2011 Dodge Charger Brake Light Cut-Out

[EMS_Installer]

Okay, so there has to be an easier way to do this than I am doing it. Can I get some input from installers on how you are setting up the brake light black-out (cut-out) feature? Are you doing it at the switch, inline, or what? Currently I am doing it inline at the passenger door loom. It involves three wires, one for each brake light, and I am using three relays. There has to be a better way.


Input is appreciated! Thanks!


[Broken External Image]:http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa362/Extreme_Rescue/BLCO-1.png

 

[skleppy]

What kind of controller are you using? I've done it before where I use a double throw switch, wired inline from the brake swtich. One side with the control switch off and the brake lights are on. Turn the controller switch "on" and the brake lights are off. All it is really is an open switch so it doesn't complete the cct.

 

[EMS_Installer]

What kind of controller are you using? I've done it before where I use a double throw switch, wired inline from the brake swtich. One side with the control switch off and the brake lights are on. Turn the controller switch "on" and the brake lights are off. All it is really is an open switch so it doesn't complete the cct.

You've done that on a 2011 Charger? I've done set-ups like that in the past as well, but Dodge reinvented the wheel in so many ways with the new Charger. I'm wiring it up to a CenCom. It's not that it's a hard way to do it now that I know the color of the brake light wires (white, white/green, and green/yellow... FYI, in the passenger rocker wire loom) and where they are. It just seems like a bit much compare to past installs. Now that I've done a couple of them it only takes a few minutes to do. I was just wondering what other installers were doing.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Why are you blacking out the brake lights?

 

[cory y]

Why are you blacking out the brake lights?

why are you commenting in big blue letters?


hes blacking them out because the customer requests it.


who are you to question it?

 

[CHIEFOPS]

1. the font color and size are easier on the eyes, no?


2. again, what's the purpose of blacking out the brake lights, what am i missing, is it a surveilance-stealth issue or some other reason?


3. I'll ask any damn question I want, who are you to say otherwise?

 

[cory y]

Depts cut their brake lights for stealth


everytime somebody brings up the brake-kill question theres always somebody who decides their string was pulled and they MUST comment on how "thats not legal" or "they shouldnt do that" or some other issue


its not up to the Installer to determine WHY a DEPT wants something, or if it is legal or not. its an installers JOB to give the DEPT what they want... to make it happen

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Where in my post did I question the legality or criticize the mod?


I simply asked the purpose for it.





I asked because the 2011 Charger Pursuit has factory 'stealth mode capability' as a standard feature. I'm guessing then that doesn't include a brake light cut-out, just blacks out the instrument/dash lights?

 

[NPS Ranger]

1. the font color and size are easier on the eyes, no?

No.

 

[EMS_Installer]

Why are you blacking out the brake lights?

ChiefOps,


Often police patrol vehicles have a black-out switch to turn off the brake lights. The purpose of this feature is covert approach. This way the officer can approach a scene without alerting a suspect in the dark with the vehicle's brake lights as the officer stops the vehicle. Much the same reason most patrol cars don't light up the "courtesy lights" (dome light, etc) when the doors are opened.


As for the big blue font... you'll find most people here just like to keep it clean and simple, like out installs.

 

[EMS_Installer]

3. I'll ask any damn question I want, who are you to say otherwise?

Not the best attitude to have... bad attitudes get a bad rap fast. Especially as a newbie. Just say'n.

 

[EMS_Installer]

I asked because the 2011 Charger Pursuit has factory 'stealth mode capability' as a standard feature. I'm guessing then that doesn't include a brake light cut-out, just blacks out the instrument/dash lights?

I just tried the 'stealth mode' on the car... it only kills the cab lights (all of them). It does not effect the brake lights.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Often police patrol vehicles have a black-out switch to turn off the brake lights. The purpose of this feature is covert approach. This way the officer and approach a scene without alerting a suspect in the dark with the vehicle's brake lights as the officer stops the vehicle. Much the same reason most patrol cars don't light up the "courtesy lights" (dome light, etc) when the doors are opened.


