What was the big speaker light that KY State Police used in the 80's?

AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
Does anyone know what the exact beacon that Kentucky State Police used in the 80's?


I remember that the ones I saw had a speaker base and it seemed like a flat top.


I would like to find one for my collection.
 

AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
They looked identical to that whelen speaker light. It wasnt the 184. I cant remember if it was strobe or had sealed beams in them. Anyone else know?


The last time I seen one was on a 84-86 crown vic
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
AshSkip said:
They looked identical to that whelen speaker light. It wasnt the 184. I cant remember if it was strobe or had sealed beams in them. Anyone else know?
The last time I seen one was on a 84-86 crown vic

Kentucky State police used a variety of Whelen products in the 80's including:


994-PA 4-bulb rotating beacon/siren speaker (looked just like the 5200-PA except w/o the optic "fins" on the inside of the dome)


5200-PA "Commander" strobe beacon/siren speaker


5300-PA ("Vader" light) strobe beacon w/intergral takedowns/siren speaker


8000 Series strobe bar w/siren speaker.


The book "CARS OF THE STATE POLICE AND HIGHWAY PATROL" have several pics from the eighties illustrating that. One pic shows an '80 Dodge St. Regis and '81 LTD "S" (it is mislabled as a '79... anyone who knows the differences between the years can attest to this), both white and both sporting 5200-PA's. They also have a pic of a white '83-'87 LTD/Crown Victoria sporting an 8000 series lightbar and an '83-'87 dark grey LTD/Crown Victoria (not sure when they changed colors) with a 994-PA. I'm including two pics I've located showing an early-mid eighties white Impala with a 5200-PA and a dark grey '88-'91 LTD/Crown Victoria with the fabled "Darth Vader" 5300-PA. The last pic shows the more current "slicktops" they utilize in yet another color, their 60th Anniversary paint scheme. IIRC their "regular" color is a light metallic silver now (photo credit 1= unknown, 2= Jonathon McChesney, 3 = unknown) .


KYSP Impala.jpg


KYSP LTD Crown Victoria.jpg

KYSP Crown Vic.jpg
 
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AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
Thanks alot for those pics. I would like to find a light simular to what KSP used in 84-87ish or somewhere close. Preferably a speaker light.
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
The bottom pic, though small, is an '81 or '82 LTD "S" and it's definately either a 5200-PA or 994-PA on the roof (too small to see if that's an "optic" dome or if there are bulbs beneath it... increasing the image size just made it more blurry). I'd bet it was a 5200-PA though as the similar pic I saw of an '81 LTD "S" had that type on it.


I'd say if you were doing and '84-'87 KSP cruiser with a single beacon (and not a bar), it would definately be an LTD/Crown Victoria, with either a Whelen 5200-PA or 994-PA. Color-wise? I don't know when they made the change, whether it was after their '83 purchases or with their '87's or anytime in between. You might want to go to the source... KSP fleet, and find out when they changed their cruisers from white to dark grey and what particular light was used when. Like I said above, I've seen the '83-'87 LTD/Crown Victoria body style (which was identcal each year) in either color in different pictures. The white car had a 5200-PA and the dark grey had a 994-PA. Remember, though, they may have also used both types of lights concurrently, so either may be appropriate for the era you want to replicate.
 
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AshSkip said:
Anyone else have Kentucky State Police pics? Preferably 50's-early 90's? I found these earlier

KSP used the Whelen strobes after the TwinSonic as a cost cutting move; they also dropped the dark blue hood and trunk paint.


Check this site for lots of good photos: Kentucky State Police Remembered


It has the photo of Trooper Wilcox and his '57 Chevy 150. I used them to build my 1/24th model "Black Widow":


http://elightbars.org/forums/images/styles/GamerBlue/attach/jpg.gif


The Testor's Decal Kit does a lousy job, so I'll have to redo with photo paper. Under the (model) hood is the mighty 318 ci with 4bbl, but I doubt KSP had anything larger that the Blue Flame 6. Also includes period correct 2-way Motorola and siren. The spotlight and handle passes through the dash like in the real version. Needs a few more touches like the whip antenna and door handles.


