Pigeon Forge TN Fire Chief's CANTrol'ed Expedition

C2Installs · Aug 10, 2013

Hang on to your hats...

This is the PFFD Chief's new 2013 Expedition. He wanted Whelen, so he got Whelen...and then some. Chief came to me with a concept and a wish list. I worked it over and removed some items while adding others for more utility and effect. He originally wanted a CenCom Sapphire, but I was able to sell him on CANTrol once he looked over my article on the system that was in Police Fleet Manager last summer. The overall inspiration for my build was the Expedition Whelen displayed at FDIC, which Hugh A. provided pics of.

So, here's the list:

Whelen:

1x Par46 spot/warn bulb for spotlight

1x Split Inner-Edge LINZ6, all red in windshield

2x Wide angle IONs - Upper Grille

2x Par36 warn/drive interweaved fog light replacements - Lower front fascia

2x LinZ6 r/w split recess mounted in lower corner fascia (this was a trick, but looks awesome)

2x VLED led combo warn/spot/puddles on upper front quarter panels (mounted with 18* spacers)

2x Wide angle IONs - Mirror fronts

2x Standard ION - Rear doors

2x Standard ION - Rear windows

2x Vertex - Brake light housings

2x LinZ6 - with TIR3 narrow flanges and Vertical LP bracket (would go with horizontal if doing over...spread is terrible)

1x Howler Siren w/ dual speakers

1x SA315 Speaker

1x CANTrol system with "CenCom" remote head

1x CANTrol remote 16 WeCan module

SoundOff Signal:

2x 10" flush mount LED strip lights - recess mounted in rear hatch panel

2x 6"x3" interior LED dome light - mounted in rear cargo area headliner recesses

2x Mity Nite lights - rear bumper for reverse and scene lighting

1x Universal dual color LED dome light, r/w

1x Select-a-pattern solid state headlight flasher

Feniex:

Cobra 800 r/a light stick - rear hatch upper glass

TITAN 600 worklight - front lower grille

Other:

Unity post mount spotlight

Havis console

Havis laptop docking station

3-hole DC outlet box

SL20X flashlight and charger

2x Kenwood radios (NX800, TK8180)

1x Motorola 700 band radio with speaker

3x low profile "can" antennas for appropriate bands

So the install took a bit of time and was done in three phases based on when items arrived. Feniex took the longest, Whelen stuff was here in two days. Final phase just finished tonight and involved Feniex install, spotlight install, and CANTrol modifications. This truck is cool.

So my concept was to have a very well lit vehicle that could move through Pigeon Forges notoriously heavy traffic, which is filled with very distracted tourist drivers and stubborn local drivers. Because he wanted a slick-top, I had to make sure lighting was adequate from all angles and multiple levels. I wanted to have 100% on time from any angle but still have enough "movement" to be eye catching. Lights were placed to be no more than four feet apart on the truck's perimeter (without regard to height). White light was only used at front forward of the mirror, with the VLED spots, Par46 spot/warn, LinZ6 splits, Par36 driving lights, and TITAN work light augmenting the headlight flasher. The LinZ6 splits are also working as a surrogate HAW as I did not want to mess with trying to put LEDs in the headlight housings. They work terrific and are an excellent and much more effective solution, IMO. Great output with excellent spread...no split fail there.

The CANTrol system was the second I've worked with and the first I installed on my own. It took some time and lots of phone-a-friends to get the programming worked out. I still have some glitches to sort through, but all are from my lack of experience. The system does what you tell it to. The inputs I wired were horn ring, park sense, headlight sense, brake sense, marker light sense, fog lights, reverse lights, and ignition. I have the system fairly complex with different inputs resulting in different lighting functions. I have not quite got everything working the way I planned, but will with a bit more tweaking.

The Whelen stuff was pretty simple to install, no real tricks here, just used good mounting brackets and selected lights specifically for each location. Fabrication was minimized. No surprises with making it all work, either. I have a Whelen scan-lock programmer that made setting all the lights to steady burn quick and easy. Wiring the CANTrol is not hard, but it can take a bit of time to run all the circuits. The Remote 16 unit made it easier...all front lighting is powered by it and it connects to the master CANTrol with a two-wire communications cable.

