Whelen Edge Wiring Quick Disconnect

[Rob95655]

Newbie here, so bear with me...


So I have a 2000 Excursion I use to tow a search and rescue trailer for the FD. I had a 1st gen Expedition and just upgraded to get more pulling power.


I have an Edge 9000 amber with 4 strobes, alleys, two front flashers and a traffic director in back. A total of 16 leads if memory serves (all strobe hot, ground, rear strobe only hot relay, wig-wag hot, takedown hot, left alley hot, right alley hot, traffic director hot, 8 traffic director segments ground).


I made a custom wiring harness that worked for my Expy, but I hated the way I made it "quick disconnect" (running 16 wires in a split loom back across the roof, down the inside of the back hatch to two 9 pin Molex connectors). Mounting the bar to the roof rack made for quick removal on the Expy and should do the same for my Excursion. I want to do better for the wiring.


I guess I have three options and I am hoping for some advise.


1) Get a wiring kit from EBay that uses a serial board (4 wires to the bar - pos, neg and 2 signal wires) for $150 but give up the roof traffic director.


2) Make a new harness (truck side) that runs down the back hatch and keep hating the look


3) Try an experiment I have had in mind that would use heavy gage hot and grounds to the light bar, but use relays inside and cat-5 to carry the relay trigger (not even sure if that would work, but would make any harness much thinner).


Well...4) Go with the best/cheapest suggestion you guys have.


I AM willing to drill a hole in the roof (already planning on a through-the-roof NMO mount for my VHF/UHF radio...easy to have the shop drill a 2nd hole at the same time).


I won't use the light bar every day, but count on it being used once a month, sometimes more (we have 6 trailers and mine is the "show and tell" one), so I want my truck to look as clean as possible. I went so far as to install a lower dash panel from a F650 and put in 6 engraved Carlin switches instead of the bulky looking control boxes (well, that was to please the wife by keeping it looking as "stock" as possible but also looks much cleaner in my opinion).


My guy called Whelen and apparently they stopped selling the electrical quick-disconnect wiring kit. I am thinking one of those multi-pin military style bayonet or screw connectors, but I can't find them with connector pins that don't require a $400+ tool to crimp).


Advice?

 

[mjw357]

Shop the military surplus websites for male/female cannon plug sets that already have wire harnesses on them. You can just hook your wires onto them. If you could find a chassis mount that you could mount on the roof, that would look very clean with the lightbar removed, just the little flange and a waterproof cap showing.


Mil-Spec & Circular Connectors


Some examples of what I am talking about.


Good luck!

 

[Medicman695]

I use the big RV trailer connectors (7 pin version) for my LB's. I run all the control wires through the trailer plug and then run the power and grounds through a standard 4 pin trailer connector. Costs about $40-$50 to do that setup (LB and Vehicle side) the only pain is getting all the connections right on the 7 pin plugs.

 

[Rob95655]

I use the big RV trailer connectors (7 pin version) for my LB's.

OK, but I would need to use THREE of those giant RV plugs to cover all the connections I have...not to mention the back clearance for those are DEEP...I'd have to modify the overhead console just to fit them. Doesn't sound like an option I can live with.

 

[Rob95655]

Shop the military surplus websites for male/female cannon plug sets that already have wire harnesses on them. You can just hook your wires onto them. If you could find a chassis mount that you could mount on the roof, that would look very clean with the lightbar removed, just the little flange and a waterproof cap showing.

Mil-Spec & Circular Connectors


Some examples of what I am talking about.


Good luck!

Those are what I want, but hard to find them with wires already attached...

 

[kitn1mcc]

the Old QC connectors were called Chinch/Jones Plugs


Jones / J Plugs and Sockets | Cinch Connectors

 

[Rob95655]

the Old QC connectors were called Chinch/Jones Plugs

have you used these before? It looks from the photos that one end of the connector (wire-side) might be a blade connector and the other end (wire-side) looks like a pin. How do you attach the wires?

