Federal Jr. Beacon Ray

[Captain4164]

IM thinking that I might have a 1019 then. Its a spare one of the 6v bulbs I got for my truck, as turn signals, as those are the only single filament bulbs, the brake/parking bulbs are dual filament. And the single filament Im thinking must be 1019 as they are as bright as the brake lights. So the bulb isn't an issue for me, I'm gonna use the brightest one I have. Its the motor Im wondering about. Forgot to go out last nite, too busy watching the hockey playoffs. Ill do it tonite, after my Rangers beat the pants off the Devils.


But yeah the motor just seems slow in the 6v one, no faster than the 12v one....

 

[dmathieu]

Nick, read my previous post about the bulbs and motors, and resistors. The resistor in the 12Volt might be worth investigating, and the 1019 bulb is HUGE (like 2" in diameter, and is 12 Volt.

 

[Captain4164]

Nick, read my previous post about the bulbs and motors, and resistors. The resistor in the 12Volt might be worth investigating, and the 1019 bulb is HUGE (like 2" in diameter, and is 12 Volt.

Ok then I don't have a 1019, that must been what was in it when my neighbor plugged the wires into an outlet and fried the bulb. Idiot. So lemme find out what I have join on here

 

[Captain4164]

Ok, just spent a little time on the phone with Dan, thanks for talking to me so late back there, Dan.


I took some video of both the lights hooked up at the same time, sitting next to each other, but I can't post the video for some reason.


Anyway, I hooked them back up separately and counted the "flashes" per minute.


The whopping final results are:


The 12v motored light flashed at 40-41 flashes per minute


The 6v motored light flashed at 37-38 flashes per minute.


So, that justifies the 6v motor on a 6v truck system revolves SLOWER than a 12v motor on a 6v truck system. And both are still way under the lower end of the 60 or 70-80 fpm Dan suggested.


I dont understand it... Does anyone else?? Someone with electrical knowledge please HELP ME!! ( All reversing the wires as far as positive ground and negative does is reverse the direction the motor turns, so its not a matter of powering it)


Thanks


Nick

 

[stansdds]

Slow rotation speeds like that have me thinking either the mechanism is dirty or gummy or the motors are worn and tired.

 

[dmathieu]

Silly question, but did those flash rate #s come by hooking up the 12V motor to 12V, or to the 6V truck?


If you hooked both up to the 6V truck, try the 12V on a 12V source..


It seems odd, or a run of bad luck, that you would find 2 lights with sloooow motors.

 

[Hoser]

Slow rotation speeds like that have me thinking either the mechanism is dirty or gummy or the motors are worn and tired.

Im thinking the same thing. Dirty contacts or brushes worn.

 

[Captain4164]

Ok Ill try the 12v on a 12v batt. That would be just my luck tho, both bein worn. Are parts or motors around for these?

 

[Captain4164]

Lets see if I can post this video. Ok, it worked. This is my test of a 12v on the left and a 6v on the right. The bulbs, again, are not an issue. I can switch bulbs in lights and get the same exact results, I have different CP bulbs

 

[dmathieu]

How did you make out?

 

[Captain4164]

How did you make out?

Y know, I been working on the body work for the bed of the truck, I haven't even tried the 12v on a 12v battery. But I may almost be thinking that the 6v is a 12v too....ill try the known 12v on my Dakota tomorrow.. Sorry, got into trying to get the truck goin again and forgot all about the lights. :bonk: :duh:

 

[Captain4164]

I hooked the M101 generator trailer to the Power Wagon yesterday and made a 60 mile round trip with it, Had to do some work on the bed sides for the truck. Well I know it doesn't really fit here, but heres a few pics of the tandem. Gonna go try to get the Beacon Rays figured out now...

 

[Skip Goulet]

I hooked the M101 generator trailer to the Power Wagon yesterday and made a 60 mile round trip with it, Had to do some work on the bed sides for the truck. Well I know it doesn't really fit here, but heres a few pics of the tandem. Gonna go try to get the Beacon Rays figured out now...


View attachment 32244View attachment 32243

Very nice, Nick. Are you going to put a bed on the truck when you finish?