The Feniex products are ok. They were a compromise to save a little and keep the job in budget. I really didn't think a rear stick was needed and didn't want to drop $700 into a LinZ6 Dominator. If I was doing it over, I would kick the Cobra 800 to the curb and use a TIR3 D8 instead to save money over the LinZ6 D8. I expected the Cobra to work better through the factory tint given the rave reviews and tir-like optics. It's just ok. It did mount cleanly (had to make brackets, though, it comes with none) and was easy to wire. The patterns are so so. I guess I just wish I had kept the lighting all Whelen. Customer is happy, and the Cobra works. It's interior mounted, so hopefully it will be reliable.

The TITAN 600 is also ok. It is fairly bright and was inexpensive. It, too, lacked brackets. What I don;t like is that the lightheads are all somewhat different colors, some more blue or yellow than white, some white, one a bit purple. It's subtle, but still noticeable. The TITAN was chosen because it is very thin and fit the lower grille opening yet still left decent airflow. Original idea was to install a push bumper and mount Micro pioneers to it. Obviously, the TITAN solution is much less expensive. Plus, a little bird told me to pick Howler or push bumper, due to both items using the same frame mounting points. If I had to do it again, I might still use the TITAN. Why is it that Whelen or SOS don't have a similar product?

The VLEDs are killer. They look good on the fender, are amazingly bright given that the LED panels are very small, and visible from all angles. Just wow. The spot light (alley light) is great, and the CANTrol system allow it to be counter-flashed with the red. It hammers intersections at side angles. The puddle light is neat, but certainly not necessary. I'm not really sure it's useful. I tied it to the factory mirror-mounted step light on each side.

The IONS are bright. Really bright. Mounting is pretty good if using the screw/glue bracket, but the clamp bracket is not all that great and distorts easily when tightening. The pedestal mounts were used in the grille and they are very nice. Unfortunately, they are pretty expensive.

The rest of the install was pretty basic. The SOS interior lights are a great value and look sharp. The rear cargo area lights up like an operating room. Really. It's wired to a separate switch because it is really overkill for general use. Perfect for digging for gear or setting up a command post. The SUV may get a pull-out tray and command center down the road, but not this budget.

Anyway, I'll post more as i go. In the meantime, here are some crappy night videos I just shot tonight and I will get pics and day vids tomorrow. I know, I know...Illumi-fail.

Mode 1: Mid and lower level perimeter lighting only, red only, set to Steady-Flash (the MA state police pattern. It's excellent for on-scene use, but video doesn't capture it well)

Zapp Brannigan · Aug 10, 2013

C2Installs said:
Thanks for looking and check back for pics and day vids.

Looking forward to day videos, bit of a blur of light at night!!

jrfive0 · Aug 10, 2013

the good: awesome install, top notch equipment

the bad: marked FD and EMS vehicles have absolutely no business being slick top. Slick top installations are for law enforcement,period. FD and EMS don't have to "sneak up" in a line of traffic so the guy in front doesn't see a visible roof bar in his rearview when he decides to commit a traffic violation. No matter how bright and fancy the lighting is, it will never, I repeat never, have the same effect, reach, and 360 degree light throw as a roof mounted light bar. I dare anyone to disagree, because if you do well you obviously repeated the 5th grade a couple times :haha:

irsa76 · Aug 10, 2013

jrfive0 said:
the good: awesome install, top notch equipment

the bad: marked FD and EMS vehicles have absolutely no business being slick top. Slick top installations are for law enforcement,period. FD and EMS don't have to "sneak up" in a line of traffic so the guy in front doesn't see a visible roof bar in his rearview when he decides to commit a traffic violation. No matter how bright and fancy the lighting is, it will never, I repeat never, have the same effect, reach, and 360 degree light throw as a roof mounted light bar. I dare anyone to disagree, because if you do well you obviously repeated the 5th grade a couple times :haha:

While I agree, this being a chief's vehicle I can understand going slicktop due to height issues in residential garages etc.

TaskforceATX · Aug 10, 2013

jrfive0 said:
the good: awesome install, top notch equipment

the bad: marked FD and EMS vehicles have absolutely no business being slick top. Slick top installations are for law enforcement,period. FD and EMS don't have to "sneak up" in a line of traffic so the guy in front doesn't see a visible roof bar in his rearview when he decides to commit a traffic violation. No matter how bright and fancy the lighting is, it will never, I repeat never, have the same effect, reach, and 360 degree light throw as a roof mounted light bar. I dare anyone to disagree, because if you do well you obviously repeated the 5th grade a couple times :haha:

When living in Texas I as a FF had a slick top, I did that because I did not want a light bar on top of my vehicle or drill into the roof.

twodogs603 · Aug 10, 2013

Houston, we have a problem when a vehicle has more lights then a fire truck. :duh:

Just kidding, it looks good.