 

[chuck_raduenz]

so your running the lightbar harness and other wires from the bar though the rear hatch/door into the vehicle. where the connsections are inside of the vehicle?


as for useing cat5 cable as relay triggers. i couldnt see why it wouldnt work as cat 5 has 8 wires. its almost the same idea as the motorola system 9000 8 output head. that has a small cable that runs to relays or iv seen in the past a relay box. if there was/is room in the bar for all them relays id do it. i have a 911ep millennium bar that i can take off. i however only have 5 wires to deal with and used the small anderson connectors. not the 2 pole ones. i have the single type where you can make any configuration by sliding them together. i dont like it as there it a plug that sticks up on the roof. as for the cat 5 idea as long as the connections are on the inside where water wont get to it and wreck the connection pins. not to mention the plugs are cheap as well as the cable. if useing this idea it would be a good idea to make the relays neg triggered this way if the door lip would short the wires out it wont fry the wires and or start a fire. the cat5 idea may sound cheap but its easy to repair and saves on a large cable and plug to deal with...


Chinch/Jones Plugs


also look like a good idea also. they also appear to be solder connections. where they have a small hole and it angled for areas to solder in the center of the back side of the plugs pins. not to bad of an idea as if you need to you can unsolder and fix the wire or wires. thats only if the broken wise is on the outside row. if mounting them to the roof it be nice to have a cover for it so it dont hold water and get dirt in the plugs.....

 

[Rob95655]

so your running the lightbar harness and other wires from the bar though the rear hatch/door into the vehicle. where the connsections are inside of the vehicle?

In my old Expedition the connection was actually two 9 pin "Molex" style connectors at the bottom of the hatch still outside the vehicle. I had noticed even after terrible rains and driving the inside of the hatch edge would remain dry. For this Excursion if I couldn't find a roof connection I was planning the same but adding weatherstripping to keep out dust as well as water.

it would be a good idea to make the relays neg triggered this way if the door lip would short the wires out it wont fry the wires and or start a fire.

Wouldn't that mean the CAT5/6 cable would have to be electrified to keep the lights "off"? That seem like it would be more likely to have issues than keeping the wire positive switched and letting the CAT5/6 cable not electrified to keep them off. ...or am I missing something? Plus, there is a LOT of room at the hatch hinge and all along the path the CAT5/6 wire woukd run, so rubbing should not be an issue. Would also be inside of split loom and have heat shrink wrap along areas that could rub against something (inside the split loom).

Chinch/Jones Plugs

also look like a good idea also. they also appear to be solder connections. where they have a small hole and it angled for areas to solder in the center of the back side of the plugs pins. not to bad of an idea as if you need to you can unsolder and fix the wire or wires. thats only if the broken wise is on the outside row. if mounting them to the roof it be nice to have a cover for it so it dont hold water and get dirt in the plugs.....

I thought they looked like a good idea, especially to run the power since they are polarized. I just need to find out if my antenna guy can cut square holes to mount it. For a cover I was thinking of getting a second set, sealing it with silicone and making a "dummy plug" to use to keep out dust and water when not in use.

 

[chuck_raduenz]

the relay coils need power and ground to work. so what you do it power the one side of the relay coil input and connect the other side to the cat 5 cable. the cat 5 cable wires will only be grounded when turing on the switch to make ground go to the relay coil. so since the relay is powered inside the bar all you need is ground to make the relay work and it wont be grounded all the time only when it use....


but id look in to the Chinch/Jones Plugs first. seems like a good idea. cap is also a great idea. goos luck on it. if it works i may have to try it as well on my next lightbar....

 

[kitn1mcc]

those chinch plugs are what whelen used before the connectors they use now. if you take the bar on and off just run the cable thru the window

 

[Shawn L]

MNSTAR used to sell quick disconnects, they were a good product I have also seen guys use the trailer style plugs , the ones I saw used were the 6 pin style, cause they were smaller, instead of mounting them through the roof, they were mounted on an "L" bracket attached to the luggage rack, the wires were then ran through the roof in a grommet.