My therapy.... ;-)

IMG_0474.jpg
 

AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
Sarge619 said:
The bottom pic, though small, is an '81 or '82 LTD "S" and it's definately either a 5200-PA or 994-PA on the roof (too small to see if that's an "optic" dome or if there are bulbs beneath it... increasing the image size just made it more blurry). I'd bet it was a 5200-PA though as the similar pic I saw of an '81 LTD "S" had that type on it.

I'd say if you were doing and '84-'87 KSP cruiser with a single beacon (and not a bar), it would definately be an LTD/Crown Victoria, with either a Whelen 5200-PA or 994-PA. Color-wise? I don't know when they made the change, whether it was after their '83 purchases or with their '87's or anytime in between. You might want to go to the source... KSP fleet, and find out when they changed their cruisers from white to dark grey and what particular light was used when. Like I said above, I've seen the '83-'87 LTD/Crown Victoria body style (which was identcal each year) in either color in different pictures. The white car had a 5200-PA and the dark grey had a 994-PA. Remember, though, they may have also used both types of lights concurrently, so either may be appropriate for the era you want to replicate.

The ones I saw in the early 80's were always blue
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
AshSkip said:
The ones I saw in the early 80's were always blue

Are you talking about the color of the lights or the cars? If it's the lights, then yes, I know they've used blue for several decades now whether it was FS Model beacons (I've seen pics of KSP Fords from the early 70's with what appeared to be a single model 11 or 14 in the center of the roof), TwinSonics bars, or the Whelen products they utilized.


I was referring to the color change of the cars themselves.... from the late 70's/early 80's plain white with the diagonal blue stripe, then later '80's dark grey with the diagonal blue stripe, then to silver with the diagonal blue stripe... etc.
 

AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
Sarge619 said:
Are you talking about the color of the lights or the cars? If it's the lights, then yes, I know they've used blue for several decades now whether it was FS Model beacons (I've seen pics of KSP Fords from the early 70's with what appeared to be a single model 11 or 14 in the center of the roof), TwinSonics bars, or the Whelen products they utilized.

I was referring to the color change of the cars themselves.... from the late 70's/early 80's plain white with the diagonal blue stripe, then later '80's dark grey with the diagonal blue stripe, then to silver with the diagonal blue stripe... etc.

Oh sorry, I misear that. I meant lights
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
patrol530 said:
Sireno & Yankee both had speaker light combos.

True (and also Dietz too), however neither looks remotely like any of the Whelen 5200-PA "Commander" or 994-PA speaker/light combos (although I will admit the Sireno product had a passing resemblance to the older Whelen 5000-PA "Commander") .


(credit to original photgraphers/posters)


Sireno


SIRENO Speaker-Light.jpg


Dietz


Dietz 235 Speaker Light (3).jpg


And if I'm not mistaken, neither the Sireno Speaker-Light or Dietz Model 235 were available in the eighties. The Yankee I'm not so sure of. It might have still been produced then. The lights he's looking for though are the following - with blue domes, of course:


5200-PA (photo credit Ford Dealer)


Whelen Commander 5200-PA (2).jpg


994-PA (photo credit unknown)


Whelen 994-PA newer style skirt (a).jpg
 
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AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
Im pretty sure it was that whelen pa light. Anyone know if they used strobe or sealed beam? Where can I find one like they used for sale or trade
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
AshSkip said:
Im pretty sure it was that whelen pa light. Anyone know if they used strobe or sealed beam? Where can I find one like they used for sale or trade


They used BOTH versions Skip, the strobe and sealed beam versions of the Whelen speaker/light, as already mentioned It will probably depend on which year car you choose to replicate to determine exactly which light to choose. I'd say if your're looking to replicate an '84-'87, then you're probably looking at a dark grey Ford LTD/Crown Victoria with the halogen 994-PA on the roof. But, I'll recommend this again... call the KSP, talk to their public relations people, they can probably hook you up with someone in the Fleet Section who might have the definitive answer. Best course is to go to the source.