My post 1 hour earlier didn't remotely suggest I knew that?

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Not the best attitude to have... bad attitudes get a bad rap fast. Especially as a newbie. Just say'n.

Tell it to cory y, I simply asked a question, he had the attitude.

 

[EMS_Installer]

Often police patrol vehicles have a black-out switch to turn off the brake lights. The purpose of this feature is covert approach. This way the officer and approach a scene without alerting a suspect in the dark with the vehicle's brake lights as the officer stops the vehicle. Much the same reason most patrol cars don't light up the "courtesy lights" (dome light, etc) when the doors are opened.

My post 1 hour earlier didn't remotely suggest I knew that?

If that is sarcasm and you "remotely knew that," I then don't understand your question. If you didn't know that and now you do I am glad to help inform you. I am not sure if you are meaning to, but you are coming across with a serious chip on your shoulder.

 

[SPMRC]

I just tried the 'stealth mode' on the car... it only kills the cab lights (all of them). It does not effect the brake lights.

I don't think that a manufacture build this in there car.


Someone would abuse it and sue for 100.000.000 because someone hit him from behind.

 

[EMS_Installer]

I don't think that a manufacture build this in there car.

Someone would abuse it and sue for 100.000.000 because someone hit him from behind.

Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking... but after he mentioned it, I thought I would give it a shot.

 

[EMS_Installer]

Tell it to cory y, I simply asked a question, he had the attitude.

If we can get back on track with the purpose of my post, that would be awesome!

 

[djmcfall]

Why are you blacking out the brake lights?

34 years in the bussiness we have been using brake/back-up cut out switches. As others have said, one reason is covert operations such as responding to a domestic call, alarm, break in, or simular calls. The reason is the officer does not want to take a chance of tipping off the bad guy as he "sneaks up" to the scene. This is an OFFICER SAFETY issue, which trumps the risk invoved of a possible collision. Any seasoned officer will make sure and watch to the rear as well when operating in "black-out mode". I would use a non glaring pilot light which would light when ever the brakes were applied, in black-out mode, to prevent inavertant operation. Now here is another benefit, I would use all the time while working traffic or "turning" on a suspected DUI. Kill your brake/back-up lights after the speeder or suspected DUI passes, in hopes they are not aware you are turning around. The reason is SOME, not all drivers, will "rabbit" as soon as they see your brake lights come on from the patrol car. The bad guy may not run when you are right behind them, at the time you turn your overheads on to make the stop. If this does not make sense to you, just talked to any seasoned police officer, they can explaine in detail what I have tried to do here. Long story short, it is a tool to help the law enforcement officer do their job in a more productive manner.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

If that is sarcasm and you "remotely knew that," I then don't understand your question. If you didn't know that and now you do I am glad to help inform you. I am not sure if you are meaning to, but you are coming across with a serious chip on your shoulder.

What didn't you understand- all I did was ask why are you blacking out the brake lamps? cory y assumes I'm going to lecture or criticize, and after clarifying I was asking whether it was to satisfy a stealth requirement or learn of some other reason such as an interface issue, you proceed to educate me on the neccessity of police cars having a stealth capability.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

34 years in the bussiness we have been using brake/back-up cut out switches. As others have said, one reason is covert operations such as responding to a domestic call, alarm, break in, or simular calls. The reason is the officer does not want to take a chance of tipping off the bad guy as he "sneaks up" to the scene. This is an OFFICER SAFETY issue, which trumps the risk invoved of a possible collision. Any seasoned officer will make sure and watch to the rear as well when operating in "black-out mode". I would use a non glaring pilot light which would light when ever the brakes were applied, in black-out mode, to prevent inavertant operation. Now here is another benefit, I would use all the time while working traffic or "turning" on a suspected DUI. Kill your brake/back-up lights after the speeder or suspected DUI passes, in hopes they are not aware you are turning around. The reason is SOME, not all drivers, will "rabbit" as soon as they see your brake lights come on from the patrol car. The bad guy may not run when you are right behind them, at the time you turn your overheads on to make the stop. If this does not make sense to you, just talked to any seasoned police officer, they can explaine in detail what I have tried to do here. Long story short, it is a tool to help the law enforcement officer do their job in a more productive manner.