You must have a ton of man hours doing the install on all that equipment. I cant imagine what that bill will be. Wow.

C2Installs · Aug 10, 2013

While I'm generally not a fan of slicktops (lights too small, tint restrictions, mounting difficulty, flashback, restricted vision, head hazard in crash, need to augment with mutliple additional lights, ineffective scene lighting, difficulty in cleaning windshield, likely won't transfer to a new vehicle, and more), I do think this one turned out ok. I understand not wanting a lightbar on this vehicle. It's the Chief's ride and he wanted a slightly lower profile considering he drives it almost exclusively. The lightbar would have looked crowded with the roof rack. It would have possible created a clearance issue in his garage as it came close in mine. And, given the vehicle's height and size, supplemental lights would have still been needed at rear, front and sides. Plus, he wanted to keep the install as close to fuel cost neutral as possible. I tried to use that logic to kill the PITA spotlight install, but no luck.

The interior bar chosen is significantly bright, at least as bright any similar-sized modules on a lightbar. I skipped the takedowns as the added scene lighting would have been minimal. And I set the patterns so each side fully opposed the other...no "sprinkle lighting." It creates a powerful signal. The windshield is just big enough that the light doesn't affect vision too much. Finally, given the extensive perimeter lighting, a full bar would have been overkill.

I do not approve of slicktops for LE in most cases. It's hard to really be sneaky in most cases and police cars are small and lack visibility. We run emergency traffic more often and at faster speeds under higher stress conditions. Police cars should not compromise on lighting. I also think interior bars are not really needed to have an effective slicktop. For example, this Expedition would have been fine without the front or rear bar. But they do add to the overall effectiveness and put lights above lower rooflines for near distance visibility. The interior bars in this SUV are higher than most sedan lightbars...not so in a sedan slicktop, so you lose near distance visibility. Cops need to use slicktops very carefully, IMO. And I say that as a driver of a slicktop admin car. One that has nearly the same lighting as this SUV (F&R Inner Edge, M2 grilles, Micro Pioneers, VLEDS, Mirror Beams, 6x Vertex, dual spot/warn insert, wigwag, CenCom Sapphire). I light up just fine, but it took a lot more money to do than a lightbar and grille lights.

Anyway...off to shoot video.

pdk9 · Aug 10, 2013

I certainly prefer lightbars on marked FD vehicles 100x over slick top marked FD vehicles, but I still absolutely love this vehicle!!! This is definitely the newest addition to my top 10 all-time ELB favorites list, due to the combo of fantastic light selection & placement, flash patterns, & graphics.

The VLEDs look phenomenal and I was impressed with the punch from the rear! I definitely am not a fan of the cobra pattern and also would've preferred a TIR dominator. Definitely looking forward to the daytime vids/pics.

Also, slightly off topic, but the names of some towns/villages/townships/FPDs in the US absolutely crack me up.

Jamey@NNE · Aug 10, 2013

Wish it would of been out and about when I was up there! Really great job on it!

C2Installs · Aug 10, 2013

Day vids...

Mode 2:

I think the Feniex Cobra800 is highly overrated. Very disappointed with it given its performance through tint.

lafd55 · Aug 10, 2013

Definitely a FAIL install..... No lightbar. Height issues you say, I don't see that much more of a clearance issue by adding a liberty, justice, or legacy. He wanted a vehicle more low profile, then why does it have graphics, how is not having a lightbar anymore low profile?

C2Installs · Aug 10, 2013

lafd55 said:
Definitely a FAIL install..... No lightbar. Height issues you say, I don't see that much more of a clearance issue by adding a liberty, justice, or legacy. He wanted a vehicle more low profile, then why does it have graphics, how is not having a lightbar anymore low profile?

The install is not a fail. I built it like they wanted it. I don't write the spec and I don't try talking the chief out of what he wants. I didn't try to sit down with him a reeducate him. I can't see what a lightbar would offer on this install. At least two of the above shots show that a lightbar would face significant visibility challenges from the vehicle height and roof rack.