It looks like in the early 80's (white cars), they used the 5200-PA strobe version. In the mid-'80's (dark grey cars) they used the sealed beam 994-PA and on late-80's to early-'90's cars the 5300-PA strobe "Vader Light" was used as well. I don't know if it replaced the 994-PA or if only some cruisers got them and not the entire fleet. Again, it will depend what year you replicate. The KSP website does not state specifically what year they changed from white to "Kentucky State Police Grey" cars, only that it was in the '80's. One thing's for sure from photographic evidence I've seen based on LTD/Crown Victorias of theirs.... it happened AFTER 1983 but BEFORE 1988. As stated before, I've seen the '83-'87 style Fords (virtually identical in outward appearance all five model years) in BOTH colors. The '88-'91's (virtuallly identical in outward appearance all four model years) had a slight style change in the nose and tail but was basically the same car. By then however, the change had been made to grey.


These are NOT easy lights to find and collectors are not quick to part with them as they are highly desirable. Some notable members here on ELB have some very enviable collections of 5200-PA's and 994-PA's (I know I"M envious! :D ), but you seldom see them offering them up for sale as most want to keep them. Of course if you have something rare or valuable to trade you might convince one of them..... :D ;)


If you wanted to buy a brand new one and have $700 to burn..... Whelen Strobe II Model 5200-PA (U0433)- Fenton Fire - Used Fire Trucks - We sell quality pre-owned fire engines, tankers, ladders, rescues, ambulances, quints in USA, Canada and beyond.
 
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Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
ny04350 said:
Here's a surviving Yankee version with a NOS dome. It also comes with a snap-on screen to cover the speaker holes.

First, my apologies to patrol530, you did specified Sireno and Yankee in your reply. Like a dummy, I posted pics of the Sireno and Dietz. Duh. I did know what you were referring to. I modified my original reply to reflect this.


ny04350, thanks for posting that pic so we could see what the Yankee speaker/light looked like too. I had never had found a pic of the Yankee version (should've searched the forums here 'cause you had posted this light when you got it)! Now I've got one for my hard-drive archive.


My bet (and it's only a guess) is that little gem is probably alot harder to find than a 5200-PA, even a 5000-PA for that matter. I don't think I've ever seen one listed anywhere. Basically looks kinda like a model 354 dropped atop a BIG speaker housing. Any idea how long they were made?
 
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Rough history of KSP cars: From the start (1948), KSP cars were black with gold stripe (to distinguish from their predecessor organization--KY Highway Patrol--which were white). In the late '50s, the cars were "air conditioned" with white roofs. Up to 1956, the lights were "bee hive" lights (sometimes two) on the roof or simply single sided flashers mounted on the front fenders. 1956 and later, KSP went to the FS 17 with red dome. In the mid '60s in a effort to distinguish themselves from local constabulary, KSP went to blue domes. When local PD and SO went to blue, KSP tried to block them but lost. (Thus, all LEOs in KY were all blue until the '90s). To further distinguish KSP from locals, they switched to grey cars: it matched the uniform, and it was argued the grey cars tend to blend in traffic thus making it easier to apprehend wrongdoers...I kid you not.) Almost all cars were equipped with a FS 17 and a FS 28 or C4 under the hood, but the garages would try different equipment from time to time. Toward the end of the '60s, the FS 14 was selected as it looked more modern (and it was easier to maintain).


Then in the '70s the KSP entered the 20th century! With the introduction of the FS model 12 Twin Sonic, KSP was all in! The cars were white with blue hoods and trunk lid and a FS model 12 (later 12X and 12F) with PA 15s and 20s. I was in college at this time and made my "beer money" installing lights & sirens on the local PD cars (they got new Fords and new gear every year--EVERY year--with the latest/greatest lights FedSig made. It was a blast.)


But the KSP was always looking for ways to save cash. So by the '80s, new cars weren't painted and remained all white. The FS 12 proved to be difficult to maintain and remount, and they were expensive, so the 14 saw service again but most were the new strobes. At first, many were the "Vader" light with the take-down lights, but the extra cost was hard to justify (besides, all patrol cars had spotlights). Most were standard Whelen speaker/strobes with a rear flash option (it's possible there were the occasional rotators, but I only saw strobes in use). As to what years the strobes were used, just ask one of our resident experts as to when the models were in production. I moved to the East Coast in '85 and it was about then the cars were switched to grey again (the white cars required frequent washing--another cost saving move).