 

[Rob95655]

those chinch plugs are what whelen used before the connectors they use now. if you take the bar on and off just run the cable thru the window

Not an option. Excursions and F250-350s are know for the dooe seals "flattening". I can't run the wiring between the door and body. Running the wire through the window would mean leaving the window open any time the light bar is on the truck. They (the FD) calls our team when they are maxed out or when we have big storms, earthquakes or similar. Keeping a window open while in driving rain storms won't cut it. Plus the way the doors swing, I would have to have a TON of play in the wire. I run an Excursion to hold my command kit and to take some of my other battalion members with me...I need to be able to open all doors without worrying about tearing up a wiring harness.


Plus... it looks tacky. Just today I had the truck and trailer on display at the State Fair at the main gate. We can't have our nice $80,000 S&R trailer hooked to a truck that looks like it is bubble-gummed and scotch-taped together. A nasty wiring harness hanging through an open window will not instill trust in the EMA community in our abilities. My truck needs to look just as good as a City/State apparatus.

 

[Rob95655]

the relay coils need power and ground to work. so what you do it power the one side of the relay coil input and connect the other side to the cat 5 cable. the cat 5 cable wires will only be grounded when turing on the switch to make ground go to the relay coil..

I must be missing something. If I am reading right, you are suggesting running a hot lead into the light bar in to some type of bus. I apply power, then use the Cat5/6 as a ground. Is that correct?


If so, here is what I am worried about. The bar itself is "hot" (the circuits inside). If the Cat5/6 were to be grounded (pinched, wear from vibration, etc.), the bar would activate. In a crash let's say (or a tree limb hitting the CAT5/6 wiring harness on the roof), the system could ground, possibly even starting a fire.


It seems safer to me to never energize the circuit until I want it. If I crash or take a limb and the light bar is off (since I control the power inside the cab at the switch), there is no chance of an electrical fire since the damaged CAT5/6 wire was never energized to begin with.


Yes, I already use fuses at an aux fuse box, but the idea of having a hot wire when it isn't doing anything just doesn't sound safe. I mean, aren't most high amp automotive wiring setups positively switched (lights, starter, stereos, etc.)? If negative switched systems were as safe/safer, wouldn't we see them more in auto wiring?


Or am I being paranoid?


"the cat 5 cable wires will only be grounded when turing on the switch to make ground go to the relay coil.."


Can CAT5/6 wire handle that much amperage ground? Those wires inside are TINY!

 

[Rob95655]

MNSTAR used to sell quick disconnects, they were a good product I have also seen guys use the trailer style plugs , the ones I saw used were the 6 pin style, cause they were smaller, instead of mounting them through the roof, they were mounted on an "L" bracket attached to the luggage rack, the wires were then ran through the roof in a grommet.

I didn't realize the 6 pin was that much smaller than the 7 pin...I imagined three giant 2" connectors sticking out of the roof.

 

[Rob95655]

those chinch plugs are what whelen used before the connectors they use now.

Hs anyone had experience with flush mounts using Cinch plugs? Or pics?

 

[mjw357]

http://www.ittcannon.com/uploadedFiles/Product_PDFs/MS%20A&B%20Catalog.pdf


ITT Interconnect Solutions: Cannon, VEAM & BIW Connectors

 

[chuck_raduenz]

I must be missing something. If I am reading right, you are suggesting running a hot lead into the light bar in to some type of bus. I apply power, then use the Cat5/6 as a ground. Is that correct?

If so, here is what I am worried about. The bar itself is "hot" (the circuits inside). If the Cat5/6 were to be grounded (pinched, wear from vibration, etc.), the bar would activate. In a crash let's say (or a tree limb hitting the CAT5/6 wiring harness on the roof), the system could ground, possibly even starting a fire.


It seems safer to me to never energize the circuit until I want it. If I crash or take a limb and the light bar is off (since I control the power inside the cab at the switch), there is no chance of an electrical fire since the damaged CAT5/6 wire was never energized to begin with.


Yes, I already use fuses at an aux fuse box, but the idea of having a hot wire when it isn't doing anything just doesn't sound safe. I mean, aren't most high amp automotive wiring setups positively switched (lights, starter, stereos, etc.)? If negative switched systems were as safe/safer, wouldn't we see them more in auto wiring?


