Federal Sign and Signal model 28

[lotsofbars]

So here's something that I've always wanted! I just got it today (thanks to fireman658) and it's going to be a fun project. This came with an *extremely* clean tag, a finger guard, a very beat up grill, lots of soot and rust, and a very large mounting plate. I don't know exactly when, but I intend to take this apart, clean it up, and paint it. Any tips, pointers, suggestions?


Also, anyone in the NYC area want to meet up and fire this baby up?


PICTURES!








The finger guard:





Fun facts: This is even more dented in person. And it really is that dark, it's not the lighting:





This is all ash:

 

[rick h.]

Great find. I just recently picked up one also . Had been wanting one for years.

 

[Billy Goldfeder]

One of the best sirens...ever. Congrats!

 

[plybeep68]

Sweet!! I have one myself

 

[lotsofbars]

Thanks for the kind words so far! I do agree, it's one of my favorite sirens ever. Does anyone know around when this one was made? I know it has to be pretty old considering it has the "Federal Sign and Signal" tag.

 

[fyrboy]

The finger guard is a nice touch, and it certainly contributes to safety, but it isn't original to Federal. It appears to be a Sireno guard. The emblem appears to be a reproduction, which isn't bad because (1) at least it has one and (2) it's legible! Use a mask for respiratory protection while using a wire brush to get rid of the ash/dirt/dust on the rotor and elsewhere. The mounting plate doesn't appear original, which may not be bad because (1) apparently it serves the purpose and, again (2) it has one! Before applying electricity, turn the rotor by hand to make sure it spins freely. A reputable auto repair shop may be able to help with the dents. Alternatively, a music instrument repair shop may also help. Original color is hammertone gray, as shown. Tough to say when it was made. My '49 catalog (see below) has it, and the latest catalog I have with them in it is dated September, 1974, with a list price of $147.50, but I know they were made for several years after that. Being a New Yorker, you probably know this was the siren of choice for many years at FDNY, and many "back-in-the-day" ambulance manufacturers offered them as standard underhood equipment. The same motor powers the "Q."

 

[lotsofbars]

The finger guard is a nice touch, and it certainly contributes to safety, but it isn't original to Federal. It appears to be a Sireno guard. The emblem appears to be a reproduction, which isn't bad because (1) at least it has one and (2) it's legible! Use a mask for respiratory protection while using a wire brush to get rid of the ash/dirt/dust on the rotor and elsewhere. The mounting plate doesn't appear original, which may not be bad because (1) apparently it serves the purpose and, again (2) it has one! Before applying electricity, turn the rotor by hand to make sure it spins freely. A reputable auto repair shop may be able to help with the dents. Alternatively, a music instrument repair shop may also help. Original color is hammertone gray, as shown. Tough to say when it was made. My '49 catalog (see below) has it, and the latest catalog I have with them in it is dated September, 1974, with a list price of $147.50, but I know they were made for several years after that. Being a New Yorker, you probably know this was the siren of choice for many years at FDNY, and many "back-in-the-day" ambulance manufacturers offered them as standard underhood equipment. The same motor powers the "Q."

Great information! I wonder who on earth would have put a new tag on this siren, as it was apparently found after a firehouse fire in storage.


The mounting plate is actually from the lightbar that this was mounted to and is connected to another mounting foot. The foot itself is odd because the base is the same size as something definitely original, but it seems thicker than something that would be original. Then again, it fits so well that I have no idea what it would have come from. Interesting. Well, I was told that it does work, and so now all I'm really worried about is getting it cosmetically fixed up. Which will not be easy.

 

[lotsofbars]

Here's a picture of the foot:

 

[Captain4164]

When ya finally test it, would love to hear its tone! opcorn:

 

[Wailer]

I'm tempted to say that Federal should put this siren back into production. With so many fire departments wanting mechanical sounds, this would be an excellent siren for smaller vehicles such as pickup trucks, SUVs and cars. But only the model 28, not the 28H. The 28H is a high-pitched siren and it sounds horrible.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Thanks for the kind words so far! I do agree, it's one of my favorite sirens ever. Does anyone know around when this one was made? I know it has to be pretty old considering it has the "Federal Sign and Signal" tag.