The install is clean, safe, organized, uses proper fasteners, connections, wire gauges, circuit protection, wire protection, routing, power management principles and top line products. Just because it doesn't meet your own personal preference or perceived standard doesn't make it a fail. I appreciate useful criticism, so if you have something to offer...

Low profile doesn't have to mean stealthy. BTW, it has graphics because that's their policy.

Also, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons I got the hell out of NY when I could.

bluestinger90 · Aug 10, 2013

C2Installs said:
I think the Feniex Cobra800 is highly overrated. Very disappointed with it given its performance through tint.

Did you notice any feniex amber units having different hues?

ISU_Cyclone · Aug 10, 2013

lafd55 said:
Definitely a FAIL install..... No lightbar. Height issues you say, I don't see that much more of a clearance issue by adding a liberty, justice, or legacy. He wanted a vehicle more low profile, then why does it have graphics, how is not having a lightbar anymore low profile?

Adding a lightbar doesn't make it any lower...

How many lightbars would he need to stack before YOU saw a clearance issue? As if you know how tight a fit this vehicle is in a garage...

fleetcomm · Aug 10, 2013

Great work. Hope to see you at PFE.

C2Installs · Aug 10, 2013

I'll be there. Hanging at SOS or Whelen during expo. Working the network like a mad man after. I have some major writing assignments to work on. I think this year will be big for innovation. You got my cell, text me when you're there.

Kevin K. · Aug 11, 2013

This is an extremely nice install! I'm curious about the selection of the Feniex lightstick. It doesn't appear to be fully integrated into CanTrol, with respect to pattern synchronization. Are you able to do that with the primary CanTrol system, or does it require the use of the remote module? In lieu of a TIR3 Dominator as an option, I wonder if doing a headliner bracket with six (or eight) ION modules would have worked better. You'd get that punch through the factory tint and have full integration into CanTrol. I understand cost is factor, but if the buyer is already this committed...

Well done, nonetheless!

Carlos SpicyWeiner · Aug 11, 2013

Nice looking install. I'm more curious as to why the 35 degree optics and not the 20 degree. None the less it looks good. Actually looks phenomenal given the parameters set by the client.

tvsjr · Aug 11, 2013

It's a very clean install for sure. I'm jealous of the CanTrol - I wish Whelen would sell the product to "normal people" rather than only to installers, perhaps with the caveat that if you haven't been through training, don't call tech support with questions about the programming. I would love to do a full CanTrol setup in my next truck, and since part of my real job includes computer programming and code disassembly, I bet I could figure the software out.

My few criticisms:

Is the right high-beam headlight out in the HLF in the day video (the 6 second clip)?

The compromise on the Fenix products sucks. The light stick's patterns aren't great and they don't punch the tint. I know why you did it, but it's a shame. It would be really cool if Whelen would build a bracket similar to the 6-ION bracket for the rear of the PI Utility - put 8 IONs exterior and use that for the TA via Cantrol.

At least based on the video, the side lighting is pretty limited. Something longer (I'm thinking Slimlighter TIR) would be nice. Or perhaps something around the roof rack, like you see NYPD doing.

I don't understand the spotlight... it looks goofy, unbalanced, and you have to remember to aim it all the time. I know it's a tradition thing in some places... just a matter of opinion. Personally, I would have configured it steady-burn red

I do agree that fire apparatus should have a lightbar, but there are good reasons for the chief's ride to be a little lower-profile. In Dallas, the chief and asst. chief vehicles are all low-pro lighting because they rarely run hot (asst chief assigned at the 3rd alarm level, chief assigned at either 4th or 5th) and because they go to so many meetings.

At the end of the day, it's a better install than 99% of the people on here can do. Ignore the haters

pdk9 · Aug 11, 2013

lafd55 said:
Definitely a FAIL install..... No lightbar. Height issues you say, I don't see that much more of a clearance issue by adding a liberty, justice, or legacy. He wanted a vehicle more low profile, then why does it have graphics, how is not having a lightbar anymore low profile?

I don't know how you can call this a definite fail just because the lack of a lightbar; there is MORE than sufficient warning coverage on ALL sides, and everything is tasteful. There are many of us that would prefer to have a lightbar on this vehicle, myself included, but in the end, the customer is the one driving this vehicle and paying for it, and C2 did a fantastic job.

