability to perform the job in the future) or did he choose not to get involved? at which point he violated a legal duty to act in at least some fashion as a paid emergency professional, and the moral duty to act as a human being. The investigation hopefully will reveal the reality, but it certainly raises flags, especially after the EMT thing a few months ago ...


If the quote is correct... and that's a big if... he shouldn't of said that. The situation souds bad and raises red flags... but on both sides. The mother's version seems questionable considering her other actions. I'm just saying before people get all over this officer we should remember that the reality may be a very different from what was reported.
 
May 22, 2010
153
MI, USofA
JohnMarcson said:
The situation souds bad and raises red flags... but on both sides. The mother's version seems questionable considering her other actions. I'm just saying before people get all over this officer we should remember that the reality may be a very different from what was reported.


very true
 

Mike L.

Member
May 21, 2010
261
Everett, WA
I am wondering how many people on this board actually remember their medical training? It seems after reading this thread that not many do. Now I am not an EMT or medic, however I am first aid trained (First Aid for the Professional Rescuer by the AHA is our course). Seems to me there is a little thing that was taught in my class called the ABC's. I dunno, maybe because I am not an EMT and don't have any access to that fancy equipment...but it seems to me that you need to establish an Airway before you can establish Breathing before you can establish Circulation.


I go on aid calls every day accompanying our fire dept and I have seen paitients in respritory distress. If this child was indeed suffering from a severe asthmatic attack there is nothing that officer could have done. I don't carry anything on my gun belt to assist a paitient in that condition with the exception of a radio to call for help. Nor do I have the training to do so. If a head tilt - jaw thrust will not clear the airway then it is beyond my capabilities. Unless that officer was ESU, I seriously doubt he had the training or equipment to assist in that situation.


Seems to me a lot of people, especially TheZach, are villifying this officer based solely on media reports and without obtaining first hand information. More than likely there is more to this story that the media has failed to disclose. But hey what do I know, I am just a person who has been in similiar situations in the past. From first hand expierience it is terrifying to see someone in distress and know that you can't do anything to help them.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
11,043
Northwest Ohio
Mike L. said:
More than likely there is more to this story that the media has failed to disclose.

My point exactly
 

UndercoverVLS

Member
Jun 1, 2010
337
NY
There is a ton of information that the media, at least this article, didn't disclose. The officer, even while out of his jurisdiction, did affect a car stop on a reckless driver going the wrong way down a one way street. Apparently when he approached the car, the girl was having an asthma attack. Word is going around that the officer actually stated, "I cannot give CPR", which last time I checked, if someone is actually breathing, you cant. And shown on security cameras, the officer did provide a lights and sirens escort to the hospital. Unfortunately, the girl did die I believe 2 days later. And the latest I've heard was that doctors stated the officers alleged inactions did/would not have a direct impact on the girls condition. The only thing different that he may have done was call for a Bus and leave it at that. But in NYC you may wait for a while for one depending on the day. In the NYPD you will be suspended/modified for almost any type of incident where there are allegations or where it becomes high profile. Especially if the person dies.


So before anyone is labeled as a scumbag or a POS, you need all the facts first. We will see what the outcome is..
 

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