 

[Captain4164]

Very nice, Nick. Are you going to put a bed on the truck when you finish?

Not the trailer bed. I have a normal pick up bed, and that will go on the truck. The original pick up bed. I got the trailer to do the hauling and such, as the truck bed will have an oak floor and I wouldn't wanna mess that up hauling stuff. The trailer bed has the roll on Herculiner on it, so I don't care if I screw that up, I can always re do it and touch it up.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Not the trailer bed. I have a normal pick up bed, and that will go on the truck. The original pick up bed. I got the trailer to do the hauling and such, as the truck bed will have an oak floor and I wouldn't wanna mess that up hauling stuff. The trailer bed has the roll on Herculiner on it, so I don't care if I screw that up, I can always re do it and touch it up.

That's what I meant, Nick, the bed on the pickup. I imagine it'll look nice, especially when you get the juniors in place.

 

[Captain4164]

yeah, just gotta wait for fire season to get here so I can get back into some overtime, so i can get extra funds to do it all.This is a lean time during spring, usin up all my stash for the winter and not getting overtime yet

 

[dmathieu]

Beautiful truck and trailer!!!!

 

[Captain4164]

Beautiful truck and trailer!!!!

Thanks Dan, still need to get out there and check those lights!! I keep getting distracted by other things. Just got the second gasket set from Dcaptain for the yellow jr, so I gotta get that set up too

 

[Captain4164]

Ok, well here is the verdict.


I just went out to test the 12v and 6v on a 12 v battery.


I put a 12v bulb in them to test them.


The 12v light, that I knew was 12v, the original red one, spins del within the 70 to 80 flashes per min, really cranks.


The amber one, that I bought, and is tagged with a 6v tag, spins JUST AS FAST, well within the 70-80 flashes!


Does that mean its NOT a 6v, but a mislabeled 12v?? If it were 6v, wouldn't it burn the 6v motor?


Im not happy about this.

 

[wfdstation42]

If applying 12 volts to the 6V light gets you the suggested flash rate that may mean it is a 12 volt motor. Running a 6 volt motor on 12 volts will NOT burn it out. It would just spin faster than usual. That is how they accomplish fast rotators on modern day light bars, they put a 9 volt or 6 volt motor on a rotator and when connected to 12 volts they spin faster.

 

[Captain4164]

If applying 12 volts to the 6V light gets you the suggested flash rate that may mean it is a 12 volt motor. Running a 6 volt motor on 12 volts will NOT burn it out. It would just spin faster than usual. That is how they accomplish fast rotators on modern day light bars, they put a 9 volt or 6 volt motor on a rotator and when connected to 12 volts they spin faster.

ok, thanks. this bites, i wanted a 6v motor to spin at its max, 2 12v motors aren't gonna spin good on a 6v system. thought I was buying a 6v. Oh well

 

[stansdds]

Unfortunately, with old beacons, parts often get swapped around. You might have a model 15 that had it's motor replaced, or the original badge or skirt were damaged and replaced. There have been plenty of beacons on eBay with the wrong domes and badges, sometimes the beacon is just a mash up of parts from different manufacturers.

 

[dmathieu]

ok, thanks. this bites, i wanted a 6v motor to spin at its max, 2 12v motors aren't gonna spin good on a 6v system. thought I was buying a 6v. Oh well

Don't dispair yet! Look into the resistor that I talked about, like my 6 Volt Rota-Beam has. It has a 12 Volt motor, ans a resistor to bring it down to 6 Volt. Find an electrical guru!

 

[Captain4164]

Don't dispair yet! Look into the resistor that I talked about, like my 6 Volt Rota-Beam has. It has a 12 Volt motor, ans a resistor to bring it down to 6 Volt. Find an electrical guru!

I have been told it won't work in that direction, a resistor steps power down. So a 12v system, step that DOWN for 6v light with a resistor. It won't work with a 6v system to step UP to a 12v light. The light requires more power than the system has to provide.