Or am I being paranoid?


"the cat 5 cable wires will only be grounded when turing on the switch to make ground go to the relay coil.."


Can CAT5/6 wire handle that much amperage ground? Those wires inside are TINY!

dosent the bar already have a main power and ground wires going to it anyways like a liberty, freedom, tomar blade, millennium, galaxy. they all have main power wires going to the bar. so evon if you do happen to take the bar off there is still a chance of a electrical fire anyways no matter what with the main power wire. im just saying wouldnt it in all reality be a safer way to use the cat5 wires as ground signals so if the cabe would get pinched, cut, or shorted out the worst that would happen is the bar would turn on, rather than have a melted wire across the roof? i guess it dont really make a differance what you want to do as far as power or ground signals though a cat 5 cable im just pointing this out.


plus in al reality if you want it to look need and clean like a state vehicle just permantly mount the bar and be done with it.....


relay coils are realy low amps. the cat 5 will hold it no problem. if you dont beleve me just take a long ass cat5 cable and get a coil. hook it up and leave it on for a day.... 3 yrs ago a company i worked for one of the workers "not me" used cat 5 cable to power tir 3s.

 

[Rob95655]

dosent the bar already have a main power and ground wires going to it anyways like a liberty, freedom, tomar blade, millennium, galaxy.

Um...no. There is a hot wire that powers strobes only, a hot wire that trips a relay to power the rear strobes only, then a separate hot lead for takedowns, a separate hot lead for work lights, separate hot for left alley and separate hot for right alley. The only "Main" wires are hots for strobes, then one dedicated ground wire for all functions except the traffic director. I know this for a fact because I can leave the hot lead for strobes off and fire the rear strobes and the indicator on the carlin switch for front strobes will turn on (telling me they are using the same hot lead), but when I turn on alleys, work lights or pursuit lights and the strobe lead indicator is off.

im just saying wouldnt it in all reality be a safer way to use the cat5 wires as ground signals so if the cabe would get pinched, cut, or shorted out the worst that would happen is the bar would turn on, rather than have a melted wire across the roof?

So you are saying one strand from a CAT5/6 will take the 30 amps I'm sending to the strobes and ground it without any heat issues?

plus in al reality if you want it to look need and clean like a state vehicle just permantly mount the bar and be done with it.....

Not going to respond to that, you are missing the point.

relay coils are realy low amps.

That was my original question and no-one answered it. Does a relay ground only carry the voltage required to "close" the relay? If so, what is that voltage/amperage that CAT5/6 cable will need to carry? I'd like some type of number vs. "my buddy did it with no problem" - no offense, but I trust calculations more than anecdotal answers.

 

[mjw357]

Does a relay ground only carry the voltage required to "close" the relay? If so, what is that voltage/amperage that CAT5/6 cable will need to carry? I'd like some type of number vs. "my buddy did it with no problem" - no offense, but I trust calculations more than anecdotal answers.

Typically, the coil current is less than 1A. The only issue I see with using CAT5 cable is that it is a solid conductor, which means it will tend to break more easily if flexed. Electrically, should work fine.

And yes, the ground tab on the relay is just the negative side of the coil, so again, less than 1A.

 

[chuck_raduenz]

Typically, the coil current is less than 1A. The only issue I see with using CAT5 cable is that it is a solid conductor, which means it will tend to break more easily if flexed. Electrically, should work fine.

And yes, the ground tab on the relay is just the negative side of the coil, so again, less than 1A.

exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you could however use patch cable that is stranded............ and not solid copper


Rob95655 i take it you dont know how a relay works?


pins 85 and 86 are the coil triggers. there not specified (+) or (-) pins. so if you have power going to the relay all the time and no ground the relays coil pins 87a and 30 are a connected circuit. but when you entergize the relay by applying ground to the other coil pin the relay will click and remove the connected circuit from pin 87a and move the output to 87. it makes no differnace if power or ground triggers the relay. hopefuly this well help a bit more on what im getting at.





but since you have no main power in the bar like i thought it did as most bars do cept like the mx7000 and the vector bars im pretty much wasting my time. and no a cat 5 cable will not support 30amp i wouldnt run anything over and amp though cat 5 cable.


so your bet bet is go with the plugs..... good luck

 

[fire1]

Newbie here, so bear with me...

