When will enough, be enough??

[Fluffy126577]

Detroit firefighters barred from aerials after years-long lapse in safety inspections


Firefighters will not be allowed on the aerial ladders, for as long as 6 weeks, unless there is an "immediate threat to life"


From Fire Service, Firefighters & Departments | Fire Rescue 1


Detroit firefighters barred from aerials after years-long lapse in safety inspections

DETROIT — Detroit firefighters will no longer be allowed on their department's fleet of aerial truck hydraulic ladders because the vehicles have not been inspected for years.

Firefighters will only be allowed on the ladders if there is an "immediate threat to life" according to the Detroit Free Press.


Fire Commissioner Donald Austin said that firefighters will not be allowed on the ladders during water tower operations until the safety inspections are completed.


Commissioner Austin says that the new rule will minimally impact firefighters, but the union members disagree.


"What this means is, it greatly complicates our work, and it really makes it difficult for any fire that's over a couple stories high," said Dan McNamara, president of the Detroit firefighters union. "It minimizes our ability to put the fire out and also minimizes us to be safe as we're doing ventilation and rescue operations."

When will enough be enough Detroit? When will you finally rise up like a Phoenix and re-claim your city?? My thoughts and prayers are going out to the Police/Fire/EMS departments there.

 

[pdk9]

"...because the vehicles have not been inspected for years."


Oh, well in THAT case, I guess it's okay then?!?!?


This is not redneckville, where they're in the middle of nowhere, run 10 calls a year, and have minimal funding....more than anybody else, big metropolitan departments should be inspecting their apparatus annually! Cities like NY, Detroit, Chicago, etc run heavy call volume and really give their rigs a beating. I hope that some of the admins/operational chiefs lose their jobs over something as outrageous as telling metro firefighters not to use one of their most important tools unless it's ultimately a life or death situation, especially given the nature of what firefighters do and respond to.


In addition to basic, standard monthly or quarterly maintenance that can be done by the crews (ie lubricating outer parts), certified techs should be doing maintenance and testing on their equipment regularly; I'm sure these cities have factory-trained techs in their fleet services dept.s, and there are 3rd party companies are available for testing (they are especially used with smaller departments that don't have their own maintenance departments and by various sized departments that like to outsource to put liability on other entities). Although they are only recommendations, NFPA are the national standards that any lawyer will reference in litigation, and they clearly aren't meeting anything resembling NFPA standards (or common sense) if nobody inspects their apparatus (if my memory serves me correctly, NFPA 1914 suggests annual inspection and operational testing and NDT at least every 5 yrs, plus anytime there's repairs, damage/potential damage, etc). However, when u have units that go out an avg of 15+ times in a 24 hr period/365 days of the year, you need to exceed their minimum recommendations for safety and (since city commissioners don't care about us as individuals or our safety) to avoid costly lawsuits resulting from injured personnel or victims

 

[FatherOfFour]

When will enough be enough Detroit? When will you finally rise up like a Phoenix and re-claim your city?? My thoughts and prayers are going out to the Police/Fire/EMS departments there.

I hate to say it, but I doubt Detroit will be rising up as anything more than a zombie. That city has died, it just doesn't realize it yet. I was offered a job up there a few years back, good money (especially for the area) but I didn't want to move my family up to a town I see as a dying place. I think that's the problem at this point, even if they have some great idea to revive the area getting people to move into the area to actually do the revitalizing is going to be darn near impossible. It's sad, Detroit used be a pretty cool place!

 

[FSEP]

Detroit is a hell hole. Theres not much more you can say to discribe it.


With that said, if detroit wants to save some money, have more man power, more frequent EQUIPMENT checks, then maybe, just maybe... They should become a combo department. I know, its a crazy idea, volunteer firefighters serving such a huge city. That would just be a horrible idea.

 

[FireEMSPolice]

The Fire Commissioner is a disgrace and needs to resign or be fired. That could also apply to most of the senior command staff. He does NOT have the best interests of the staff/department or city in mind. There is NO excuse for this. First it was out of service EMS units, now ladders? Wow!

 

[WS224]

The Fire Commissioner is a disgrace and needs to resign or be fired. That could also apply to most of the senior command staff. He does NOT have the best interests of the staff/department or city in mind. There is NO excuse for this. First it was out of service EMS units, now ladders? Wow!

With this singular incident, I am curious how you derived the opinion that "he does not have the best interests of the staff/department or city in mind".......

 

[chief1562]

With this singular incident, I am curious how you derived the opinion that "he does not have the best interests of the staff/department or city in mind".......

Are you fracking serious?


It's very clear that you don't have a clue as to what is going on.


There has been several discusstion on the condition of Detroit in the forum.