I'm just curious...if this is a "fail," then what would it take for you to consider it adequate...the amount of perimeter lights on Mt Horeb's squad?

julietbravosierra · Aug 13, 2013

I guess I go against the grain when I say I'm not a fan of using a lightbar on ANY vehicle (except fire apparatus), marked or unmarked. As Pdk9 said, a lightbar would bring NOTHING to the table that this setup doesn't already.

It is very evident that MANY hours of planning and execution went into this install. Well done. I don't quite know how somebody could nay-say this vehicle.... :weird:

VolEms · Aug 15, 2013

Love the install. Nice job! Only thing different I would have done, no Fenix Chinese products. Great job on making a slicktop visible.

foxtrot5 · Aug 15, 2013

VolEms said:
Love the install. Nice job! Only thing different I would have done, no Fenix Chinese products. Great job on making a slicktop visible.

Last time I checked, Feniex is an American company based in Texas, not some shoddy LEDO importer

FireMedic129 · Aug 15, 2013

Great job. Very well planned and thought out. I totally understand the time it takes to come up with a warning package of this magnitude. The light placement and pattern selection is great.

C2Installs · Aug 15, 2013

Thanks for all the feedback and "Likes."

I wanted to answer a few of the questions...

1. Feniex - I have mixed feelings about Feniex. I'm not yet sure what to believe about their company and do not think they are being transparent (media's favorite word this year) about their business. A recent email that circulated has left me with some concerns. But if I just look at their products, I still have mixed feelings. While I think their Cannons are a nice product, I have limited experience with them. I do think they have some heat concerns. I wanted to try to keep some cost down on this install where needed, so I gave them another shot. I do think this will be my last go around, though. Simply better in my mind to stick with established brands that I have full confidence in, both business-wise and product-wise.

Anyway, I spec'd the Cobra for the rear because I thought it wasn't entirely necessary to have a light there and the customer was very set on it. So it was an area that I could see compromising on. Originally, a LINZ6 Dominator was "spec'd." I felt the LINZ6 unit would not be as effective behind the tint as a TIR style optic. I could have tried a TIR3 Dominator, but I had recently put two Cobra units in admin slicktops and they were impressive (in blue, no tint in windows). I expected the same for this unit. Unfortunately, the tint just kills the light. Open the glass and the light is bright. I'm not sure another light would have worked that much better, but I am sure the Feniex is not as impressive behind tint as many here have claimed. Add that I needed to make brackets, the less than ideal mounting tabs they provide, the peculiar patterns, and the concerns about their business I have, and the juice is not worth the squeeze, IMO. Certainly other may feel different, but they also may be folks who are heavily invested in the products for personal use or resale. I am not.

I actually don't know if the optics are 35 or 20 degree for certain, but believe they are 35. I didn't know there was an option. Still not sure it should be the much different when I'm standing a foot away from the light in total darkness and can still stare into it without blinding myself. The Vertex units appear brighter and the IONs which are in the tinted side window glass are still very bright in comparison...in fact they do blank your vision out up close and still have a "halo" through the tint. Oddly, they are otherwise very similar to the Cobra lighthead in size and LED power, IIRC. Two IONs in the rear glass would have been at least as effective as the eight lights on the Cobra, IMO.

The stick is very low profile and I definitely like that. I think the Dominator series is too bulky and should be converted to ION-based lightheads in 6 and 3-LED variants. The light is set to a very fast fluttering pattern that works ok through the tint but is too fast and blurry without tint. It is not controlled by the CANTROL unit, it just turns on or off with slide switch. I did not set up the arrow patterns, either. In the video it looks like it flashes on/off but it doesn't and I'm not sure why the camera shows that. The ambers do not look to be different hues, but then again, it's hard to tell the ambers and red apart when flashing.

The front Titan light was simply the best bang for the buck on a white scene light that would fit in the location we wanted it. It's an ok product but not as impressive as I hoped. It certainly works ok and in conjunction with the PAR36 driving lights the front scene lighting is good. As I stated earlier, though, the lightheads are all noticeably different in output color. The Titan suffers from the same mounting issues as the Cobra stick. Also, since it's grille mounted, we'll know pretty quickly if it has water issues.

2. Spotlight

The Whelen duo spotlight insert was something the customer wanted. It really doesn't detract from the light's spot function, so the added capability is just that. Having had one and used it for a couple of years, I can say it helps greatly on a slicktop with regards to intersections; simply aim it where the traffic is and get noticed. The spotlight is needed given the diverse are the PFFD covers and the need to ID addresses and hazards like downed lines and trees.

