your policy for "legal forced entry"

[Jarred J.]

did that get your attention?


LOL


Ok so the other night a call goes out for a 90 yr old male who hit the button on his med alert for an ambulance. he tells dispatch "all doors are locked and I cant get to them"


Ambulance rolls up and cant see patient in any windows, doors are locked.


FD shows up and SO is called as well...


I didn't hear how it ended but what is your "policy" for "legal forced entry" when life is in danger? which "emergency service" makes the call and which one does the deed in your area?


does SO, PD make the entry for EMS


does EMS do it


does FD do it under directive of SO, PD?

 

[MEVS06]

In my area LEOs make entry and make sure the scene is secure for everyone else to make entry. We wouldnt want a EMT or FF to get shot or hurt while making entry.

 

[timlinson]

Same^

 

[FSEP]

In my area LEOs make entry and make sure the scene is secure for everyone else to make entry. We wouldnt want a EMT or FF to get shot or hurt while making entry.

This. But to expand on it, if we're called to a residence (EMS call) and told the doors are locked and they can't get to them, then yeah we do a forced entry. Depending on the situation, we might try to get a family member there or try to find a spare key so we don't have to break the door.


On the Fire side, pretty much the same unless it's an AFA with no known life hazzards and now obvious signs of smoke of flame, then we just look around and try to make contact with someone.


PD wise, if you call us, its fair game for the most part.

 

[JazzDad]

Our medical first responders are fire department members. After making sure there is no one to open it up, we just take a Halligan and get to work.

 

[gallagher073]

In Connecticut there is a state statute that protects me and the department should I need to force entry.


It is IDEAL to have a LEO there but that doesn't always happen. Our policy is if you need to get in, then do it.


For the few times I have needed to force entry, I always did so in a manner that allowed me to re-secure the house (and with minimal damage)


We like to take a metal coat-hanger to the garage door, always works well. Most people don't lock the doors leading into garages. No damage, excellent access.

 

[FireMedic19]

As a Medic, I am allowed to force entry if life is at risk, as in a unresponsive/full arrest/respiratory arrest. I've done it twice in the past year. I just have to document why I did not have time to wait for the fire department to come and force entry.

 

[Firefly Berlin]

In Berlin firefighters have the same legal status as LEOs and are cross trained emt's and paramedics.


So basicly we do the forced entry on all fire and ems scenes.


If PD needs forced entry and no SWAT/ SRT is needed we do it for them.


But PD always responds with us so we can leave for other calls and they take care of the "aftermath".

 

[chief1562]

Fire dept and or ems.Times awasting calling fot Leo help just advice dispatch that it's being a forced entry call and add to run sheet to protect ones assets.

 

[Squad-6]

EMS only on scene, notify LE and see if they can find a way in without "breaking in". If not FD is sent to break in. This is only if visual on patient or patient is on the line. Other wise dispatch tries to find a key holder to come to scene.


FD breaks in but has LE enroute. This is only if visual on patient or patient is on the line. Other wise dispatch tries to find a key holder to come to scene.

 

[foxtrot5]

FD: fire related call - visible smoke/fire is free reign to force anything we want, anything else call for a key-holder or LEOs


FD: ems call - caller on the line with 911 stating they are in the home w/ doors locked and they can see us outside, dispatcher will advise that we can get in but it will probably damage something, it's the callers decision. if they say no, we attempt to contact a family member/neighbor/other key-holder and call for LEOs just in case.


My FD has also been called out by LEOs to assist in forcing entry but we will not do it on an non-burning building without LEOs present or homeowner's permission.

 

[JazzDad]

So, the consensus seems to be the FD will break in. (Let's admit it- the FD likes to break in. They live for this opportunity.)

 

[Carlos SpicyWeiner]

Depends on who is there first here. I love getting there first... kick door... flash bang... go clear... then render aid

 

[JazzDad]

... flash bang...

Thanks, Fever. I now have an image of you in an overcoat. Eye bleach, stat!

 

[FSEP]

Depends on who is there first here. I love getting there first... kick door... flash bang... go clear... then render aid

*note to self, start carrying a flash bang on my duty belt*

 

[Phillyrube]

In my area LEOs make entry and make sure the scene is secure for everyone else to make entry. We wouldnt want a EMT or FF to get shot or hurt while making entry.

We let Fire force the door, then PD will clear the house. No paperwork on the PD's part, and Fire documents the door on their report. EMS sits down the street with a compartment full of tools but no idea how to use them!!

 

[Station 3]

We let Fire force the door, then PD will clear the house. No paperwork on the PD's part, and Fire documents the door on their report. EMS sits down the street with a compartment full of tools but no idea how to use them!!

Thats what i would do.. I would let FIRE force entry so that when its time to go back to the office to do my report i did not do it was FD also kicking in doors is not really that fun or easy. I have done all three lines of work FIRE,EMS,POLICE and i know that FD has the tools to get the job done when opening doors forcibly.

 

[calebsheltonmed23]

I don't believe my dept's have a policy, but they may. I do know what I have done though. EMS wise, if it's non-life threatening (i.e. little old lady fell, possible hip fx, CAOx3 or 4, etc.), call LE and they'll kick in the door or whatever they want. If it is threatening of life or limb (i.e. cardiac/resp. arrest, amputation, etc.), make entry IF fire or LE isn't there already. I've kicked in a few doors, it doesn't bother me. The phrase "life over limb" also applies in this situation..."life over properly closing door". lol. Just document what you did and why, and of course make sure LE is en route. I would rather go to court on kicking a door in on a cardiac arrest than to have a lawyer rip me apart on a cardiac arrest where I twiddled my thumbs for 20 minutes waiting for a fireman or LEO to respond.

 

[justavillain]

For a medical we get pd on scene and they get authorized to force and we do it with the least amount of damage as possible. A lot of the times we try and get the apartment office to open it for us or hopefully they have a Knox box


For Fire no prior authorization needed we go in and get shit done.


For welfare checks pd will call us and we open the door or give them the irons to do it.

 

[tnems7]

Tennessee's EMS laws also protect EMS personnel for liability for forced entry or trespass when they are responding to an emergency (911) call. (Part of the 1983 EMS act.) Fire personnel already had similar laws. Most of the policies are as described by ***************** lights, but most field responders probably don't know the law or local policies.


Because of the reporting and scene safety concerns, most emergency responders would appreciate LEOs on scene, but the fire department (or a rescue squad) probably has the best equipment to make forced entry.


In my personal experience, I have kicked or forced doors on several occurences when smoke was visible, used door jamb tools, climbed ladders to go through open windows, broken glass to undo door locks, and rabbited door frames with a jack to access a woman who had fallen down stairs (and had a toddler roaming around in the house). After a domestic violence incident in Nashville many years ago, police always respond and can force entry to a 911 hang-up, but their procedures will vary according to the suspected nature of the call.

 

[firefighter31]

my depts. policy is to let the sheriff force entry if we cannot see caller..

 

[delcofirecop]

as fd we force the door stand back and let pd clear it before we enter.

 

[Mike L.]

PD makes forced entry. There is no reason for us to be forcing entry. Even when a "patient" tells us to force entry. The shooting of the firefighters in December and the hostage taking of the 4 Atlanta FF's changed our whole attitude towards EMS safety. Any call that we think we need PD, we get PD. Last year a nursing home resident shot the director. We don't let our guard down even at SNF's.