There ya go...too much info, but a fun jog down memory lane.
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
GREAT history lesson on the KSP fleet! Thanks for the info!


There ya go Skip... I'd say for the time period you're looking at ('84 thru '87), you could do one of two cars:


1) '83/'84 WHITE Ford LTD/Crown Victoria (the 85's - '87's had the high-mounted third brake light, so if you're super-detail-oriented you wouldn't want those years) with a Whelen 5200-PA strobe speaker-light or;


2) '85-'87 GREY Ford LTD/Crown Victoria with either a Whelen 5200-PA strobe speaker-light or Whelen 994-PA halogen speaker-light (both appropriate for the period - wish I had a scanner so I could post that pic of the '85-'87 LTD/Crown Victoria with the 994-PA on it from "CARS OF THE STATE POLICE AND HIGHWAY PATROL" book for you to show these were used as well as the strobe version, but unfortunately, I don't. If you ever locate a copy of the book it's the center photo on page 111).
 
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AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
Sarge619 said:
GREAT history lesson on the KSP fleet! Thanks for the info!

There ya go Skip... I'd say for the time period you're looking at ('84 thru '87), you could one of two cars:


1) '83/'84 WHITE Ford LTD/Crown Victoria (the 85's - '87's had the high-mounted third brake light, so if you're super-detail-oriented you wouldn't want those years) with a Whelen 5200-PA strobe speaker-light or;


2) '85-'87 GREY Ford LTD/Crown Victoria with either a Whelen 5200-PA strobe speaker-light or Whelen 994-PA halogen speaker-light (both appropriate for the period - wish I had a scanner so I could post that pic of the '85-'87 LTD/Crown Victoria with the 994-PA on it from "CARS OF THE STATE POLICE AND HIGHWAY PATROL" book for you to show these were used as well as the strobe version, but unfortunately, I don't. If you ever locate a copy of the book the center photo on page 111).

I have a chance to buy a true 1985 ksp ford ltd. I can get the car very reasonably. This is grey. It is a origional KSP car. I origionally just wanted a light but I am seriously considering buying this car. it is in pretty good shape and runs great. Although I would restore the car. I would really like a period correct light. I doubt I will mount it or even put stripes on the car, but who knows, someday I may decide to make a parade car or something (if I can okay it with ksp)
 

AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
I also remember seeing some caprices after they switched to grey. Some were the box style and later on they had some of the bubble style caprices. I personally knew a trooper that drove a slick top bubble style caprice. I also remember seeing a few ssp mustangs, and not long ago some camaro's.


I wonder what KSP will do without the crown vic. I saw very few caprices in the 90's and have ONLY seen crown vics since (other than suv's and special service cars)


I have never seen a ksp impala or charger (not saying they didnt use them, just that I never seen them)


It seems that crown vics were the work horse of ksp for the last many years. I am just anxious to see what is to come in the near future when they start replacing the vics (if they havent already)
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
AshSkip said:
I also remember seeing some caprices after they switched to grey. Some were the box style and later on they had some of the bubble style caprices. I personally knew a trooper that drove a slick top bubble style caprice. I also remember seeing a few ssp mustangs, and not long ago some camaro's.

I wonder what KSP will do without the crown vic. I saw very few caprices in the 90's and have ONLY seen crown vics since (other than suv's and special service cars)


I have never seen a ksp impala or charger (not saying they didnt use them, just that I never seen them)


It seems that crown vics were the work horse of ksp for the last many years. I am just anxious to see what is to come in the near future when they start replacing the vics (if they havent already)

Sounds like a good grab on that vintage genuine KSP '85 Ford, Skip. I'd go for it, especially because it's the real deal and not a "replica"... makes it all the more desirable (although there's NOTHING wrong with replicas, if you can't score an actual vehicle from the agency you want to represent. I've seen some beautifully and accurate replicas done using the same make/model of the original). And if you're dilligent, you'll eventually find the light you're looking for. Just gotta be patient!