3. Side lighting

The videos don't really convey the effectiveness of the side lighting. All of it is mid-level and the lights are more or less evenly-placed intervals. Side lighting is less of a concern given the way this truck will be used and how it will respond. Even so, It is way past adequate, IMO. Plus the front "intersection" warning is superb, with the placement mimicking the truck's size, outline, and expected direction of travel (forward). The red/white signal is balanced and very good from all front, front oblique, and side viewing positions.

4. VLEDs

Simply a great product. Probably the best option for that type of light. They will soon be available in an ION version.

5. MISC:

The Inner Edge and stick lights are not truly CANTROL'd. To do so, I would have had to bypass their internal flashers and wire the lightheads individually to the CANTROL outputs. Uhh, no thanks. Whelen now has (or soon will have) WeCan variants of Inner Edge and Dominator series that can interface fully with CANTROL. Plus, I'm not sure if the Feniex units could be powered as "slave" units with direct 12v.

The highbeams are both good to go. I checked.

Again, thanks to all for taking the time to look and/or comment.

CPDG23 · Aug 15, 2013

I think it looks sharp.

I highly doubt the guy/gal will have any issues with clearing traffic and that is what it boils down to.

Nick@Feniex · Aug 15, 2013

C2Install,

Looking in our ERP system the only account I was able to pull up of yours was one dated back in 2011. Looks like you were placed under a master account in Tenn. (I might be wrong) If not, that might of been the reason for your order delay. Our production time on light sticks is normally faster then other competitors. Ill have an account manager contact that master dealer to check the reason for your shipment delay. About the lights intensity, please select a slower pattern speed. You have it set at 6hz flash speed, aka the fastest flash pattern (note the camera cant even keep up with that flash rate). That kills like output buy roughly 15%. I advised our electrical team to pull that pattern out many times but people like it (just like you did). Just understand the consequence of a super fast pattern placed behind dark tint.

-Nick

Carlos SpicyWeiner · Aug 15, 2013

Feniex said:
C2Install,

Looking in our ERP system the only account I was able to pull up of yours was one dated back in 2011. Looks like you were placed under a master account in Tenn. (I might be wrong) If not, that might of been the reason for your order delay. Our production time on light sticks is normally faster then other competitors. Ill have an account manager contact that master dealer to check the reason for your shipment delay. About the lights intensity, please select a slower pattern speed. You have it set at 6hz flash speed, aka the fastest flash pattern (note the camera cant even keep up with that flash rate). That kills like output buy roughly 15%. I advised our electrical team to pull that pattern out many times but people like it (just like you did). Just understand the consequence of a super fast pattern placed behind dark tint.

-Nick

Good to know about the patterns. I've often wondered if i was just seeing things. Thanks for letting us all know.

He's had shipping issues before that I questioned the source on. I've been told by whelen dealers its not uncommon to go 6-8 weeks for a build on a bar. I've had to wait a month for a Soundoff Mini Pinnacle to come from sound off that I just got out in the mail yesterday. Thankfully I'm sure the customer is pretty understanding. Ultimately with lead times if it is something you can't get quick and you sell alot of... stock it.

acs680 · Aug 15, 2013

Feniex said:
C2Install,

Looking in our ERP system the only account I was able to pull up of yours was one dated back in 2011. Looks like you were placed under a master account in Tenn. (I might be wrong) If not, that might of been the reason for your order delay. Our production time on light sticks is normally faster then other competitors. Ill have an account manager contact that master dealer to check the reason for your shipment delay. About the lights intensity, please select a slower pattern speed. You have it set at 6hz flash speed, aka the fastest flash pattern (note the camera cant even keep up with that flash rate). That kills like output buy roughly 15%. I advised our electrical team to pull that pattern out many times but people like it (just like you did). Just understand the consequence of a super fast pattern placed behind dark tint.

-Nick

So wait... Super fast seizure inducing patterns don't get up to full intensity because they are TOO FAST?? ;-)

I've often wondered why some of these are even programmed into the lights to begin with if the manufacturer knows they reduce intensity. Slow and steady is the way to go...

mm2k5 · Aug 15, 2013

I would like to see a overhead myself, but I love this. There should be no issues with the careful placement of lighting around the rig. Looks good, very classy.