So I have a 2000 Excursion I use to tow a search and rescue trailer for the FD. I had a 1st gen Expedition and just upgraded to get more pulling power.


I have an Edge 9000 amber with 4 strobes, alleys, two front flashers and a traffic director in back. A total of 16 leads if memory serves (all strobe hot, ground, rear strobe only hot relay, wig-wag hot, take down hot, left alley hot, right alley hot, traffic director hot, 8 traffic director segments ground).


I made a custom wiring harness that worked for my Expy, but I hated the way I made it "quick disconnect" (running 16 wires in a split loom back across the roof, down the inside of the back hatch to two 9 pin Molex connectors). Mounting the bar to the roof rack made for quick removal on the Expy and should do the same for my Excursion. I want to do better for the wiring.


I guess I have three options and I am hoping for some advise.


1) Get a wiring kit from EBay that uses a serial board (4 wires to the bar - pos, neg and 2 signal wires) for $150 but give up the roof traffic director.


2) Make a new harness (truck side) that runs down the back hatch and keep hating the look


3) Try an experiment I have had in mind that would use heavy gage hot and grounds to the light bar, but use relays inside and cat-5 to carry the relay trigger (not even sure if that would work, but would make any harness much thinner).


Well...4) Go with the best/cheapest suggestion you guys have.


I AM willing to drill a hole in the roof (already planning on a through-the-roof NMO mount for my VHF/UHF radio...easy to have the shop drill a 2nd hole at the same time).


I won't use the light bar every day, but count on it being used once a month, sometimes more (we have 6 trailers and mine is the "show and tell" one), so I want my truck to look as clean as possible. I went so far as to install a lower dash panel from a F650 and put in 6 engraved Carlin switches instead of the bulky looking control boxes (well, that was to please the wife by keeping it looking as "stock" as possible but also looks much cleaner in my opinion).


My guy called Whelen and apparently they stopped selling the electrical quick-disconnect wiring kit. I am thinking one of those multi-pin military style bayonet or screw connectors, but I can't find them with connector pins that don't require a $400+ tool to crimp).


Advice?

Why do you want to keep taking the bar off? A full size bar is a pain to keep putting on when you get a call. I would just leave it on & get a cleaner look & just run the cable in the roof.


Also why do you want a plug sticking out of your roof. Plus just a another spot for electrical problems.


My suggestions to you.


Correct me if I am wrong It sound like you have power to the bar at all time. The only time you should have power to the bar is when you turn a switch on. Or did you hook this up as a negitive switch?


1) You can buy a TA board so you do not have to give it up, it is a low current control.


2) Buy a separate TA for the rear window.


3) You are spending way to much on relays, really not needed. Your power supply for the strobes draws the most at 7 amps and 16 GA stranded wire will carry 12 amps at 20 feet on a shorter run will carry more with no problems. On a 4 head power supply you have a cutout wire that only needs 1 amp to shut the front strobes off. All you need is a 6 switch box and you should have 1 switch for the strobes and 1 for the cutout. 1 each for the rest of your functions.


4) if you insist on the disconnect try Mike at Welcome to Ranger Services Online Store he has all the boards for low current switching plus the TA board & may have your plugs.


5) trade you bar in on one that is setup on a low current serial control with a TA. Mike has them also.

 

[fire1]

Sorry to say this, but you do not have this wired correctly. none of the indicator lights should go out if they are in the on position You should have 1 main wire for the power supply so when you turn your switch on it lights, & all your strobes are on and this switch left on. When you turn the switch on for the cutout the indicator should light & turn off the front or rear (depends on how you have the cables run for the strobes).