 

[dmathieu]

I was just looking, and to change to 12 volt, it says to cut jumper wire across resistor. This must be a 6 Vole motor in the Rota-Beam, and putting the resistor in line changes it to 12 Volt. Sorry, just the opposite of what I thought it was.


OK....... now you can dispair!

 

[Captain4164]

I was just looking, and to change to 12 volt, it says to cut jumper wire across resistor. This must be a 6 Vole motor in the Rota-Beam, and putting the resistor in line changes it to 12 Volt. Sorry, just the opposite of what I thought it was.

OK....... now you can dispair!

ok, here goes.. :cry: :hopeless: :sadcry: :hissyfit: :Banghead: :worried:

 

[dmathieu]

Contact Joe Dorgan, he may be able to set you up with a 6 Volt motor, or light.


You should be able to reach him via John's web site, or phone number.

 

[Captain4164]

Ok, whats his website, cuz I need some parts for my Q2B also


Dis regard, I found it, had it saved in my favorites from some time back

 

[dmathieu]

Try diggerdoug. He may have something in his shop.

 

[dmathieu]

How about this in 6 Volt?


PM751 / Dietz 7-61

 

[Captain4164]

Thats cool. Looks like the same kind of rotator, the bulb stays and the lenses rotate? Plastic dome?


Just outta curiosity, what would be close to these, the Jr and the one you have, that would from the 48 era?


I think Im gonna stick with the Jr, it'll just turn slow. I sure like the jrs a lot.

 

[dmathieu]

Thats cool. Looks like the same kind of rotator, the bulb stays and the lenses rotate? Plastic dome?

Just outta curiosity, what would be close to these, the Jr and the one you have, that would from the 48 era?


I think Im gonna stick with the Jr, it'll just turn slow. I sure like the jrs a lot.

Yes, yes, ans the Junior is definitely a better light, and the older of the 2, but these are nice, and have the magnets and cord and plug. Just a thought.

 

[Captain4164]

Yes, yes, ans the Junior is definitely a better light, and the older of the 2, but these are nice, and have the magnets and cord and plug. Just a thought.

Appreciate the offer and the thought, thanks.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Ok, well here is the verdict.

I just went out to test the 12v and 6v on a 12 v battery.


I put a 12v bulb in them to test them.


The 12v light, that I knew was 12v, the original red one, spins del within the 70 to 80 flashes per min, really cranks.


The amber one, that I bought, and is tagged with a 6v tag, spins JUST AS FAST, well within the 70-80 flashes!


Does that mean its NOT a 6v, but a mislabeled 12v?? If it were 6v, wouldn't it burn the 6v motor?


Im not happy about this.

My experience has been that by putting a 12-volt bulb into a 6-volt light that a bit of impedance is created which prevents mtor burnout. We did that with a very old 6-volt Mars DL8 light that went onto our '60 Chevy ambulance. The car, of course, was 12-volt. We put a 12-volt jr. beacon bulb (a 1019, I think J.D. had said) in place of the original 6-volt bulb. We had decided that if the motor burned out on 12-volt, we'd just put a flasher in the circuit and run it that way. But, as your other replier says, all it did was make the light spin a lot faster. And was that light ever bright, as I think I've mentioned before. But since you're using a 6-volt system, that isn't an issue. What I can't figure out is that if that one light you have tha is labelled 12-volts is actually 12-volts, then it would turn much, much slower when 6-volts are applied. For example, I have an alarm siren I got from a friend years ago that is about the size of a Federal EG/WG siren (6" diameter siren). It's a 230-volt siren, but 110-volt housepower will turn it over nicely, just not at full speed. If the one labelled 12-volt spins the same as your 6-volt light, then I would figure that at some point in the light's history, someone removed the original 12-volt motor and bulb and replaced with a 66-volt motor and bulb to do just what you're doing, putting it on an older vehicle. Look on the motor. Usually the voltage is engraved somewhere on the motor. That should tell you for sure. If it's actually a 12-volt motor, then you've got me stymied.

