Whelen Rota-Beam Pattern Demo

[MHQ]

Hi Guys,


I shot this at work after the Whelen rep dropped this off for me. Thoughts? Comments? As always, enjoy the video!

 

[MtnMan]

Neat, but much of the output is gong to be wasted in most mounting locations.

 

[MHQ]

How is that? I purposefully shot from the top to decrease the flash so the camera would pick up the pattern. The light is ridiculously bright.

 

[MtnMan]

As a standalone roof beacon, great. But it seems like more an item that would be used as a secondary light (e.g., rear corners) and on most newer trucks, it's either going to be too high, or blocked by the vehicle body.

 

[Zoe]

Some very interesting patterns at the end there... it would be interesting to see what they look like sync'd up and in various applications.


Although I didn't see any all-beacon flash modes... more like a strobe pattern (opposed to a rotator pattern) did I just miss it?

 

[MHQ]

Some very interesting patterns at the end there... it would be interesting to see what they look like sync'd up and in various applications.

Although I didn't see any all-beacon flash modes... more like a strobe pattern (opposed to a rotator pattern) did I just miss it?

It doesn't do them due to heat...

 

[mdlighting]

How much are those running? I would love 2 of those and some par 36 led flashers on a cross bar for my jeep lol

 

[MHQ]

$536ea.....

 

[mdlighting]

OMG never mind

 

[kinnelonfire75]

$536ea.....

 

[Zoe]

It doesn't do them due to heat...

Fascinating.


It's a shame that there wasn't an engineering solution to get around that. Seems like it would have been a great "all purpose" beacon... instead of having to spec a light based not on size or shape but on available patterns.

 

[JohnMarcson]

The rotation is quite believable, I really like the concept. First person to buy 7, synch them and arrange them in a "V" on a vehicle worth less than the lights gets a free premium membership upgrade for life.


I would love to see variable degree of "blackout" or 270 degree or less patterns. At least a front cutoff would be nice. Perhaps the option exists already and wasn't shown.


For those scared off by the list price, take a look at the latest Whelen price list. Then go to any internet store that sells Whelen and look at the actual price. Then check our sales forums around when peoples' holiday bills show up. Forget the price, it's in line with other premium LED beacons. With how hard whelen is pushing this module in different applications, the price will only come down anyway.


-edit- I was incorrect. I did more research and found why heat is a factor. See replies below--


As far as flashing it, I have called BS on the heat excuse from the start. I fail to see how flashing it would be a heat concern as long as the on-time was similar. However, I no longer even want this feature, because it would probably be split flashed in 40 segments or some sort of pattern to negate it's effectiveness to appeal to twinkle junkies. It's a sim-rotator, so be it. I think having only rotating patterns is both a marketing and an economics based decision, but not necessarily a bad one. This light is designed to exceed actual rotating LEDs, and it might just do that. From a marketing standpoint, doing anything other than rotating is counter productive at product launch. You want people focused on the main feature; "I can't believe it's not rotating". Later if the concept sells they may invest money into more features. Features take money and time to devolop and certify. The optics are designed for sim-rotation. All good reasons. Heat might play a small role and would restrict flash pattens too much, but I suspect that's not the main reason.


-edit- I was incorrect. I did some more research and realized on time vs. off time isn't the only factor. The flash rate of the 12 individual 3 led vertical groups translates directly to the flash rate of the rotator effect. The issue is sequence and subsequent total number activated at one time. Flashing all of them simultaneously increases the total number on at one time by aprox 90%. Don't look at it as how long each led is activated total.....that's not changed. It's when they are activated compared to others around them. Think of it as having 66 of them activated at once producing more heat than having 9 of them activated at once.

 

[MHQ]

I would love to see variable degree of "blackout" or 270 degree or less patterns. At least a front cutoff would be nice. Perhaps the option exists already and wasn't shown.

As far as flashing it, I have called BS on the heat excuse from the start. I fail to see how flashing it would be a heat concern as long as the on-time was similar. However, I no longer even want this feature, because it would probably be split flashed in 40 segments or some sort of pattern to negate it's effectiveness to appeal to twinkle junkies. It's a sim-rotator, so be it. I think having rotators only patterns is both marketing and economic based decision, but not necessarily a bad one. This light is designed to exceed actual rotating LEDs, and it might just do that. From a marketing standpoint, doing anything other than rotating is counter productive at product launch. You want people focused on the main feature; "I can't believe it's not rotating". Later if the concept sells they may invest money into more features. Features take money and time. Whelen also gets SAE certification. The optics are designed for sim-rotation. All good reasons. Heat might play a small role and would restrict flash pattens too much, but I suspect that's not the main reason.