Carlos SpicyWeiner · Aug 15, 2013

acs680 said:
So wait... Super fast seizure inducing patterns don't get up to full intensity because they are TOO FAST?? ;-)

I've often wondered why some of these are even programmed into the lights to begin with if the manufacturer knows they reduce intensity. Slow and steady is the way to go...

because it is what is demanded of the customers.. you should see some of the silly patterns i've had picked out by cusotmers.

C2Installs · Aug 15, 2013

Feniex said:
C2Install,

Looking in our ERP system the only account I was able to pull up of yours was one dated back in 2011. Looks like you were placed under a master account in Tenn. (I might be wrong) If not, that might of been the reason for your order delay. Our production time on light sticks is normally faster then other competitors. Ill have an account manager contact that master dealer to check the reason for your shipment delay. About the lights intensity, please select a slower pattern speed. You have it set at 6hz flash speed, aka the fastest flash pattern (note the camera cant even keep up with that flash rate). That kills like output buy roughly 15%. I advised our electrical team to pull that pattern out many times but people like it (just like you did). Just understand the consequence of a super fast pattern placed behind dark tint.

-Nick

I have no idea why you have an account with my info in 2011. I never held a Feniex product until mid to late last year. Perhaps it was from the time around your startup? I was trying to contact your marketing person (female) about writing a piece for publication. She couldn't get the email to work and eventually stopped trying to follow through?

Regarding the flash pattern on the Cobra...please give me a little credit for taking some time to evaluate and demo the range of patterns during the install process. I cycled through at least three times before settling on that pattern. I selected it for it's constant "on" look to help offset the lack of brightness. I did not perceive any other pattern as being noticeably brighter. That pattern exists in several variants in your pattern sequence. The patterns are actually a repeating cycle of flash rates that only change the mapping sequence of the lightheads.

FWIW, I actually don't like that pattern and have never used it or one like it in another install. It just seemed to be a better choice here. Actually, if you look at the rest of the install, you can see that the light patterns I've selected are not skitzo.

I've tried the products and while they represent a seemingly good value for some applications, I'm not convinced they are something I can stand behind. I still have a doxen Cannons, six dual T6s, and three Cobra 600 sticks to install on three Ford PIUs for my department. I selected them as supplemntal lighting to evaluate the product line. Unfortunatley, I'm still waiting on the vehicles. I've already sold/installed two other Cobra sticks, five Python sticks, eight interior bars, four Cannons, and a couple of T6s. So I've given the line some consideration and more than a passing shot. It seems to me that the products are bright, but otherwise lacking in features. The exception being the Cannons, which suffer from needing a huge hole to install due to the driver unit. I realize other LED inserts have inline drivers, but they were all designed as inserts and later uses for surface mount applications. The Cannon was designed from the go for surface applications (comes packaged with bezel) and should have been designed with a detachable driver. After all, you can't route that thing everywhere the Cannon could conceivably be mounted. Option would be to cut the cord, and I'm not doing that on new lights.

I spent some time recently on the phone with one of your folks. It was in response to another post I had here. I tried to give recommendations, but overall I felt like I just got excuses back. He also told me that posting unflattering things here was not "helpful." Nice guy, but not sure he was really looking to fix things. Here's the thing, I'm just not going to be a Feniex fan. I've tried, really. I'll not post anything about your stuff that isn't based on experience. But if I post it, I stand by it. Warts and all.

JPolston · Aug 15, 2013

That's a LOT of lights, however, the install was done superbly and the lights a mounted in perfect places, spread apart to make a very good footprint, and the slow pattern looks great.

VERY nicely done.. Quite sharp.

foxtrot5 · Aug 16, 2013

acs680 said:
So wait... Super fast seizure inducing patterns don't get up to full intensity because they are TOO FAST?? ;-)

I've often wondered why some of these are even programmed into the lights to begin with if the manufacturer knows they reduce intensity. Slow and steady is the way to go...

Those patterns are there to appease the masses who think that split-fail and super fast is cool looking, if I had to venture a guess.

C2Installs said:
I spent some time recently on the phone with one of your folks. It was in response to another post I had here. I tried to give recommendations, but overall I felt like I just got excuses back. He also told me that posting unflattering things here was not "helpful." Nice guy, but not sure he was really looking to fix things. Here's the thing, I'm just not going to be a Feniex fan. I've tried, really. I'll not post anything about your stuff that isn't based on experience. But if I post it, I stand by it. Warts and all.