As to what they'll do after the CVPI's... well, they've got some good choices available between the currrent Charger, Caprice PPV and "Next Generation" Police Interceptor. They've already got one Caprice 2012 PPV... don't know if it's for evaluation or if that's what they'll be buying in volume. Here's some more KSP iron for you, including the Caprice PPV and SSP Mustangs you spoke of;


2012 Caprice PPV (credit = unknown NOTE: Ignore the time stamp on the photo... it obviously wasn't taken in 2007!! ;) )


KYSP 12 Caprice.jpg


2001 Camero (credit = Terry Whittaker)


KYSP Camero.jpg


Current Police Interceptor (credit = Frank Jacobs)


KYSP Crown Vic (2).jpg


Current Police Interceptor (credit = Keith Belk)


KYSP Crown Vic (3).jpg


1990 Mustang SSP (credit = Jonathan McChesney)


KYSP Mustang.jpg
 
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Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
AshSkip said:
Does KSP still use any camaros or mustangs? Id love to see a challenger in ksp stripes.

Haven't seen any pics banging around of current "Stangs or Cameros, but that doesn't mean they don't exist! ;)


As to the ones I posted, I'd doubt they'd still be in active service. The Camero is a decade old and that Mustang is old enough to legally drink in most states (I think it is a restored, privately owned car now, actually). If still "on the roster", I'd bet they'd both be pretty tired, worn-out rides! :D
 

AshSkip

Member
Oct 16, 2011
494
logan co. ky
I was driving by post KSP 2 in Madisonville the day befor yesterday, around 8:00 at night. Post 2 is on the new I-69 which was formerly known as Wendell H Ford Western Kentucky Parkway. It is actually located in-between the 4 lane (in the meduim). Its a pretty big post. About a halfe of a mile befor we got to the post, befor the meduim widens, there was a KSP car sitting in the center of the medium facing us. The grey is so un-noticable at night. We didnt see him til we was rite on him, he had no headlights or anything on. Glad I wasnt speeding lol.
 

ejwa

Member
May 22, 2012
60
Southeastern Kentucky
I remember that the light in question was the 5200 but I was only about 10 years old then. I do remember the base of the light having take down lights on it as well as the one with out take downs. But I think that question has been answered already. I only remember seeing the light as a strobe. These lights were the first strobe lights I had ever seen, other lights being seal beams and the "Kojack" and pancake lights. I didn't like them as much as sealed beam, but that is a 10 year old's opinion. I do have one question about the 5200 that I didn't see mentioned here. At night it seemed the lights would glow in between the flash. Would the lights be on all the time with a dim glow and then have the bright strobe flash?
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
ejwa said:
I remember that the light in question was the 5200 but I was only about 10 years old then. I do remember the base of the light having take down lights on it as well as the one with out take downs. But I think that question has been answered already. I only remember seeing the light as a strobe. These lights were the first strobe lights I had ever seen, other lights being seal beams and the "Kojack" and pancake lights. I didn't like them as much as sealed beam, but that is a 10 year old's opinion. I do have one question about the 5200 that I didn't see mentioned here. At night it seemed the lights would glow in between the flash. Would the lights be on all the time with a dim glow and then have the bright strobe flash?

That "glow" most likely was the low-wattage incadescent "pilot light" that the 5000-PA and 5200-PA's (and the 5300-PA's, which were simply a 5200-PA with a "collar" add-on component at the base with the take-down lights) were equipped with. It could be utilized with or independently of the strobe functions. Some departments required officers and troopers to run with the pilot light on while driving inclement weather, or when parked in the median strip of a highway.
 

ejwa

Member
May 22, 2012
60
Southeastern Kentucky
Yep, I remember the patrol car parked on the side of the road with the glow feature on. I don't really remember them being on when giving chase but only a few times did I see a chase go by my home. Thanks for you answers.
 

Sarge619

Member
Jul 19, 2011
522
Central Massachusetts
dmathieu said:
Whelen called it a cruise light.
It was available on many of their strobe products, and now a cruise function is available on many of their LED products.

Thanks Dan... brain fart... I knew I had the term wrong and that was all that popped into my head.
 

ejwa

Member
May 22, 2012
60
Southeastern Kentucky
I caught a rerun episode of In The Heat Of The Night and it had one of the brown sheriff's car for Newton County in it. Those cars had the 5200 strobe on top. This was when the character Bill Gilespy was still chief of Sparta. If you can find an episode with those sheriff's cars, you can see those lights very clear.
 

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