 

[Rob95655]

Rob95655 i take it you dont know how a relay works?

no, I knew HOW they worked, just didn't know now much energy it took to make them work. From what everyone is describing, I could run my own "main hot" wire, tap I to it using a bus type of configuration (barrier strip maybe), wire the relays after the barrier strip, then the hot out of the relay to the light and the ground of the relay to the CAT5/6 and it would work as you described - ground switched - then run the ground from the lights to a central ground...giving me one hot main, one ground main and one control wire (the 8 wires in the CAT5/6).

 

[Rob95655]

Sorry to say this, but you do not have this wired correctly. none of the indicator lights should go out if they are in the on position You should have 1 main wire for the power supply so when you turn your switch on it lights, & all your strobes are on and this switch left on. When you turn the switch on for the cutout the indicator should light & turn off the front or rear (depends on how you have the cables run for the strobes).

I either misstated or you misread...if I hit the all strobe switch, the Carlin switch lights up. If I hit the rear only switch, it also lights up. If the main is off and I hit the rear, both indicators turn on. The issue wasn't with the indicators being off when the switch was on - it was the reverse - indicators turning on when the switch is off. I probably should have put diodes on the main strobe switch, but a) it isn't hurting anything and B) the strobes used seem to fire a touch faster when I had the od setup and kept the main and rear switches both on vs just the rear switch (maybe it was trying to push thrpe rears via the relay signal?). The cutout works properly, it's just an additional indicator on the Carlin switch.

 

[Rob95655]

Why do you want to keep taking the bar off? A full size bar is a pain to keep putting on when you get a call. I would just leave it on & get a cleaner look & just run the cable in the roof.

Because it is my POV and it won't fit in most of the parking garages in the city let alone my garage.

Also why do you want a plug sticking out of your roof. Plus just a another spot for electrical problems.

A panel mount plug will be so low profile you wouldn't be able to see it unless you stood on a ladder - it would literally be shorter than the roof rack rails. A properly installed and sealed connector like the ITTCannon one suggested earlier will have no issues with leaks or shorts.

Correct me if I am wrong It sound like you have power to the bar at all time. The only time you should have power to the bar is when you turn a switch on. Or did you hook this up as a negitive switch?

Consider yourself corrected As I stated earlier the light bar is positively switched.

3) You are spending way to much on relays, really not needed. Your power supply for the strobes draws the most at 7 amps and 16 GA stranded wire will carry 12 amps at 20 feet on a shorter run will carry more with no problems. On a 4 head power supply you have a cutout wire that only needs 1 amp to shut the front strobes off. All you need is a 6 switch box and you should have 1 switch for the strobes and 1 for the cutout. 1 each for the rest of your functions.

Already have it wired to a custom F650 dash mod I installed with 9 Carlin switches:


Riffraff Diesel: Riffraff Custom Auto Dash Kit


...why get a switch box when it already looks cleaner than any switchbox install? And I'm not spending a dime on relays, I have about 20 brand new ones laying around in the garage. The point in this is to simply either A) Make the existing harness smaller (right now with the insulated leads it is about as big around as a quarter) or B) Set it up to use a quick disconnect on the roof and ditch the 25+ feet of wiring I have now to get to the board with a nice clean short 12" or so.

4) if you insist on the disconnect try Mike at Welcome to Ranger Services Online Store he has all the boards for low current switching plus the TA board & may have your plugs.
5) trade you bar in on one that is setup on a low current serial control with a TA. Mike has them also.

Not going to flame them, but I will never deal with Ranger Services again.

 

[OutofCantrol]

give these guys a call Emergency Vehicle Equipment, Amber Warning Lights & Tactical Gear - MHQ they build cars for CT State police all of which have quick disconnect light bars. They should be able to get you the wiring and the light bar mounts you need. All of which are meant for whelen equipment.

 

[G1159]

Just for FYI, this isn't for an EDGE, but a 9M or LFL (Freedom, Liberty, Patriot) with LC switching:


Whelen 02-0463944-00


Quick Disconnect Box, Crown Victoria (can be used on any vehicle with little modification, but made specifically for CV)


Includes Power cable, 8 LC connections in one AMP Connector, Black sealed plug box vehicle side (appx 2x2x2"), mounting lip for side of Crown Vic (or can be cut off for roof top mounting for SUVs)


This is used in the State of CT, designed by Whelen and used by Dept Pub Safety


Custom Order


Will run anywhere from $300 to $400 depending on discount and current price offering by factory.