This 28 is one of the later models: note the wrap-around finger guard. Per the serial number it was mfg. in 1975. Federal discontinued all but the Q and a few EGs and WLs for export c.1978.

 

[Skip Goulet]

The finger guard is a nice touch, and it certainly contributes to safety, but it isn't original to Federal. It appears to be a Sireno guard. The emblem appears to be a reproduction, which isn't bad because (1) at least it has one and (2) it's legible! Use a mask for respiratory protection while using a wire brush to get rid of the ash/dirt/dust on the rotor and elsewhere. The mounting plate doesn't appear original, which may not be bad because (1) apparently it serves the purpose and, again (2) it has one! Before applying electricity, turn the rotor by hand to make sure it spins freely. A reputable auto repair shop may be able to help with the dents. Alternatively, a music instrument repair shop may also help. Original color is hammertone gray, as shown. Tough to say when it was made. My '49 catalog (see below) has it, and the latest catalog I have with them in it is dated September, 1974, with a list price of $147.50, but I know they were made for several years after that. Being a New Yorker, you probably know this was the siren of choice for many years at FDNY, and many "back-in-the-day" ambulance manufacturers offered them as standard underhood equipment. The same motor powers the "Q."

You're correct about the hammertone gray color on the concealed mount sirens. But the '40s era 28s, C4s and 76s were all painted black, unless requested otherwise on the order.

 

[Henry455]

I am just finishing up a 28 restoration, check your PM's, I might have a few tips to help you.


Tim

 

[Skip Goulet]

I'm tempted to say that Federal should put this siren back into production. With so many fire departments wanting mechanical sounds, this would be an excellent siren for smaller vehicles such as pickup trucks, SUVs and cars. But only the model 28, not the 28H. The 28H is a high-pitched siren and it sounds horrible.

I know you don't like the high-pitched sounds; but to me the 28H is awesome! I have one now that was a Dorgan restoration that I've had for more than 10 years. Nice! When I was a kid one of the Midland P.D. units had a 28H underhood, and it would move traffic better than any of the other common 28s or 76Bs that the P.D. was using back then. The only competition that 28H had was an S8B Siro-Drift siren that was on the accident investigator's car. While it's known that the deeper pitches get more attention, that high shriek of that 28H got its share of attention, big time! :yes:

 

[fireman658]

I can't wait to see how it turns out!!! I got it with some other stuff that was in a fire station fire in Iconium, Missouri. It was mounted on a bar with the 2 Dazl Rays I have for sale. It was in a new addition of the building that had a fire wall built between it and the old building. The fire was in the old part. Everything that was in the newer section only had smoke damage. I had checked it when I first brought it home and it spun very free. A battery and some jumper cables confirmed my suspicions and most of my neighborhood can attest to it working. lol. As a matter of fact I found a pic of it I found a pic I took from when I brought it home, still mounted to the bar.


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[lotsofbars]

I can't wait to see how it turns out!!! I got it with some other stuff that was in a fire station fire in Iconium, Missouri. It was mounted on a bar with the 2 Dazl Rays I have for sale. It was in a new addition of the building that had a fire wall built between it and the old building. The fire was in the old part. Everything that was in the newer section only had smoke damage. I had checked it when I first brought it home and it spun very free. A battery and some jumper cables confirmed my suspicions and most of my neighborhood can attest to it working. lol. As a matter of fact I found a pic of it I found a pic I took from when I brought it home, still mounted to the bar.

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I took it back upstate with me (made my carry on bags weigh 40+ lbs more) and tested it in the middle of nowhere. My god, it has a great sound! It should come out great!

 

[Henry455]

Here is one I recently completed:

 

[NPS Ranger]

Wow that looks brand new.... great job! Back in the day when FedSig stuff was made by craftmen/women to last.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I took it back upstate with me (made my carry on bags weigh 40+ lbs more) and tested it in the middle of nowhere. My god, it has a great sound! It should come out great!