Another lecture I don't need. Here's a hint- check my profile.

 

[EMS_Installer]

What didn't you understand- all I did was ask why are you blacking out the brake lamps? cory y assumes I'm going to lecture or criticize, and after clarifying I was asking whether it was to satisfy a stealth requirement or learn of some other reason such as an interface issue, you proceed to educate me on the neccessity of police cars having a stealth capability.

If we can get back on track with the purpose of my post, that would be awesome!

Thanks, you've made your point.

 

[HILO]

I think brake light cut off is pointless. If a bad guy is looking for the Police, he will see the car way before he see's the brake lights. If one is observant enough to notice a red glow, one is equally observant to see either the glint of chrome or metal off a light bar (most obvious), some one's porch light hitting the reflective decals, or the car it's self. The only advantage is in the rual area's where there is no ambiant light to back shadow the vehicle, like boarder patrol. But again, most bad guys are busy commiting their crimes to be standing around waiting for the police. If they do have a spotter, you better belive he will see your blacked out shadow of a car creeping, or even hear it coming long before you see him.


I havent seen brake light cut off's in many years. I didnt know people still tried that! It's not effective, but cheap enough to try. Who cares if it's legal? LEO's do what they need to do, and if their agency allows it, go for it!


Oh, and who really cares about newbie vs old head on a message board? If your post count is what get's you erect, shoot yourself in the dick!

 

[EMS_Installer]

Oh, and who really cares about newbie vs old head on a message board? If your post count is what get's you erect, shoot yourself in the dick!

That is not what I meant in the slightest. I was suggesting someone get started on the right foot.

 

[ryan]

Can't we all just eat a bowl of gravy and biscuits and get along? If the new guy want to use big blue font he is allowed, he is not allowed to use caps. thats the only rule, second he asked a valid question, Cory you need to lay off the energy drinks and stop giving this board a bad name by jumping down peoples throats when they ask a newbie type question. Not everyone has the same level of experience as yourself.


We in Ohio are advised not to do this but it doesnt mean I cant do it per request of chiefs only for his dept. I still mount a red led that blinks on the dash to alert the officer his brake lights are cut off.

 

[SPMRC]

Can't we all just eat a bowl of gravy and biscuits and get along? If the new guy want to use big blue font he is allowed, he is not allowed to use caps. thats the only rule, second he asked a valid question, Cory you need to lay off the energy drinks and stop giving this board a bad name by jumping down peoples throats when they ask a newbie type question. Not everyone has the same level of experience as yourself.

We in Ohio are advised not to do this but it doesnt mean I cant do it per request of chiefs only for his dept. I still mount a red led that blinks on the dash to alert the officer his brake lights are cut off.

Is the ice cream out today?

 

[HILO]

Can't we all just eat a bowl of gravy and biscuits and get along?

Not sure what ya'll do in Ohio, but us normal folk call 'em biscuits and gravy. Your way is backwards! I bet you drink pop instead of soda!


Seriously, the best wayto wire in brake light cut outs is on a momentary switch. never a on off. You shold be going in low and slow, and radio silent so your hand is free to hold a switch.

 

[EMS_Installer]

Seriously, the best wayto wire in brake light cut outs is on a momentary switch. never a on off. You shold be going in low and slow, and radio silent so your hand is free to hold a switch.

I agree with this. It's too easy to over-look leaving the blackout switch thrown. Just like I see officers all the time driving around with takedowns or an arrowstick on.


I just had biscuits and gravy for breakfast. I am down for some ice cream though!

 

[SPMRC]

I agree with this. It's too easy to over-look leaving the blackout switch thrown. Just like I see officers all the time driving around with takedowns or an arrowstick on.

