Ever Seen a Lime Green Ambulance?
- Thread starter firedude
- Start date
I have to agree with both Bigassfireman and FireEMSPolice on this Lime Green thing... While the originator of this thread, firedude, and also Paramedic do get my vote for the "Limest of Green" machines here (if "limest" is even a word), most in central Ohio still refer to this mix of yellowish / green paint on any emergency vehicle as Lime Green.
In Delaware County, Ohio, BST&G Fire Department is still all-lime-green as far as I know while Delaware County EMS is transitioning their yellow / lime green Medics as cited by FireEMSPolice's pictures here - Nice photos! Of course, I'm still wondering if DFD has retired non-red engines 7 or 8? Apparently, Tri-Twp FD used one of them for a while. Any info on these? I also have to mention Norwich TWP FD (Franklin County, OH) and their yellow-ish lime green vehicles too. They're very impressive, and the fact that they have Sutphen stamp on 'em is a plus in my book - Just a "central Ohio thing" like our Ohio State Buckeyes!
In Delaware County, Ohio, BST&G Fire Department is still all-lime-green as far as I know while Delaware County EMS is transitioning their yellow / lime green Medics as cited by FireEMSPolice's pictures here - Nice photos! Of course, I'm still wondering if DFD has retired non-red engines 7 or 8? Apparently, Tri-Twp FD used one of them for a while. Any info on these? I also have to mention Norwich TWP FD (Franklin County, OH) and their yellow-ish lime green vehicles too. They're very impressive, and the fact that they have Sutphen stamp on 'em is a plus in my book - Just a "central Ohio thing" like our Ohio State Buckeyes!
FireEMSPolice
Member
That Delaware County EMA vehicle is a HazMat response vehicle. Its kept in a parking lot next to the Hayes building on Sandusky St
1995 Ford F250/Horton (former Delaware County EMS)
Ford F250/Horton
Delaware County EMS Maintenance (The maintenance employee that drives this does maintenance at all 10 EMS stations)
2003 F450/Horton
Delaware County EMS
Delaware Area Career Center Fire. The trucks are used by the schools fire training program but can be called up by the county in the event of an emergency where more apparatus is needed.
The engine below came from Radnor Twp FD in Delaware County
There engines came from the City of Delaware FD
1995 Ford F250/Horton (former Delaware County EMS)
Ford F250/Horton
Delaware County EMS Maintenance (The maintenance employee that drives this does maintenance at all 10 EMS stations)
2003 F450/Horton
Delaware County EMS
Delaware Area Career Center Fire. The trucks are used by the schools fire training program but can be called up by the county in the event of an emergency where more apparatus is needed.
The engine below came from Radnor Twp FD in Delaware County
There engines came from the City of Delaware FD
Last edited by a moderator:
FireEMSPolice said:
Are these DACC engines the ones I used to see as a kid back in the late 70's / early 80's? Wow! Seems to me that somebody around here also used white paint at the time.
FireEMSPolice
Member
exphillycop
Member
Ever seen a lime green ambulance with a roto ray and a federal Q? 
Was a nice time back then, really good memories. :hearts:
Was a nice time back then, really good memories. :hearts:
From a terminology standpoint, jph2's post shows a color closest to lime - as found in the fruit section at the grocery store, or growing from a lime tree - rather dark green with little, if any, yellow appearance. If you want a "yellow lime", then you buy what's known as a "lemon." Yes, I know they have different tastes. And that's what's going on here - different tastes. I'm not trying to be a wise-guy (remember, there's a difference between a wise man & a wise guy). I'm trying to point out that "lime-green" and "lime-yellow" seem to be considered the same color as regards paint.
