smsales
Member
I have a dept. that wants clear LEDS in the reverse lights of a new brush truck, im pretty sure i have seen some where that this isnt allowed. I cant find it online anywhere, any help would be great! Thanks!
smsales said:i just dont want to install them and then the truck gets hit, bc they where blinded by the clear lights. then it falls on me.
smsales said:i just dont want to install them and then the truck gets hit, bc they where blinded by the clear lights. then it falls on me.
smsales said:I have a dept. that wants clear LEDS in the reverse lights of a new brush truck, I'm pretty sure i have seen some where that this isn't allowed. I cant find it online anywhere, any help would be great! Thanks!
car54 said:I don't recall the exact website, I believe its under michigan.gov. Do a search for Michigan vehicle warning lights and it should come up under a pdf. file. Hope that helps alittle.
Just found it under plowsite.com, it didn't mention anything about no white lights to the rear?
cory y said:My god people. A pair or 2 of white flashing lights are NOT going to blind anybody any more or any less than a set of high beams or mis alighed headlights.
The "I'm afraid of white to the rear" bullshit is exactly that bullshit. If the customer desires white freaking do it. You're not going to gt sued over what a customer decided. Its on THEM not YOU.
You are misreading what I said, that white is allowed under Michigan law for any emergency vehicle.deputychief301 said:Fire1, I don't know what county you're from in Michigan, but it sounds like you're living in a
county that law enforcement is not pro fire.
Jim Rogers
deputychief301
fire1 said:I am going to disagree with you on this, & I am only saying this for Michigan & Wisconsin, but would guess all states have a similar law. Even at a customers request. if it would violate the law.
You as a dealer or upfitter shall not sell, loan or otherwise furnish a flashing, rotating, or oscillating light designed primarily for installation. You can be fined or can be subject to a lawsuit. You can argue about this with me all day long. But the law is the law.
jprleedy4680 said:Michigan Legislature - Section 257.603
MCL 257.603 (4)(5)
4) The exemptions granted in this section to an authorized emergency vehicle apply only when the driver of the vehicle while in motion sounds an audible signal by bell, siren, air horn, or exhaust whistle as may be reasonably necessary, except as provided in subsection (5), and when the vehicle is equipped with at least 1 lighted lamp displaying a flashing, oscillating, or rotating red or blue light visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of 500 feet in a 360 degree arc unless it is not advisable to equip a police vehicle operating as an authorized emergency vehicle with a flashing, oscillating or rotating light visible in a 360 degree arc. In those cases, a police vehicle shall display a flashing, oscillating, or rotating red or blue light visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of 500 feet to the front of the vehicle. Only police vehicles that are publicly owned shall be equipped with a flashing, oscillating, or rotating blue light that when activated is visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of 500 feet in a 360 degree arc.
(5) A police vehicle shall retain the exemptions granted in this section to an authorized emergency vehicle without sounding an audible signal if the police vehicle is engaged in an emergency run in which silence is required.
I have heard of the "no white to the rear" rule as well, but per this section of the MI Motor Vehicle Code, I cannot find
any wording saying it is not permitted. Many emergency vehicles I have seen all over the state have white HAW/LAW's in the reverse lights. Is there someone that could clear this up officially for we Michigan folks? Does anyone know of another section of the MVC where it bans the use of rear whites?
fire1 said:2 things this site does not tell you. That when you are plowing you must have a amber only (the use of white is not allowed), clearly visible in a 360 degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. This leave the cheap lights that go up & down out. The other one became law 1/1/2010. If you are paid for hire. You must have a minimum of a 87dB backup alarm in use when backing up.
cory y said:I will argure with you all day long cause you have no clue about what you speak. Its not on me or my company if a customer uses an illegal light.
badge22 said:Can you site these statutes please? Last I heard there was no law requiring a snow plow to have amber lights, just that they are permitted to.
Thanks
Andy L. said:I'll have to dig through my legal updates by I should be able to come up with that for you.
smsales said:I have a dept. that wants clear LEDS in the reverse lights of a new brush truck, im pretty sure i have seen some where that this isnt allowed. I cant find it online anywhere, any help would be great! Thanks!
smsales said:Just and update for you guys, only bc i have not seen it in replies. IT IS NOT A LAW, per say, i found it in NFPA 1901. Which trumps MI MVC. In 1901 it states that clear is
allowed in conjunction with red while moving. once you stop, and become stationary, the clear must be turned off. HOWEVER, in NFPA it states that clear maybe used in any position except for C which is the rear.
Thanks for all the replies. And I will post pics when the truck is done.