You need to look around the forum before you open your stupid a@@ mouth.


The intire City from the mayor on down is corrupt.

 

[WS224]

Are you fracking serious?
It's very clear that you don't have a clue as to what is going on.


There has been several discusstion on the condition of Detroit in the forum.


You need to look around the forum before you open your stupid a@@ mouth.


The intire City from the mayor on down is corrupt.

No, I know exactly what is going on with everything else. I asked about his sole issue.

 

[NYBLS]

With this singular incident, I am curious how you derived the opinion that "he does not have the best interests of the staff/department or city in mind".......

If he cared about his men, their equipment would have been inspected.

 

[FireEMSPolice]

WS224, its more then this incident but I will put together this list off the top of my head


- Ladder/aerial apparatus out of service due to lack of inspection


- EMS units out of service causing other units in a similar state of disrepair to increase response times and run all shift long


- Fire and EMS staff written up/suspended for petty reasons


- Promising more staff, not delivering on said promise.


- Firehouses in deteriorating condition and many should not be inhabited


I could go on and on but I have to get to work here in a bit. I am sure the search function can help you the rest of the way

 

[50theman]

Watch all 4 of Charlie Leduff's "Detroit 2012 the movie" Then you will understand.


Detroit 2012: The Movie (A Charlie LeDuff Special) - Fox 2 News Headlines

 

[WS224]

I already understand. I think it may be some of you who do not.


I agree that ALL of that stuff should have been done. How many Chiefs do they have to go through before you realize that his hands are tied as well?


The City of Detroit is broke. All the stuff that needs to be done cannot be done with no money. In this instance, I would suspect that the Chief did the only thing he could do - No money to do inspections - don't use the sticks.


I'm not a fan of Detroits leadership, but what do you want the Chief to do - pay for it out of his pocket?


As far as we know, this is a shrewd and clever move on behalf of the Chief to make the City pay for aerial inspections.

 

[50theman]

I already understand. I think it may be some of you who do not.

I agree that ALL of that stuff should have been done. How many Chiefs do they have to go through before you realize that his hands are tied as well?


The City of Detroit is broke. All the stuff that needs to be done cannot be done with no money. In this instance, I would suspect that the Chief did the only thing he could do - No money to do inspections - don't use the sticks.


I'm not a fan of Detroits leadership, but what do you want the Chief to do - pay for it out of his pocket?


As far as we know, this is a shrewd and clever move on behalf of the Chief to make the City pay for aerial inspections.

If you understand so much, how come you don't realize they have a Fire Commissioner, not a Fire Chief.

 

[WS224]

I don't have anything intelligent to say, so I am gonna be a technicality natzi.

Fire Chief is generally accepted as the generic term for the MF'er in charge. Technically we have a Director, but he's still the fire chief to me.

 

[FireEMSPolice]

WS224, they have had offers from mechanically inclined people to repair EMS vehicles so they can be put back in service for FREE. Nobody at city hall or the commissioners office has returned phone calls to these folks.


If Detroit is so broke, why does each member of city council have a city issued Ford CVPI issued to them?


Why does each council meeting need 8 police officers to guard that meeting?


Please watch the series that 50theman posted. It will give you insight as to whats going in with Detroit PD and FD.


The waste and abuse in Detroit, especially regarding their safety forces goes on and on.

 

[50theman]

Fire Chief is generally accepted as the generic term for the MF'er in charge. Technically we have a Director, but he's still the fire chief to me.

If I were going to speak intelligently, you would not understand me. Mainly, because you have the skill set of, I know everything.


No, Fire Chief is not the generic term for Fire Commissioner everwhere. If you were to say Fire Chief in the FDNY that means Chief of the Department, not his boss the Fire Commissioner. Do I need to break it down more so you understand?


On a personal note, since you called me a "Nazi". You are a arrogant son of a bitch, that contributes nothing but negativity in many of your posts and your confrontational and pretty much just an ass to everyone on here.

 

[FireEMSPolice]

Here is Charlie LeDuff's story


Detroit Fire Department memo: Aerial ladders are unsafe for use - Fox 2 News Headlines

 

[chief1562]

If I were going to speak intelligently, you would not understand me. Mainly, because you the skill set of, I know everything.

No, Fire Chief is not the generic term for Fire Commissioner everwhere. If you were to say Fire Chief in the FDNY that means Chief of the Department, not his boss the Fire Commissioner. Do I need to break it down more so you understand?


On a personal note, since you called me a "Nazi". You are a arrogant son of a bitch, that contributes nothing but negativity in many of your posts and your confrontational and pretty much just an ass to everyone on here.

Bout time somebody said something to that ignorent SOB. Thinks his way of thinking is the only way.