I can just see you carrying that on a plane...especially nowadays. When I went to a PCS meet in Southern CA in 2001, Kevin O'Connell who owns B&M Sirens presented me with a nice newly refurbbed B&M CS8B siren. It replaced an S8B that had been sent to B&M many years ago and had been lost (too long of a story to relate here). Anyway, this was just before the tragedy of 9/11, so I had no problem bringing the siren onboard the plane for the trip back to Texas. But, damn was that thing heavy! The trip around LAX was short, so I had no problem carrying it inside my big duffel. But once at DFW, it was different matter. l I finally found a vacant wheelchair just sitting, so I borrowed it and put that heavy duffel on it a pushed it all the away around that airport to get from one terminal to the other. I was tuckered out when I finally got on board! Doubt that would be allowed nowadays.


The 28 looks good on the bar, even though you didn't see many outside-mount 28s.

 

[fireman658]

I took it back upstate with me (made my carry on bags weigh 40+ lbs more) and tested it in the middle of nowhere. My god, it has a great sound! It should come out great!

Lol. It for sure sounded good when I played with it.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

I know you don't like the high-pitched sounds; but to me the 28H is awesome! I have one now that was a Dorgan restoration that I've had for more than 10 years. Nice! When I was a kid one of the Midland P.D. units had a 28H underhood, and it would move traffic better than any of the other common 28s or 76Bs that the P.D. was using back then. The only competition that 28H had was an S8B Siro-Drift siren that was on the accident investigator's car. While it's known that the deeper pitches get more attention, that high shriek of that 28H got its share of attention, big time! :yes:

I agree.


In my opinion, the 28 is a truck siren, the 28H is a car siren.

 

[foxtrot5]

OK, stupid question time, but since I'm thinking about putting a 28 in my POV I need to ask. Is the 28 a self grounding siren like the Q? What kind of amp draw can I expect to see from it? Do I need any special wiring (relays, solonoids, ect) to make it work without killing my 1500 Chevy?

 

[Henry455]

OK, stupid question time, but since I'm thinking about putting a 28 in my POV I need to ask. Is the 28 a self grounding siren like the Q? What kind of amp draw can I expect to see from it? Do I need any special wiring (relays, solonoids, ect) to make it work without killing my 1500 Chevy?

On the grounding, yes, it grounds thru the mounting base. Just make sure you have a good ground especially if the base is painted. I recommend running a ground wire from one of the mounting base bolts directly to the battery. On current draw, inrush current could be as high as 100 amps but only lasts a second or two. Running draw will probably be about 50-60 amps. I would use #6 wire and use a relay/solenoid rated for 100 amps.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Here is one I recently completed:

Nice, Tim, very nice. How long did it take you to complete the restoration? I have a nice 28H that was a Dorgan restoration that I've had for more than 10 years, but you can't tell it's not new. I guess now I need to box up my two old B&Ms and send to you! :yes:

 

[Skip Goulet]

I agree.
In my opinion, the 28 is a truck siren, the 28H is a car siren.

Arggh......you would discriminate against a sweet sounding siren like that! Since the 28s were made for concealed mount, shouldn't make any difference either way! Speaking of outside mount 28s, we had a 6-volt 28 roof mounted on a '58 Chevy station wagon ambulance many years ago. It was flanked by two red single-faced lollipops. Since the car was 12-v and the siren 6, we had to be careful with it; but it sure would scream when clearing an intersection.

 

[foxtrot5]

For future information, I called Federal Signal's service department and they were able to pull up old documentation on the siren. The tech said that the spec sheet states initial amp draw is 70-80 amps and normal draw after that is between 30-50 depending on how it's run.

 

[Henry455]

Found this on another forum, Federal Power draw chart:

 

[Skip Goulet]

Found this on another forum, Federal Power draw chart:

One thing that hasn't been noted about power draw on the large motor sirens: the listed draw, such as the 75 amps on the 28, is for initial roll over to start the siren, actual running amperage is much lower. Another neat fact about the 28 is that aside from the WLs and EGs, probably more 28s were sold than anything else that Federal produced, including the Q. For many years the 28s were the "go to" siren for hearse-ambulance combinations; and because of their relatively low cost ($75 until the late '60s), they were popular with fire and law enforcement. You wouldn't think so necessarily, but FDNY ran more 28s on their fire apparatus than Qs. I don't know if it was a cost issue or what.