 

[Captain4164]

My experience has been that by putting a 12-volt bulb into a 6-volt light that a bit of impedance is created which prevents mtor burnout. We did that with a very old 6-volt Mars DL8 light that went onto our '60 Chevy ambulance. The car, of course, was 12-volt. We put a 12-volt jr. beacon bulb (a 1019, I think J.D. had said) in place of the original 6-volt bulb. We had decided that if the motor burned out on 12-volt, we'd just put a flasher in the circuit and run it that way. But, as your other replier says, all it did was make the light spin a lot faster. And was that light ever bright, as I think I've mentioned before. But since you're using a 6-volt system, that isn't an issue. What I can't figure out is that if that one light you have tha is labelled 12-volts is actually 12-volts, then it would turn much, much slower when 6-volts are applied. For example, I have an alarm siren I got from a friend years ago that is about the size of a Federal EG/WG siren (6" diameter siren). It's a 230-volt siren, but 110-volt housepower will turn it over nicely, just not at full speed. If the one labelled 12-volt spins the same as your 6-volt light, then I would figure that at some point in the light's history, someone removed the original 12-volt motor and bulb and replaced with a 66-volt motor and bulb to do just what you're doing, putting it on an older vehicle. Look on the motor. Usually the voltage is engraved somewhere on the motor. That should tell you for sure. If it's actually a 12-volt motor, then you've got me stymied.

Yeah, the red one is definitely a 12v. The motor is stamped "12 volt". The amber one is an open motor so it has nothing on it. Guess Im just gonna run the closed 12v motor and hopefully be able to come across a 6v motor for it some day.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Yeah, the red one is definitely a 12v. The motor is stamped "12 volt". The amber one is an open motor so it has nothing on it. Guess Im just gonna run the closed 12v motor and hopefully be able to come across a 6v motor for it some day.

Nick: Try giving Joe Dorgan (John's son) a call. I'm sure he's back to work by now. The number is 520-790-0196. He may possibly have a 6-volt motor, or maybe even a 6-volt Junior, and could very well be willing to do some trading as well.

 

[Captain4164]

Nick: Try giving Joe Dorgan (John's son) a call. I'm sure he's back to work by now. The number is 520-790-0196. He may possibly have a 6-volt motor, or maybe even a 6-volt Junior, and could very well be willing to do some trading as well.

Ok, I ve emailed once before John passed and twice since then.. Ill try a call

 

[Skip Goulet]

Ok, I ve emailed once before John passed and twice since then.. Ill try a call

Keep trying to get him via phone, Nick. When it comes to parts, Joe may need some specific information to get what you need. Federal was bad about making changes in their siren houses and grilles (minor differences in sizes where they attach to the siren) and so forth. Anyway, Joe knows the business, since he's been running things since John got sick.

 

[Captain4164]

Local A&W Root Beer Restaurant had the last cruise nite of the season. Even though I dont have the bed on, I took my PW to it. Felt out of place pulling in the parking lot. So may street rods, dragsters, etc.


I was one of two Dodge trucks, the only 4x4, the only one without gloss paint, and the only one that isnt finished.


BUT......


I had more people talkin to me or looking at the truck closely than any other of the 50-60 cars there. The guy next to me had a 70 Hemi Cuda. And he was pissed! lol. Said he was comin to these things all year and didnt have that many people lookin at his car all year combined.


Sure gave me the motivation to get the bed done by next cruise nite season and have a competed truck to take.


Anyway, I had the Jr on the roof. Drove over there with it. Thought I'd test it, since I only had 1 90lb magnet on it. Had a piece of a cut up handkerchief under it to save the paint.


When I parked, I climbed up and looked, the cloth was gone, and the light had moved almost two inches, luckily no damage to the paint. So when I left for home I took the light off.


Today, I mounted the other two magnets. Here are the pics of how I did the mounting system, with wire and plug.

 

[Captain4164]

Sorry, for some reason those pics didnt post in order.


Anyway, you can see the hole i reluctantly drilled in the roof, added the grommet, and a plastic cap to cover the hole when not in use, the weatherpac connector, and the clearance of the three 90lb magnets.


Actually looks better than I thought it would. I was worried the three magnets would look bad and not like it, but from the ground you can hardly see them.


Thanks dmathieu and Skip and all that helped me with this!