Now back on topic.

 

[FatherOfFour]

Why does each council meeting need 8 police officers to guard that meeting?

Maybe cause Detroit is such a cesspool of poverty and violence that 8 cops is the only way the corrupt idiots in charge can be relatively sure they won't get killed?


I will say that everywhere I've lived it's pretty common to see uniformed police on duty @ council meetings, especially if something contentious is going to be discussed.


However, the fact remains, Detroit is broke, Detroit has no REAL chance of emerging from their situation. I don't know what the answer is though, I mean, at least with California we can hope their broke State will break off and fall into the ocean.....maybe the Great Lakes could swallow Detroit? lol

 

[FireEMSPolice]

Maybe cause Detroit is such a cesspool of poverty and violence that 8 cops is the only way the corrupt idiots in charge can be relatively sure they won't get killed?

I will say that everywhere I've lived it's pretty common to see uniformed police on duty @ council meetings, especially if something contentious is going to be discussed.

I understand having some sort of police presence at council meetings. But 8 officers for a regular meeting? Sure, increase security if its a hot topic, but 8 is much for a regular meeting.

 

[FatherOfFour]

I understand having some sort of police presence at council meetings. But 8 officers for a regular meeting? Sure, increase security if its a hot topic, but 8 is much for a regular meeting.

8 cops is the only way the corrupt idiots in charge can be relatively sure they won't get killed?

Forbes named Detroit the number 1 most dangerous city to live in in 2012. I'd think that the people of Detroit might have just cause to be pretty perturbed with the Idiots in Charge.

 

[WS224]

If I were going to speak intelligently, you would not understand me. Mainly, because you the skill set of, I know everything.

No, Fire Chief is not the generic term for Fire Commissioner everwhere. If you were to say Fire Chief in the FDNY that means Chief of the Department, not his boss the Fire Commissioner. Do I need to break it down more so you understand?


On a personal note, since you called me a "Nazi". You are a arrogant son of a bitch, that contributes nothing but negativity in many of your posts and your confrontational and pretty much just an ass to everyone on here.

Your not speaking at all, your typing......and not very well.


I didn't say everywhere, I said generally. You named one other other department that uses the term Commisioner. I would venture to say that generally, the vast majority of the 25,000 other fire departments in the country use "Fire Chief".


I didn't call you a "nazi". That is not even a word. I called you a "technicality natzi". Looking at your grammar and spelling in the selection above I can see I was incorrect.


Lastly, ignorant people are easily intimidated. Study your English and reading comprehension and you will learn that stating facts or offering opinions does not make one arrogant or confrontational, it creates debate in which you are free to agree or disagree with.

 

[WS224]

And before you say, "oh yeah, oh yeah.......what about Boston?"


I know, they have a Fire Commisioner as well.

 

[Hoff]

You're not speaking at all, you're typing......and not very well.

I didn't say everywhere, I said generally. You named one other other department that uses the term Commisioner. I would venture to say that generally, the vast majority of the 25,000 other fire departments in the country use "Fire Chief".


I didn't call you a "nazi". That is not even a word. I called you a "technicality natzi". Looking at your grammar and spelling in the selection above I can see I was incorrect.


Lastly, ignorant people are easily intimidated. Study your English and reading comprehension and you will learn that stating facts or offering opinions does not make one arrogant or confrontational, it creates debate in which you are free to agree or disagree with.

Fixed that for you.

 

[WS224]

Fixed that for you.

Touché Hoff.


You got me on the first one, don't see what you fixed on the 2nd.

 

[Hoff]

You called on others to study English, yet you made a very easily fixed gramatical error. Hello pot, I'm kettle.

 

[nerdly_dood]

Not even on page 2 yet and look at it. :haha:


Well I guess this is what happens when a city bites the dust as hard as Detroit did. Gonna second whoever said it'd be a good idea to switch to a combination department.

 

[WS224]

You called on others to study English, yet you made a very easily fixed gramatical error. Hello pot, I'm kettle.

It happens.

 

[50theman]

Your not speaking at all, your typing......and not very well.

I didn't say everywhere, I said generally. You named one other other department that uses the term Commisioner. I would venture to say that generally, the vast majority of the 25,000 other fire departments in the country use "Fire Chief".


I didn't call you a "nazi". That is not even a word. I called you a "technicality natzi". Looking at your grammar and spelling in the selection above I can see I was incorrect.


Lastly, ignorant people are easily intimidated. Study your English and reading comprehension and you will learn that stating facts or offering opinions does not make one arrogant or confrontational, it creates debate in which you are free to agree or disagree with.

Check your dictation, it is Nazi not Natzi. Just Google it. Oh, I forgot you know everything.