The lime-yellow discussion started in the '70's through a study published by an eye doctor - see the article below (and the link afterwards for more information). Yes, it's old information, and some of it has been, and continues to be, disputed. But the study referenced lime-yellow - nothing was said about lime-green. The term may have begun when folks who didn't like lime-yellow called it "slime green" - I don't know how the reference changed from lime-yellow to lime-green. Heck, as you can see in the link below, a 1959 study concluded "Golden yellow . . . [is] the most easily visible color for both normal and color deficient groups under all testing conditions." Maybe combining yellow and green paint in such proportions at that time was considered a criminal infringement on the already-existing chartreuse. I don't know what "golden yellow" is supposed to look like. I remember a similar discussion about "chrome yellow."
Some photographs don't accurately portray lime-yellow. I'm not saying the photographer doesn't know how to take a picture. I'm just saying that the surrounding light when the picture was taken, or whether a flash was used - or for reasons about which I'm clueless - sometimes lime-yellow in a photo just isn't an accurate portrayal of its actual appearance - sort of like Drew Carey as Hamlet.
Yes, I know there are those who just don't like it - simply don't like it - want nothing to do with it - believe an emergency services vehicle, particularly a fire truck, should be red (or whatever color they prefer). But if - IF - an injury is prevented, or a life saved, because somebody saw, and avoided a collision with, an emergency services vehicle because it's lime-yellow, I find it difficult to say "never" to such a color, or "always" to another darker color just because "that's the way it's always been." Remember, lots of wasted effort was put into hand-operated pumpers challenging the new technology of steam, and lots of folks wanted to continue to feed horses rather than use a vehicle powered by explosive gasoline. Yes, those issues were easily quantified - steam was readily seen as having more power than a bunch of men frantically raising and lowering handles, and when the four legs of a horse, even when used in multiples of four, were outrun by a vehicle with four wheels, the evidence was visible. And that's what the lime-yellow study was all about - visibility. But some still don't agree. Some because of "tradition." Others because they just don't like the color. Still others don't believe the conclusions of the study. And some rely on the tongue-in-cheek statement that a "green" fire truck just isn't "ripe." That said, airport firefighting apparatus is lime-yellow, as specified by the Federal Aviation Administration. And that may just be another proof for some that, just because the "government" says so, that "don't make it so." (Some also see it as a way of ensuring that airport firefighters don't mistake a fire truck, painted lime-yellow, for a 767, painted, well, mostly, not lime-yellow.)
I've included a faded example of green - lime or otherwise - I don't know what American LaFrance called it. Maybe it was "emerald", to coincide with the name of, apparently, the original buyer. I took the picture with my handy-dandy Canon digital on a very sunny July day. Yes, I see what appears to be a blue tinge on the panel. And yes, it appears the rig was once red. But just as the green paint on this truck can't be accurately called "lime-yellow", neither can it be accurately called "lemon-green" because, well, it isn't. Notice I didn't say "lime-green." Doing so is like saying "tooth dentist" - there is no other type of dentist. So it is with limes. They're, well, green. Granted, varying shades depending upon their current development, but limes are green and lemons are yellow. When those colors are combined in proportions related to the study, they're historically called . . . wait for it . . . "lime-yellow."
I'm retreating now, into my dungeon, to experiment with the visual possibilities of combining avocado (peeled & whole) with banana peels. I'm unaware of any prohibitions of this sort by the Federal Aviation Administration. If you see my picture on the wall of post offices, please tell them I meant well and that my only hope was to be able to register for Medicare next year.
Why Lime-Yellow Fire Trucks Are Safer Than Red
Red may be the traditional color of fire engines, but human factors and ergonomics research finds that lime-yellow fire vehicles are less likely to be involved in accidents.
Picture a fire truck and you are likely to see red - fire engine red. But when it comes to safety, human factors and ergonomics research paints a different picture. Much of human factors and ergonomics research relies upon psychological research done on human visual and auditory perception. This research shows that because the color-transmitting cones in our eyes don't work well in the dark, some colors are easier for us to see at night. We are most sensitive to greenish-yellow colors under dim conditions, making lime shades easiest to see in dim lighting.
Researchers Stephen S. Solomon and James G. King (volunteer firefighters themselves) were aware of these perceptual differences when they analyzed accident data from the Dallas Fire Department. In the 1970's and early 1980's, the City of Dallas started replacing its all-red fire vehicles with lime-yellow fire vehicles with white upper cabs. After the early 1980's, the fire department bought red vehicles with white cabs. During their four year study published in 1995, Solomon and King found that the risk of a visibility-related, multiple-vehicle accident may be as much as three times greater for red or red/white fire pumpers compared to lime-yellow/white pumpers. The results also show that when lime-yellow/white fire emergency vehicles are involved in an accident, the likelihood of injury or towaway damage is less than for red or red/white vehicles involved in an accident. An earlier study by Solomon involving nine cities and 750,000 fire-vehicle trips found that lime-yellow fire pumpers were half as likely as red fire pumpers to be involved in intersection accidents.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) estimates that in 2001 there were 14,900 motor vehicle accidents involving fire department vehicles that were responding to or returning from incidents. These accidents - which included vision-related accidents involving red fire vehicles - often resulted in serious injuries to firefighters and other motorists.
Applying the findings of human factors and ergonomic research, the Federal Aviation Administration has converted their aircraft rescue and fire-fighting fleets to lime-yellow. Many communities are also switching to lime-yellow fire vehicles, resulting in fewer accidents and lives saved.
Solomon, S. S., & King, J. G. (1995). Influence of color on fire vehicle accidents. Journal of Safety Research, Vol. 26, pp. 41-48.
Solomon, S. S. (1990). Lime-yellow color as related to reduction of serious fire apparatus accidents: The case for visibility in emergency vehicle accident avoidance. Journal of the American Optometric Association, Vol. 61, pp. 827-831.
American Psychological Association, October 23, 2003
Same song, different verse: Auto and Road User Journal
The lime-yellow discussion started in the '70's through a study published by an eye doctor - see the article below (and the link afterwards for more information). Yes, it's old information, and some of it has been, and continues to be, disputed. But the study referenced lime-yellow - nothing was said about lime-green. The term may have begun when folks who didn't like lime-yellow called it "slime green" - I don't know how the reference changed from lime-yellow to lime-green. Heck, as you can see in the link below, a 1959 study concluded "Golden yellow . . . [is] the most easily visible color for both normal and color deficient groups under all testing conditions." Maybe combining yellow and green paint in such proportions at that time was considered a criminal infringement on the already-existing chartreuse. I don't know what "golden yellow" is supposed to look like. I remember a similar discussion about "chrome yellow."
Some photographs don't accurately portray lime-yellow. I'm not saying the photographer doesn't know how to take a picture. I'm just saying that the surrounding light when the picture was taken, or whether a flash was used - or for reasons about which I'm clueless - sometimes lime-yellow in a photo just isn't an accurate portrayal of its actual appearance - sort of like Drew Carey as Hamlet.
Yes, I know there are those who just don't like it - simply don't like it - want nothing to do with it - believe an emergency services vehicle, particularly a fire truck, should be red (or whatever color they prefer). But if - IF - an injury is prevented, or a life saved, because somebody saw, and avoided a collision with, an emergency services vehicle because it's lime-yellow, I find it difficult to say "never" to such a color, or "always" to another darker color just because "that's the way it's always been." Remember, lots of wasted effort was put into hand-operated pumpers challenging the new technology of steam, and lots of folks wanted to continue to feed horses rather than use a vehicle powered by explosive gasoline. Yes, those issues were easily quantified - steam was readily seen as having more power than a bunch of men frantically raising and lowering handles, and when the four legs of a horse, even when used in multiples of four, were outrun by a vehicle with four wheels, the evidence was visible. And that's what the lime-yellow study was all about - visibility. But some still don't agree. Some because of "tradition." Others because they just don't like the color. Still others don't believe the conclusions of the study. And some rely on the tongue-in-cheek statement that a "green" fire truck just isn't "ripe." That said, airport firefighting apparatus is lime-yellow, as specified by the Federal Aviation Administration. And that may just be another proof for some that, just because the "government" says so, that "don't make it so." (Some also see it as a way of ensuring that airport firefighters don't mistake a fire truck, painted lime-yellow, for a 767, painted, well, mostly, not lime-yellow.)
I've included a faded example of green - lime or otherwise - I don't know what American LaFrance called it. Maybe it was "emerald", to coincide with the name of, apparently, the original buyer. I took the picture with my handy-dandy Canon digital on a very sunny July day. Yes, I see what appears to be a blue tinge on the panel. And yes, it appears the rig was once red. But just as the green paint on this truck can't be accurately called "lime-yellow", neither can it be accurately called "lemon-green" because, well, it isn't. Notice I didn't say "lime-green." Doing so is like saying "tooth dentist" - there is no other type of dentist. So it is with limes. They're, well, green. Granted, varying shades depending upon their current development, but limes are green and lemons are yellow. When those colors are combined in proportions related to the study, they're historically called . . . wait for it . . . "lime-yellow."
I'm retreating now, into my dungeon, to experiment with the visual possibilities of combining avocado (peeled & whole) with banana peels. I'm unaware of any prohibitions of this sort by the Federal Aviation Administration. If you see my picture on the wall of post offices, please tell them I meant well and that my only hope was to be able to register for Medicare next year.
Why Lime-Yellow Fire Trucks Are Safer Than Red
Red may be the traditional color of fire engines, but human factors and ergonomics research finds that lime-yellow fire vehicles are less likely to be involved in accidents.
Picture a fire truck and you are likely to see red - fire engine red. But when it comes to safety, human factors and ergonomics research paints a different picture. Much of human factors and ergonomics research relies upon psychological research done on human visual and auditory perception. This research shows that because the color-transmitting cones in our eyes don't work well in the dark, some colors are easier for us to see at night. We are most sensitive to greenish-yellow colors under dim conditions, making lime shades easiest to see in dim lighting.
Researchers Stephen S. Solomon and James G. King (volunteer firefighters themselves) were aware of these perceptual differences when they analyzed accident data from the Dallas Fire Department. In the 1970's and early 1980's, the City of Dallas started replacing its all-red fire vehicles with lime-yellow fire vehicles with white upper cabs. After the early 1980's, the fire department bought red vehicles with white cabs. During their four year study published in 1995, Solomon and King found that the risk of a visibility-related, multiple-vehicle accident may be as much as three times greater for red or red/white fire pumpers compared to lime-yellow/white pumpers. The results also show that when lime-yellow/white fire emergency vehicles are involved in an accident, the likelihood of injury or towaway damage is less than for red or red/white vehicles involved in an accident. An earlier study by Solomon involving nine cities and 750,000 fire-vehicle trips found that lime-yellow fire pumpers were half as likely as red fire pumpers to be involved in intersection accidents.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) estimates that in 2001 there were 14,900 motor vehicle accidents involving fire department vehicles that were responding to or returning from incidents. These accidents - which included vision-related accidents involving red fire vehicles - often resulted in serious injuries to firefighters and other motorists.
Applying the findings of human factors and ergonomic research, the Federal Aviation Administration has converted their aircraft rescue and fire-fighting fleets to lime-yellow. Many communities are also switching to lime-yellow fire vehicles, resulting in fewer accidents and lives saved.
Solomon, S. S., & King, J. G. (1995). Influence of color on fire vehicle accidents. Journal of Safety Research, Vol. 26, pp. 41-48.
Solomon, S. S. (1990). Lime-yellow color as related to reduction of serious fire apparatus accidents: The case for visibility in emergency vehicle accident avoidance. Journal of the American Optometric Association, Vol. 61, pp. 827-831.
American Psychological Association, October 23, 2003
Same song, different verse: Auto and Road User Journal
Phillyrube
Member
fyrboy said:
I know it's called 'lime yellow' but it looks more green to me. I just call it 'fire engine lime green'.
