Whelen Edge Lightbar Help

[LightBarNovice]

I was hoping that someone can help me with an issue with (what I think is) a Whelen Edge lightbar, circa 2000.

I have a situation where two rear modules and one front module do not illuminate. I have moved those modules to other locations, and they work fine, so the strobes are good. I have also removed the screws, opened up the top of the bar, and checked the four 15A fuses, and all are good.

I have a feeling that there is a module controlling the front and two rear positions that is defective, and I hope to replace it myself, if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[JohnMarcson]

I was hoping that someone can help me with an issue with (what I think is) a Whelen Edge lightbar, circa 2000.

I have a situation where two rear modules and one front module do not illuminate. I have moved those modules to other locations, and they work fine, so the strobes are good. I have also removed the screws, opened up the top of the bar, and checked the four 15A fuses, and all are good.

I have a feeling that there is a module controlling the front and two rear positions that is defective, and I hope to replace it myself, if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Are all the non-working items strobes? If so how may strobes does the bar have total including these?

 

[LightBarNovice]

Yes, all non-working items are strobes. Looks line seven (7) modules on the front side, and seven (7) on the back side.

I should have stated that all the strobes have been working fine for at least the seven years that I have using the car. It's a fairly recent occurrence that these three stopped working, that's why I think something blew.

 

[ur20v]

Yes, all non-working items are strobes. Looks line seven (7) modules on the front side, and seven (7) on the back side.

I should have stated that all the strobes have been working fine for at least the seven years that I have using the car. It's a fairly recent occurrence that these three stopped working, that's why I think something blew.

When you say you checked the four fuses it makes me think you checked the fuses on the matrix board (which are for the halogen lights).

From your description of the problem, it seems like one of your power supplies isnt working. Each power supply has an individual fuse on its red power wire between the harness connection and the supply itself, and you likely missed those.

 

[LightBarNovice]

When you say you checked the four fuses it makes me think you checked the fuses on the matrix board (which are for the halogen lights).

From your description of the problem, it seems like one of your power supplies isnt working. Each power supply has an individual fuse on its red power wire between the harness connection and the supply itself, and you likely missed those.

I thank you for pointing me in the (hopefully) correct direction. I guess I will have to take the top off the light bar and look around for those fuses. Are they regular automotive fuses, or the glass ones? It might be a while before I can check, it's cold here in the NE, and I need a garage. I was doing some Google searches and it looks like the power supplies have the monster capacitors on them. Anybody aware of any pictures or youtube videos that would help me?

Actually, now that I think about it, I had a situation where the entire light bar was not working, and I popped the top and replaced those four (4) fuses and it fixed it. This is a really OLD light bar that allows you to access the guts by taking off 8 or 10 screws off the aluminum top and then it rotates out. Maybe I need to take some pictures to post...

Is there any way to test the power supplies themselves short of swapping wire harnesses and seeing if the problem moves? I do have a volt meter to work with.

Thanks.

 

[firebuff17]

Pics are always helpful and useful!!

 

[ur20v]

Ok, if it is an older model and you are certain the power supply fuses are good, then troubleshoot from the simplest possible solution onward... using a meter, check the function of your switches and continuity of the wiring to the lightbar. Even if everything checks out, check that voltage is actually getting to where it needs to be. It might be something as simple as the power supply not getting a signal to activate that bank of outlets. But if it is as old as you say it is, it could very well be that the power supply is toast, at least on that half.

 

[RS485]

Sounds like this is BL10000 serial-controlled lightbar.

It could be tricky to pin-point the problem. Maybe...hopefully...its just a fuse and you'll find it.

 

[firebuff17]

Sounds like this is BL10000 serial-controlled lightbar.

They way he described the top …. I was thinking the same thing.

 

[RS485]

Here's the guts of my BL10000:
The right most board(s) are the brains of the operation. The gray/blue wire on the bottom right is the serial-control (going to an MPCx controller).
The three center boards are the strobe power supplies, each driving four heads.
If you have 14 strobes, then I'm guessing you have a fourth power supply? In my case, the left-most board looks like it drives the four HALOs (TD/ALLEY) in my bar.

Obviously, if you try to diagnose anything with the guts exposed, be really careful around the strobe power supplies and the red capacitors in particular (400+ volts is _not_ to be trifled with).

One thing to look for is any oozing of crap out of the capacitors or visible deformation.

I'm in NE too and you're right - we've had some pretty cold nights recently, haven't we? Not sure exactly what to suggest you look for but it seems reasonable to keep that fact in mind. It would be nice if you warmed the bar up, if it suddenly started working again as that would hint that some contact is being broken under extreme cold.