For those scared off by the list price,take a look at the latest Whelen price list. http://www.whelen.com/pb/Automotive/PriceLists/01_Automotive_Price_List-13.1.pdf Then go to any internet store that sells whelen and look at the actual price. Then check our sales forums after peoples' holiday bills show up. Forget the price, it's in line with other premium LED beacons.

The LED's are fully powered. To do a "flash" they would have to cut the power. It was tried repeatedly with LED failure. I suggested "strobing" just the center row of LED's, We'll see. It is outstanding though, in broad daylight at 100 feet. You have to think it is actually rotating...your mind makes you think it.

 

[JohnMarcson]

The LED's are fully powered. To do a "flash" they would have to cut the power. It was tried repeatedly with LED failure. I suggested "strobing" just the center row of LED's, We'll see. It is outstanding though, in broad daylight at 100 feet. You have to think it is actually rotating...your mind makes you think it.

BS may be a strong term.... I just don't think "heat" is a complete answer. That may be their failure point, but with what patterns? They are designed to do what they do very very well, flashing solidly all together is not what they were designed to do, and that's fine. Investing the money to get them to flash isn't a priority and shouldn't be anyway.


The bottom line is the benefit/cost balance is skewed against developing a flash mode. I'm all for them focusing on making the best sim rotator before making it other things.


The ability to simulate motion with LED has existed long before warning lights. It's high time it made a suitable appearance.

 

[Torpedo]

Looks good. I wonder how it would be through an unfluted lens?

 

[dawson75]

two of these on the back of a engine or one justice lightbar

 

[nerdly_dood]

BS may be a strong term.... I just don't think "heat" is a complete answer. That may be their failure point, but with what patterns. I bet the dwell time they are meant for is so low that the patterns it would take would be awful. They are designed to do what they do very very well, flashing solidly all together is not what they were designed to do, and that's fine. Investing the money to get them to flash isn't a priority and shouldn't be anyway.

Strobes have a stupidly quick flash duration - just flash all the diodes together briefly enough and with enough off-time that heat isn't a concern, and you've got a 2-in-one pseudo-strobe and rotator.

 

[SomeBloke]

If that lens/dome was Red the entire Michigan based members would be on this thread like obese rednecks on their sisters!


Disclaimer: Michigan members are not obese rednecks who commit intercourse with their sisters

 

[JohnMarcson]

Strobes have a stupidly quick flash duration - just flash all the diodes together briefly enough and with enough off-time that heat isn't a concern, and you've got a 2-in-one pseudo-strobe and rotator.

I thought the same thing, but I was wrong. I did some more research and realized on time vs. off time isn't the only factor. The flash rate of the 12 individual 3 led vertical groups translates directly to the flash rate of the rotator effect. The issue is sequence and subsequent total number activated at one time. Flashing all of them simultaneously increases the total number on at one time by aprox 90%.


Don't look at it as how long each led is activated total.....that's not changed. It's when they are activated compared to others around them. Think of it as having 66 of them activated at once producing more heat than having 9 of them activated at once.

 

[SomeBloke]

I thought the same thing, but I was wrong. I did some more research and realized on time vs. off time isn't the only factor. The flash rate of the 12 individual 3 led vertical groups translates directly to the flash rate of the rotator effect. The issue is sequence and subsequent total number activated at one time. Flashing all of them simultaneously increases the total number on at one time by aprox 90%.

Don't look at it as how long each led is activated total.....that's not changed. It's when they are activated compared to others around them. Think of it as having 66 of them activated at once producing more heat than having 9 of them activated at once.

It sounds quite similar to lighting a piece of charcoal on fire, then realising you've already got a barbecue full of it.

 

[bluestinger90]

I thought the same thing, but I was wrong. I did some more research and realized on time vs. off time isn't the only factor. The flash rate of the 12 individual 3 led vertical groups translates directly to the flash rate of the rotator effect. The issue is sequence and subsequent total number activated at one time. Flashing all of them simultaneously increases the total number on at one time by aprox 90%.

Don't look at it as how long each led is activated total.....that's not changed. It's when they are activated compared to others around them. Think of it as having 66 of them activated at once producing more heat than having 9 of them activated at once.

I don't think heat should be an issue. I've only seen the delta rota beam frames, and it's just a circular metal plate with the leds mounted on the side surface attached to the lightbar frame. There's probably some room to add more metal in the stand alone beacons.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I don't think heat should be an issue. I've only seen the delta rota beam frames, and it's just a circular metal plate with the leds mounted on the side surface attached to the lightbar frame. There's probably some room to add more metal in the stand alone beacons.