Pricey but VERY clean and professional.

 

[Rob95655]

Whelen 02-0463944-00

..."your search did not find any results" on Google. No documentation available on the internet anywhere? Sure that part number is right?

 

[Rob95655]

So I think I have an idea on how to use relays to be able to minimize the harness I need to run the light bar. The entire idea I am pursuing is to A) shrink the diameter of the wiring harness I have to run to the light bar - right now I have to run about 16 wires to the light bar (7 for basic functions and another 9 for the ta) and possibly B) make a quick disconnect that would use CAT5/6 cable as a 'trigger' wire set and run one larger size hot lead and ground lead, making the process of creating a quick-disconnect much easier.


I tackled the TA first because it is negatively switched...the regular light bar options are all straightforward. I drew up this little diagram, but I am thinking that if I wire it this way, I lose the ability to have a "high/low" feature. I personally don't mind this...I usually run it at high anyway since the truck is so tall. I am thinking if I want to save that ability, I'd have to run the power lead from the TA controller to pin 30 of the relays instead of 85. If I do that, then I can't run the positive lead from the TA controller via CAT5/6.


Is this what you guys think as well?

 

[shues]

If the TA is ground-side switched, do you really need to have both a "Positive Bus" and a "Switch Bus" in your setup? Why don't you have just one "Positive Bus" that provides +12v DC to both pin 30 and pin 85 of all eight relays?

 

[fire1]

So I think I have an idea on how to use relays to be able to minimize the harness I need to run the light bar. The entire idea I am pursuing is to A) shrink the diameter of the wiring harness I have to run to the light bar - right now I have to run about 16 wires to the light bar (7 for basic functions and another 9 for the TA) and possibly B) make a quick disconnect that would use CAT5/6 cable as a 'trigger' wire set and run one larger size hot lead and ground lead, making the process of creating a quick-disconnect much easier.

I tackled the TA first because it is negatively switched...the regular light bar options are all straightforward. I drew up this little diagram, but I am thinking that if I wire it this way, I lose the ability to have a "high/low" feature. I personally don't mind this...I usually run it at high anyway since the truck is so tall. I am thinking if I want to save that ability, I'd have to run the power lead from the TA controller to pin 30 of the relays instead of 85. If I do that, then I can't run the positive lead from the TA controller via CAT5/6.


Is this what you guys think as well?


View attachment 13666

I am glad you are going to do this electrical nightmare and not me.

 

[mjw357]

How bout we get really crazy. Figure out a way to make the right mount the 12v+, the left 12v-. Then control all functions with remote control (wireless). Now that I would like to see.

 

[fire1]

Newbie here, so bear with me...

So I have a 2000 Excursion I use to tow a search and rescue trailer for the FD. I had a 1st gen Expedition and just upgraded to get more pulling power.


I have an Edge 9000 amber with 4 strobes, alleys, two front flashers and a traffic director in back. A total of 16 leads if memory serves (all strobe hot, ground, rear strobe only hot relay, wig-wag hot, takedown hot, left alley hot, right alley hot, traffic director hot, 8 traffic director segments ground).


I made a custom wiring harness that worked for my Expy, but I hated the way I made it "quick disconnect" (running 16 wires in a split loom back across the roof, down the inside of the back hatch to two 9 pin Molex connectors). Mounting the bar to the roof rack made for quick removal on the Expy and should do the same for my Excursion. I want to do better for the wiring.


I guess I have three options and I am hoping for some advise.


1) Get a wiring kit from EBay that uses a serial board (4 wires to the bar - pos, neg and 2 signal wires) for $150 but give up the roof traffic director.


2) Make a new harness (truck side) that runs down the back hatch and keep hating the look


3) Try an experiment I have had in mind that would use heavy gage hot and grounds to the light bar, but use relays inside and cat-5 to carry the relay trigger (not even sure if that would work, but would make any harness much thinner).