See Page 5.
http://www.whelen.com/pb/Automotive/Catalogs/NFPA_1901_Lighting_Specification_Catalog.pdf
smsales said:Just and update for you guys, only bc i have not seen it in replies. IT IS NOT A LAW, per say, i found it in NFPA 1901. Which trumps MI MVC. In 1901 it states that clear is
allowed in conjunction with red while moving. once you stop, and become stationary, the clear must be turned off. HOWEVER, in NFPA it states that clear maybe used in any position except for C which is the rear.
Thanks for all the replies. And I will post pics when the truck is done.
See Page 5.
http://www.whelen.com/pb/Automotive/Catalogs/NFPA_1901_Lighting_Specification_Catalog.pdf
badge22 said:Can you site these statutes please? Last I heard there was no law requiring a snow plow to have amber lights, just that they are permitted to.
Thanks
Zack said:I would like to preface my remarks with two things:
1) I can't imagine the police having issue with white being installed in this case.
2) I am not familiar with Michigan Law.
However,
What are the national laws regarding lighting? Isn't there a provision from NHTSA or DOT regarding rear facing light only being used while a vehicle is reversing?
And then...
Does Michigan have any laws that make the federal laws enforceable by local/state authorities?
(In Massachusetts, we can enforce Federal DOT rules regarding non-OEM lighting equipment (for example) because we have a Mass General Law that says we can follow the Fed wording in enforcement.)
You know, just to throw another wrench in the conversation.
Andy L. said:Interesting points Zach. I will dig through and see what there is that provides for that authority. Seems I've read that somewhere in the MI MVC...to the effect of "a vehicle must meet Federal DOT standards in place at the time of manufacture." I know it isn't common place for most officer to enforce things in that manner, but that isn't to say it can't be done.
Zack said:It would be worth a check of 49 CFR Part 571 and see what it says about lighting... and then see if MI has it's own law or regulation requiring vehicles to comply.
S5.1.3 No additional lamp, reflective device or other motor vehicle equipment shall be installed that impairs the effectiveness of lighting equipment required by this standard.
S5.5.10 The wiring requirements for lighting equipment in use are:
(a) Turn signal lamps, hazard warning signal lamps, and school bus warning lamps shall be wired to flash;
( B) Headlamps and side marker lamps may be wired to flash for signaling purposes;
© A motorcycle headlamp may be wired to allow either its upper beam or its lower beam, but not both, to modulate from a higher intensity to a lower intensity in accordance with section S5.6;
(d) All other lamps shall be wired to be steady-burning.
CenTexPSE said:Lots of people try to push the "You have to comply with NFPA" . NFPA is just a set of guidelines, no laws.
One way that you may have to comply with NFPA is on a grant. If you received a grant for this vehicle, it MIGHT state in the contract that it must have an NFPA compliant lighting package. That may be something you need to check in to.
If there are no stipulations like that, then the NFPA guidelines are just that, guidelines.
Andy L. said:Got it figured out. Senate Bill 0980 of 02/2010 lists the changes. The bill was postponed though in 12/2010 so that's why nothing more has been heard on it as of yet.
badge22 said:Response from the Michigan State Police:
Thank you for posting your question with Contact MSP. It has been forwarded to my office for a response.
According to the Michigan Vehicle Code, "(5) The use or possession of flashing, oscillating, or rotating lights of any color is prohibited except as otherwise provided by law, or under the following circumstances:
(d) Flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights, placed in a position as to be visible throughout an arc of 360 degrees, shall be used by a state, county, or municipal vehicle engaged in the removal of ice, snow, or other material from the highway and in other operations designed to control ice and snow.
(f) a vehicle utilized for snow removal...may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights. The flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights shall not be activated except in those circumstances that the warning produced by the lights is required for public safety."
State, county or city owned snowplows are required to have the light. Private snowplow drivers are not required to have the light. They may ONLY activate it in those circumstances that the warning produced by the light is required for public safety while plowing. They are not allowed to drive down the road with it activated.
You may view the law here. It is covered in subsection 5(d) & (f): Michigan Legislature - Section 257.698
There is not a state law or commercial vehicle requirement to have a backup alarm.
Thank you,
Sgt. Jill M. Bennett
Michigan State Police
Traffic Safety Division
Traffic Services Section
333 S. Grand Avenue
Lansing, MI 48933
TX: 517-241-0576
Fax: 517-241-0501
Andy L. said:I am guessing that for whatever reason the proposed bill 0980 died off since its been 9 months since it was tabled. The answer above from MSP lists the current state laws which have been in place for as long as I can remember. I don't really see much need for the proposed changes myself...seems most all snow plows are running amber lights as needed already. Now if they would enact a law that banned the sale of those $5 blinking lights the newspaper delivery people use I would be all for it!