Yet it is an issue.........


When flashed all together at full power these failed a too high a rate to produce with the feature. I agree this probably could be rectified by adding metal or other heat mitigating system. That adds weight, money and time. I doubt they want to invest more time and material into the product for something that may actually distract from the product concept.


This is brand new technology to the warning industry. The financially responsible way to build a product like this is to make a working base model first. Then you figure out if it's even popular enough to deserve the additional resources needed to make multiple models. There are some companies that will release products with features they know don't work or are prone to failure. The engineering time needed to add this feature properly was not justifiable, so rather than release a shoddy product, they didn't add the feature.


Whatever the reason..............To get the product done at the quality, price and rate required, the full flash could not be included. Kudos for not including a candy cane pinwheel pattern instead. Kudos for not including releasing a failure prone product. Whelen is focusing on the sim-rotator feature, let's move on.

 

[MHQ]

Yet it is an issue.........

When flashed all together at full power these failed a too high a rate to produce with the feature. I agree this probably could be rectified by adding metal or other heat mitigating system. That adds weight, money and time. I doubt they want to invest more time and material into the product for something that may actually distract from the product concept.


This is brand new technology to the warning industry. The financially responsible way to build a product like this is to make a working base model first. Then you figure out if it's even popular enough to deserve the additional resources needed to make multiple models. There are some companies that will release products with features they know don't work or are prone to failure. The engineering time needed to add this feature properly was not justifiable, so rather than release a shoddy product, they didn't add the feature.


Whatever the reason..............To get the product done at the quality, price and rate required, the full flash could not be included. Kudos for not including a candy cane pinwheel pattern instead. Kudos for not including releasing a failure prone product. Whelen is focusing on the sim-rotator feature, let's move on.

Hey John,


I believe it is wattage along with heat. Something with the multiplied wattage of all the LED's together. 1/2 sec bursts is still a prob. You are correct in saying...make the best sim rotator possible.. the L31/32 are available to those who need a "strobe" LED beacon as opposed to a rotating LED beacon...

 

[dmathieu]

Steve, how does brightness / intensity compare between the rotator on slow rotation, and the L31 on 75 single FPM or "signalalert"?


Which gives more light output?

 

[MHQ]

Steve, how does brightness / intensity compare between the rotator on slow rotation, and the L31 on 75 single FPM or "signalalert"?
Which gives more light output?

Hi Dan,


It's hard to tell. I would say the L31 is a bit brighter but the "action" you get from the rotator off of surrounding objects is unmatched. The L31 has all 4 sides illuminated at once as well which fills the dome whereas the rotator illuminated only the section that is actually flashing at you.


Thank you,


Steve


MHQ

 

[dmathieu]

Hi Dan,

It's hard to tell. I would say the L31 is a bit brighter but the "action" you get from the rotator off of surrounding objects is unmatched. The L31 has all 4 sides illuminated at once as well which fills the dome whereas the rotator illuminated only the section that is actually flashing at you.


Thank you,


Steve


MHQ

That's what I figured. I think I'll stay with the L31. Thanks Steve.

 

[pdk9]

I love them, and their flash patterns do a good job of mimic-ing the look of a halogen beacon IMO


Unfortunately, I had a feeling they were gonna be pricey, since the L-series aren't something you just pick up from sirennet for $50 :-(


Steve, how many LEDs are inside the rotabeam?

As a standalone roof beacon, great. But it seems like more an item that would be used as a secondary light (e.g., rear corners) and on most newer trucks, it's either going to be too high, or blocked by the vehicle body.

I dont think it's any different than other beacons, lightheads, and mini lightbars that are mounted on trucks; with trucks being long & wide there are not many cases, short of mounting one to the top of a Willburt Night Scan light tower, where you will have a truly 360 beacon on a truck (on the rear corners of trucks, for example, hose beds, suction, aerial devices, the lighting on the opposite side of the vehicle, etc are inevitably going to often obstruct the lighting on 1-2 sides of the unit)

 

[car54]

I'd love to see whelen do a double sided rotating pattern. Like 2 sealed beams rotating only it would be LED's.


O' ya about the pattern like I just described but upon rotating it would rotate backwards then foward again.

 

[JohnMarcson]

Hey John,

I believe it is wattage along with heat. Something with the multiplied wattage of all the LED's together. 1/2 sec bursts is still a prob. You are correct in saying...make the best sim rotator possible.. the L31/32 are available to those who need a "strobe" LED beacon as opposed to a rotating LED beacon...

People, including me at first, need to accept that it is designed for a very specific purpose. The possible applications are nearly endless when used for what it was intended, simulated motion..... it doesn't need to strobe.