Well...4) Go with the best/cheapest suggestion you guys have.


I AM willing to drill a hole in the roof (already planning on a through-the-roof NMO mount for my VHF/UHF radio...easy to have the shop drill a 2nd hole at the same time).


I won't use the light bar every day, but count on it being used once a month, sometimes more (we have 6 trailers and mine is the "show and tell" one), so I want my truck to look as clean as possible. I went so far as to install a lower dash panel from a F650 and put in 6 engraved Carlin switches instead of the bulky looking control boxes (well, that was to please the wife by keeping it looking as "stock" as possible but also looks much cleaner in my opinion).


My guy called Whelen and apparently they stopped selling the electrical quick-disconnect wiring kit. I am thinking one of those multi-pin military style bayonet or screw connectors, but I can't find them with connector pins that don't require a $400+ tool to crimp).


Advice?

Lets try this since you have amber you can not run codes with it. Plus you pull a trailer and I am guessing the trailer is taller than your truck so the TA is useless. Before you go spend any more money. Just go buy amber leds and mount them around your truck so you have 360 coverage. If you want a TA put one in the rear window. You can use strobe or leds in the corner lights front & back also. This way you do not have to take the bar off or put it back on. This will give you the clean look you want with no massive wiring headache.

 

[Rob95655]

If the TA is ground-side switched, do you really need to have both a "Positive Bus" and a "Switch Bus" in your setup? Why don't you have just one "Positive Bus" that provides +12v DC to both pin 30 and pin 85 of all eight relays?

The switch bus was just for a clean wire...I could run one lead and put taps in.

 

[Rob95655]

Lets try this since you have amber you can not run codes with it. Plus you pull a trailer and I am guessing the trailer is taller than your truck so the TA is useless. Before you go spend any more money. Just go buy amber leds and mount them around your truck so you have 360 coverage. If you want a TA put one in the rear window. You can use strobe or leds in the corner lights front & back also. This way you do not have to take the bar off or put it back on. This will give you the clean look you want with no massive wiring headache.

1) not spending any money, have a few dozen relays in the garage


2) the trailer is taller, but one the trailer gets on scene we disconnect


3) the strobes I do have in the "empty" reflector in the taillights seems to have warped the outer housing a bit (apparently too hot to run for more than 15-20 minutes at a standstill in CA heat). I have a set of Whelen HAW LED strobes on the way as a replacement - should be a decent fix).


4) I have a TA in the rear window (LED), but the factory tint dims them and to replace them in the light bar would involve spending money (replace the lenses and/or find other lights/strobes in their place


5) I do plan on some LEDs around the truck, but short of inside the rear panel windows, not sure on placement - and of course those have that nice dark factory tint I'm thinking some on the mirrors (I have the large towing ones) would be nice, but those are still forward facing mostly. Would the running boards be too low? Would side-facing ones on the roof rack rails be too high? It's a 4x4 Excursion (stock, not lifted).


6) True, we would never run code, but we do display the truck/trailer a bunch...LEDs attract attention and get people asking about the program.


The bar actually is wired up already, just trying to improve on what I have using the "scraps" I have in the garage...thought a thin CAT5/6 cable with a receptacle on the underside of the light bar and another in the roof (or a circular military style multi-pin connector) would be trick and clean.

 

[Rob95655]

Should have specified...currently I have 4 4w LED's in the grille (2 white, 2 amber), a LED TA in the rear (8 segment, 4w per segment), 2 strobes in the "empty" reflectors and 2 white 4w LEDs at the lic plate in the rear. Te Edge has corner strobes, alley lights, 2 clear work lights that can wig-wag and an 8 segment TA on the back.

 

[rwo978]

3) the strobes I do have in the "empty" reflector in the taillights seems to have warped the outer housing a bit (apparently too hot to run for more than 15-20 minutes at a standstill in CA heat). I have a set of Whelen HAW LED strobes on the way as a replacement - should be a decent fix).

Don't make me do this through the computer. It's LED or strobe, not both!!! :hissyfit: :duh: :hissyfit: :duh: