Fascination with Chinese lights?

[Strobesnmore]

I never picked apart Tom, I said I agreed with him, however I completely disagree with CPS guy. You are correct we do have our own lights manufacturered however our process couldn't be further than the means most of the Chinese lights you see are brought in and sold. Take my comparison to Apple, we do almost all the design, specs, testing, etc. to make sure we have a solid product we are proud to stand behind and I think our prodcuts reflect that. If you read my post on our new minibar we are waiting for rust tests on the metal and UV testing on the dome to come back. I would be surprized if you could fine a dealer of Chinese products that goes to that extent. I also am not trying to compete with the name brand US manufactures which I make very clear. Theres a recent post asking when our full sized lightbar will be out and I make it very clear that their are already great bars at great prices by the name brand guys that I do not feel I could nor do I want to compete with or against.


Let me be clear I never compare my lights to name brand lights as I am not trying to sell them as such. Is my D12 for 109.99 as bright as a Whelen Avenger? absolutely not. Is it as good or better than a light in the same price range? yes it is and in most cases better!


Thanks, Louis

 

[badge22]

I never picked apart Tom, I said I agreed with him, however I completely disagree with CPS guy. You are correct we do have our own lights manufacturered however our process couldn't be further than the means most of the Chinese lights you see are brought in and sold. Take my comparison to Apple, we do almost all the design, specs, testing, etc. to make sure we have a solid product we are proud to stand behind and I think our prodcuts reflect that. If you read my post on our new minibar we are waiting for rust tests on the metal and UV testing on the dome to come back. I would be surprized if you could fine a dealer of Chinese products that goes to that extent. I also am not trying to compete with the name brand US manufactures which I make very clear. Theres a recent post asking when our full sized lightbar will be out and I make it very clear that their are already great bars at great prices by the name brand guys that I do not feel I could nor do I want to compete with or against.

Let me be clear I never compare my lights to name brand lights as I am not trying to sell them as such. Is my D12 for 109.99 as bright as a Whelen Avenger? absolutely not. Is it as good or better than a light in the same price range? yes it is and in most cases better!


Thanks, Louis

:crazy: Is about all I can say. I think I see your point. You just want to be the king of the imports. "Nope, there not as good as the major brands, but better then all the other imports". Is that the idea? Basically this wasn't really a thread about China lights, but a marketing ploy for your own lights.


Whether or not you want to compete with the name brands, you are doing so. Every time a customer purchases one of your imports, you lose a name brand sale. They (products) compete automatically. That's business 101. Every product you carry competes against the others. To be clear, I think you have an excellent reputation and I have heard nothing but positive comments about your company. I would just think (with all due respect) that focusing on that versus attacking other products or vendors is a more wise use of a professional's time.

 

[Strobesnmore]

Badge, I never made this about my lights you did. I also was very clear in the point of the topic which many understood and I even started with positive comments about one company who I did not name who sells all Chinese lights.

 

[jws926]

I buy Chinese light, and I have no problem it, why, because I dont need the lights on a everyday basis, so I cant see spending the money on brand name lights. I understand some of the complaints towards Chinese lights, but as long as the seller stands behind the product's . and there is a warranty , then should it really matter where the hell the lights come from?.


I have bought two sets of LED's lights from China, one was a split deck interior bar, and the other is a LED stick, still waiting on the LED stick, and starting to think its never going to come :sadcry: . I am happy with the split deck bar, I did a review on it, it would be a lot brighter if I did not have the blue tint strip on my windshield.


I buy a lot of my other hobby stuff from Chinese seller's , even with shipping the stuff is cheaper then buying here in the US.

 

[dovy6]

...I understand some of the complaints towards Chinese lights, but as long as the seller stands behind the product's . and there is a warranty , then should it really matter where the hell the lights come from?...

As long as the light is

• As bright as "real" (American) lights
  
• As durable
  
• As good a warranty
  
• Has decent flash patterns
  
• And has correct gauge wiring so I'm not afraid my car will burn down
  

then I dont care where the hell the lights are made

 

[VolEms]

Thank you snm for bringing up this topic. Over the past 2 years I have started my own business where I sell and install emergency equiptment. Most of my customers are volunteers who drive POV's. I refuse to use the China junk for a couple of reasons. When I do an install I am held accountable for all problems. I have seen many problems with the China lights burning out and or becoming very dim after a few months. Yes I have seen issues with the big US companies but they are very few and will stand by their product with the warranty. I try to give fair and honest price that is not so much more then the China Junk. I have a customer who bought a Chinese Dominator for $500. How is that cheap. I cant begin to tell u how many speakers I have swapped out since they blew.


I think the customer ends up spending twice the amount, having to replace the Chinese garbage. I once threw in a pair of china grill lights for a customer only to have one stop working the very next day. Even though I had given the lights for free it was my headache to fix them.


To sum it up I dont think its worth it for a real Emergency Service Provider to use Chinese lights. If your a whacker and want to install lights in your car by all means enjoy them.

 

[runesson]

Just throwing it out there....


American consumers wanted lower prices and american stockholders wanted greater dividends.


Chineese government (communist) saw an opportunity and instituted programs and funding(!) to increase chineese production for export.


American manufacturers started buying parts from china, undermining american industry.


Americans lost jobs, but kept consuming and thus wanted even lower prices.


Chineese companies, backed by government (communist) funding, started producing knockoffs, further undermining american industry.


Write ending................

 

[OSP959(R)]

I'm working on becoming a dealer, so I'm looking at every possible light source. I've contacted companies to get information on becoming a dealer and buying from them. I've been looking at everything from the big name companies, to all the Chinese lights. Researching those Chinese lights brought me to this thread. As I got most of the way through the first page, it left me with this thought (It may not seem like it ties in, but it will)


I realize large companies require a 'buy in' because they don't sell to individual customers, unless maybe they're making a huge order (government contract). But what about smaller companies? Even smaller companies like Strobes N More has a $2,500 'buy in' to be a dealer. Why is that? How is it costing these companies $2,500 to sell to dealers? Those dealers are allowing these smaller companies to buy even more product from the manufacturer, which may in fact allow them a bigger discount from the manufacturer. If you can't afford to 'buy in' to a company offering quality lighting, you're going to start searching for other options. If you're a company stocking quality emergency lighting, and you don't like seeing all the Chinese lights flooding the market, then help enable new dealers to offer brand name lighting. (end of point)


And before anyone defends how it's normal to have to 'buy in' when you become a dealer:


Believe it or not, not all distributors of products require any kind of buy in. I have a small business selling offroad parts because I'm an enthusiast. I have an account a with a variety of distributors. One has warehouses all over the country. None required a buy in, and none have a minimum yearly purchase. They even drop ship for me. I don't stock ANYTHING. And even though I cater to a single less common vehicle, I do well over $80,000 in sales a year.

 

[BigWil]

Strobesnmore, I see where you are coming from, but I don't necessarily agree with you. I would definitely encourage caution when purchasing Chinese emergency lighting, but I won't lump them all into one category. Take your E4 series LED, it retails for $49.99 on your website. If I was outfitting a vehicle, and wanted to install them as grill lights, side window lights, intersection lights on the pushbar, and put a pair on the rear license plate, I'd be looking at 8 lights, or $399.92. Or I could go with CPS Authority for a similar size LED and spend $35 per light, or $280. I could buy an extra light, spending $315, and have a spare lighthead to trade out if one becomes defective. Throw in a 8 head traffic director, and you would charge $269.99 vs CPS Authority charging $120. Obviously you are seeing where I'm going with this.


I would say with the high number of LED lightheads on most vehicles, it won't matter for response purposes if one or two lightheads fail. It may not be aesthetically pleasing, however.


Then there is customer service. I've ordered a couple items from you in the past, and I have no complaints. I have ordered a couple items from CPS Authority, and have no complaints with theirs either. I won't deal with some dealers for Chinese lights, and I won't deal with some dealers for any of the name brand lights either.


I will say this, though. If I was ordering lights for a heavily used emergency vehicle, I would recommend the name brands. They are established companies with good reputations, who will most likely stand behind their products, and most emergency services can afford the extra cost. For volunteer purposes, I'd buy all Chinese lights from a supplier I felt I could trust. It wasn't that long ago that police cars were busting through intersections with no more than a single beacon and a siren, demanding the right of way from heavy cars with poor brakes and worse tires...I'm pretty sure that having one or two lightheads fail on a POV is not going to have disasterous consequences on a response.


You keep going on about the certifications your lights have. I think that it's great you have the certifications, and would recommend all suppliers to get them. However, those certificates don't mean anything when so many people are installing the lights behind tint, tinting the light heads themselves for stealth purposes, or placing them in locations where the light output is partially blocked (behind grills, especially slat grills, in the gap between bumper and tailgate, etc)

 

[Tom]

We have a $1,000 buy-in, which is really to make sure our distributors are serious, and not just trying to get a discount for themselves. Even still, two-thirds of our distributors never place an opening order after signing up and two-thirds of those who place an opening order never place a second order.

If I had a dime for every firefighter that promised me thousands of dollars in sales if only he could have a free demo to show his buddies...

I could not agree with this more. Well put, and right on the money!

 

[OSP959(R)]

Just because you are buying for resale doesn't change my costs. You are asking me to give up a portion of my profit (after spending 10 years building a company) so that you can profit.

So are you saying you don't make a profit when a dealer buys through you? You should profit, and the dealer should profit. If you're not profiting from dealer sales, then why would you sell to dealers?

Another $200 dash light isn't going to earn me "bigger discount" from any of my manufacturers, another $2,500 isn't even going to do that. It may sound harsh, but from a business prospective you need to give me a financial reason why I should give up my profit margin.

But it is true that companies offer various discounts based on how much you purchase. And some require minimum yearly purchases. So if you're a small company and you need to meet a certain level of purchases each year, you start offering dealer accounts. By those dealers purchasing through you (not you specifically Jared), you can meet your yearly minimums. And there are companies that will adjust your discount if you're spending over a certain amount. Not sure about the emergency equipment companies, but it happens in other markets.

We have a $1,000 buy-in, which is really to make sure our distributors are serious, and not just trying to get a discount for themselves.

Just get copies of their business licenses. I doubt few people are going to go through registering a company name with their secretary of state, and get a business/vendors license, just to save a few bucks on that $200 dash light you mentioned. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy in with a company if I really wanted to deal with them, but I don't see the reasoning behind it. I would obviously be less likely if I found a company that didn't require a buy in, or had less requirements on yearly purchases.

Even still, two-thirds of our distributors never place an opening order after signing up and two-thirds of those who place an opening order never place a second order

I don't use the account with one of my part distributors because they don't offer enough discount to be competitive. I use another one to order the same parts. There's always a possibility that the dealer found a cheaper supplier.

 

[Light It Up]

So are you saying you don't make a profit when a dealer buys through you? You should profit, and the dealer should profit. If you're not profiting from dealer sales, then why would you sell to dealers?



But it is true that companies offer various discounts based on how much you purchase. And some require minimum yearly purchases. So if you're a small company and you need to meet a certain level of purchases each year, you start offering dealer accounts. By those dealers purchasing through you (not you specifically Jared), you can meet your yearly minimums. And there are companies that will adjust your discount if you're spending over a certain amount. Not sure about the emergency equipment companies, but it happens in other markets.


Just get copies of their business licenses. I doubt few people are going to go through registering a company name with their secretary of state, and get a business/vendors license, just to save a few bucks on that $200 dash light you mentioned. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy in with a company if I really wanted to deal with them, but I don't see the reasoning behind it. I would obviously be less likely if I found a company that didn't require a buy in, or had less requirements on yearly purchases.


I don't use the account with one of my part distributors because they don't offer enough discount to be competitive. I use another one to order the same parts. There's always a possibility that the dealer found a cheaper supplier.

+1


I agree 110 percent with every thing he has been saying


When I first started out on here, I contacted tons of members to become a dealer, almost all were a know go because of buy ins and that stuff.


But one member said yes, and now that I am filling my business taxes, I saw I spent easy easy 5-6k maybe more that's just starting from the end of aug threw december.


Louis


All I get out of you is buy usa and only usa even are stuff is shit in comparison which I know 110 percent its not and if that's NOT the message your trying to convey then maybe its only buy are chinese lights and know else


Just my thoughts at 5am after 17 hrs of work

 

[Light It Up]

Also Louis


I have bought a few times from you and the service was amazing, but when it was crunch time I was sorely dispointed.


Also I strong agree with alot of the pro chinese lights points


Personally I sell and buy a decent mix of both I have never used any thing but whacker for all my chinese lights needs and have never ever been let down or had a issue 2-3 yrs later


I wish I and all of my customers could afford american made I also wish I had won the mega millions or bought a variety of stocks for pennies but those are all wishes on my list of selling ever customer a full install of all tomar Whelen or SOS


so tell I or my customers can afford it I will sell them the very very best for there budget.


I have done installs with some tomar some whacker and some Whelen sure but those are far and few most ppl want one brand for pretty much every thing not a hole huge mix and they also can't spend 2-5k on a FULL vehicle with installation! So again chinese is the way to go

 

[OSP959(R)]

I don't want this to get to far away from the original topic. I'll basically sum my point in this up by saying if you're a distributor and don't like the increase in Chinese lighting, then make it easier for dealers to sell lighting from American companies. If you complain about people selling Chinese lighting, but don't want to work with them to sell lighting from American companies, then it feels like your only real complaint is that you're not making as much money due to the influx of the Chinese lighting.

 

[911 Outfitters Texas]

The Chinese lights have an appeal because of pricing, the quality of them has vastly improved, they aren't as junky as they used to be a few short years ago.


It's time to face the new world order, most everything we own is made in China or has Chinese components. It's just the way it is these days. No matter how much we beat our drums and yell "buy American" the reality of things is simply a sad fact of our politics and mismanagement (a whole new can of political worms).


We are not the country we used to be, most of the production we had has moved overseas. Made in the USA blinkies and woo woos are expensive, but have much better QC, are reliable and have a long term track record. I stake my safety and life on them on every call I make without a second thought.


Now, on the other hand, would I use Chinese lights on a critical application? Hell no. Are they fine for budget minded vollies or LEOs on construction jobs? Sure they are. I chose not to gamble my life and safety on them though! But that's my personal choice.


Just my lousy two centavos on this subject

 

[acs680]

I think all of you would be surprised at how many parts inside your Whelen, Federal, etc light are in fact Chinese. Just because the company is in the US, and the light is assembled in the US, does not mean that it isnt full of chinese parts. I have looked inside many of our Federal sirens, and lightbars and seen all kinds of "made in China" stickers. Federal even sells lights assembled in China and they are very high quality.


Am I saying that the lights assembled and shipped from China are the same quality, not by a long shot. But are some of them the same, yes...


Louis, where do the parts inside your led lights come from? Where are they assembled? Please don't answer because I do not want this thread to turn in to another 10 pages.


Everyone drop the Chinese/American light discussions and move on... If you want to buy Chinese, go for it, if you want to buy American, more power to you. Just SHUT UP about Chinese vs American lights because we ALL know the difference by now.

 

[proled]

As other people have said, it really all comes down to price.... people think they are saving money buying cheaper... they troll the internet to get the best 'deal' not taking into account the long term issue.... most 'Chinese' sellers here in Europe disappear after a few months of making money, only to leave customers without warranty etc... most of the site give stupid warranties, using 'real' images from big brand companies, fake statements like "gen5 led's' etc


As someone said to me once - "I don't have enough money to buy cheap product" !

 

[EVModules]

Not to twist the subject about the quality of lights... what I've noticed here in these discussions about the costs of several lights to outfit a typical vehicle. In other words, quantity. If the budget is $800 or so, is it so important to try to cover every lighting wish list when a good quality (some read American) lightbar would fit the bill sufficiently? Even some mini's are stellar in performance. I cringe when those who gripe about how vollies are poor yet try to outfit their vehicles almost always excessively beyond what the law/code requires.


You can only stretch the pizza so much with the amount of "dough" you have. New quote: You can't have an extra large pizza and expect it to hold together for the price of a small.

 

[dovy6]

What a dumb post!

I think all of you would be surprised at how many parts inside your Whelen, Federal, etc light are in fact Chinese. Just because the company is in the US, and the light is assembled in the US, does not mean that it isnt full of chinese parts. I have looked inside many of our Federal sirens, and lightbars and seen all kinds of "made in China" stickers. Federal even sells lights assembled in China and they are very high quality.

When I say "chinese lights" I dont mean "lights that happened to be made in china". I mean "lights made by chinese companies with little to no warranty and little to no accountability."

Everyone drop the Chinese/American light discussions and move on... If you want to buy Chinese, go for it, if you want to buy American, more power to you. Just SHUT UP about Chinese vs American lights because we ALL know the difference by now.

This topic is about Chinese / American lights discussion. There are 200 other topics started every day about other things but you chose to reply to this topic, and say that no one else should reply cause YOU are tired of this discussion?!?.


Dovy

 

[OSP959(R)]

I don't like mosquitoes, but that doesn't mean I'm going to exterminate your yard for you.

There are plenty of things that I don't like, but that doesn't mean I'm going to spend my money (of give up my profit margin) to change them.


What the Chinese Manufacturers as well as the American Companies that brand their products (CPS, STL, Lightning X, etc) [as well as Feinex] have done is remove the barrier to entry into the market. Very high barrier to entry usually isn't good for a customer, but neither is a very low barrier to entry. When you can start a lighting business with almost zero overhead (no inventory, etc) there will be a lot of "fly-by-night businesses." Lots of "businesses" will enter the market, there is very little to prevent prices from being driven down to an unsustainable level, and these "businesses" will then leave the market, leaving the customer high-and-dry. When you are selling $10 candles, make-up, or tupperware it probably isn't a problem.


Again, this may sound harsh, but maybe the industry doesn't need a firefighter at every volly station who sells lights on the side.


-Jared

WTF are you talking about? :weird:


You're getting your undies in a knot over Chinese lighting and quoting my posts, but you don't seem to get it. I'm sorry that I'm not more clear in my posts. So let me make one more attempt at this:


My initial comment was directed at Strobes N More. Now, I don't want to offend Louis because I think he offers a quality business and stands behind his in-house SNM brand. I was impressed from the first time I saw him stick one in water why it was turned on. But as I read the thread, I couldn't help but to think that he is in a position that he could help get some of the people selling the Chinese lights in to brand name lights instead of just complaining about it.


And as far as the Chinese lights go, people are getting all worked up over the label 'Chinese' and ranting about how they're in the American branded lights. When I read the thread, my thoughts were more on the cheap ebay lighting. There is a guy by me buying LED lights from J-Gardon (sells a lot on ebay), marking them up $50.00, and selling them locally. They have a 1-year warranty - if you can actually get it covered.


I'm sure Louis is very much aware that there is decent imported LED lights, and crappy LED lights. And by the way, I became a business owner 7-years ago with zero overhead and haven't left my customers high and dry. In fact, I've taken small losses on a few orders from repeat customers because I had to order the part, and the price went up. It was worth it on these few rare occasions to keep the repeat customer. I wasn't wrapped up in worrying about my 'Profit Margin'.

 

[NFD-102]

I'm with strobesnmore on this one, I can easily buy chinese crap and have it only last 2 years and not be as bright or I can spend the extra 50 bucks and get something decent. If I have a 500 dollar budget for all warning equipment and siren, I can make my vehicle look like a xmas tree with chinese lights and have to replace it all in 2-5 years. Or I can buy items from ELB or SNM sometimes used and know that I still have plenty of time left on it. And if there is an issue, I can send it back to whelen or strobesnmore and its under warranty or fixable for a low price. I'd rather spend the money because I've never had the issue with them. ETD, STL, LEDOutfitters I have seen friends buy stuff from them and have problems.


For 500 new I can get:


Whelen Siren


Carson Speaker


SNM D12


SNM TIR3 (2)


SNM HAW's (2)


Or used/new from ELB you can buy a lot more.

 

[bookem699]

OK so I don't want to get involved in this argument about lights, but after reading this thread, i do have a question. Being that I am a little new to all this i was confused about which brands are American brands and which are Chinese brands. I am familiar with Whelen, Federal signal, and Code 3. It it my understanding that they are all American brands. But I was wondering about some of the other brands I see for sale on this site and other sites. Brands such as 911EP, Sound off, Show me, ect. Again, I don't want to start anything, I am just curious about which brands are considered good, quality, customer supported brands and which ones are cheap knock offs that have little to no customer support. This information would really help me when deciding which lights i am going to get for my patrol car. Thanks.

 

[MEVS06]

OK so I don't want to get involved in this argument about lights, but after reading this thread, i do have a question. Being that I am a little new to all this i was confused about which brands are American brands and which are Chinese brands. I am familiar with Whelen, Federal signal, and Code 3. It it my understanding that they are all American brands. But I was wondering about some of the other brands I see for sale on this site and other sites. Brands such as 911EP, Sound off, Show me, ect. Again, I don't want to start anything, I am just curious about which brands are considered good, quality, customer supported brands and which ones are cheap knock offs that have little to no customer support. This information would really help me when deciding which lights i am going to get for my patrol car. Thanks.

All those brands you mentioned are American. Tomar, Star/Signal Vehicle Products, Strobes and More, Microman Industries are also American.

 

[ERM]

I hate to chime in here because this has been beaten to death, but I think the real thing that is overlooked are the specs. You can go to any company in the world and tell them to make something for you. However, if you have a design and a list of materials you want used, then they will build it for you to those specifications. If you choose higher quality parts, and they can build it using those parts for cheaper than what you can get it made here, then what's the difference in the end product? They can build it cheaper. That's a fact. The end user wants to pay the lowest price possible. That is also a fact.


We are all guilty of this. Don't tell me you don't shop around for the best price on something you want to buy because money is no object. We all look for the better deals. Sometimes we'll sacrifice quality for price and buy an RCA instead of a Toshiba, but we all weigh out the options and sacrifice quality for price. I don't like it either, but we all do it. To each their own as they say.


I hate how the market has become flooded with all of these knockoffs, but no one is to blame but us. When LED Outfitters comes on here with his unbelievable deals on a new line of lights, just to move the batch of lights he bought, there are dozens of people jumping all of it. Why? They're doing nothing but promoting the problem. Those dealers are still in business because of people who think the extra money they are saving will yield the quality of a name brand US product.


Those China companies are making their products with low cost parts for maximum profit. That is why you see the failure rate that you do. I've toured the SOS plant and watched them make their lights on their machines. Watched it as it placed each component in its respective spot and then was fed into the oven for the solder to set.


Yes, there are some parts or products that are sent out overseas for production, but it is to their specification. The companies are given a list of part numbers to use and it's built to those specifications. Part cost goes up, so therefore the end product price goes up. There's why our prices are higher.


When a China company copies a US product, they make an exact mold of it. No R&D. No work to design the product from scratch or paying engineers for the days, weeks or months to develop the product. Just simply open up a completed model and copy it. Make it cheaper with cheaper parts and there you have it, a cheaper product sold by the thousands. And all because somebody else did all the work and spent the money.


You've seen the stuff the US puts out and the stuff they put out. Most copies are of the US products. Have you even seen a US company copy a China product? No way. Most of their designs look horrible.


In conclusion, remember this: You are the reason companies do what they do. They are here to serve you. Without you, they are nothing. If nobody buys their product, they go out of business. You demand a certain level of quality, but more importantly, an affordable price. They try to give you what you want.


The market has different levels of quality. There are enough of you in each level of the market to keep each company in business when you buy their level of quality product. The only difference, who is happier in the long run? From what I've seen and experienced, it is the American manufacturer that takes care of their customer better than these resellers selling China products. That is my final fact for today.


Tony

 

[Timoteus]

I have heard this about Chinese R&D: "We can copy everything, except your grandmother."


Don't know if its true.

 

[Keith K.]

A few months ago I removed a push bumper and had to relocate four Code 3 XT3 light heads. Before doing this, I always appreciated the intensity and the way the optics protruded from the bezel mount. Also, the blue heads are much deeper in hue than Whelen LED's. When I removed the heads I found made in "Tiawan" stickers on the back. That got me thinking though; these light heads are beat to hell and can take a high pressure wash like no other.


My point is, there are some products manufactured overseas that are of good quality. Federal Signal and Code 3 carry some products that are manufactured overseas that meet their quality standards. I prefer to bid on American products because I believe in quality however; I'll also consider products that are foreign built if that particular product fits my needs.


With all that said, I still often gravitate towards Whelen and SoundOff for quality, warranty and customer service. Unlike volunteers, I have the benefit of buying my departments equipment on state bid which is often lower than any online price anywhere and is competitive with foreign products.

 

[Billy Goldfeder]

WHELEN. For numerous, numerous validated and time proven reasons. WHELEN.

 

[BigWil]

WHELEN. For numerous, numerous validated and time proven reasons. WHELEN.

Except for the recent water intrusion issues, and the teal "blue" lights. Whelen isn't perfect, as far as I'm concerned, all the companies have issues.