As @firebuff17 mentioned, it would be great to get some pics of your lightbar so we can make sure we're looking at the same thing.

 

[ur20v]

I can see why this was such a short-lived design... overcomplicated and little added value for the additional cost, even for massive fleets.

 

[LightBarNovice]

I think you are correct about the BL10000 model based on the pictures that I found on Google/YouTube. That section of the bar has not worked for quite a while, so I do not think cold is a factor in it not working. My luck the power supply is toast. I will open it up, take some pics and post as soon as I get a chance. Many thanks for the info so far.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I think you are correct about the BL10000 model based on the pictures that I found on Google/YouTube. That section of the bar has not worked for quite a while, so I do not think cold is a factor in it not working. My luck the power supply is toast. I will open it up, take some pics and post as soon as I get a chance. Many thanks for the info so far.

I am honestly surprised you have a B-Link bar working at all outside the full system. How is it hooked up?

 

[firebuff17]

I am honestly surprised you have a B-Link bar working at all outside the full system. How is it hooked up?

I am assuming he he is using the MPC0x controller.

Pics of the whole set up would be helpful.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I am assuming he he is using the MPC0x controller.

Pics of the whole set up would be helpful.

I would guess so, I haven't seen B-Link in the field in a long time, I'm curious how much of the system he has. There would be a lot of failure points for a smaller system. Still cool to know there are systems out there operating.

 

[LightBarNovice]

From the pictures I found on eBay, it does look like an MPC01 controller.

Forgive the incorrect terminology...I know there is a siren control module and a strobe module connected to the system. There are also two LED flashers mounted on the side mirrors, as well as four strobes mounted in the front cornering lights/rear tail lights.

Given its age, I'm lucky anything works, including the truck...

 

[firebuff17]

No worries @LightBarNovice

The B-Link system is great, and in its hay day, ahead of its time. That being said, it could have its failure points. Given the number of options that this system could have, it’s easy to get tangled up in it.

Have you changed control heads, or any part of the system, recently? All parts of this B-Link system get daisy chained together via a 2 wire cable. And then in the programming, everything gets assigned and told what to do. If anything changes in hardware, it could throw a lot of things out of whack.

 

[LightBarNovice]

No part of the system has been changed in the last seven years that I am ware of, with the exception of replacing a non-working strobe module a couple of years ago.

 

[JohnMarcson]

No part of the system has been changed in the last seven years that I am ware of, with the exception of replacing a non-working strobe module a couple of years ago.

I imagine it is the smaller BLINK or SMART LINK version meant for cars/SUVs vs. full apparatus. These systems were cool when kept as a system. People would try to use just the bar and have problems. The bars work on a type of control which is essentially multiplexing, I have limited understanding of the triggering system other than you can't just use 12V on any of it. I'm guessing you have a bad "node" or portion of the in-bar activation system. I wish I was more familiar with these and had a place to start to fix them. I don't have any tech sheets on the system but here are the catalogs so people can tell what you have.

 

[firebuff17]

Thank you @JohnMarcson
That’s what I am leaning towards also. A bad node. One small portion bit the dust, lost its connection, got its ones and zeros backwards, etc.
I don’t have any hands on experience with these systems. But something that gets overlooked is the wiring of the system together. The pair of wires that gets daisy chained is of specific twists per inch. I have read other people having trouble and some issues were resolved with fixing that twisted pair.

John,
Can’t wait to see your library when you get it uploaded. I love reading old brochures and seeing all that info. Especially Whelen, and all the lights that I saw growing up and wanting but never having.

 

[LightBarNovice]

I imagine it is the smaller BLINK or SMART LINK version meant for cars/SUVs vs. full apparatus. These systems were cool when kept as a system. People would try to use just the bar and have problems. The bars work on a type of control which is essentially multiplexing, I have limited understanding of the triggering system other than you can't just use 12V on any of it. I'm guessing you have a bad "node" or portion of the in-bar activation system. I wish I was more familiar with these and had a place to start to fix them. I don't have any tech sheets on the system but here are the catalogs so people can tell what you have.

That's amazing that you have that! It sure looks correct. Now I think I am really in trouble. I was hoping for a fuse, lamenting that it might be a power supply, and now am more worried that I bit off more than I can chew...

 

[RS485]

FWIW, I think its either the power supply or the main board in the lightbar talking to the power supply (or a fuse _in_ the bar tucked under the inside frame on one side).

Given that only 3 out of 14 heads are failing, it seems to suggest the control message sent from the MPC is fine....that control message is check-summed and if it came across garbled/corrupted, I don't think the bar would work at all. The fact that most lamps are flashing indicates the problem is within the lightbar itself.

@LightBarNovice -- do you see any flashing LEDs on the MPC? Is it making a beeping sound? In theory, it _should_ be letting you know something is wrong.

My $0.02

 

[LightBarNovice]

FWIW, I think its either the power supply or the main board in the lightbar talking to the power supply (or a fuse _in_ the bar tucked under the inside frame on one side).

Given that only 3 out of 14 heads are failing, it seems to suggest the control message sent from the MPC is fine....that control message is check-summed and if it came across garbled/corrupted, I don't think the bar would work at all. The fact that most lamps are flashing indicates the problem is within the lightbar itself.

@LightBarNovice -- do you see any flashing LEDs on the MPC? Is it making a beeping sound? In theory, it _should_ be letting you know something is wrong.

My $0.02

According to a note I just found, I think I have to amend that to 3 heads not working on the rear, and 1 head on the front (total of 4), which matches with the poster who said that one power supply controls 4 heads. I'll verify the next time I get to the car (which should hopefully be this weekend).

I do hear the "beep" sound when activating/deactivating the TD/LA/RA and <--> (TA) buttons, but no additional extra beeps. The only flashing that I remember is from the TA indicator, which on occasion flashes all the lights simultaneously (again, if I remember correctly). The TA does seem to work correctly (as far as Left/Right/Split).

Are there fuses tucked under the inside frame, or was that a guess? That's what I am hoping for, but it seems that it is looking more like a power supply that blew...

 

[RS485]

Hi - yes, when you take the black top off the lightbar, look inside:
That said, I don't understand how the TA would work correctly if 2 or 3 heads don't work in the rear.
Looking forward to your pics.
Also, there's an old thread here where someone described the steps they took to identify a bad power-supply. It might be helpful too.

 

[Ranger-Services.com]

figure ill chime in since i still sell and service these.

it is not uncommon for these setups to lose some programming especially with cars sitting with dead batteries over time, its rare but I have seen it happen

we also need to know which 4 lights arent working as one strobe pack will do 4 corners, second will do 4 inboards, 3rd will do farthest inner strobes that will help narrow it down,
if a halogen output is dead then it could be board level or programming level

other troubles can be led to power
these bars are power hungry and if they see less than roughly 13v or less the bar will do very funny things. be sure the vehicles alternator and battery are preforming to their max and that all connections are good no corrosion, poor workmanship etc

as for worrying about twists in the wire, that has been more of a myth, I have seen multiple come in for modifications that were wired up with standard 2 wire speaker cable and no twists and function fine for years

also you messaged me on FB, feel free to reach out again if needed if i failed to reply to a message

JPerry

 

[JohnMarcson]

figure ill chime in since i still sell and service these.

it is not uncommon for these setups to lose some programming especially with cars sitting with dead batteries over time, its rare but I have seen it happen

we also need to know which 4 lights arent working as one strobe pack will do 4 corners, second will do 4 inboards, 3rd will do farthest inner strobes that will help narrow it down,
if a halogen output is dead then it could be board level or programming level

other troubles can be led to power
these bars are power hungry and if they see less than roughly 13v or less the bar will do very funny things. be sure the vehicles alternator and battery are preforming to their max and that all connections are good no corrosion, poor workmanship etc

as for worrying about twists in the wire, that has been more of a myth, I have seen multiple come in for modifications that were wired up with standard 2 wire speaker cable and no twists and function fine for years

also you messaged me on FB, feel free to reach out again if needed if i failed to reply to a message

JPerry

I agree the wire twist is pretty much a myth. Try to find something in common with the non-working parts. If they are all the same power supply that's a start. If they are on different supplies you are going to have to look father back at controls etc. Ranger-Services has probably got the most "hands on" time with edges of anyone here, he will be a great resource.

 

[Nolines]

figure ill chime in since i still sell and service these.

JPerry

Ahhh what equipment for the BLink series do you have available??

I have the MPC01, Bl627, and I believe the Bl420 4 channel halogen flasher, I'm looking to hook up an inner edge ta that's multi wire to something I can partially control from my mpc.

 

[Ranger-Services.com]

Ahhh what equipment for the BLink series do you have available??

I have the MPC01, Bl627, and I believe the Bl420 4 channel halogen flasher, I'm looking to hook up an inner edge ta that's multi wire to something I can partially control from my mpc.

to add anything youll have to re program the mpc, buy I have atleast one of every part of the system they have made

 

[Nolines]

to add anything youll have to re program the mpc, buy I have atleast one of every part of the system they have made

Yep I have the software and did my own setup on my last interceptor and the replacement, I have the halogen flasher setup but not installed, looking for a way I can set up a ta with .... Dang I forget the name of the part for non serial ta's...