Where I live, the only ambos I remember seeing in that colour were a 1975 Dodge van and a 1972 Superior/Pontiac 54" ambo. Both were entirely fire engine lime green. That was back in 1978-1979. At one point the Superior ran dual sirens - a late 1960s Federal electronic (low-pitched) set to 'wail' and a 1970s Federal electronic (high-pitched) set to 'yelp'. The low-pitched wail and high-pitched yelp were an interesting combination.
At about the same time the fire department got its first two trucks in lime green. It took about twenty years to make the switch from red to lime green, and not too long after that the department switched to red and white. I think there are only about a half dozen lime green trucks left in the fleet.
lafd55
Member
Phillyrube said:
Two things: It was either purchased with Homeland Security money, therefore it needs to have a Homeland Security logo on it; or the logo is really Delaware County but looks similar to Homeland Security Seal.
Steve0625
Member
lafd55 said:
Is that a fed requirement? We have several pieces purchased with DHS funds and don't have the DHS seal (but do say that they were purchased with DHS funds.)
pdk9
Member
Palm beach gardens fire rescue and Miami dade fire rescue use full lime green rescues (ambulances/buses). All engines/aerials in PBG have roto-rays & Q2B/PA300s and all rescues have roto-rays with either mechanical super chief/PA300 or Q2B/PA300 (they tried super chiefs on 2 rescues but then went back to only using FedSig mechanicals). For Dade, their newer rescues on the Spartan Furion chassis have super chiefs, while their engines/aerials have Q2Bs. In palm beach county, it's called "gardens green."
Steve0625 said:
I would say it's the former, as well...If you look at the white horizontal stripe on the box, it says "Office of Homeland Security".
Marty1 said:
When you say that "all ambulances should be van based", do you mean they must be type 2, or can they be type 2 or 3? Why would the government outlaw type 1?
chief1562
Member
This bus belongs to Wilton EMS in Wilton, NY. Saw it on a scene of a MVA in Greenfield. To see more videos from the scene, check out my youtube channel. FYI, it's a hypothetical question. :bonk:
rettoded
Member
I forgot about this thread! Some pics to add:
Mulhenburg Ambulance, Berks County,PA Medic 560-4 courtesy of Goodwill Fire Company of Hyde Park
It's twin sister Western Berks EMS Medic 650-9, Berks County,PA and some other ambulances courtesy of Western Berks EMS
A better front shot of 650-9 and I believe Myerstown First Aid Unit, Lebanon County, PA Ambulance 142 courtesy of Myerstown First Aid Unit
Continuing with Myerstown First Aid Unit Ambulances, courtesy ofMyerstown First Aid Unit.
Ambulance 140
[Broken External Image]:http://www.mfau.net/content/Ambulances/image/DSC_0047(1).JPG
Ambulance 141
[Broken External Image]:http://www.mfau.net/content/Ambulances/image/01_thumb.jpg
Ambulance 142
[Broken External Image]:http://www.mfau.net/content/Ambulances/image/002_2(1).JPG
Fayetteville Volunteer Fire Department , Franklin County, PA, also has several lime ambulances (pictures courtesy of Fayetteville Volunteer Fire Department
Ambulance 7-7
Ambulance 7-8
Ambulance 7-9
Former Ambulance 7-6
Medic 7
Londonderry Fire Company, Dauphin County, PA former Ambulance 54 was lime (courtesy of Londonderry Fire Company.
Their current Ambulance 54 is more blue than lime:
Mulhenburg Ambulance, Berks County,PA Medic 560-4 courtesy of Goodwill Fire Company of Hyde Park
It's twin sister Western Berks EMS Medic 650-9, Berks County,PA and some other ambulances courtesy of Western Berks EMS
A better front shot of 650-9 and I believe Myerstown First Aid Unit, Lebanon County, PA Ambulance 142 courtesy of Myerstown First Aid Unit
Continuing with Myerstown First Aid Unit Ambulances, courtesy ofMyerstown First Aid Unit.