 

[foxtrot5]

OK, so I've been playing with my 28 a bit and it doesn't seem to want to ground through the base at all. I was using an archaic setup of jumper cables hooked direct to the battery to test it. I found that the only way I can get it to roll over is with the positive lead connected to the bolt on the top of the unit and the ground hooked to one of the rear posts. It doesn't do anything else any other configuration.


It looks like the unit has been refurbished and repainted so is it possible that the paint is interrupting the ground somewhere along the line? If so, how can I fix this?

 

[tsquale]

OK, so I've been playing with my 28 a bit and it doesn't seem to want to ground through the base at all. I was using an archaic setup of jumper cables hooked direct to the battery to test it. I found that the only way I can get it to roll over is with the positive lead connected to the bolt on the top of the unit and the ground hooked to one of the rear posts. It doesn't do anything else any other configuration.

It looks like the unit has been refurbished and repainted so is it possible that the paint is interrupting the ground somewhere along the line? If so, how can I fix this?

Try using a small wire brush or sand paper to remove the paint in one of the base's bolt holes and see if that helps. I had to do that on my model 10.

 

[foxtrot5]

I'll give it a shot. thanks for the tip!

 

[foxtrot5]

Try using a small wire brush or sand paper to remove the paint in one of the base's bolt holes and see if that helps. I had to do that on my model 10.

I ended up taking the pedestal mount off of it and using a wire brush to get rid of some of the paint on the body of the siren that's normally covered by the siren anyway. I also brushed away excess paint from the "U" of the pedestal mount, and used a circular file to get paint out of the bolt holes in the base of the pedestal. Put everything back together and you can't even tell any paint is missing. I attached the jumper cables to the base and tapped it to the top bolt and off she went! Thanks for all the good info guys! :thumbsup:

 

[Skip Goulet]

I ended up taking the pedestal mount off of it and using a wire brush to get rid of some of the paint on the body of the siren that's normally covered by the siren anyway. I also brushed away excess paint from the "U" of the pedestal mount, and used a circular file to get paint out of the bolt holes in the base of the pedestal. Put everything back together and you can't even tell any paint is missing. I attached the jumper cables to the base and tapped it to the top bolt and off she went! Thanks for all the good info guys! :thumbsup:

Glad all of that helped. I know you'll like how it sounds now that you've got it up and running. As you're aware by now, the 28 is not a long rolling siren and was never desgined to be; but a friend of mine in Indiana had one on a '65 Buick hearse/ambulance combo that rolled almost as well as a coaster siren, but not excessively. I've always been accustomed to the fairly quick roll down of the 28s, but that one really surprised me. Talk about something that was well balanced....!

 

[foxtrot5]

From my install thread:

Yes indeed. A Federal Sign & Signal Corporation Model 28 siren!

And what is this? A 100 amp circuit breaker and a continuous duty solenoid?


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Indeed, that's definitely a Cole-Hersee solenoid!


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And for sure, that's a heavy duty breaker!


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What do you suppose goes here?


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A better view may help your guess!


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And, the finished product!

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Another angle


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And wouldn't you know it, as soon as I finished cleaning up all the tools and everything, it started to downpour so the video is going to have to wait...

 

[ryanstokes]

Here is one I recently completed:


View attachment 184654


View attachment 184655

Where did you acquire the back plate with the federal tag. I have recently found a model 28 at our station and it works fine just needs cosmetic work done.

 

[NPS Ranger]

Where did you acquire the back plate with the federal tag. I have recently found a model 28 at our station and it works fine just needs cosmetic work done.

Holy timewarp, Batman! You know that you replied to a 6 year old thread, right? I don't think Henry455 has been on here for several months.

 

[lotsofbars]

Where did you acquire the back plate with the federal tag. I have recently found a model 28 at our station and it works fine just needs cosmetic work done.

It came like that, but you can check ebay for good reproductions. There are many repro tags on there that are custom made to your specs, all for a decent price.

 

[Kyleestridge]

Is anyone still active in this stread? If so I have a few questions about a 28 that im cleaning up to put into service

 

[dmathieu]

I have a 12 Volt silver, and a 6 Volt black.

 

[Kyleestridge]

So I have my 28 mostly apart, I can't get a few screws undone on the inside of the back plate to get in and regrease all the moving parts on the inside, any recommendations to get them off without testing anything up and what type of grease to use?