Just FYI, mostly every Fire Department Volunteer or Paid in New York State has Fire Commissioners. Most don't have a single thing to do with the Operation side of the Fire Department, they are like the Board of Directors. I guess you don't get out much, if you would attend FDIC or Firehouse Expo for classes, you would see this. Oh, that's right you know it all. Maybe you should go, so you can teach all those Fire Instructor how to do it. As for the statistics you gave of 25,000. There are over 50,000 FDID numbers for New York State alone. So you are a little off on those statistics.


Lastly, you don't intimidate me at all. Your just some keyboard tough guy, that trolls with nothing better too do then start crap. You feel that you know everything and your way is the best. You should really learn to get over yourself.


I'm going to be the better man here, this has to end. We are getting way off topic. So to the op I apologize and will not reply to this individual anymore in this thread.

 

[WS224]

I am a certified Fire Instructor and have taught at FDIC. I was speaking of paid fire departments and I have said nothing of "my way" or being right, nor did I say you were wrong.

 

[foxtrot5]

OK OK! You're BOTH pretty, can we move on?


Back on topic, I've always been facinated with Detroit and the history of the area that led to the decline the city is currently in. If I was still single and didn't have a kid, I'd gladly live there and work DPD or DFD. I think it's a shame that it was once such a great city and it's citizens, from the top leadership down to the dope slinging thugs have let it down. (Being married and having just had my first kid, I don't think my wife would like the idea of me working in Detroit. )

 

[Zoe]

In the interest of clarity:


A Fire/Police/Etc "Commissioner" is a civilian (non-FF/PD/etc) administrator for the department. They can be elected or appointed (by a mayor, for example).


A Fire/Police/Etc "Chief" is a department member who has been promoted through the ranks to the top position(s).


This is the established meaning for these respective terms. If it is different in your area, just be aware that your situation is irregular and not convention.


Some departments have one or the other... some have both. The Commissioner is the senior person, and chiefs must report to him/her.


(The idea is that the head FF would be the chief, and would be in charge of day-to-day operations and FD specific situations. May even take command on a fire scene. A commissioner on the other hand is the the administrator and deals with managing of budgets, employee roles, etc. The appreciation being that the world's best FF may not have the right skill set to administrate a large municipal department, and vice versa. Think of it as a CEO vs. the most senior and ranking FF.)

 

[chrismartin1701]

WS224


dude, here is what you need to do.. you need to open your mind, open your eyes, pay attention, silence your mouth and wrap up your hands and listen to what these guys are telling you. i was in the same boat not long ago. i thought i knew everything i was talking about and it landed me into a situation i couldnt get out of because in reality i had absolutely no idea what i was talking about and refused to see it that way. when i saw your posts i saw a reflection of myself from back then. you need to stop "thinking" and start listening because all you're doing right now is making yourself look like a jackass. so i suggest you dig your ass out of the hole you just made for yourself before it gets any deeper.

 

[Jarred J.]

:weird: :weird: :weird: :weird: :weird: :weird: :bonk: :crackup: :crackup: :stars:

WS224

dude, here is what you need to do.. you need to open your mind, open your eyes, pay attention, silence your mouth and wrap up your hands and listen to what these guys are telling you. i was in the same boat not long ago. i thought i knew everything i was talking about and it landed me into a situation i couldnt get out of because in reality i had absolutely no idea what i was talking about and refused to see it that way. when i saw your posts i saw a reflection of myself from back then. you need to stop "thinking" and start listening because all you're doing right now is making yourself look like a jackass. so i suggest you dig your ass out of the hole you just made for yourself before it gets any deeper.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :haha: :haha: :haha: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

i cant laugh at this as much online as i am in real life!!

 

[WS224]

Odd.....I didnt give a shit or chuckle.

 

[chrismartin1701]

Odd.....I didnt give a shit or chuckle.

and thats your problem. perhaps if you took the time and actually gave a shit, then maybe people on here might be able to tolerate you. but no. instead you would rather play Mr funny man and in turn make yourself look like an uneducated jackass.

 

[Fluffy126577]

Feds to launch investigation into Detroit's failing EMS system - Fox 2 News Headlines


I know that this thread is about the fire department, but I can't help but think that this is the positive kick. P.S., as a grow man, I almost lost it with the firefighter at the back of the rig.

 

[Light It Up]

I would move and work for free for a few months any day any week

 

[WS224]

I would move and work for free for a few months any day any week

I am sure the guys there struggling to keep their jobs would love that.

 

[OSP959(R)]

I don't generally like the media, but I like Charlie LeDuff from Fox News. I like his persistence to bring Detroit's problems to light to try and get something done about it.