I just had biscuits and gravy for breakfast. I am down for some ice cream though!

It is biscuit and gravy, but I only have this when I miss chapel and it's before 10 in the morning.


So kids get some ice cream and play in the park.

 

[cmstone2001]

Dang it!!! All this talk about Biscuits and Gravy....Ice Cream.....now I'm hungry!

 

[ryan]

I really dig the momentary switch idea, I have never thought of this. The blinking led light was my idea as to not leave the circuit broken.


Biscuits and gravy, gravy and biscuits potatoe tamatoe I was so angry at the audacity of a veteran board member jumping down a newbies throat that I wrote it backwards (odd for me since i love b&g) I do love ice cream as well.


and yes hilo, you come to ohio and get pop if you ask for soda, you get shitty flavored fizzy water.

 

[NPS Ranger]

you come to ohio and get pop if you ask for soda, you get shitty flavored fizzy water.

Wow must be an Ohio thing, do you get many takers?

 

[John Hearne]

My solution to the "is it on" issue with brake light kills was to put it on a Cencom and make sure the "beep" is enabled. We're also going to feed the power wire signal into the "reverse" circuit of the in-car camera so it can easily be established whether the kill was on or not. We're using Crown Vics and the D&R traffic backer that has the function built-in.

 

[Kent@MoveOverOutfitters]

Have you tried the input wire at the bcm? It would be dark green/white.

 

[FireEMSPolice]

I wish all police vehicles had some sort of tail light kill. I know the 00-05 Impalas had a button that said "SURV MODE." Wish the CVPI had this.

 

[cory y]

I wish all police vehicles had some sort of tail light kill. I know the 00-05 Impalas had a button that said "SURV MODE." Wish the CVPI had this.

the surv mode button didnt do anything but disable the autoheadlights and dashlights.. the brakes were still enabled

 

[SafetyLighting]

Depts cut their brake lights for stealth




everytime somebody brings up the brake-kill question theres always somebody who decides their string was pulled and they MUST comment on how "thats not legal" or "they shouldnt do that" or some other issue


its not up to the Installer to determine WHY a DEPT wants something, or if it is legal or not. its an installers JOB to give the DEPT what they want... to make it happen

I'm surprised to see your answer on this Cory. Doing something that a department wants is fine, but when said item violates federal law and puts your business, etc. at risk, tell them to have their mechanic figure it out or have them sign a legal document releasing you from all liability, which is what I do.

 

[EVModules]

Here's my take after years in the business, pre & post Brake & Back-up light kill option,


A mfg was sued regarding this feature that was available at the time. Since then, they have discontinued offering this feature and will physically disable this on any older units that comes across their hands.


Now days, a smart installation shop won't approach this with a 5 foot stick. I'm always versed in vehicle codes and have often advised customers when there is a conflict and remind them that we won't knowingly install or modify equipment that do not meet codes. For the most part, the warning is heeded and their personnel in "risk management" are appreciative. Such conflicts also includes too many flashing white lights, flash patterns, rear back-up lights, siren tones, and air-bag deactivation. I've been asked a few times to make this option available with our modules and it's always a polite no regardless of offers to sign waivers, etc.


It's a matter of departments doing this black out feature themselves and typically, they are advised by the state's highway patrol (or equivalent) to adopting a "risk management" approach on whether it's worth crossing the line. Generally, they've been advised (or should be already) to accept the consequences of altering federal & state standards.

 

[FireEMSPolice]

the surv mode button didnt do anything but disable the autoheadlights and dashlights.. the brakes were still enabled

Ohh. Thanks for the correction. Then its useless IMO. Just turn off the headlight switch.

 

[EVModules]

Ohh. Thanks for the correction. Then its useless IMO. Just turn off the headlight switch.

It isn't the same thing. The headlight switch doesn't disable the daytime running lights, turns off non mandated instrument lighting, or disable the dome light.