I did read the entire post but really only want to comment on this part of it.

I applaud you, you gave a brand a fair shot and in your view it's just not what you want/need. You really haven't said anything negative about the brand without providing evidence from your own experience with multiple products from their line. Thank you for this, we need more people like you around here. Especially someone who will "post it and stand by it, warts and all." :thumbsup:

acs680 · Aug 16, 2013

C2Installs said:
FWIW, I actually don't like that pattern and have never used it or one like it in another install. It just seemed to be a better choice here. Actually, if you look at the rest of the install, you can see that the light patterns I've selected are not skitzo.

You definitely had me wondering why it was so different than the rest of the patterns.

Kevin K. · Aug 22, 2013

Will this vehicle's equipment be updated to include all Whelen WC warning systems? I'd have a hard time justifying the additional expense of CanTrol (versus the CenCom) if I'm not going to actually fully integrate all warning systems into it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that the only advantage of the CanTrol in this particular application is the ability to coordinate the flash patterns of the perimeter modules and have a pattern for each progressive level. In my opinion, the exclusion of the Inner Edge and the Feniex lightstick negates the additional expense of CanTrol in this instance.

Disclaimer: I'm very impressed with the workmanship in this installation job (and do not mean to detract from such). I'm just curious about the benefits of CanTrol versus CenCom for this particular vehicle.

C2Installs · Aug 22, 2013

Kevin K. said:
Will this vehicle's equipment be updated to include all Whelen WC warning systems? I'd have a hard time justifying the additional expense of CanTrol (versus the CenCom) if I'm not going to actually fully integrate all warning systems into it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that the only advantage of the CanTrol in this particular application is the ability to coordinate the flash patterns of the perimeter modules and have a pattern for each progressive level. In my opinion, the exclusion of the Inner Edge and the Feniex lightstick negates the additional expense of CanTrol in this instance.

Disclaimer: I'm very impressed with the workmanship in this installation job (and do not mean to detract from such). I'm just curious about the benefits of CanTrol versus CenCom for this particular vehicle.

The customer wanted the benefits of the CANTrol and the prestige as well. It is more than synch. Also integrated park, headlights, brake lights, fog lights, reverse lights to create more functionality and smarter use of various lighting. It isn't as full tilt as it could have been. When it was spec'd, WC versions of the inner edge and dominator were not yet actually available...I checked. That being the case, the use if the two Feniex products offered no loss of functionality versus Whelen equivalents. The front Titan stick is fully CANTrol'd actually, and there is no matching Whelen product, WC or otherwise.

Quickstep80 · Aug 23, 2013

Feniex said:
About the lights intensity, please select a slower pattern speed. You have it set at 6hz flash speed, aka the fastest flash pattern (note the camera cant even keep up with that flash rate). That kills like output buy roughly 15%. I advised our electrical team to pull that pattern out many times but people like it (just like you did).

Why on earth do manufacturers even offer patterns, knowing they will definitely reduce warning power? I mean, customers can just select from a range that is offered. I might be wrong, but can't understand why there's the necessity to offer something that's suboptimal (same with those pinwheel-patterns, etc.).

Warning lights are designed to serve a purpose in the first place - and that's either to move traffic or warn of hazards. Style and appearance are surely something to be considered, but nevertheless second rate. So why is there even an option to forfeit on their paramount role just to the benefit of personal taste aspects?!

Carlos SpicyWeiner · Aug 23, 2013

Quickstep80 said:
Why on earth do manufacturers even offer patterns, knowing they will definitely reduce warning power? I mean, customers can just select from a range that is offered. I might be wrong, but can't understand why there's the necessity to offer something that's suboptimal (same with those pinwheel-patterns, etc.).

Warning lights are designed to serve a purpose in the first place - and that's either to move traffic or warn of hazards. Style and appearance are surely something to be considered, but nevertheless second rate. So why is there even an option to forfeit on their paramount role just to the benefit of personal taste aspects?!

we have people that buy stl, damega, and other chinese crap. It is made because thats what people want. I get request for stupid patterns to be set on installs all of the time. IF you don't provide it.. someone will.

firefighter7017 · Aug 26, 2013

I'm in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge all week. Hopefully I'll get a look a this thing while I'm up here.

Pigeon Forge TN Fire Chief's CANTrol'ed Expedition

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