 

[LightBarNovice]

figure ill chime in since i still sell and service these.

it is not uncommon for these setups to lose some programming especially with cars sitting with dead batteries over time, its rare but I have seen it happen

we also need to know which 4 lights arent working as one strobe pack will do 4 corners, second will do 4 inboards, 3rd will do farthest inner strobes that will help narrow it down,
if a halogen output is dead then it could be board level or programming level

other troubles can be led to power
these bars are power hungry and if they see less than roughly 13v or less the bar will do very funny things. be sure the vehicles alternator and battery are preforming to their max and that all connections are good no corrosion, poor workmanship etc

as for worrying about twists in the wire, that has been more of a myth, I have seen multiple come in for modifications that were wired up with standard 2 wire speaker cable and no twists and function fine for years

also you messaged me on FB, feel free to reach out again if needed if i failed to reply to a message

JPerry

I was able to get more information on which strobes are not working.

Rear:
OK-XXX-OK-XXX-OK-XXX-OK

Front:
OK-Halogen-OK-XXX-OK-Halogen-OK

OK= Working Strobe
XXX= Non-Working Strobe
Halogen= Working Halogen Bulb

In Summary, three (3) non-working rear strobes, and one (1) non-working front strobe.

I am attaching pictures of the inside of the lightbar. Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to test the four 15A, and one 5A, fuses. The corrosion on the caps looks pretty bad. I am surprised anything is working on the bar. Then again, it is 22 or so years old...

I assume the next step would be to verify that the 5 fuses are working. If yes, I guess swap some cables between the power supplies to see if the problem moves to a different set of strobes, and find out if a PS is bad.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[RS485]

FWIW, my lightbar is very similar to yours. In my case, the 4 lamps you report as XXX are connected to the left-most power supply (as show in your DSCF4261.jpg pic).

Your plan to examine the fuses, and if necessary, swap power supply's around sounds right to me. If the problem stays with those same four lamps (assuming they are all connected to one PS like mine) then logically, something's wrong in the on the brain side.

Note: The brain board uses those ribbon cables to control the PS/Halogen board they're connected to. Make sure they're plugged in nice and tight.

I look forward to your next report!

 

[Nolines]

By the by take that tape off the last button on the mpc01 and hold it down till things start lighting up, when it's done testing you'll know what's not working as what isn't will flash as everything is lit up.

 

[LightBarNovice]

Someone had asked if the TA was working. I forgot to mention that it is working as far as Left/Right/Split/Flash is concerned (minus the strobes that are not functioning, of course).

However, the TA indicators on the left of the MPC01 work for a few seconds, and then flashes most of its lights, rendering it useless. In other words, I can't tell how the TA is set other than to go look at the rear of the bar. Anyone know if this is related to the strobes not working (possible power supply issue), or do I have another problem to deal with?

FWIW, my lightbar is very similar to yours. In my case, the 4 lamps you report as XXX are connected to the left-most power supply (as show in your DSCF4261.jpg pic).

Your plan to examine the fuses, and if necessary, swap power supply's around sounds right to me. If the problem stays with those same four lamps (assuming they are all connected to one PS like mine) then logically, something's wrong in the on the brain side.

Note: The brain board uses those ribbon cables to control the PS/Halogen board they're connected to. Make sure they're plugged in nice and tight.

I look forward to your next report!

Thank you.

By the by take that tape off the last button on the mpc01 and hold it down till things start lighting up, when it's done testing you'll know what's not working as what isn't will flash as everything is lit up.

Is that what that button does? It's been covered since I "inherited" the car. I thought it was for an ejector seat or something like that...

 

[RS485]

Someone had asked if the TA was working. I forgot to mention that it is working as far as Left/Right/Split/Flash is concerned (minus the strobes that are not functioning, of course).

However, the TA indicators on the left of the MPC01 work for a few seconds, and then flashes most of its lights, rendering it useless. In other words, I can't tell how the TA is set other than to go look at the rear of the bar. Anyone know if this is related to the strobes not working (possible power supply issue), or do I have another problem to deal with?

I don't think you have another problem to deal with - I think what you describe is caused by the MPC recognizing that TA functionality is not happening correctly in the lightbar (based on messages coming back from the lightbar to the MPC).

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about the MPC...I'd focus on the fuses and PS swapping as that's the primary/most immediate problem here.

 

[LightBarNovice]

I am still waiting to get a chance to test the fuses and power supplies. Unfortunately, the car is currently out of service due to mechanical issues, and I do not have access to it.

 

[RS485]

I am still waiting to get a chance to test the fuses and power supplies. Unfortunately, the car is currently out of service due to mechanical issues, and I do not have access to it.

Thanks for chiming back in. I look forward to your next report when you have a moment!