Ambulance 140
[Broken External Image]:http://www.mfau.net/content/Ambulances/image/DSC_0047(1).JPG
Ambulance 141
[Broken External Image]:http://www.mfau.net/content/Ambulances/image/01_thumb.jpg
Ambulance 142
[Broken External Image]:http://www.mfau.net/content/Ambulances/image/002_2(1).JPG
Fayetteville Volunteer Fire Department , Franklin County, PA, also has several lime ambulances (pictures courtesy of Fayetteville Volunteer Fire Department
Ambulance 7-7
Ambulance 7-8
Ambulance 7-9
Former Ambulance 7-6
Medic 7
Londonderry Fire Company, Dauphin County, PA former Ambulance 54 was lime (courtesy of Londonderry Fire Company.
Their current Ambulance 54 is more blue than lime:
Tri-State PSE
Member
Here's my Departments apparatus:
My Dad was the Chief that originated the "lime green" color a long time ago.
The logic back in the day, was that a fire truck/squad was much easier seen with this color than any other.
This included low lighting situations, fog, rain, Etc.
Needless to say, the color has stuck and is kind of a staple in our area now.
My Dad was the Chief that originated the "lime green" color a long time ago.
The logic back in the day, was that a fire truck/squad was much easier seen with this color than any other.
This included low lighting situations, fog, rain, Etc.
Needless to say, the color has stuck and is kind of a staple in our area now.
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Phillyrube
Member
Fire trucks are supposed to be red.
A fire truck has 6 wheels and 6 men.
6 plus 6 is a foot.
A foot is a ruler.
Queen Elizabeth, a ruler, ruled the seven seas.
Seas have fish and fish have fins.
The Finns fought the Russians.
The Russians are red.
Fire trucks are always rushin',
Therefore, fire trucks are red!!
A fire truck has 6 wheels and 6 men.
6 plus 6 is a foot.
A foot is a ruler.
Queen Elizabeth, a ruler, ruled the seven seas.
Seas have fish and fish have fins.
The Finns fought the Russians.
The Russians are red.
Fire trucks are always rushin',
Therefore, fire trucks are red!!
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rettoded
Member
Phillyrube said:
True but:
Fire trucks are supposed to be yellow:
Fire trucks have hoses.
Hoses move water.
Water is made up of oxygen and hydrogen.
The sun has hydrogen in it.
The sun is yellow and very shiny.
Fire trucks are shiny.
Therefore, Fire trucks are yellow!!!
Phillyrube
Member
rettoded said:True but:
Fire trucks are supposed to be yellow:
Fire trucks have hoses.
Hoses move water.
Water is made up of oxygen and hydrogen.
The sun has hydrogen in it.
The sun is yellow and very shiny.
Fire trucks are shiny.
Therefore, Fire trucks are yellow!!!
Touche'
Liberty703
Member
emergency_ram12
Member
Phillyrube said:
I will tell you that this, in the current capacity, is not an ambulance. It is a Deleware County Department of Homeland Security HAZMAT Support Vehicle. It was at one time a former ambulance converted into a support vehicle with DHS funds.
As far as the Purchased with DHS Funds, to my knowledge it doesnt need to have that on it unless it was purchased using DHS Federal Grant money. DHS purchasing a vehicle and purchasing a vehicle with DHS Federal Grant money is different.
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RES347CUE
Member
firedude said:
The Lovington, NM Fire Dept ran lime-green ambulances for a number of years after they took over the EMS from the Lovington Lions Club. The Lions Club ran a '67 Ford wagon and later a '70 two-tone-green low top Suburban that had come from a funeral home ambulance operation in Lubbock. I haven't seen any of Lovington's units in quite some time, so I don't know what they're running now. Midland FD ran some lime-green engines, but now they're getting back to red.